Rai #5 Discussion

Sven the Returned · Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:36:54 pm

Why to they have to major..or minor? It's Japan so one would think they'd be minor occupants but I'm so over hearing about anything relating to race due to real world *SQUEE* that I'm over that as any type of topic.

Japan tends to be a closed society.

Brapbrap · Post by **Brapbrap** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:48:19 am

I thought the first arc of Rai was really *SQUEE* but this issue was fantastic, really started to feel like the world was coming together. Didn't like Kindt based on Unity 1-11 and Rai 1-4 but hes really changed my opinion with the comics he released this month

grendeljd · Post by **grendeljd** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:30:59 pm

Captain Craig wrote:^^^^^
Why to they have to major..or minor? It's Japan so one would think they'd be minor occupants but I'm so over hearing about anything relating to race due to real world *SQUEE* that I'm over that as any type of topic.

Really great read and as noted the art makes it even more worth it for the story!

Since so much relevant stuff has been mentioned already...here's a small thing.

Having a Pre-historic area of the Japan mega structure strikes me as odd?
I get having a period era New York or other cities but Pre-history...with dinosaurs walking around seems like a waste of resources and space. Might be a good place to have a Turok one day.....one day???

This New Japan strikes me as a kind of cultural preservation society that may have transcended being just one culture specifically. With that in mind, seeing other races of humans mixed in might not be so odd.

As far as the dinosaurs go... They may be genetically engineered, and kept for study/display/possible food source? I do agree it seems a little impractical, but it is kinda cool. The vastness of New Japan shown to date does not give me the impression that it is severely struggling to find space or manage tight resources.

Actually, the dinosaurs make me wonder if Father has access to The Faraway. Those dinosaurs may be from there, or are being sent there... That could be a crazy dangerous thing if Father has access to that place.

hawkeyeps · Post by **hawkeyeps** » Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:12:37 am

grendeljd wrote:
Captain Craig wrote:^^^^^
Why to they have to major..or minor? It's Japan so one would think they'd be minor occupants but I'm so over hearing about anything relating to race due to real world *SQUEE* that I'm over that as any type of topic.

Really great read and as noted the art makes it even more worth it for the story!

Since so much relevant stuff has been mentioned already...here's a small thing.

Having a Pre-historic area of the Japan mega structure strikes me as odd?
I get having a period era New York or other cities but Pre-history...with dinosaurs walking around seems like a waste of resources and space. Might be a good place to have a Turok one day.....one day???
This New Japan strikes me as a kind of cultural preservation society that may have transcended being just one culture specifically. With that in mind, seeing other races of humans mixed in might not be so odd.

As far as the dinosaurs go... They may be genetically engineered, and kept for study/display/possible food source? I do agree it seems a little impractical, but it is kinda cool. The vastness of New Japan shown to date does not give me the impression that it is severely struggling to find space or manage tight resources.

Actually, the dinosaurs make me wonder if Father has access to The Faraway. Those dinosaurs may be from there, or are being sent there... That could be a crazy dangerous thing if Father has access to that place.

Well he was working on that punch card Blodshot and Redacted is from that era

jkingman · Post by **jkingman** » Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:12:21 am

The art too...I can't believe how much art is packed into this book! Crain really amazed me, he has since he started, but looking back at old Ghost Rider or Spider-Man by Crain and this is miles beyond! Also, I have seen an ad in some Acclaim book for a Shadowman (I think) with art by Klayton Krain...that has to be Clayton Crain, right?

sonicdan · Post by **sonicdan** » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:51:32 pm

jkingman wrote:Also, I have seen an ad in some Acclaim book for a Shadowman (I think) with art by Klayton Krain...that has to be Clayton Crain, right?

Yep!

the1captain · Post by **the1captain** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:11:22 am

hawkeyeps wrote:I thought the plus material was brilliant, great background on Japan, Positronics and Radddies.

I thought it was really clever that in the Raddie manifesto it mentions that it is printed on paper and that is a precious thing, like it's subversive information not available to the digital world due to the fact it's printed (plus edition only).

I highly recommend the plus edition, kudos to the editors for making the extra material work so well and add so much to the greater story.

If Rai 5 gets 5/5 then Rai 5 plus gets 5.5/5, pretty sneaky eh?

I only get digital these days. So it can be frustrating when I hear how great the plus edtions are. Wish Valiant would offer a version digitally. Even if it cost slightly more.

Aomalle27 · Post by **Aomalle27** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:58:42 pm

i for one didn't like this plus edition. thinking ill forego them in the future. Skipped over the middle story cause the art deviated so much, and it reminded me of that horrible cartoony Bloodshot story in BS 25. Tried the Rai QR, just to see how it sounded, and man was that SQUEE. Too breathy, ( guy intakes air every other word) and not nearly mechanical enough for my tastes. Wonder if the XO QR cover voice is equally SQUEE, or if they invested some time in picking a good voice actor.

ilzuccone · Post by **ilzuccone** » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:00:14 pm

I thought it was highly suspect that momo was the only robot smart enough to scan vids to find the vampire robot. seems like an easy solution a society overrun with A.I. would have come up with a while ago. not the first time kindt has used an incredibly convenient solution to a problem. i believe he did the same with ninjak vs the armor hunters.. and somewhere else.. can't remember. (i could be wrong about the ninjak thing but i'm not going to go dig through my boxes to check)

also the vampire cyborg draining blood is cool but this is the second time multiple murders were mentioned pre rai's mother dying. was the last time the cyborg killed a thousand years ago? guess it could have been

despite not enjoying the book as much as most people here i am interested in learning more about father and finding out what happens to the characters.

omega_override · Post by **omega_override** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:17:24 am

Brother Darque wrote:I keep thinking of the opening theme to Blade Runner as I read Rai.

Yeah the nods to it, especially with the P.T.s, are more than apparent. But hey, if being one huge send-off to a particular movie can work for Eternal Warrior, then I don't see why it can't work for other Valiant titles so long as it doesn't make the book feel stale

Still though, I'd like to see it return to it's roots of being a sci-fi fantasy japanese period drama

BugsySig · Post by **BugsySig** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:34:09 am

ilzuccone wrote:I thought it was highly suspect that momo was the only robot smart enough to scan vids to find the vampire robot. seems like an easy solution a society overrun with A.I. would have come up with a while ago. not the first time kindt has used an incredibly convenient solution to a problem. i believe he did the same with ninjak vs the armor hunters.. and somewhere else.. can't remember. (i could be wrong about the ninjak thing but i'm not going to go dig through my boxes to check)

also the vampire cyborg draining blood is cool but this is the second time multiple murders were mentioned pre rai's mother dying. was the last time the cyborg killed a thousand years ago? guess it could have been

despite not enjoying the book as much as most people here i am interested in learning more about father and finding out what happens to the characters.

I agree Kindt can be a little deus ex machina some times. But I saw it as Father either not caring or allowing the Vampire to exist. Sorta like with Dr. Silk.

Also, I find it hard to believe there weren't any murders. We know for a fact the Rais have killed many people. This one was just the first to be labeled as such and publicized in 1000 years.

omega_override · Post by **omega_override** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:36:33 am

BugsySig wrote:Also, I find it hard to believe there weren't any murders. We know for a fact the Rais have killed many people. This one was just the first to be labeled as such and publicized in 1000 years.

Maybe perhaps they were seen as "justified" and therefor not worth tallying?

BugsySig · Post by **BugsySig** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:41:02 am

omega_override wrote:
BugsySig wrote:Also, I find it hard to believe there weren't any murders. We know for a fact the Rais have killed many people. This one was just the first to be labeled as such and publicized in 1000 years.
Maybe perhaps they were seen as "justified" and therefor not worth tallying?

Right. Rai killing Raddies wouldn't have counted as "murder"...at least not to Father or Rai.

ilzuccone · Post by **ilzuccone** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:41:01 pm

BugsySig wrote:
ilzuccone wrote:I thought it was highly suspect that momo was the only robot smart enough to scan vids to find the vampire robot. seems like an easy solution a society overrun with A.I. would have come up with a while ago. not the first time kindt has used an incredibly convenient solution to a problem. i believe he did the same with ninjak vs the armor hunters.. and somewhere else.. can't remember. (i could be wrong about the ninjak thing but i'm not going to go dig through my boxes to check)

also the vampire cyborg draining blood is cool but this is the second time multiple murders were mentioned pre rai's mother dying. was the last time the cyborg killed a thousand years ago? guess it could have been

despite not enjoying the book as much as most people here i am interested in learning more about father and finding out what happens to the characters.
I agree Kindt can be a little deus ex machina some times. But I saw it as Father either not caring or allowing the Vampire to exist. Sorta like with Dr. Silk.

Also, I find it hard to believe there weren't any murders. We know for a fact the Rais have killed many people. This one was just the first to be labeled as such and publicized in 1000 years.

your reasoning for the cyborg killer not being hunted is a good one. kindt should have used that instead of "i watched some videos."

as for the murders in the first issue it says no murder for 1000 years. right? could be wrong but i think that's the number. i can see rai's war not counting as murder… but this cyborg is killing people… but retired 1000 yrs ago. homeboy is HUNGRY!

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:26:51 pm

bygranddesign wrote:Another brilliant issue by Kindt/Crain - this has been an amazing run so far by this team and the mysteries, the intrigue, the story gets deeper and better and more ambitious. Loved it.

Some observations ... And questions ...

Lulu finally gets her positronic - and it's girl. Hopefully by the year 4001 (even with all the problems) we are at least passed the point of labeling but it's interesting that Father/Japan determined that her ideal life partner should be a girl. It's another cool and interesting twist by Kindt.

One thing that I wish Kindt made more clear is why the Raddies want to take down Father. I'm not sure it's been articulated well. I didn't re-read the first 4 before reading this - so I rely on the summary page to get me back up to date. And there just seems to be a lack of motivation and understanding. What is their ultimate goal? What are they trying to accomplish in the long term besides just taking down father who is literally the life blood of Japan? What's Rai's goal? Is there a plan on how society will function? Is the plan to go back to Earth? Who would be the new leader? Dr. Silk?

I feel like there needs to be some greater clarity about the motivations and end goals of these characters if we are to enjoy this partnership between Rai, Dr. Silk, and The Raddies.

Besides those lingering questions - excellent issue. Kindt is a true pro. He masterfully constructs an opening issue to an arc by brilliantly re-introducing characters along with a ton of new plot points to explore.

Crain's work is again beautiful and brilliant. The amount of detail and imagination that goes into each page and panel really transports you into this 4001 world.

I too feel the story could benefit from greater clarity, although the recap was especially useful this issue in particular for me.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:27:23 pm

BugsySig wrote:I'm torn on this book. The story has me intrigued for sure, but there are a lot of moving parts. I trust Kindt will pull everything together, but I have this fear that might take 50 issues to get there.

Hopefully sooner than that, but I agree and an elegant way to describe it in terms of moving parts.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:27:32 pm

hawkeyeps wrote:...I highly recommend the plus edition, kudos to the editors for making the extra material work so well and add so much to the greater story...

Easier said than done sometimes...

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:28:27 pm

Overall I enjoyed it. It felt very much like an extension of the first 4 issues, which gives the book a different feel than much of the VEI offer IMHO.

QUARTZ · Post by **QUARTZ** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:24:13 am

I enjoyed the issues art and am intrigued by the world of New Japan but find myself wondering how this stuff will tie together. I thought the vampire cyborg was pretty interesting, but there are a lot of questions already and not a lot of information tying it all together. I wish the story were a bit tighter but am willing to ride it out to see where it leads to.

Spylocke · Post by **Spylocke** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:43:21 pm

Wasn't there an Izak in the V1 Magnus series. I think he turned into a monster when in danger or something else hulk like.

bygranddesign · Post by **bygranddesign** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:53:45 pm

hawkeyeps wrote:
bygranddesign wrote:
hawkeyeps wrote:I thought the plus material was brilliant, great background on Japan, Positronics and Radddies.

I thought it was really clever that in the Raddie manifesto it mentions that it is printed on paper and that is a precious thing, like it's subversive information not available to the digital world due to the fact it's printed (plus edition only).

I highly recommend the plus edition, kudos to the editors for making the extra material work so well and add so much to the greater story.

If Rai 5 gets 5/5 then Rai 5 plus gets 5.5/5, pretty sneaky eh?
Cool ... Thanks for the info Hawkeye. I bought this issue digitally so I haven't gotten the plus edition yet.

One of the things that i don't have a clear understanding of - is what is the Raddies end goal? They destroy father - they most likely destroy all of Japan. Do they have a replacement? Do they want to go back to Earth? Maybe the manifesto will give me some better insight.
Father is watching...paper only BGD

Finally got to read the plus edition ... I also highly recommend it.

loved everything about it. I think it did help me to understand the amount of propaganda and brain washing that is going on. Lulu Lee's story was nice. The Raddies manifesto was pretty good - I'm still not completely sure how they plan to go about reaching their objectives - but I thought it was some nice insights.

bygranddesign · Post by **bygranddesign** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:13:32 am

ilzuccone wrote: as for the murders in the first issue it says no murder for 1000 years. right? could be wrong but i think that's the number. i can see rai's war not counting as murder… but this cyborg is killing people… but retired 1000 yrs ago. homeboy is HUNGRY!

This is a highly controlled society - propaganda is one of the main ways that Father asserts his control over the people. This is shown throughout the series so far but the plus edition in this issue illustrates that point pretty clearly.

It's also a dictatorship that is controlled through this idea that Father (and Rai) protects you.

Anything that doesn't fit into the narrative that New Japan is a safe and wonderful place (where monsters don't exist)... Is something that doesn't get reported on.

Raddies are probably too abundant to not acknowledge ... But most things that go wrong I suspect get covered up.

My guess is that there have been plenty of murders in the last 1000 years - some I'm sure would be dismissed as justified killings ... Other deaths/murders are covered up to not cause panic and dissension amongst the people.

bygranddesign · Post by **bygranddesign** » Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:23:15 am

I said this in previous discussions ... But I'm still convinced that Lulu Lee is a Geomancer.

I just think it would be an interesting twist that the person that is meant to help the Earth can't ... because she is up in Space disconnected from it. When she finally gets to Earth all that Geomancer power will finally come to her. I think as it is ... She is pretty intuitive in the way she can navigate New Japan and find secret passage ways.

Phoenix8008 · Post by **Phoenix8008** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:53:44 am

bygranddesign wrote:I said this in previous discussions ... But I'm still convinced that Lulu Lee is a Geomancer.

I just think it would be an interesting twist that the person that is meant to help the Earth can't ... because she is up in Space disconnected from it. When she finally gets to Earth all that Geomancer power will finally come to her. I think as it is ... She is pretty intuitive in the way she can navigate New Japan and find secret passage ways.

THAT is a VERY neat idea! I hope you're right about that as it would be so cool to see something like that happen.

As for the 'vampire' Izak and whether or not he's killed people lately, I would say this: For it to be labeled as a murder, you have to have a body. Otherwise it's just a missing persons case and in an area like New Japan, I'm sure a few people here and there just disappear with nobody worrying about it that much. Especially if he's selective about his prey and only takes solitary people with few connections to others.

ilzuccone · Post by **ilzuccone** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:29:41 pm

bygranddesign wrote:
ilzuccone wrote: as for the murders in the first issue it says no murder for 1000 years. right? could be wrong but i think that's the number. i can see rai's war not counting as murder… but this cyborg is killing people… but retired 1000 yrs ago. homeboy is HUNGRY!
This is a highly controlled society - propaganda is one of the main ways that Father asserts his control over the people. This is shown throughout the series so far but the plus edition in this issue illustrates that point pretty clearly.

It's also a dictatorship that is controlled through this idea that Father (and Rai) protects you.

Anything that doesn't fit into the narrative that New Japan is a safe and wonderful place (where monsters don't exist)... Is something that doesn't get reported on.

Raddies are probably too abundant to not acknowledge ... But most things that go wrong I suspect get covered up.

My guess is that there have been plenty of murders in the last 1000 years - some I'm sure would be dismissed as justified killings ... Other deaths/murders are covered up to not cause panic and dissension amongst the people.

that's a great idea and if true should have come from the comic. it's sloppy and it bothers me.

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