Shadowman #16 Discussion

[BugsySig]

Another very solid issue, and a good wrap up to the arc. A few things wrapped up a little quickly and easily for my taste, specifically the Abettors giving Jack a chance and the bully forgiving Jack, but overall it was a vast improvement over the previous arc and stand alone issues.

We also had the return of Jaunty and a surprise return of Josiah. End Times is looking very interesting.

And RDLT kicked all sorts of as as usual.

Very satisfied with the new direction. This book is now solidly in the top half of VEI's offerings for me behind A&A, Harbinger and Unity and challenging XO for my affections.

[400yrs]

I almost bought this issue just for the cover, but then I realized it completely apes Travel Foreman's Animal Man 1 cover. In fact, I thought it was Foreman's art. Since it wasn't and I have Animal Man 1, no reason to buy a book for an aped cover.

[dornwolf]

It wasn't bad at all. Pushes us forward, thankfully deals with and moves past the random "wild aggression" Jack had been given and he gets Alyssa which hopefully sticks for a while. I am interested in how they explain Josiah not being in deadside anymore and not being dead.

[Keith]

This was an ok ending to the arc... not great, but ok. Felt it would've been better served spread out over two issues. Too many plot points helt either rushed or cut off, and the only reason I can think was to have enough space to jam the rest of the story in.

[bygranddesign]

There was some good and some not-so-good with this issue.

The good:
-- The art was fantastic. I like the way RDLT split Jack's face with Shadowman in certain panels.
-- Jack's inner monologue gave him a glimmer of a personality
-- Jack hooking up with Alyssa - this title needs a jolt of emotion and something to care about. Marius and Sandria's story brought some passion to this series in issue #10. Hopefully Jack and Alyssa can bring some of that same emotion.
-- Nice cliff hanger with Josiah still alive

The not-so-good
-- Plot points were rushed to be resolved - but didn't feel believable in their resolution
-- The way he dealt with Tremble seemed a bit too easy and anti-climactic. This is a monster that I assume has done terrible, terrible things .. I'd like to know exactly what would cause it to flee in FEAR. (or more info than what we got)

Overall
A very good issue and a pretty strong arc. I'm looking forward to End Times.

[hunter_peterson]

There was some good and some not-so-good with this issue.

The good:
-- The art was fantastic. I like the way RDLT split Jack's face with Shadowman in certain panels.
-- Jack's inner monologue gave him a glimmer of a personality
-- Jack hooking up with Alyssa - this title needs a jolt of emotion and something to care about. Marius and Sandria's story brought some passion to this series in issue #10. Hopefully Jack and Alyssa can bring some of that same emotion.
-- Nice cliff hanger with Josiah still alive

The not-so-good
-- Plot points were rushed to be resolved - but didn't feel believable in their resolution
-- The way he dealt with Tremble seemed a bit too easy and anti-climactic. This is a monster that I assume has done terrible, terrible things .. I'd like to know exactly what would cause it to flee in FEAR. (or more info than what we got)

Overall
A very good issue and a pretty strong arc. I'm looking forward to End Times.

I don't think Tremble WAS a monster that has done terrible things. He's a monster that got other people to do terrible things. Him being weak seems in character.

This was a really good issue, wrapped up a wee bit neatly. I like that Tremble is going to be recurring. Josiah was cool, too. The arc, though, was brilliant. I'm super excited for End Times!

[pixierosa]

There was some good and some not-so-good with this issue.

The good:
-- The art was fantastic. I like the way RDLT split Jack's face with Shadowman in certain panels.
-- Jack's inner monologue gave him a glimmer of a personality
-- Jack hooking up with Alyssa - this title needs a jolt of emotion and something to care about. Marius and Sandria's story brought some passion to this series in issue #10. Hopefully Jack and Alyssa can bring some of that same emotion.
-- Nice cliff hanger with Josiah still alive

The not-so-good
-- Plot points were rushed to be resolved - but didn't feel believable in their resolution
-- The way he dealt with Tremble seemed a bit too easy and anti-climactic. This is a monster that I assume has done terrible, terrible things .. I'd like to know exactly what would cause it to flee in FEAR. (or more info than what we got)

Overall
A very good issue and a pretty strong arc. I'm looking forward to End Times.

De La Torre does an amazing job on the art. Perfect tone.

bygranddesign sums it up nicely, except I think of Tremble as a coercer rather than a doer. I am curious as to his backstory of the little girl. Just have to assume he was responsible for her death and for once it wasn't intended. I would have liked to see this book expanded a bit more. Parts were too rushed and wrapped with a bow, but overall, nice job. Like you, looking forward to End Times.

[agent_graves]

This was ok, but to be honest, nothing Milligan has done thus far, has measured up to the greatness, of #0 & #10...

Shadowman, is one of my favorite Valiant characters, but I'm just not feeling it, dialogue or art...

Hopefully, "End Times", will change my perspective...

[lorddunlow]

I really am loving Shadowman now. I liked it a lot before, but the current stuff is getting even more interesting. I think the art is really helping the story a bunch. Looking at the digital exclusive stuff (the uncolored art pages) makes me wish they just used RDLT's art raw and uncolored. I'm not knocking the colorist as the color is done very well, but I think this book would actually work better in B&W - like film noir.

As for those that mentioned the book seemed rushed or too short, I agree. It actually reads like Milligan had two issues scripted that for some reason got cut to one. I'm assuming that is what happened (I really think VEI has something really cool up their sleeves for which they have altered all of the books' schedules - EW hiatus, minis for Harbinger and Bloodshot, Shadowman End Times, etc.) and when you look at it that way (which, granted, may not be the reality of the situation) I think Milligan did a great job wrapping this arc up.

Theory about the girl that Tremble was afraid to face: the pain in remembering - perhaps he's referring to Sandria? Maybe Tremble was involved in some of the magic the Darques' father was practicing on them.

[SJS4]

Another very solid issue, and a good wrap up to the arc. A few things wrapped up a little quickly and easily for my taste, specifically the Abettors giving Jack a chance and the bully forgiving Jack, but overall it was a vast improvement over the previous arc and stand alone issues.

Pretty much sums up my opinion perfectly. I love RDLT's art. I think he is becoming my favorite artist at VEI. Gonna miss him on this book, but look forward to seeing him on Dr Mirage.

[Captain Craig]

So I see I'm not alone in thinking things came to a resolution rather quickly on several fronts.
The Abettors go from "let's replace Jack" for 2 issues to suddenly "we don't have time to train another, ah, what the Hell Jack you're our man---go getta 'em". The acceptance of the wheelchair guy, whose name escapes me, after Jack put on his boogeyman suit for a competition of "really, whose worse off". Then there is the Alyssa/Jack moment. Of the three this one should feel the most organic since it has roots as far back as issue 3/4/5, somewhere in there, but then it dropped off and once it seemed a necessary plot point love just found a way.

Jaunty being back helps lend another sliver of a thread to continuity before the creative team change.

Josiah....wait, whaaaaat?? Let's see where End Times takes us(still think the mini-series gimmick is a bit much but whatever).

[Aomalle27]

Finally got around to reading this, and while it wasn't perfect, with a 3 issue arc, I guess things have to kinda be thrown together. The resolutions of the Bully and Jack, and the elimination of the Tremble threat, were definitely quick. Plus it seemed Mambo was kinda just thrown in there, for the sake of throwing her in there. I'm thinking she's gonna play a roll in the Dr. Mirage monthly upcoming. All in all, I'm pleased with the new direction of Shadowman, however not thrilled with the art, I like the dark styling, but prefer the issue 10 styling. This feels more graphic novel versus comic book.

[jmatt]

Wow, what a turnaround for this title. Great issue, great art, great story.

What with decompression running rampant through the comic industry, I won't complain if things could have been improved with an extra panel or two to flesh it out.

I had my doubts about the survivability of this title at one point, no more. Well done.

[Keith]

The ending with Josiah... I was left wondering if he was in the living world or in the Deadside? Couldn't quite tell.

[p-s manowar]

Good issue but was rushed too much. The abettors just giving in like was awful and should have tied up the tremble issue on a later arc, plant seeds/ subplots. Maybe this is all due to end times?

[Brother Darque]

so whats the state of Shadowman after End Times?

[Baramos]

Felt rushed. As others have mentioned, the resolution of the fight with the abettors and a resolution of his past with the bully should have been this issue's story in full, the confrontation with Tremble the entirety of the next issue. Instead it felt tacked on. But the art was great, as it has been in this new arc.

I'm glad they answered my question as to why the white guy abettor couldn't use the whip, since it actively hurts her to use it--she doesn't want a white person to use it on a black person ever again.

[Dallow Spicer1]

I started reading issue 16 then realised I hadn't fully understood what had happened in issue 15 so I went back and read that issue along with issue 16 and was very impressed!! It's becoming clearer the direction Milligan is taking the book and Jack's character is significantly more interesting.

This underlines what a shame it is that Shadowman didn't start off with Milligan and RDLT and this book as Valiant's 'Vertigo book'. Anyone picking up the book with Milligan's run would find an almost unrecognisable feel to the book (story and especially art) if they track down back issues.

I agree with previous comments that some plot points ended a little too quickly and I also agree that this was an editorial decision to make way for End Times.

4/5: big improvement and bodes well for the future

[leonmallett]

An okay end to an okay arc for me.

The problem with the addition of the dark episodes now seems in hindsight simply a set-up to make Jack have to 'overcome something' ,a and really in that context feels forced - being added in and seemingly resolved in the single arc. Milligan may have a longer game in mind with that thread, but it felt clumsy when introduced, and even more clumsy in seeing its resolution.

Glad to see Jaunty again; I hope that he isn't adapted to fit some new model of characterisation.

I am glad Jack is still Shadowman, though of course the mini series could change that, which i think would be a shame *if it comes to pass*.

A pretty solid issue, but with shortcomings as others have alluded to: the seemingly too-quick resolution of the Abettors agreeing to not take out Jack, Tremble being vanquished and Jack's retro-fitted past being resolved neatly after a token brief failure or two.

[leonmallett]

...As for those that mentioned the book seemed rushed or too short, I agree. It actually reads like Milligan had two issues scripted that for some reason got cut to one. I'm assuming that is what happened (I really think VEI has something really cool up their sleeves for which they have altered all of the books' schedules - EW hiatus, minis for Harbinger and Bloodshot, Shadowman End Times, etc.) and when you look at it that way (which, granted, may not be the reality of the situation) I think Milligan did a great job wrapping this arc up...

Given the largely established VEI model of 4 issue arcs (with some exceptions), I am not so sure. I wonder if it may have been direction changes (the added plan for End Times) and Milligan getting to grips with trying to introduce a lot of new elements.

That said, it is really like 4 3/4 issues with 13X so that refutes my statement above!

[bamaphilosopher]

I agree with others that the crippled man forgiving him, and the Abettors suddenly embracing him, were rushed and seemed forced. I got to where I was speed reading the issue toward the end with the Tremble stuff, which means I wasn't really enjoying it that much. I personally thought this was the weakest of the issues Milligan has written.

I don't know, I'm just not excited about the Shadowman title right now. I agree with others that Shadowman 0 and 10 were top-notch. Milligan's other issues showed some promise, but this one just didn't deliver for me. It's like the conflict between Jack and the Abettors is just over, lickety split.

And the love scene didn't really do it for me, either. I mean, I'm glad Jack's in a relationship, but that seemed maybe rushed too.

Maybe End Times will turn things around for me. But I'm not all that excited about it. I'm much more pumped for Armor Hunters.