Lesser Titles???

[Squirrel]

I'd like to see them do a TPB, not necessarily a HC of some of the post Unity titles. But you can leave out PSI LORDS.

[Daniel Jackson]

The analogy with the early X-Men issues doesn't quite hold true.

What was the last issue printed? 499. 500 is coming this month. It's still being printed. Psi-Lords is not and hasn't been printed in over a decade.

That had more to do with the company wide downsizing of titles than with any flaws with that specific series.

Not all the series that VALIANT canceled were failures.

Well they sure didn't cancel them because they were successful.

[ManofTheAtom]

The analogy with the early X-Men issues doesn't quite hold true.

What was the last issue printed? 499. 500 is coming this month. It's still being printed. Psi-Lords is not and hasn't been printed in over a decade.

That had more to do with the company wide downsizing of titles than with any flaws with that specific series.

Not all the series that VALIANT canceled were failures.

Well they sure didn't cancel them because they were successful.

They canceled Psi-Lords but kept Timewalker going.

What does that tell you?

So far in this conversation people have been judging those equally.

[Elveen]

I'll jump back in.......


HC for every and all old Valiant/Accliam books, IMO, would not be a good business decision anytime soon.

I think that much/most of the old characters do fit, and need to be in the new universe.

My original ....... "I disagree" waaaaaay back on page 1, was just saying that all books should not be made into a $25 HC.

Make them easier to be accessable to the people.

That makes good business sense.

[ManofTheAtom]

I'll jump back in.......


HC for every and all old Valiant/Accliam books, IMO, would not be a good business decision anytime soon.

I think that much/most of the old characters do fit, and need to be in the new universe.

My original ....... "I disagree" waaaaaay back on page 1, was just saying that all books should not be made into a $25 HC.

Make them easier to be accessable to the people.

That makes good business sense.

HCs for the initial collection of a long running series, like X-O or Harbinger, makes sense, then continue reprinting the stories in tpbs.

HCs for short series, like Armorines and Timewalker, make sense as well as having two hcs that collect every known issue is appealing.

[Squirrel]

my thought is that they are going to make HC for the titles they plan on bringing back on a monthly basis

[ManofTheAtom]

my thought is that they are going to make HC for the titles they plan on bringing back on a monthly basis

That may be part of it, but I also think that the hcs are reflective of the properties they want to exploit outside comics, where continuity bears to importance.

Timewalker, Armorines, Psi-Lords, and HARD Corps are concepts that would work rather well outside comics.

[Steve Topper]

HCs for the initial collection of a long running series, like X-O or Harbinger, makes sense, then continue reprinting the stories in tpbs.

MotA,

This is a very quick way to drive off fans. One of the biggest complaints you can read about Marvel's reprint policy is their inconsistent formats for titles. Titles get started in HC then shift in later volumes to TPB -- and sales drop.

HC are notoriously designed for the collector in mind, not the casual reader. Collectors want consistent formats, consistent trade dress, etc. In effect, they want their books to look the same on their shelves (even if that design is ugly like the DC Archives). Casual readers want inexpensive product because they're casual (meaning they don't want or have a lot invested in it).

Every comic company publishing today will tell you they have sales data galore showing demographics of book sales. HC sell to adults with disposable income; TPB and monthly comics sell to more general customer.

Changing formats from HC to SC within a single title will kill sales on that title.

HCs for short series, like Armorines and Timewalker, make sense as well as having two hcs that collect every known issue is appealing.

Conceptually, this doesn't make a lot of sense at first glance. But, here's the kicker and here's what you said about it:

Timewalker, Armorines, Psi-Lords, and HARD Corps are concepts that would work rather well outside comics.

As "bibles" for possible movie deals, I would agree.

Timewalker - a Quantum Leap-style property. TV tie-in, big budget movie possibility

Armorines - a military squadron of Iron Men. Capitalize on the Iron Man movie(s).

and so on. Remember I said "bibles" for Hollywood producers.

One other point to consider on whether to collect these titles or not, if the material being collected is weak or even outright BAD, that will hurt future sales. This does not mean the concepts are bad, just the existing execution. And I think that's what previous posters are saying -- reprinting crap drives away potential readers, not bringing them in.

Using one of your favorite examples (AND I AM NOT ADVOCATING THIS IN THE SLIGHTEST!), what do you think the reaction would have been had VEI published X-O Manowar: Birth using the Acclaim X-O 1-7, instead of the VALIANT X-O 1-7? X-O is a great concept, but the Acclaim version isn't the execution you would want to see reprinted or publicizing the return of Valiant Heroes, is it?

Same with some of the weaker material. Punx, Outcast, Visitor, etc. weren't exactly prize-winners and do not showcase the best of Valiant.

[ManofTheAtom]

This is a very quick way to drive off fans. One of the biggest complaints you can read about Marvel's reprint policy is their inconsistent formats for titles. Titles get started in HC then shift in later volumes to TPB -- and sales drop.

Really? I didn't know that. Then why do they keep doing it like that?

HC are notoriously designed for the collector in mind, not the casual reader. Collectors want consistent formats, consistent trade dress, etc. In effect, they want their books to look the same on their shelves (even if that design is ugly like the DC Archives). Casual readers want inexpensive product because they're casual (meaning they don't want or have a lot invested in it).

Those may be two ends of the spectrum, collector and casual readers, but there has to be an in-between point who won't care either way.

I bet the in-between point is the one that keeps buying the singles.

Every comic company publishing today will tell you they have sales data galore showing demographics of book sales. HC sell to adults with disposable income; TPB and monthly comics sell to more general customer.

Sure, but VEI isn't releasing the originals' reprints as a monthly series, they're releasing them as collections, and I doubt they're doing it to appeal solely to the collector demographic of the market (despite the misleading name, collections).

Changing formats from HC to SC within a single title will kill sales on that title.

It hasn't stopped Marvel from doing it. And in fact they tend to release variant collections of collections, like their Ultimate Marvel hardcovers, which collect two or three individual trades.

Conceptually, this doesn't make a lot of sense at first glance. But, here's the kicker and here's what you said about it

Timewalker, Armorines, Psi-Lords, and HARD Corps are concepts that would work rather well outside comics.

As "bibles" for possible movie deals, I would agree.

Timewalker - a Quantum Leap-style property. TV tie-in, big budget movie possibility

Armorines - a military squadron of Iron Men. Capitalize on the Iron Man movie(s).

and so on. Remember I said "bibles" for Hollywood producers.

One other point to consider on whether to collect these titles or not, if the material being collected is weak or even outright BAD, that will hurt future sales. This does not mean the concepts are bad, just the existing execution. And I think that's what previous posters are saying -- reprinting crap drives away potential readers, not bringing them in.

See, that's the thing.

Timewalker, Armorines, and HARD Corps aren't as bad as people make them out to be. They're not perfect, but they don't need to be.

Most of the flak they get is because Shooter wasn't involved or something.

Using one of your favorite examples (AND I AM NOT ADVOCATING THIS IN THE SLIGHTEST!), what do you think the reaction would have been had VEI published X-O Manowar: Birth using the Acclaim X-O 1-7, instead of the VALIANT X-O 1-7? X-O is a great concept, but the Acclaim version isn't the execution you would want to see reprinted or publicizing the return of Valiant Heroes, is it?

I'm sure they asked themselves that very question, just like they probably asked themselves what the reaction would have been had they gone with a new version of the concept.

That they decided to go with the original is, hopefully, a sign of what their intentions are.

But back to the point at hand.

An Armorines collection of issue 0, XO 25, and Armorines 1-4 would be a very solid read.

Same for a collection of the first five issues of Timewalker.

Same with some of the weaker material. Punx, Outcast, Visitor, etc. weren't exactly prize-winners and do not showcase the best of Valiant.

But they don't have to.

We're not discussing how VEI can showcase the best of VALIANT (which they can do with some of the other 18 or so series), but whether or not those series should be collected and in what format... and thus far there hasn't been any reason for why they don't deserve to be collected, other than people don't think they're as good as the pre Unity stuff.

The point I've been making is that people who have never been exposed to these stories might like them.

[Steve Topper]

The point I've been making is that people who have never been exposed to these stories might like them.

I understand that point and I believe everyone else does. They just don't have your optimism over whether people will like them or not.

I'm not saying that everything post-Unity was bad, or even post-Chaos Effect, or even post-Birthquake. In fact, some of the material was very good. But some of the material was just bad and should probably just be forgotten. But, as you allude to, different people do have different tastes!

This is a very quick way to drive off fans. One of the biggest complaints you can read about Marvel's reprint policy is their inconsistent formats for titles. Titles get started in HC then shift in later volumes to TPB -- and sales drop.

Really? I didn't know that. Then why do they keep doing it like that?

When you get lower sales, you cut back on your costs. TPB are cheaper to produce than HCs. And the lower price point for a TPB might equate to higher number of sales and a higher profit. Doesn't always work that way, but that seems to be Marvel's thinking.

[yardstick]

my thought is that they are going to make HC for the titles they plan on bringing back on a monthly basis

This makes sense.

I'd guess that they will do Eternal Warrior, Bloodshot, HARD Corps, and Ninjak and then stop (at lease for a while)...

[ManofTheAtom]

my thought is that they are going to make HC for the titles they plan on bringing back on a monthly basis

This makes sense.

I'd guess that they will do Eternal Warrior, Bloodshot, HARD Corps, and Ninjak and then stop (at lease for a while)...

And Rai

Someone suggested that the animated intro was indicative of what titles they were going to reprint in hardcover.

Isn't Dr. Mirage there? That be cool

[yardstick]

Is there a particuar reason they cannot follow the HCs with TPBs?

I think it has been established that the HCs are a "thank you" to the fans/collectors.

With XO HC print run being probably less than 3k, How can they make enough profit to capitalize and start publishing monthlies?

[ManofTheAtom]

Is there a particuar reason they cannot follow the HCs with TPBs?

I think it has been established that the HCs are a "thank you" to the fans/collectors.

With XO HC print run being probably less than 3k, How can they make enough profit to capitalize and start publishing monthlies?

No, there isn't. The standard practice has always been to follow an hc with a tpb version of the same material.

The tpbs may not be planned for until after they release their initial line of hcs.

[yardstick]

...

My lack of faith might be disturbing...

I find your lack of faith disturbing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgGc9kruiLQ

[yardstick]

Is the industry really populated solely by 50-60 year old fanboys that have been reading comics since Fantastic Four #1, with a few staggerings of left overs from the 80's and 90's?

Yes

The only people I know of under the age of 18 that read comics just torrent them. Oh and my daughter but she more likes them to color on.


-neil

Last year I didn't go to any comic book panels in SDCC because of that sad, sad, sad fact, and next week won't be any different .

Not to hijack the thread, but can you guys give me the low-down on this please?

[yardstick]

my thought is that they are going to make HC for the titles they plan on bringing back on a monthly basis

This sounds reasonable and logical...

[yardstick]

my thought is that they are going to make HC for the titles they plan on bringing back on a monthly basis

This makes sense.

I'd guess that they will do Eternal Warrior, Bloodshot, HARD Corps, and Ninjak and then stop (at lease for a while)...

And Rai

Someone suggested that the animated intro was indicative of what titles they were going to reprint in hardcover.

Isn't Dr. Mirage there? That be cool

and Shadowman...

[ManofTheAtom]

Is the industry really populated solely by 50-60 year old fanboys that have been reading comics since Fantastic Four #1, with a few staggerings of left overs from the 80's and 90's?

Yes

The only people I know of under the age of 18 that read comics just torrent them. Oh and my daughter but she more likes them to color on.


-neil

Last year I didn't go to any comic book panels in SDCC because of that sad, sad, sad fact, and next week won't be any different .

Not to hijack the thread, but can you guys give me the low-down on this please?

DC is drowning in 60's nostalgia with their multiverse crap, while Marvel is pandering to 70's nostalgia with what they're doing to Spider-Man.

[ManofTheAtom]

my thought is that they are going to make HC for the titles they plan on bringing back on a monthly basis

This makes sense.

I'd guess that they will do Eternal Warrior, Bloodshot, HARD Corps, and Ninjak and then stop (at lease for a while)...

And Rai

Someone suggested that the animated intro was indicative of what titles they were going to reprint in hardcover.

Isn't Dr. Mirage there? That be cool

and Shadowman...

I'm sure we'll see a Shadowman hc. 1 through 6 or 7 most likely.

[yardstick]

Is the industry really populated solely by 50-60 year old fanboys that have been reading comics since Fantastic Four #1, with a few staggerings of left overs from the 80's and 90's?

Yes

The only people I know of under the age of 18 that read comics just torrent them. Oh and my daughter but she more likes them to color on.


-neil

Last year I didn't go to any comic book panels in SDCC because of that sad, sad, sad fact, and next week won't be any different .

Not to hijack the thread, but can you guys give me the low-down on this please?

DC is drowning in 60's nostalgia with their multiverse crap, while Marvel is pandering to 70's nostalgia with what they're doing to Spider-Man.

sorry... I was referring to the Torrent vs read part...?

[Cyberstrike]

and just to make it clear, I'd love it to work out. But when DC re-released Captain Marvel (well the fact they had to change the name to Shazam complicates this example) people picked up out of nostalgia.

I have read people post on this very site, saying they picked up early Valiant because they remembered reading Doctar Solar or Turok or Magnus and it was because of good, original, NEW, stories that they stuck around.

a Quantum&Woody trade is going to sell. There is a good amount of "word of mouth" and nostalgia. I have never read it but I would pick that trade up.

Psi-Force? Not so much. Nor a Doctor Mirage. Even though I loved that title. All of Valiants characters are not equal.

Plus with the US economy as it is right now, this is just an unlucky time for VEI to be taking chances.

Isn't Psi-Force from Marvel's New Universe?

I was never exposed to Magnus, Solar, or Turok until I read VALIANT.

Are things really that grim that new readers aren't exposed to new concepts AT ALL?

Is the industry really populated solely by 50-60 year old fanboys that have been reading comics since Fantastic Four #1, with a few staggerings of left overs from the 80's and 90's?

That's a sad, sad, sad prospect.

1) Yep and it has 1 TPB.

2) Same here.

3) Yep, I predict that by 2020 comics books as we know them will go the way of the dinosaurs.

4) How do you think guys like Grant Morrison, Geoff Johns, and Kurt Busiek get the major high profile projects at DC? While better writers like
Greg Rucka, Peter David, and Chuck Dixon either quit or have gotten fired?

[ManofTheAtom]

and just to make it clear, I'd love it to work out. But when DC re-released Captain Marvel (well the fact they had to change the name to Shazam complicates this example) people picked up out of nostalgia.

I have read people post on this very site, saying they picked up early Valiant because they remembered reading Doctar Solar or Turok or Magnus and it was because of good, original, NEW, stories that they stuck around.

a Quantum&Woody trade is going to sell. There is a good amount of "word of mouth" and nostalgia. I have never read it but I would pick that trade up.

Psi-Force? Not so much. Nor a Doctor Mirage. Even though I loved that title. All of Valiants characters are not equal.

Plus with the US economy as it is right now, this is just an unlucky time for VEI to be taking chances.

Isn't Psi-Force from Marvel's New Universe?

I was never exposed to Magnus, Solar, or Turok until I read VALIANT.

Are things really that grim that new readers aren't exposed to new concepts AT ALL?

Is the industry really populated solely by 50-60 year old fanboys that have been reading comics since Fantastic Four #1, with a few staggerings of left overs from the 80's and 90's?

That's a sad, sad, sad prospect.

1) Yep and it has 1 TPB.

2) Same here.

3) Yep, I predict that by 2020 comics books as we know them will go the way of the dinosaurs.

4) How do you think guys like Grant Morrison, Geoff Johns, and Kurt Busiek get the major high profile projects at DC? While better writers like
Greg Rucka, Peter David, and Chuck Dixon either quit or have gotten fired?

Did you see that solicit for the New Krypton one shot?

WTF?!? It's NOT the 1970's anymore.

I bet that we'll see Alura and Zor-El there, just like in the 70's. It's pathetic.