Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer

[BugsySig]

In the past, I would have been angry with this whole idea. But folks, sometimes including myself, have accepted purchasing one or more of the flood of regular and incentive/hard-to-get variants out there in the market: and those variants and/or incentive books are usually the same internal content but with a new cover.

I am actually excited about this because it is an incentive book that rewards "the hunt" with a unique book. It's kind of like the pullbox variants of Rai 1 & 5 and Dr. Mirage 1; a variant that gives you exclusive content.

I think if this becomes a success, maybe other publishers with pay attention and start offering variant books that have exclusive content within instead of just a different cover. Who knows? As I've said previously in this thread, I think everyone's points are valid and this movement is already a success because we're talking about it

Which is great for you. That's what you like and what you do and I'm glad that you enjoy it.

I'm not interested in hunting down books or paying high prices for them. I already pay cover price for digital books that require no printing cost. I just want to read FVLs story about the Geomancers.

[JonesyAZ]

I'm not interested in hunting down books or paying high prices for them. I already pay cover price for digital books that require no printing cost. I just want to read FVLs story about the Geomancers.

And I completely agree with you as well, Bugsy. I am hoping that Valiant is reading everyone's feedback on this so that they're aware of the fact that this kind of promotion may not be wise in the future.

I am hoping that when this book is released, that the ratio will be of a low count (e.g. 1:10) and that it will not be as challenging obtaining copies. Heck, if I can get a second copy from my LCS cheaply, let me know if you'd be interested in it

[lorddunlow]

I'm not interested in hunting down books or paying high prices for them. I already pay cover price for digital books that require no printing cost. I just want to read FVLs story about the Geomancers.

And I completely agree with you as well, Bugsy. I am hoping that Valiant is reading everyone's feedback on this so that they're aware of the fact that this kind of promotion may not be wise in the future.

I am hoping that when this book is released, that the ratio will be of a low count (e.g. 1:10) and that it will not be as challenging obtaining copies. Heck, if I can get a second copy from my LCS cheaply, let me know if you'd be interested in it

But the thing is is that if we all "work hard" to make this promotion work like Ed suggests, then why wouldn't they do it again? It would be successful and they would see it as something to do again. I am very ambiguous about this succeeding - I want VEI to succeed and get more readers, but I don't want this promotion repeated.

[BugsySig]

I'm not interested in hunting down books or paying high prices for them. I already pay cover price for digital books that require no printing cost. I just want to read FVLs story about the Geomancers.

And I completely agree with you as well, Bugsy. I am hoping that Valiant is reading everyone's feedback on this so that they're aware of the fact that this kind of promotion may not be wise in the future.

I am hoping that when this book is released, that the ratio will be of a low count (e.g. 1:10) and that it will not be as challenging obtaining copies. Heck, if I can get a second copy from my LCS cheaply, let me know if you'd be interested in it

Thanks. Bottom line is if I want to get this, I can get it. But as Dunlow mentions above, I am a bit torn as to whether or not I want to help the program succeed.

[Paul Nolan]

first comment onBleeding Coolfrom someone who I presume who doesn't post here

So I guess I'm not getting the Geomancer book consider my LCS sells about 5-8 copies across three stores of Valiant titles. I have EVERY single Valiant book since the reboot and I hate that they're pulling *SQUEE* like this, expecting retailers to more likely than not take a loss for a book they won't reprint. How about an incentive for the FANS who have bought every *SQUEE* issue to date?

[kjjohanson]

I'm not interested in hunting down books or paying high prices for them. I already pay cover price for digital books that require no printing cost. I just want to read FVLs story about the Geomancers.

And I completely agree with you as well, Bugsy. I am hoping that Valiant is reading everyone's feedback on this so that they're aware of the fact that this kind of promotion may not be wise in the future.

I am hoping that when this book is released, that the ratio will be of a low count (e.g. 1:10) and that it will not be as challenging obtaining copies. Heck, if I can get a second copy from my LCS cheaply, let me know if you'd be interested in it

Ed mentioned earlier that the first issue will be a 1:25, and the rest 1:10. Considering how heavily discounted the books will be, it's quite possible that they'll end up in dollar boxes, as that will still provide a small profit for the retailer. I may just wait on picking up any of the issues.

[ilzuccone]

I wonder why they haven't started one of those "valiant needs your comments" campaigns on this subject. if it is a win win for the store seems like people need to be more educated on the subject.

[Tony_H]

Did I miss a detail, or is LotG going to have the heavy-stock cover that's being used for Divinity? Hope so.

FWIW, this series reminds me of high-end, low-print-run art magazines for hardcore collectors. My wife is a sculptor and from time to time she gets a variety of quarterly or annual periodicals that have hefty cover prices. The quality of visual image reproduction in them is usually fantastic, which helps justify their costs.

So I'll get the first issue and see what it's like (it'd better be friggin' good, because DC only charges $4 for each Sandman: Overture and those things are pop art gems). Considering the track record of the creative team involved, I'm optimistic.

[DirtbagSailor]

I just pre-ordered 3 copies of LotG as a "test" to see what happens.

At the same time, contacted a CGC 9.8 dealer who has an extensive network of LCS's (and can make things happen) and requested that he look into what can/can not be done to obtain these in high grade.

Also, I plan to support whatever Paradise does wrt this book.

...and now we wait...

[lorddunlow]

http://www.polygon.com/2015/4/16/842887 ... ten-months" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This reminded me of this promotion. It's definitely becoming a trend. A trend I do not like.

[erwinrafael]

I really would not have a problem with this if it is a gimmick that would involve collectors. Those guys buy the books as investments, so if VEI wants them to fork out large amounts of money, no problem with that. That's why I do not have problems with variants.

But this is a gimmick that affects non-collectors. I want to read FVL's story on the geomancers, but I am saddened that I can not afford it. I can not justify forking out substantial money just to read a 22-page story. I want to read it but I can not.

[BugsySig]

I really would not have a problem with this if it is a gimmick that would involve collectors. Those guys buy the books as investments, so if VEI wants them to fork out large amounts of money, no problem with that. That's why I do not have problems with variants.

But this is a gimmick that affects non-collectors. I want to read FVL's story on the geomancers, but I am saddened that I can not afford it. I can not justify forking out substantial money just to read a 22-page story. I want to read it but I can not.

Exactly. Which is why I don't understand not releasing it digitally. Fine, let it be a month or two later, but doing so will not effect collectibility of the book.

[kjjohanson]

http://www.polygon.com/2015/4/16/842887 ... ten-months

This reminded me of this promotion. It's definitely becoming a trend. A trend I do not like.

I was unaware that this sort of thing was happening with gaming, but it doesn't surprise me.

This…

What's frustrating, and exhausting, is that I have to sit down with a spreadsheet to work out what edition of the game gives me the most of what I want, what characters I missed out on by not pre-ordering, and what skins or other bonuses I'll get from buying from this retailer instead of that retailer, and then I have to figure out if I'm so lazy I want to pay money to make fatalities easier, or if I just want to watch videos of them.

…illustrates one of the problems with this sort of promotion. You're giving your potential customers a chore, essentially limiting a product to hardcore fans, when I would think you'd want to broaden your fan base. I think a lesson can be learned from what the creators of Magic the Gathering did:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2015/04/ ... s-saved-it" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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I really would not have a problem with this if it is a gimmick that would involve collectors. Those guys buy the books as investments, so if VEI wants them to fork out large amounts of money, no problem with that. That's why I do not have problems with variants.

But this is a gimmick that affects non-collectors. I want to read FVL's story on the geomancers, but I am saddened that I can not afford it. I can not justify forking out substantial money just to read a 22-page story. I want to read it but I can not.

Exactly. Which is why I don't understand not releasing it digitally. Fine, let it be a month or two later, but doing so will not effect collectibility of the book.

Despite Ed's comments on this being a 'win-win' for everyone to the contrary, I've yet to overcome the feeling that I'm somehow being penalized in this event simply because of the format that I choose to buy VEI products. If, as Ed claims, their intention is to expand their readership base, then their exclusion of the digital market from the start makes little sense.

I'm on the fence about trying to acquire this story. Let me see if I understand this correctly, I'm supposed to coerce my LCS owner into ordering more copies of BOD to qualify to get Legends, which I'm supposed to offer to pay above cover price for in the hopes of making the offer more enticing to the LCS. Then, if the LCS decides to return the unsold copies of BOD, they can then use the extra amount that I paid for Legends to help bump up the amount of their refund for the books.

So, in essence, the LCS has the opportunity to make money off of me twice through this deal.

That sounds very shaky to me. I'm not a collector. I could care less about variants. I see no point in paying above cover price for this book or series. It's aggravating that they are forcing me to choose to partake in this collector hunt or not if I want to read this story, which is all I really care about. Frankly, this is starting to leave me with a bad taste.

[grendeljd]

I just chewed through reading all 11 pages of this thread in one go... I might have a little indigestion, >Whew<!!

Man, between this & the movie announcement, I picked a hell of a week to be out of the country & out of touch with current events!

I think this promotion is certainly a rough one - I see the good & bad sides to it, but I support the idea overall. I'm going to order it, either through Ed or my LCS if they aren't stupid about it.

With the disambiguation of the retailer cost, returnability & the ratios involved, I see it as a pretty fair incentive that shouldn't be too expensive to order on average. Not sure that making an entire miniseries of unique story content only available in such limited quantities is a great idea, but again with the actual retailer cost/risk involved, anyone who frequents an LCS should be able to get one of these, ideally*.

*I would love to see retailers sell these at cover price or thereabouts, but that's not likely to happen.

While I am not one myself, I don't like seeing digital-only readers getting burned.

But what stands out to me the most about this, and the hardest aspect of it in big picture terms, is the thought that keeping all the details straight in the court of public opinion is potentially a losing battle that could result in more bad press than good. Look how crazy this thread alone has got - imagine what people out there reading online articles might be thinking?

All the Negative Nancy Trolls of the world looking for a reason to jump on an anti-Valiant bandwagon might do some damage with this one. I hope that doesn't happen!

[kjjohanson]

All the Negative Nancy Trolls of the world looking for a reason to jump on an anti-Valiant bandwagon might do some damage with this one. I hope that doesn't happen!

And if they do, it will be hard to argue against them.

[tiredofmyself]

I just registered this account to voice the burn felt by a digital reader.

I mean, what are you thinking, Valiant? You made all your comics DRM free on Comixology, which makes you the first Superhero company to do so. You did that awesome Humble Bundle that gave me a chance to have a taste of what you have to offer and jumped on the bandwagon before it's cool (movies-cool).

And now this? As far as I know even the Big Two hasn't done such thing ever since digital comics become a thing. What are they thinking?

The whole just doesn't feel like a honest promotion. It feels like intrigue and manipulation, in order to achieve promotion!

How many countries do you even sell physical copies to? How many more countries can only support and read your comics digitally instead?

I mean, I'm not unreasonable. Stunt is cool. But this stunt is too extreme! Not even a TPB collection?!

I guess we'll have to wait for a year or so for it to be collected in some Deluxe collection books. And usually it took another half a year for the books to be distributed to oversea markets.

Yeah. I'm not on the anti-wagon. I just couldn't fathom such decision to be anything but "brilliant" business idea based on ego stroking.

[sonicdan]

They discussed this promotion a bit at the C2E2 panel. It was mentioned how shops will sometimes be sold out by noon on Valiant titles or only order for pullbox customers and none
for the shelves. They feel that if more copies were ordered by the retailers, and available on the racks, the greater likelihood that readers will try them out. Once they give a Valiant book a try there is a high chance they will continue buying more Valiant books. They will be offering this book to retailers at a deeper discount and making them returnable in an effort to get more Valiant comics into the hands of readers. They encouraged fans to contact their shops and that readers may not find it as difficult as perceived to obtain The Legends of the Geomancer incentive comics. Additionally they said if anyone has trouble with this then to contact Valiant's sales team and they will work with the retailer to help out.
This helped alleviate some concerns I had. I just hope it doesn't necessarily become an industry trend.
Dan

[Bl00dsh0t]

I get most of the stuff Valiant publishes, however I am in the minority at my LCS. Rarely do they have shelf stock or if they do it's only 1 or 2 issues.

If I were to request this I'd be up for buying 25 issues at $6.50ea = I'm not paying $162.50 for this book, as much as I want to read it, my LCS would charge me for 25 issues to get the 1/25 retailer incentive.

Would be nice for Valiant to reward its loyal readers by making these more accessible rather than putting them out of reach for readers who buy Valiant in a market where they have a small footprint (Australia).

[grendeljd]

I get most of the stuff Valiant publishes, however I am in the minority at my LCS. Rarely do they have shelf stock or if they do it's only 1 or 2 issues.

If I were to request this I'd be up for buying 25 issues at $6.50ea = I'm not paying $162.50 for this book, as much as I want to read it, my LCS would charge me for 25 issues to get the 1/25 retailer incentive.

Would be nice for Valiant to reward its loyal readers by making these more accessible rather than putting them out of reach for readers who buy Valiant in a market where they have a small footprint (Australia).

If your LCS would force you to buy up all 25 returnable, deeply discounted copies at full price just to get this incentive, then they would be absolute dicks in my book!

[Ricomortis]

I get most of the stuff Valiant publishes, however I am in the minority at my LCS. Rarely do they have shelf stock or if they do it's only 1 or 2 issues.

If I were to request this I'd be up for buying 25 issues at $6.50ea = I'm not paying $162.50 for this book, as much as I want to read it, my LCS would charge me for 25 issues to get the 1/25 retailer incentive.

Would be nice for Valiant to reward its loyal readers by making these more accessible rather than putting them out of reach for readers who buy Valiant in a market where they have a small footprint (Australia).

This is what Dino and crew are trying to fix. He talked about how shelves will be sold out by noon on Wednesday release. Well, they want retailers to order more (not to be sold out by even 3 on Wednesday release, but have some on the shelf for three weeks) and give "new" readers a chance.

How can you reach new readers when there is nothing on the shelves?

Rico

[agent_graves]

I get most of the stuff Valiant publishes, however I am in the minority at my LCS. Rarely do they have shelf stock or if they do it's only 1 or 2 issues.

If I were to request this I'd be up for buying 25 issues at $6.50ea = I'm not paying $162.50 for this book, as much as I want to read it, my LCS would charge me for 25 issues to get the 1/25 retailer incentive.

Would be nice for Valiant to reward its loyal readers by making these more accessible rather than putting them out of reach for readers who buy Valiant in a market where they have a small footprint (Australia).

If your LCS would force you to buy up all 25 returnable, deeply discounted copies at full price just to get this incentive, then they would be absolute dicks in my book!

+1

10char

[tchalla8]

I get most of the stuff Valiant publishes, however I am in the minority at my LCS. Rarely do they have shelf stock or if they do it's only 1 or 2 issues.

If I were to request this I'd be up for buying 25 issues at $6.50ea = I'm not paying $162.50 for this book, as much as I want to read it, my LCS would charge me for 25 issues to get the 1/25 retailer incentive.

Would be nice for Valiant to reward its loyal readers by making these more accessible rather than putting them out of reach for readers who buy Valiant in a market where they have a small footprint (Australia).

This is what Dino and crew are trying to fix. He talked about how shelves will be sold out by noon on Wednesday release. Well, they want retailers to order more (not to be sold out by even 3 on Wednesday release, but have some on the shelf for three weeks) and give "new" readers a chance.

How can you reach new readers when there is nothing on the shelves?

Rico

I just don't think making it more difficult for your existing readership is the proper way to get new readers. The new readers won't care about this Geomancer book, so it's not for them. So they're using their existing customer base to help inflate LCS orders with this promotion. I can see how it might work, and maybe they'll gain more customers than they *SQUEE* off, but I don't think that's guaranteed.

Ed is adamant that this is a brilliant idea and that there's no downside for anyone. But he's also more deeply embedded in the loop than the majority of us, so I don't know how he can expect us to just roll with this no questions asked. I'm sure VEI considered the potential backlash, however. I guess it's going to be a wait and see approach.

[erwinrafael]

And they think this will do the trick? This will supposedly boost the physical presence of a book called Book of Death, featuring the deaths of established characters that the mythical new reader most likely do not even know of. Is Book of Death really the new reader-friendly book that deserves this controversial promotion?

I would support more if VEI would resort to seemingly gimmicky renumberings of series because, despite the protests of collectors, it works. Case in point, Bloodshot Reborn. But this Book of Death gimmick that shortchanges the VEI loyal reader (not collector, reader), I really am saddened that I have a VEI book that I want to READ but I can not gain access to.

I would like to know if there is a reader here, not somebody who buys books as investments, who would shell out the money for this book.

[Keith]

[quote="erwinrafaelI would like to know if there is a reader here, not somebody who buys books as investments, who would shell out the money for this book.[/quote]
Me. I don't buy these books for investments. I buy them because I love the Valiant Universe, and love the stories. I would gladly head to a local LCS and arrange a deal with them to get LotG, if I wasn't already anticipating that Ed will be throwing something together.

Just curious, how much do you think this is going to cost someone?