Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer

[Donovan]

...but I don't blame people for being so offended as to jump ship completely.

I'm sure lots of people will *say* that, but I imagine the number of people who fully follow through on that boast is a minority.

[agent_graves]

OK, so the art is definitely worth checking out, but it's the STORY that catches my attention here.

For those of you who AREN'T planning to get Legends of the Geomancer (or for those of you who are and don't mind spoilers):

The four issue Legends of the Geomancer series tells the story of the first Geomancer... so this story happens before any other Valiant universe stories. Rather than having a story from the "middle" of the Valiant universe timeline that is missing (if you don't read Legends of the Geomancer), you'll only be missing a story from "before the start" of the Valiant universe timeline. So, there won't be a hole in your reading, there will be a "prequel" that you just don't tack onto the front.

And it's a shame that it's only available for people who would like to pay 20 USD per issue.

How do you know that? You can see the future. I just bought a bloodshot #1 Aja variant right out of a back issue bin at a shop for $4. You don't know how much it will cost to buy this book.


I'll tell you what. When I get my copy if you are will to pay for shipping, I'll ship it out to you so you can read it then ship it back to me.
How does that sound?
You don't have to bring up the $20 cost any longer.
Infact I'll pay to ship it to you and you pay to ship it back to me.
That way you can read it for under "cover" and don't need to keep posting that you will not be able to read it

I'll pay for shipping to you, you read it pay to ship it back. Cool?
Just remind me and I send it out to you when I get my copy.

BOOM!!!!!!! End of discussion, mods can officially, close* this thread now.

*Say what, he turned down the offer. Never mind, continue on

[Ricomortis]

How Valiant Comics Lost a Dedicated Fan…
https://comicspectrumblog.wordpress.com ... ost-a-fan/



so he's reading (and I assume enjoying) a majority of Valiant titles, he can't get one mini-series at the price point he wants so he's out on all Valiant titles...

Seriously...

I don't blame him. I am beginning to understand that this has the potential to lose more long-time and loyal fans than it has to gain more new and not so loyal fans.

I will be getting Legends of the Geomancer one way or the other, but I don't blame people for being so offended as to jump ship completely.

Really? He's experimenting.... trying to find ways to get more books on the shelves in front of other readers. I go 100 miles to the nearest LCS and when I get there, there might be a couple of issues left. Most are sold out because they order so few. How do you reach new customers if they don't even know they exist?

I do like that one idea... Offer it later as a second printing... After the initial promotion is over so other fans can afford it and it doesn't effect it's rarity or purpose. (Lotg)

Jump ship because of not getting a book? I call *SQUEE*! Kinda like stock trading... Get rid of the weaker hands to make room for the stronger ones.

And before anyone reacts to what I say... I'll give you an example.

I am member number 420. I lurked from the time they were in the 300's. So there were a few big 'players' in the Cgc valiant game back then. (Dino, Greg, aug002, CKB, and a couple others) but not many.

Then here I come... Bammmmm! Working on 10 sets of pre-unity Cgc 9.8. Then you have had people like Zero, Squee, o316gb enter and seek out many, many slabs. Present day, you have WAY more doing the same thing. ( There are actually to many to remember all their names and we are just barely over 3000 members now) Just imagine what "could" happen when VEI releases these movies and pushes into China. Here is my thing with China... 5 times the people of the US. People are hungry for first world things. The comic market isn't saturated like the US. VEI has MANY characters that will carry over very well into their country.

I don't know about you folks... But I'm not jumping no *SQUEE* ship.

Rico

[jaden_sai]

I do like that one idea... Offer it later as a second printing... After the initial promotion is over so other fans can afford it and it doesn't effect it's rarity or purpose. (Lotg)
Rico

Valiant said it (Lotg) would not be included in the TPB or digitally, but I'm wondering if we might see it show up in the Hardcover deluxe release

[iggy101us]

ratio variant
QR cover variant
pullbox
line variant
8-bit variant
sketch cover variant
signature series variant
gold cover variant
$1 debut
design variant
gatefold cover variant
con variant
blank cover con flipbook
shop variant
plus edition
mask cover variant
chromium cover variant
mega-cover variant
Valiantcraft variant

new story incentive variant <---- This is it, this is what's going to expand the fanbase and reward collectors.

[paradise]

To Ed/Paradise or someone in the know: who carries the cost of returns? The publisher, Diamond or the retailer? (Obviously retailers carry some cost in terms of labour, and presumably Diamond too).

The cost is bared by VEI. But you guys have to understand something. There are certain practices that have been done for years and it's already pre-calculated how much (percentage) will actually be returned, approximately. Most of the time, when the books are returnable, the actual returns are under 3-4%. Now add the discount on top of it and it's much lower, because the retailer realizes that, at the cost involved, they are better off keeping and trying to sell these books.

I also do NOT buy the whole "cost to retailer to return books" garbage. Comic book retailers are constantly collecting and returning books. Marvel & DC have to make books returnable if they do not come out on time, if the artist or writer, or content has changed from the solicitation in previews. Which means that happens a lot. Every invoice has a list of books that are returnable and the dates to return them. Almost every Image #1 book is sold returnable to retailers as a way to minimize risk. There is so much stuff being sent back and forth, the additional cost of doing returns for VEI is miniscule and should NOT be the reason for not doing this. If a store uses that reason, they are lazy and don't really deserve to be in business. Here is why:

Our model is based on ordering in advance and then trying to sell as much of what we order as possible in the first week. every week new products come out, making last week's books old news. in that cycle it is super important to order correctly, and it's also super important to minimize your left overs. Returning books that have unsold and are eligible for returns is a vital part of lowering the overhead. Any store not actively doing that is doing something wrong.

I am so tired of the excuses some of you here have made for your stores. If the stores don't care about you as a customer, find one that does. If you don't have a choice, order online. Plenty of options. Many here have talked about how we take care of our customers. And yet with 700 posts just in this thread, not a single person PM'ed me about doing business with us for their monthly books. yes, we don't give as much discount as DCBS but our service level is totally different from DCBS. It's not apples to oranges. And the REAL difference, not in percentage, but in ACTUAL DOLLARS is really small. Do the math and you will see.

But I have said through out this thread that you should first talk to your stores. VEI does not gain much from me on this deal, I will be ordering an obscene amount of this book, either way. i don't really have a reason to try and get you guys to push your stores, besides trying to get vei on more shelves.

[Donovan]

In response to the above mocked blog post on the Canadian Valiant Fans FB page, Atom chimed in and said that NO STORE he or his team talked to has turned down the incentive offer.

If you're LCS is not getting you what you want, TALK TO ATOM!

[paradise]

In response to the above mocked blog post on the Canadian Valiant Fans FB page, Atom chimed in and said that NO STORE he or his team talked to has turned down the incentive offer.

If you're LCS is not getting you what you want, TALK TO ATOM!

That is because the offer is ridiculously easy to make money on for any store. Forget returnability, $20 for 25 books, which includes two 1:10, one 1:20, legends, and 5 covers to make those 25 copies, is the easiest deal ever put together.

[leonmallett]

....I am so tired of the excuses some of you here have made for your stores. If the stores don't care about you as a customer, find one that does.
...

Really does not reflect the options in the UK. Not attacking you Ed, but California (and New York) are markedly different than other regions globally. I live in a city of 1 million people. 2 comic shops, one barely worth the name as it is more a collectables shop. If the better one (my LCS) will not get this, then what option do I have other than 'find one that cares' overseas (USA) and pay high shipping on top of premium price for the book?

I understand California has a vibrant array of options for LCS choice, and presumably the same for New York, but they are two very specific markets, right?

i am not really seeing a solution that does not treat some parts of the globe as second class customers faced with paying high costs to pick this up from an international seller.

[Donovan]

What did Atom say when you asked him about international options?

(See what I did there...?)

[leonmallett]

What did Atom say when you asked him about international options?

(See what I did there...?)

I have had no reply from my email to VEI.

The email was sent 4 days ago, was civil I think, and here is what I wrote:

Dear VEI.

I am writing to express great disappointment over the Legends of the Geomancer announcement as a reader and customer who has bought at least one print copy of every monthly VEI comic book/'pamphlet' since your 2012 launch, as well as buying deluxe editions as they become available, and a few variants as I could afford them. I have been impressed with your timeliness in publication, and while I have culled my purchases from other publishers, that has not been the case for VEI books. For the majority of what has been published by VEI, overall I have been satisfied, with a small handful of notable instances where I think the wrong creative decision was taken. Despite the latter consideration, I have in fact continued to buy each issue of one title I have regarded as poor from its outset, simply as a way in some small part to support the wider line. I write that to give some context to what follows.

If I understand correctly, you will be publishing a story, Legends of the Geomancer, in very limited quantities, that will not be released in collected edition format? Is that understanding correct? Or is this something that may be reprinted in second printing format?

If neither collected edition nor second printing are part of the plan, then I think this is a mistaken strategy.

If my understanding is correct (and please correct me if not ), you are effectively making a difficult-to-get new issue; limiting access to story content. Something that you may not be aware of, but this is actually an awkward situation outside the USA: for example, copies of Rai Plus 1 were very scarce in the UK and elsewhere, and they had presumably higher print numbers than the proposed 1:25 ration book. In the UK, the likelihood of large quantities being ordered to meet demand from regular customers for VEI books will see a distinct scarcity. The UK and other non-USA countries do not have markets like California and New York, and I feel it is an unsafe assumption to believe they are alike to those two particular regions.

The fact is that the market varies so much by region effectively has an impact on readers who have been supporting VEI since its inception through their custom, yet will effectively be disenfranchised when it comes to accessing this story in a contemporaneously relevant way.

In effect, diligent fans and loyal customers, who know they want this series well in advance, may greatly struggle to get copies.

Honestly, I don't think what you are doing is a good idea. Any hype from speculation will already be offset by annoyed loyal readers who are concerned they will not be able to get a copy. The VF Forum is a small vocal minority, but division is already clear there; the point is that some are already evidently irritated and disappointed by this.

I hope you can understand my disappointment, and that of others, at this news as it appears at present. If you take time to respond I will be grateful.


Kind regards, Leon.

[Donovan]

IMO, it has a better chance of being read if it just says "I'm not seeing any options available to me based on my location, please help!" rather than soliloquy on your opinions of their promotion.

Similar to what I said in response to the blog post above on the CDN Fans FB page. We're reached a point where our first instinct is to *SQUEE* about things. Think of what we could accomplish if instead we spent that time trying to SOLVE our obstacles...

[Donovan]

And leon, my last post is a summation of internet culture - not directed towards you specifically!

[leonmallett]

IMO, it has a better chance of being read if it just says "I'm not seeing any options available to me based on my location, please help!" rather than soliloquy on your opinions of their promotion.

Similar to what I said in response to the blog post above on the CDN Fans FB page. We're reached a point where our first instinct is to *SQUEE* about things. Think of what we could accomplish if instead we spent that time trying to SOLVE our obstacles...

I can try that, but if they really want this to succeed, it seem they should be working a little harder to make it work, because something is not clicking for retailers it seems.

And even a simple acknowledgement of the time taken to email would have been nice.

[leonmallett]

...We're reached a point where our first instinct is to *SQUEE* about things. Think of what we could accomplish if instead we spent that time trying to SOLVE our obstacles...

Problems created by the publisher though in this instance. Funny that. The normal model has no real problem: a book is available to order, I ask for it on my pull list, it appears most of the time.

VEI do something different, problem ensues.

[leonmallett]

ratio variant
QR cover variant
pullbox
line variant
8-bit variant
sketch cover variant
signature series variant
gold cover variant
$1 debut
design variant
gatefold cover variant
con variant
blank cover con flipbook
shop variant
plus edition
mask cover variant
chromium cover variant
mega-cover variant
Valiantcraft variant

new story incentive variant <---- This is it, this is what's going to expand the fanbase and reward collectors.

Exatly; how is this going to be the panacea to VEI's desire to grow?

Publish more monthly titles and then maybe growth can follow accordingly.

[Donovan]

I can try that, but if they really want this to succeed, it seem they should be working a little harder to make it work, because something is not clicking for retailers it seems.

No argument there. But they are trying. It's far from ideal, but it's up to you to get in front of them - the briefer the better! (Preferably with an LCS to contact for us NA fans!).

[leonmallett]

I can try that, but if they really want this to succeed, it seem they should be working a little harder to make it work, because something is not clicking for retailers it seems.

No argument there. But they are trying. It's far from ideal, but it's up to you to get in front of them - the briefer the better! (Preferably with an LCS to contact for us NA fans!).

Seems like VEI then want fans to do all the work for a premium priced product (I am not talking the LotG book here, i am actually talking $3.99/£3.15 comic books....). Great position for a manufacturer to be in!

[Donovan]

Exatly; how is this going to be the panacea to VEI's desire to grow?

Publish more monthly titles and then maybe growth can follow accordingly.

I think VEI has (internally) reached their ceiling in terms of # of titles and growth. The only people buying new titles are die-hard fans, and thus LCS aren't accordingly bumping their orders.

More books to die-hard fans equals DEPTH of publishing.

Getting more LCSs to order Valiant equals BREADTH of publishing.

You can argue the logic or success of this initiative, BUT, I feel like I understand the idea behind what they are trying to accomplish here.

[leonmallett]

Exatly; how is this going to be the panacea to VEI's desire to grow?

Publish more monthly titles and then maybe growth can follow accordingly.

I think VEI has (internally) reached their ceiling in terms of # of titles and growth. The only people buying new titles are die-hard fans, and thus LCS aren't accordingly bumping their orders.

More books to die-hard fans equals DEPTH of publishing.

Getting more LCSs to order Valiant equals BREADTH of publishing.

You can argue the logic or success of this initiative, BUT, I feel like I understand the idea behind what they are trying to accomplish here.

To say the only people buying new titles are die-hards misses the fairly decent sales that new VEI ongoings have been getting in contrast to the mediocre numbers for many of the minis #1's from VEI, but misses the point of one book in at the expense of another out.

[leonmallett]

IMO, it has a better chance of being read if it just says "I'm not seeing any options available to me based on my location, please help!" rather than soliloquy on your opinions of their promotion.

Similar to what I said in response to the blog post above on the CDN Fans FB page. We're reached a point where our first instinct is to *SQUEE* about things. Think of what we could accomplish if instead we spent that time trying to SOLVE our obstacles...

I can try that, but if they really want this to succeed, it seem they should be working a little harder to make it work, because something is not clicking for retailers it seems.

And even a simple acknowledgement of the time taken to email would have been nice.

And in context of a question posed to VEI about this problem from another fan/customer on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/ValiantComics/ ... %22R%22%7D" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hi David, thanks for reaching out. Let me assure you we do not mean this as a slap to the face but rather a move to secure the future of the publisher you love so much. Let me ask you, how many other independent publishers have come and gone? They all, like us and like every other publisher today (including the big two), struggle with the same problem - how to get more comics on stands. The reason this is such a issue is because, in order to manage cash flows, stores order books to sell out on the day of release. This means any potential new fans that don't pre-order a book or come by their store after the first day won't have a chance to try a new book. We need to get more copies on shelves to create new fans so that we can continue to grow. But, to help our loyal readers, we've built Legends of the Geomancer to tie into Book of Death, which is 100% returnable and deeply discounted. This means the book is not as crazy to get as you think. Talk to your local store about pre-ordering it. If you have any trouble do email us at inquries@valiantentertainment.com and we'll call the store. We'll explain the discount and returnability but we'll also teach them how to make even more Valiant fans.

So they point people to the email, and answer when?

[Elveen]

Good post Rico.

[Donovan]

So they point people to the email, and answer when?

Again, try just emailing a brief question about what to do if you're an international customer.

Leave out criticisms of the promotion itself, because there's nothing YOU are going to do to change it now, and there's no comment they'll have for you that's going to change your mind.

Otherwise, you are no doubt prioritized WAY down the list, as there's no immediate action item for them to tend to.

"CAN YOU HELP INTERNATIONAL FANS GET THESE BOOKS THROUGH THEIR PREFERRED CHANNELS?"

Hit send.

[leonmallett]

So they point people to the email, and answer when?

Again, try just emailing a brief question about what to do if you're an international customer.

Leave out criticisms of the promotion itself, because there's nothing YOU are going to do to change it now, and there's no comment they'll have for you that's going to change your mind.

Otherwise, you are no doubt prioritized WAY down the list, as there's no immediate action item for them to tend to.

"CAN YOU HELP INTERNATIONAL FANS GET THESE BOOKS THROUGH THEIR PREFERRED CHANNELS?"

Hit send.

Donovan - at this point, it seems that I work to engage VEI, but they do not reciprocate. Not exactly encouraging me to try again.

By your advice, they may as well as caveat their contact email page with something like "Please keep all emails to 140 characters or less. Y'now, because."

Sorry for the sarcasm, but they say email, I email. I can do so again, but not loving the idea of jumping through hoops that are of VEI's creation just because hey, I would like to read a comic book roughly when it comes out.

[leonmallett]

Interesting comment on Facebook re: DCBS on this. Now this is a poster reporting what DCBS said, so read into that what you will, as well as how the poster has couched it (and accepting that the reply from DCBS may have been taken out of context):

https://www.facebook.com/ValiantComics/ ... %22R%22%7D" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I contacted DCBS about it and asked THEM to contact valiant concerning this, which they actually did. They basically blew them off. Since DCBS has pushed Valiant HARD since the very first new book, X-0 #1, and is a LARGE part of why Valiant has done as well as they have, well, that's really all I need to know. $110 million has apparently made them think they can do whatever they want. They have learned nothing from the history of their own company or the industry as a whole. If they are not bankrupt and out of business in 5 years, I will be VERY surprised. I have cancelled my titles and will laugh when their comics fail and their movies bomb. They basically just slapped their ***** across the faces of the people who put them in the position to be given the DMG money. I hope they enjoy while it lasts, because it WON'T last.