Consistency. Stability.

[Elveen]

Only thing in contention with the steamboat is the pirate ship.

I have a hard time calling either of those "rides".

Ummm. I thnk that verb is the very description of what one does while on either of the boats.

[blujay]

I'd like to see one of those Valiant Q&A Forum things they did back in 2013 with IGN. It certainly couldn't hurt, and besides I'd really like to know if we're going to see certain creators back on Valiant titles anytime soon

[apainter]

Since the topic of inconsistencies has come up, I thought I'd throw this out there, since I've wondered about it and this is as good a place to bring it up as any.

In the first story arc of Bloodshot and HARD Corps, Kozol tosses BS a set of dogtags related to his old identity, and promises to give him more info if he stays with PRS. After the mission, he hands BS a file containing "everything about the man you once were". BS looks at the file, and that's it. What's in it is never addressed. Kozol gave it to him as some kind of reward, but from BS's reaction, it wasn't anything. An issue or two later, and he's back to the "my past is a mystery" routine.

My attempt at a no-prize: the folder contained a copy of Bloodshot #0. It did not shed much light on BS's identity, but he liked the Chriscross art, particularly the awesome way he draws blood splatters.

Art

[jmatt]

In the first story arc of Bloodshot and HARD Corps, Kozol tosses BS a set of dogtags related to his old identity, and promises to give him more info if he stays with PRS. After the mission, he hands BS a file containing "everything about the man you once were". BS looks at the file, and that's it. What's in it is never addressed. Kozol gave it to him as some kind of reward, but from BS's reaction, it wasn't anything. An issue or two later, and he's back to the "my past is a mystery" routine.
Art

At the risk of beating a dead horse, that's a perfect example.

[dornwolf]

Since the topic of inconsistencies has come up, I thought I'd throw this out there, since I've wondered about it and this is as good a place to bring it up as any.

In the first story arc of Bloodshot and HARD Corps, Kozol tosses BS a set of dogtags related to his old identity, and promises to give him more info if he stays with PRS. After the mission, he hands BS a file containing "everything about the man you once were". BS looks at the file, and that's it. What's in it is never addressed. Kozol gave it to him as some kind of reward, but from BS's reaction, it wasn't anything. An issue or two later, and he's back to the "my past is a mystery" routine.

My attempt at a no-prize: the folder contained a copy of Bloodshot #0. It did not shed much light on BS's identity, but he liked the Chriscross art, particularly the awesome way he draws blood splatters.

Art

Wait a minute, that arc ended with Bloodshot being given a syringe full of something, that if used supposedly would of reset the nanites and given him his memories to boot. It was left up in the air if he had actually used it.


Also just realized. We're here complaining about wanting stronger continuity meanwhile a while back DC announced they were going for more style less continuity. Valiant first once again.

[apainter]

Wait a minute, that arc ended with Bloodshot being given a syringe full of something, that if used supposedly would of reset the nanites and given him his memories to boot. It was left up in the air if he had actually used it.

No, that was the arc after that. (The arc I was talking about was "The HARD Way"; the syringe was in "Get Some".) We didn't see him actually use the syringe, but I thought it was very clear he did. That was part of the reason he was able to break away.

I liked when Wolverine's past was something of a mystery, but after Claremont left, they ramped it up to ridiculous levels with all those memory implants and "unrevealing" that Sabretooth was his father (which, while never outright stated, fit the clues laid out at the time.) I hate to see Bloodshot follow that route.

Art

[hunter_peterson]

Since the topic of inconsistencies has come up, I thought I'd throw this out there, since I've wondered about it and this is as good a place to bring it up as any.

In the first story arc of Bloodshot and HARD Corps, Kozol tosses BS a set of dogtags related to his old identity, and promises to give him more info if he stays with PRS. After the mission, he hands BS a file containing "everything about the man you once were". BS looks at the file, and that's it. What's in it is never addressed. Kozol gave it to him as some kind of reward, but from BS's reaction, it wasn't anything. An issue or two later, and he's back to the "my past is a mystery" routine.

My attempt at a no-prize: the folder contained a copy of Bloodshot #0. It did not shed much light on BS's identity, but he liked the Chriscross art, particularly the awesome way he draws blood splatters.

Art

Wait a minute, that arc ended with Bloodshot being given a syringe full of something, that if used supposedly would of reset the nanites and given him his memories to boot. It was left up in the air if he had actually used it.


Also just realized. We're here complaining about wanting stronger continuity meanwhile a while back DC announced they were going for more style less continuity. Valiant first once again.

It's possible that the file was fake and Bloodshot already knew enough to explain that. Alternately, that what was contained in it was more a history of the program itself (akin to Bloodshot 0) that glossed over the bodies the nanites used, because they were unimportant. So there are legit reasons for why he wouldn't have gained much from the file and why it isn't that important. Hopefully it is addressed later on, though.

Also, the injection restoring his memories wouldn't restore his knowledge of who he was, because he was never anybody, IMHO. Bloodshot is his nanites, because they carry his soul and memories. His body is literally changeable. His whole quest to find out who he was is fruitless, because he's only ever been Bloodshot. Which is why him living as a normal human now, at least part-time, is a great opportunity for him to gain some of that human perspective on life.

He was always just as cloud of robots with a soul, never an actual human. At least to me. After all, Frankenstein's monster was a person too, but he was never the people used to create him.

[lorddunlow]

It's possible that the file was fake and Bloodshot already knew enough to explain that. Alternately, that what was contained in it was more a history of the program itself (akin to Bloodshot 0) that glossed over the bodies the nanites used, because they were unimportant. So there are legit reasons for why he wouldn't have gained much from the file and why it isn't that important. Hopefully it is addressed later on, though.

There is just too much of this going on in VEI right now. Too much "hopefully this will be explained".

As I said in my previous posts, if they eventually explain all of these loose threads, great. However, they are building an enormous amount of dead end mysteries. It's beginning to feel like a lot of the mysteries in Lost. At the time, I was really digging all these weird things that were unexplained - I couldn't wait for the reveal of many of them. Guess what? Show ended and only 25% of the mysteries were explained. They had clearly written themselves into a corner and hoped the audience forgot. I feel like this same thing is happening with VEI. Especially since the creators involved in some of the mysteries don't seem associated with VEI anymore.

He was always just as cloud of robots with a soul, never an actual human. At least to me. After all, Frankenstein's monster was a person too, but he was never the people used to create him.

This was my theory, too, but I have a feeling Lemire is going to throw that idea away to tell the story he wants.

In my opinion (as jmatt mentioned) VEI editorial is letting the individual authors have too much control and as such there is no cohesion with the characters in the universe.

[geocarr]

In my opinion (as jmatt mentioned) VEI editorial is letting the individual authors have too much control and as such there is no cohesion with the characters in the universe.

I wonder about this too and wonder if they have or will develop a character Bible as has been suggested. I want to spend my money on a share universe with tight continuity. This is why I no longer spend hardly any money on DC or Marvel who have pretty much made it clear that tight continuity is not a priority to them.

[blujay]

My attempt at a no-prize: the folder contained a copy of Bloodshot #0. It did not shed much light on BS's identity, but he liked the Chriscross art, particularly the awesome way he draws blood splatters.

Bloodshot: "Wait, I used to be black...but now I'm white?"

[cray_ws]

I gotta be honest with you, I expected Eternal Warrior to be so much different than it has been. I've never read the original series so I am completely without nostalgic expectations. But what expectations I did have was to read a book about an immortal, much like the Highlander TV series. Where the flashbacks have connection to his current predicament. But it's been nothing like that. It's been a series of alternate perspectives of Gilad. He doesn't speak or act like someone with worldly experience, his dialogue is far too direct and cave-man. Characterization has been for *SQUEE*, which is odd considering Valiant of the old was known for heavy characterizations. He's wears a armband and hooded cowl without any explanation, nor is it practical. Nobody seems to be frighten or intimidated by meeting him (He's got slashes across his face!). A scarface dude with axe running around saving the world from Alien invasion is ridiculous!

Visually he needs to move away from the original iteration. He pretty identifiable with the scarface, he doesn't need a hooded cowl and axe from the medieval times or arm band designed by some 80's fashionista. Give him a worldly and cultivated personality like his brother, but without the humor. Philosophically cynical, but a hopeless romantic. He should defer to do work himself, including fights. He's a tactician first and fighter second. Push comes to shove, he will fight with rage. He should be wealthy but not famous and own many lesser known historical residences across the globe. He should be a collector of historical culture, from art to anything museum worthy.

If there's one thing that Valiant needs to do across the board, improve their inking and coloring. Visually they just can't seem to compete with Marvel, DC, and some Image titles.

/rant

[lorddunlow]

I gotta be honest with you, I expected Eternal Warrior to be so much different than it has been. I've never read the original series so I am completely without nostalgic expectations. But what expectations I did have was to read a book about an immortal, much like the Highlander TV series. Where the flashbacks have connection to his current predicament. But it's been nothing like that. It's been a series of alternate perspectives of Gilad. He doesn't speak or act like someone with worldly experience, his dialogue is far too direct and cave-man. Characterization has been for *SQUEE*, which is odd considering Valiant of the old was known for heavy characterizations. He's wears a armband and hooded cowl without any explanation, nor is it practical. Nobody seems to be frighten or intimidated by meeting him (He's got slashes across his face!). A scarface dude with axe running around saving the world from Alien invasion is ridiculous!

Visually he needs to move away from the original iteration. He pretty identifiable with the scarface, he doesn't need a hooded cowl and axe from the medieval times or arm band designed by some 80's fashionista. Give him a worldly and cultivated personality like his brother, but without the humor. Philosophically cynical, but a hopeless romantic. He should defer to do work himself, including fights. He's a tactician first and fighter second. Push comes to shove, he will fight with rage. He should be wealthy but not famous and own many lesser known historical residences across the globe. He should be a collector of historical culture, from art to anything museum worthy.

If there's one thing that Valiant needs to do across the board, improve their inking and coloring. Visually they just can't seem to compete with Marvel, DC, and some Image titles.

/rant

I agree with most of this except the last part. I've really enjoyed the coloring VEI has done. As far as inking, I don't look at enough pencils to know what is due to inking and what is due to the underlying line art.

I will add this as far as talent goes - I'm sure she's exclusive to Marvel, but I'd love to see Sara Pichelli on a VEI book! maybe a Mary-Maria mini?

[JonesyAZ]

This is an interesting thread and I've enjoyed reading everyone's comments on either side of the fence.

Like many of you, I love Valiant both old and new. It's something different and the current VEI books are constantly getting more enjoyable for me in that I'm always looking forward to them more and more each month.

Have I been irritated by perceived inconsistencies between books? Absolutely. One item that really bugged me for awhile was how the Armor Hunters fiasco was never addressed in Harbinger/Imperium. Or maybe it had been and I just missed it.

The fact is, when I read books from other companies compared to Valiant, I notice the different in that Valiant and their creators are putting out stories that have passion, and I connect with that very much.

So I've decided to get out of my own way and not analyze the books (unless they become a topic for an OTV episode, of course ) and just READ and ENJOY the books when I have the luxury of being able to sit down and experience them.

[Brapbrap]

Since the topic of inconsistencies has come up, I thought I'd throw this out there, since I've wondered about it and this is as good a place to bring it up as any.

In the first story arc of Bloodshot and HARD Corps, Kozol tosses BS a set of dogtags related to his old identity, and promises to give him more info if he stays with PRS. After the mission, he hands BS a file containing "everything about the man you once were". BS looks at the file, and that's it. What's in it is never addressed. Kozol gave it to him as some kind of reward, but from BS's reaction, it wasn't anything. An issue or two later, and he's back to the "my past is a mystery" routine.

My attempt at a no-prize: the folder contained a copy of Bloodshot #0. It did not shed much light on BS's identity, but he liked the Chriscross art, particularly the awesome way he draws blood splatters.

Art

Wait a minute, that arc ended with Bloodshot being given a syringe full of something, that if used supposedly would of reset the nanites and given him his memories to boot. It was left up in the air if he had actually used it.


Also just realized. We're here complaining about wanting stronger continuity meanwhile a while back DC announced they were going for more style less continuity. Valiant first once again.

havent read that issue in a while but as i recall the injection just meant he didnt need to have those nanite baths anymore and therefore wasnt reliant on PRS, nothing to do with his memories

Have I been irritated by perceived inconsistencies between books? Absolutely. One item that really bugged me for awhile was how the Armor Hunters fiasco was never addressed in Harbinger/Imperium. Or maybe it had been and I just missed it.

armor hunters and harbinger omegas were concurrent, peter had *SQUEE* off in to space and harada couldnt go anywhere near america or mexico because everyone was ready to declare war on him

[Keith]

Have I been irritated by perceived inconsistencies between books? Absolutely. One item that really bugged me for awhile was how the Armor Hunters fiasco was never addressed in Harbinger/Imperium. Or maybe it had been and I just missed it.

armor hunters and harbinger omegas were concurrent, peter had *SQUEE* off in to space and harada couldnt go anywhere near america or mexico because everyone was ready to declare war on him

My theory is that all of Armor Hunters occurred during the events shown in the 1st issue of Harbinger Omegas. In that issue we see that Faith and Torque were going to be responding to the events in Mexico City, which lead into the AH: Harbingers mini.

[KXXX]

Lol. These aren't inconsistencies, they're stories we haven't told yet. You guys are going to have your minds blown by what's coming up. In fact, Book of Death answers one of the questions you posed here. You'll just have to wait I'm afraid.

I'll just believe it when I see it, Dino. For now, I am not touching anything with Kindt attached to it as all the problems cropped up when he came onboard. Sorry.

[KXXX]

Jmatt, don't feel self-conscious about this post. The fact that a good number of people are echoing your feelings means something. I'm with you.

I won't address anyone directly, but IF this company can wrap up these loose ends and bring us back to a place where things make sense, I'll be amazed.

The problem for me is that there are far too many loose ends being introduced, and far quicker than others are being addressed. The longer this goes on, the wider that gap gets. That's where I begin to worry about this line.

It doesn't help that a lot of these loose ends are very similar, contained to certain books and largely unimpressive. Mystery is one thing; going off like a half-baked Franz Kafka is quite another.

I don't read comics. I read Valiant. That's almost exclusive.

[lorddunlow]

Jmatt, don't feel self-conscious about this post. The fact that a good number of people are echoing your feelings means something. I'm with you.

I won't address anyone directly, but IF this company can wrap up these loose ends and bring us back to a place where things make sense, I'll be amazed.

The problem for me is that there are far too many loose ends being introduced, and far quicker than others are being addressed. The longer this goes on, the wider that gap gets. That's where I begin to worry about this line.

It doesn't help that a lot of these loose ends are very similar, contained to certain books and largely unimpressive. Mystery is one thing; going off like a half-baked Franz Kafka is quite another.

I don't read comics. I read Valiant. That's almost exclusive.

I have enjoyed the new books quite a bit. I still need to read Imperium, though. But right now, I'm expecting them to get to a point and then stall.

[jmatt]

So I've decided to get out of my own way and not analyze the books (unless they become a topic for an OTV episode, of course ) and just READ and ENJOY the books when I have the luxury of being able to sit down and experience them.

Well, I've said it before but I am a comic book simpleton of sorts. If I read it and like it, that's good enough. And I can't say I've read anything from VEI that I didn't like; some more than others, sure, but all still enjoyable.

And I am not bothered at all about events in one book not having a reference to, let alone an impact on, the others.

I guess my point is I would enjoy it all even more if some of the character inconsistencies were ironed out once and for all, and their archetype more solidified.

[Watchtower]

The problem for me is that there are far too many loose ends being introduced, and far quicker than others are being addressed. The longer this goes on, the wider that gap gets. That's where I begin to worry about this line.

The trope you just described is called Kudzu Plot, specifically the issue of loose ends growing more than they can be resolved. Normally this is an issue with a single writer, but with the heavy emphasis of a shared universe plotline it can still qualify.

I'll say, however, that Valiant is pretty light on the scale, given that most of the "loose ends" seem to come from shifts in character dynamics between writers. It also helps that we're still enjoying it as much as we are. This really becomes a big problem when it starts making the fanbase cynical.

[hunter_peterson]

Jmatt, don't feel self-conscious about this post. The fact that a good number of people are echoing your feelings means something. I'm with you.

I won't address anyone directly, but IF this company can wrap up these loose ends and bring us back to a place where things make sense, I'll be amazed.

The problem for me is that there are far too many loose ends being introduced, and far quicker than others are being addressed. The longer this goes on, the wider that gap gets. That's where I begin to worry about this line.

It doesn't help that a lot of these loose ends are very similar, contained to certain books and largely unimpressive. Mystery is one thing; going off like a half-baked Franz Kafka is quite another.

I don't read comics. I read Valiant. That's almost exclusive.

I have enjoyed the new books quite a bit. I still need to read Imperium, though. But right now, I'm expecting them to get to a point and then stall.

BUT IMPERIUM IS GLORIOUS HOW HAVE YOU NOT READ THAT

[lorddunlow]

Jmatt, don't feel self-conscious about this post. The fact that a good number of people are echoing your feelings means something. I'm with you.

I won't address anyone directly, but IF this company can wrap up these loose ends and bring us back to a place where things make sense, I'll be amazed.

The problem for me is that there are far too many loose ends being introduced, and far quicker than others are being addressed. The longer this goes on, the wider that gap gets. That's where I begin to worry about this line.

It doesn't help that a lot of these loose ends are very similar, contained to certain books and largely unimpressive. Mystery is one thing; going off like a half-baked Franz Kafka is quite another.

I don't read comics. I read Valiant. That's almost exclusive.

I have enjoyed the new books quite a bit. I still need to read Imperium, though. But right now, I'm expecting them to get to a point and then stall.

BUT IMPERIUM IS GLORIOUS HOW HAVE YOU NOT READ THAT

I was about 5 months behind on reading VEI... I now have only Imperium and Divinity.

[hunter_peterson]

Jmatt, don't feel self-conscious about this post. The fact that a good number of people are echoing your feelings means something. I'm with you.

I won't address anyone directly, but IF this company can wrap up these loose ends and bring us back to a place where things make sense, I'll be amazed.

The problem for me is that there are far too many loose ends being introduced, and far quicker than others are being addressed. The longer this goes on, the wider that gap gets. That's where I begin to worry about this line.

It doesn't help that a lot of these loose ends are very similar, contained to certain books and largely unimpressive. Mystery is one thing; going off like a half-baked Franz Kafka is quite another.

I don't read comics. I read Valiant. That's almost exclusive.

I have enjoyed the new books quite a bit. I still need to read Imperium, though. But right now, I'm expecting them to get to a point and then stall.

BUT IMPERIUM IS GLORIOUS HOW HAVE YOU NOT READ THAT

I was about 5 months behind on reading VEI... I now have only Imperium and Divinity.

oh

Well, that's reasonable. Imperium is awesome! I hope you love it!

[jmatt]

I was about 5 months behind on reading VEI... I now have only Imperium and Divinity.

Saving the best for last, are we?

[lorddunlow]

I was about 5 months behind on reading VEI... I now have only Imperium and Divinity.

Saving the best for last, are we?

I actually did.

(Except I haven't read any Q&W since Delinquents - not sure if I ever will. I hate those characters.)