The comic industry overall

[Elveen]

The sales discussion thread is one of the reasons I'm interested in this topic.
I don't know much about the retail side of the industry but from
My perspective, the Comic industry is booming.
It seems that just about show I've done has exceeded expectations in regards to
Attendance.
I can also tell you that many of the comic shows are selling out of
Dealer and artist alley space earlier than the previous year.
I meet many new and YOUNG peeps interested in comics.

Maybe it's a west coast thing, but he industry at cons seems
To be blowing up?

Anyone see anything similar?

[ShadowTuga]

TWD effect, maybe?

What I notice is that these are some good times to be a reader. Great stuff has come out in the last 2 years.

[Elveen]

TWD effect, maybe?

What I notice is that these are some good times to be a reader. Great stuff has come out in the last 2 years.

I think more the Marvel movies, but TWD TV show for sure is huge.

[400yrs]

Putting out some respectable, grown up movies probably helps as well.

[mkb28]

The grown-up movies certainly help, but I wonder if TV shows like "The Big Bang Theory" and "Comic Book Men" show geeks in a new light. The Marvel and Dark Knight movies have had a big impact too.

Planet ComiCon in Kansas City was jam packed this year and they added a third day.

Good thread topic, Elveen.

Michael
Mkb28

[Elveen]

I think all the media is helping, big time.

If I were working at Marvel or DC, I would be spending tons of cash
Trying to find a way to get my comic books into the hands if these new
Fans. Not sure exactly how, but heck, maybe free books at comic shows.

The comic sales overall might be down, but I think the interest is way up.
But I'm only looking at it from a perspective of a dealer at shows and the small
Sample size of my high school students.

Another idea I had was for comic companies to put out sampler tpbs like Crossgen did
With "Forge" and the other book. For marvel and DC, but heck any company, but 5-6 different titles
In one sampler trade and sell them cheap. The interests is there. These companies just need to turn
Interest into consumers.

[xodacia81]

It's interesting. You ask different people this question and can always tell the people who have the national picture in mind. Those are the ones who don't whine about how the sky is falling. Otherwise, you are apt to encounter people who, because their small and mismanaged shop isn't doing well in a poor location in the midst of a bad local economy, believe themselves indicative of the industry as a whole.

That said, nothing will ever compar to what comics were like in terms of sale, between 1990-93. That's a period of so much bloat that to match it again would be bad. I think the industry is more diverse than ever and that is positive, because options create excitement and that leads to new readers and that is the only way it all survives.

[Elveen]

I agree with you here. But.....

If I worked for Marvel or DC, I don't know if you could ever get the sales you had
Back in the early 90s, but I think the comic characters might be more
Popular now then back then. It would just take someone very creative to
Turn the movie and TV and video game fans in to comic buying fans.

[Cyberstrike]

I wish that there were more LCS in my town.

[Jace]

While I agree that so called 'nerd culture' is booming with movies, video games and tv shows. I am not sure if I would ay the industry as a whole is 'booming'. I WOULD say that the convention scene is BOOMING or THRIVING might be a better word for it. I think a lot of the people going to these cons are there to see what the buzz is all about. They go to sort of look around and gawk, they buy some merchandise, toys, t-shirts that kind of thing. Not enough of them are buying the comics though. I think a lot of them feel overwhelmed and are not sure where to start. I think people still look down on the actual comics a little and don;t see it for the art form it is. It is ok to go to the movies and see it there because EVERYONE does that. If you look at the number of tickets sold for Captain America 2 or the latest Walking Dead episode, those numbers are HUGE, but it is a very small percentage of those people who are reading the books. I totally agree with you Elveen that the companies need to find a way to get reach new readers. They have found a way to get people interested now they just need that little push that will turn them into readers and not just casual fans. Whether that is putting the books in more accessible places, Wal-Mart, Target, etc. or Crossgen like samplers or lowering the prices on individual books, I am not sure. Perhaps Amazon will do something interesting with Comixology and that will lead to new readers. I certainly don't think the industry is in trouble, creatively I think we are in a zenith. There have NEVER been so many great books of all genres put out by so diverse a line-up of companies. I just think there is so much room for growth among readership, so that all these great stories can continue to be told. One of my favorite books is Think Tank and while it is amazing and so different from anything else out in the marketplace, they are bringing it back in color this summer after a very short hiatus to try and grow the readership above 5k. I hope it works because I'd hate to see it get canceled. So go pick it up, I can't support it alone (OK shameless plug over). One thing is for sure, comics in one form or another are an American art form that isn't going away any time soon, thank goodness. I've been collecting for about 35 years now and I am as passionate as ever about them and I am glad it has lead me to the friends I have made here. I include in that the VEI creators and people I have met who really care about their fans.

[Elveen]

I think one big issue is what Cyber said.....

It can be hard to get the product. Think how CRAZY that sounds.

Comic book movies have been BOOMING, and doing real well for what seems like a while.

Imagine if Marvel had printed a FCBD-esque book to coincide with the release of Cap 2. Every person (or kid, or Teen or whatever) was given one. Maybe it could have been a tie in story or something. and then on the back was a place where the local comic book store could have put it's stamp. Marvel pays half and the LCS pays half. Then you distribute them as the peeps walk out of the movie.......

WHY DID THIS NOT HAPPEN?????????????????????? WHY?

If I owned a comic shop I would have done this myself. Found cheap Cap books given out a bunch of them for free and included a flyer for my shop. I woul dhave hired some high school kids to hang out and pass out books as peeps leave the theatre. Even if you get a few new people to come by = sucess!

It almost seems maddening..... you have comic book chraacter that are as popular as the ever have been in like ever! But the books are also, now the hardest to find that they ever have been.

How does this make any sense?
The only answer seems to be that..... the big are making so much $$$$$$$ thst they don't need to grow this part of the business.

I can tell you something.... if I ever just go for and open a store...... I have like a million ideas on how to kill it!
This is the time, comic book properties are HOTTER now than they ever have been (or at least during my life time) and I really don't see that changing. Infact, I just see them getting bigger.

Comic book characters = The new American mythos.

[mateo107]

well, actually, with everything staying in print in trade form and with internet shopping and digital platforms, it's really never been easier to buy comics. 20 years ago, before the trade market took off, before internet shopping, and before digital, if Marvel had released the Winter Soldier then, people who missed the original books would have had to hunt for them, probably at multiple comic stores, paying a premium. now they could literally start reading it seconds after the movie is over if they were so inclined, which is why Marvel doesn't really have to invest too much into marketing the comics. if the movie leads to more comic sales, great, but while the comics serve to promote the movie, the purpose of the movie is not to promote the comics, sadly.

[Jace]

I think one big issue is what Cyber said.....

It can be hard to get the product. Think how CRAZY that sounds.

Comic book movies have been BOOMING, and doing real well for what seems like a while.

Imagine if Marvel had printed a FCBD-esque book to coincide with the release of Cap 2. Every person (or kid, or Teen or whatever) was given one. Maybe it could have been a tie in story or something. and then on the back was a place where the local comic book store could have put it's stamp. Marvel pays half and the LCS pays half. Then you distribute them as the peeps walk out of the movie.......

WHY DID THIS NOT HAPPEN?????????????????????? WHY?

If I owned a comic shop I would have done this myself. Found cheap Cap books given out a bunch of them for free and included a flyer for my shop. I woul dhave hired some high school kids to hang out and pass out books as peeps leave the theatre. Even if you get a few new people to come by = sucess!

It almost seems maddening..... you have comic book chraacter that are as popular as the ever have been in like ever! But the books are also, now the hardest to find that they ever have been.

How does this make any sense?
The only answer seems to be that..... the big are making so much $$$$$$$ thst they don't need to grow this part of the business.

I can tell you something.... if I ever just go for and open a store...... I have like a million ideas on how to kill it!
This is the time, comic book properties are HOTTER now than they ever have been (or at least during my life time) and I really don't see that changing. Infact, I just see them getting bigger.

Comic book characters = The new American mythos.

Agree with you here Elveen. The big two are owned by these HUGE multi-billion dollar corporations now. They make tons of money and merchandising and movies, so they don't feel the need to grow this 'boutique' part of their company. They seem only interested in it as an IP farm. The good part of this is, even if the comic division of Disney or Warner Bros. are LOSING money, they will stay around to continue to develop characters and ideas for further development in movies, tv, etc. While it is easy for comic fans to get books these days, the issue
is that people who are not comic fans might not know just how accessible the comics are. They don't see them in their day to day lives like when comics used to be sold in convenience and groceries stores. They have to go out of their way or be specifically looking to go buy comics, rather than noticing them at a place they already frequent and deciding to try one or two out because they saw the latest movie or whatever. I think the burden falls on the stores themselves to market to potential customers. That being said I know if you ever opened a shop Elven it would be a great place with top notch customer service. Of course the biggest problem for you might be location since there 're a lot of good shops in So-Cal already. If you were here in Central Cali, you'd be the top shop in no time.

[Elveen]

I think one big issue is what Cyber said.....

It can be hard to get the product. Think how CRAZY that sounds.

Comic book movies have been BOOMING, and doing real well for what seems like a while.

Imagine if Marvel had printed a FCBD-esque book to coincide with the release of Cap 2. Every person (or kid, or Teen or whatever) was given one. Maybe it could have been a tie in story or something. and then on the back was a place where the local comic book store could have put it's stamp. Marvel pays half and the LCS pays half. Then you distribute them as the peeps walk out of the movie.......

WHY DID THIS NOT HAPPEN?????????????????????? WHY?

If I owned a comic shop I would have done this myself. Found cheap Cap books given out a bunch of them for free and included a flyer for my shop. I woul dhave hired some high school kids to hang out and pass out books as peeps leave the theatre. Even if you get a few new people to come by = sucess!

It almost seems maddening..... you have comic book chraacter that are as popular as the ever have been in like ever! But the books are also, now the hardest to find that they ever have been.

How does this make any sense?
The only answer seems to be that..... the big are making so much $$$$$$$ thst they don't need to grow this part of the business.

I can tell you something.... if I ever just go for and open a store...... I have like a million ideas on how to kill it!
This is the time, comic book properties are HOTTER now than they ever have been (or at least during my life time) and I really don't see that changing. Infact, I just see them getting bigger.

Comic book characters = The new American mythos.

Agree with you here Elveen. The big two are owned by these HUGE multi-billion dollar corporations now. They make tons of money and merchandising and movies, so they don't feel the need to grow this 'boutique' part of their company. They seem only interested in it as an IP farm. The good part of this is, even if the comic division of Disney or Warner Bros. are LOSING money, they will stay around to continue to develop characters and ideas for further development in movies, tv, etc. While it is easy for comic fans to get books these days, the issue
is that people who are not comic fans might not know just how accessible the comics are. They don't see them in their day to day lives like when comics used to be sold in convenience and groceries stores. They have to go out of their way or be specifically looking to go buy comics, rather than noticing them at a place they already frequent and deciding to try one or two out because they saw the latest movie or whatever. I think the burden falls on the stores themselves to market to potential customers. That being said I know if you ever opened a shop Elven it would be a great place with top notch customer service. Of course the biggest problem for you might be location since there 're a lot of good shops in So-Cal already. If you were here in Central Cali, you'd be the top shop in no time.

Thanks for the compliment.

But as for lots of shops in So Cal....... ture, but very few I would consider "great", most are in the good-ish to poor category. Also..... I think So Cal is the best place to start a new shop....

I'd be lyin if I said I have not been thinking about it...... more than just a bit.

[mkb28]

I think one big issue is what Cyber said.....

It can be hard to get the product. Think how CRAZY that sounds.

Comic book movies have been BOOMING, and doing real well for what seems like a while.

Imagine if Marvel had printed a FCBD-esque book to coincide with the release of Cap 2. Every person (or kid, or Teen or whatever) was given one. Maybe it could have been a tie in story or something. and then on the back was a place where the local comic book store could have put it's stamp. Marvel pays half and the LCS pays half. Then you distribute them as the peeps walk out of the movie.......

WHY DID THIS NOT HAPPEN?????????????????????? WHY?

If I owned a comic shop I would have done this myself. Found cheap Cap books given out a bunch of them for free and included a flyer for my shop. I woul dhave hired some high school kids to hang out and pass out books as peeps leave the theatre. Even if you get a few new people to come by = sucess!

It almost seems maddening..... you have comic book chraacter that are as popular as the ever have been in like ever! But the books are also, now the hardest to find that they ever have been.

How does this make any sense?
The only answer seems to be that..... the big are making so much $$$$$$$ thst they don't need to grow this part of the business.

I can tell you something.... if I ever just go for and open a store...... I have like a million ideas on how to kill it!
This is the time, comic book properties are HOTTER now than they ever have been (or at least during my life time) and I really don't see that changing. Infact, I just see them getting bigger.

Comic book characters = The new American mythos.

Agree with you here Elveen. The big two are owned by these HUGE multi-billion dollar corporations now. They make tons of money and merchandising and movies, so they don't feel the need to grow this 'boutique' part of their company. They seem only interested in it as an IP farm. The good part of this is, even if the comic division of Disney or Warner Bros. are LOSING money, they will stay around to continue to develop characters and ideas for further development in movies, tv, etc. While it is easy for comic fans to get books these days, the issue
is that people who are not comic fans might not know just how accessible the comics are. They don't see them in their day to day lives like when comics used to be sold in convenience and groceries stores. They have to go out of their way or be specifically looking to go buy comics, rather than noticing them at a place they already frequent and deciding to try one or two out because they saw the latest movie or whatever. I think the burden falls on the stores themselves to market to potential customers. That being said I know if you ever opened a shop Elven it would be a great place with top notch customer service. Of course the biggest problem for you might be location since there 're a lot of good shops in So-Cal already. If you were here in Central Cali, you'd be the top shop in no time.

Thanks for the compliment.

But as for lots of shops in So Cal....... ture, but very few I would consider "great", most are in the good-ish to poor category. Also..... I think So Cal is the best place to start a new shop....

I'd be lyin if I said I have not been thinking about it...... more than just a bit.

And give up those great public employee benefits?! Do it Elveen, I did. I left police work to become a financial planner and here we are 15 years later.

Michael
Mkb28

[Sven the Returned]

I think one big issue is what Cyber said.....

It can be hard to get the product. Think how CRAZY that sounds.

Comic book movies have been BOOMING, and doing real well for what seems like a while.

Imagine if Marvel had printed a FCBD-esque book to coincide with the release of Cap 2. Every person (or kid, or Teen or whatever) was given one. Maybe it could have been a tie in story or something. and then on the back was a place where the local comic book store could have put it's stamp. Marvel pays half and the LCS pays half. Then you distribute them as the peeps walk out of the movie.......

WHY DID THIS NOT HAPPEN?????????????????????? WHY?

If I owned a comic shop I would have done this myself. Found cheap Cap books given out a bunch of them for free and included a flyer for my shop. I woul dhave hired some high school kids to hang out and pass out books as peeps leave the theatre. Even if you get a few new people to come by = sucess!

It almost seems maddening..... you have comic book chraacter that are as popular as the ever have been in like ever! But the books are also, now the hardest to find that they ever have been.

How does this make any sense?
The only answer seems to be that..... the big are making so much $$$$$$$ thst they don't need to grow this part of the business.

I can tell you something.... if I ever just go for and open a store...... I have like a million ideas on how to kill it!
This is the time, comic book properties are HOTTER now than they ever have been (or at least during my life time) and I really don't see that changing. Infact, I just see them getting bigger.

Comic book characters = The new American mythos.

Agree with you here Elveen. The big two are owned by these HUGE multi-billion dollar corporations now. They make tons of money and merchandising and movies, so they don't feel the need to grow this 'boutique' part of their company. They seem only interested in it as an IP farm. The good part of this is, even if the comic division of Disney or Warner Bros. are LOSING money, they will stay around to continue to develop characters and ideas for further development in movies, tv, etc. While it is easy for comic fans to get books these days, the issue
is that people who are not comic fans might not know just how accessible the comics are. They don't see them in their day to day lives like when comics used to be sold in convenience and groceries stores. They have to go out of their way or be specifically looking to go buy comics, rather than noticing them at a place they already frequent and deciding to try one or two out because they saw the latest movie or whatever. I think the burden falls on the stores themselves to market to potential customers. That being said I know if you ever opened a shop Elven it would be a great place with top notch customer service. Of course the biggest problem for you might be location since there 're a lot of good shops in So-Cal already. If you were here in Central Cali, you'd be the top shop in no time.

Let the studios use Marvel and DC as IP farms and let's see some indie growth. I would be happy if capes were 20% of the market in terms of issues bought.

[xodacia81]

I agree with you here. But.....

If I worked for Marvel or DC, I don't know if you could ever get the sales you had
Back in the early 90s, but I think the comic characters might be more
Popular now then back then. It would just take someone very creative to
Turn the movie and TV and video game fans in to comic buying fans.

Exactly.

[kjjohanson]

I agree with you here. But.....

If I worked for Marvel or DC, I don't know if you could ever get the sales you had
Back in the early 90s, but I think the comic characters might be more
Popular now then back then. It would just take someone very creative to
Turn the movie and TV and video game fans in to comic buying fans.

Exactly.

Even if you eliminate the surge in the '90s from speculation, the big difference between now and then is the rise of the internet and high-quality video games competing for people's free time.

[Elveen]

I agree with you here. But.....

If I worked for Marvel or DC, I don't know if you could ever get the sales you had
Back in the early 90s, but I think the comic characters might be more
Popular now then back then. It would just take someone very creative to
Turn the movie and TV and video game fans in to comic buying fans.

Exactly.

Even if you eliminate the surge in the '90s from speculation, the big difference between now and then is the rise of the internet and high-quality video games competing for people's free time.

Yes. So, I'd use those 2 to promote and get buyers for my books.

What if you had free web comics that tied into the "normal" comics. Give half the story for free and the then make them buy the other half.

[Ramses818]

I think these are some very interesting ideas...please don't take my counter points as anything other than the other side.

Let me start by saying I love this thread. I too have been collecting for over 30 years, I have seen fads come and go as well as stores. So. Cal is great for the diversity of stores. Within 10 miles of me I have 11 stores. I will respond point by point with only my opinion, I hope no one will be bothered.

As for giving out free cap books at the movie, that is a wonderful idea. But what is the cost effect? Just using free comic book day as the example the cost to a dealer is $1. How many tickets are sold in one day? Just grabbing my phone there are 15 movie theaters within 15 miles of my home. I will use the closest which is AMC @.8 miles. That theater has 16 showings of that movie today. Because of how we buy tickets now a quick glance says the average theater has 320 seats. I picked 1 theater at random, not the 3d or IMAX theater. So if we take those numbers and the low low price of $1 that makes it $4800. For one theater in one day. If we extrapolate this out we are looking at millions of dollars.

What if we took only old Cap books and gave them away? It would be obvious then that you are giving them something that not only has nothing to do with the movie but more than likely will contradict the movie. Also just as likely they will get a part of the story, what do think are the odds are they will hunt down the rest?

A local store actually purchased time to advertise during the opening of Iron Man 3. The loss was enough that he will never do it again.

The reason that movies and T.V shows do so well? They are easy. They require no real effort or time. They are only a couple hours a year (for movies) and 4hours a month if you really like a show, for what 3 months or so? Doctor Who as a example will have almost a year between seasons. Many hit shows take long breaks. Comic book stores require well over the $15. Ticket price of a movie. Which also less for minors. You could not even pick up the Valiant universe alone, for get about Marvel or DC.

Business is tough. I shop at all my 11 stores every month, but to be honest there are not a lot of collectors spending 500-600 a month on new books. Conventions are doing well because all collectors and enthusiasts are going to one place for 1-3 days. In the case of Wonder Con it collectors not only for So Cal but nationwide. It gives a false sense of what is going on. Now I am not a gloom and doom person. This industry is learning to thrive. A lot of waste has been cut. There are no more bloated salaries, no penciler's are driving new Lamborghinis that they paid cash for like back in 93. By the same token in 2000 ultimate spider man 1 came out with a print run of 90,000, and now we have amazing spider man 1 coming with over 1/2 million.

Obviously I believe a lot more could be said on this subject especially in regards to how is Store's put together, customer service, and what type of inventory you keep. But I think this post has gone on long enough. Like I said don't give up hope if it's what you want to do, it can definitely be done but we have to be realistic about our goals and our hobby.

[Elveen]

That is a well written post.
I must have been misinformed about FCBD, I thought the cost was like .17-ish for each book not $1.

Regardless of the math, I think there are creative ways to get the product to the millions of new fans of these characters, and most if not all of these new fans have disposable cash to spend.

Also, as you know, I do tons of shows, Wondercon is for sure a national event..... but ask BTE how many people came to a one day, Sunday show in Stockton last year. I do a bunch of shows, big and small, and it seems that all shows are getting bigger numbers than expected. That's all I was saying.

But, like I said, well written post.

[lorddunlow]

That is a well written post.
I must have been misinformed about FCBD, I thought the cost was like .17-ish for each book not $1.

Last year's FCBD we all chipped in to get printed was $0.50 a book - not sure if that was more since it was a personalized edition, but definitely not $1.

[xodacia81]

My biggest point is that the boom in the 90s was a classic boom, not true growth. Real growth is seldom rapid and large, but slow and steady. There are waves. If we suddenly saw #'s like that-and I am not saying we will, or that I think we will-then I would be concerned. Any sudden growth like that would indicate a bubble and bubbles burst. Of course, there is the reasoning that all growth is a bubble and some merely last much longer than others.

[Elveen]

That is a well written post.
I must have been misinformed about FCBD, I thought the cost was like .17-ish for each book not $1.

Last year's FCBD we all chipped in to get printed was $0.50 a book - not sure if that was more since it was a personalized edition, but definitely not $1.

I'm pretty sure you can order the FCBD books for around .17-ish cents from some of the online distributors. But maybe I'm Mis-remembering. I do know $1 I way to high.
Also, for my example of the movie book, I could be like 12-14 pages to make it even less expensive.

[Jace]

That is a well written post.
I must have been misinformed about FCBD, I thought the cost was like .17-ish for each book not $1.

Last year's FCBD we all chipped in to get printed was $0.50 a book - not sure if that was more since it was a personalized edition, but definitely not $1.

I'm pretty sure you can order the FCBD books for around .17-ish cents from some of the online distributors. But maybe I'm Mis-remembering. I do know $1 I way to high.
Also, for my example of the movie book, I could be like 12-14 pages to make it even less expensive.

I don't think you would necessarily have to give the books out for free. Just having a booth near the exit, whether inside or out of the theater, with a selection of different types of comics would be a great idea IMO. Different companies and genres represented, recognizable titles and perhaps some older books for the nostalgia factor for the older folks. Walking Dead, Spider-man, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and obviously whatever hero was in the movie just screened. You could offer the books at cost or slightly above if you are trying to entice buyers and perhaps a coupon for your shop for further incentive to come and check your shop out.