HARBINGER: THE BEGINNING - Recolored Pages - SNEAK PREVIEW

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:34 pm

manningfan wrote:Some of the new coloring seems to look better than others. I'll have to wait on the finished product to fully comment.

Same here. I will agree with Magnus about page three though.

schi0249 · Post by **schi0249** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:21 pm

Though I don't have a problem with the old issues, this TPB looks real nice. It's an easy way for me to and 8 issues I don't currently have. Here's hoping we get more of these. Especially Pre-Unity. Hint.. Hint..

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:53 pm

schi0249 wrote:Though I don't have a problem with the old issues, this TPB looks real nice. It's an easy way for me to and 8 issues I don't currently have. Here's hoping we get more of these. Especially Pre-Unity. Hint.. Hint..

Nine... nine issues

0-7 and the new one

VHMMV · Post by **VHMMV** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:13 pm

leonmallett wrote:When did Baxter books stop? There was the second titans book and this was followed by the second LoSh book on premium paper, but then we got the glossy stuff in the 90's. What happened?

Somewhere in between, DC switched to "New Format" books, too. Remember those?

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:27 pm

I am in no way saying that I don't also like the original JJ work, but the new stuff isn't bad. If this is what we will be getting in the future, it sure won't make me not buy it.

Thanks, Dino and Greg!!!

-slym

manningfan · Post by **manningfan** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:13 pm

Daniel Jackson wrote:
manningfan wrote:Some of the new coloring seems to look better than others. I'll have to wait on the finished product to fully comment.
Same here. I will agree with Magnus about page three though.

Yeah. It appears that some things will look nicer than originally, and some things will look worse. Either way, it's Valiant, and not the Acclaim version!

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:16 pm

slym2none wrote:I am in no way saying that I don't also like the original JJ work, but the new stuff isn't bad. If this is what we will be getting in the future, it sure won't make me not buy it.

Thanks, Dino and Greg!!!

-slym

People are skipping the part of the release that says that the original colorists were involved in the remastering.

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:56 pm

I can appreciate both the original work and the new recoloring. I'd say that the only gripe I have (and it's a small one) is that the dark areas on the pages, like Pete's hair on the first page, look too dark. The dark spots seem to overpower the rest of the page. However, I'm thinking that the actual comic in hand will probably look better than on a computer screen.

jmpet · Post by **jmpet** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:23 pm

Deleted

TimeWillTell · Post by **TimeWillTell** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:42 pm

I think you are an *SQUEE*.
Just my opinion.

muzzsucker · Post by **muzzsucker** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:55 am

jmpet wrote:>I'm thinking that the actual comic in hand will probably look better than on a computer screen.<

Yes. You know how incredible an original color page looks in your hands? As good as a computer colored page on the computer. ANY original color blows away any computer color- the only difference is the medium- Valiants were printed on shabby pulp- the lowest form of the printed word there is ("At our peak, it cost us 3 cents per comic book." Shooter re: 1980's Marvel. I think he said Valiants cost him 20 cents because of the low print runs).

Which only brings up another point- what is this new Harbinger TPB printed on?

(Remember the Death of Captain Marvel TPB? That's my point.)

One last thought. Original comic art is 125% bigger than the printed page. So this means the ink lines on a printed page are about 80% actual size (and the smaller something is reduced, the better it ends up looking in the finished product). Putting out a TPB and using an actual copy of the comic book as the base for this reprint is a non-sequitor-

As I wrote in BWS' Storyteller #6(?), what I always liked most about him was the way he can draw a line and give that line so much meaning... for us Valiant fans, I equate this to the level of artwork in early A&A issues- which is on par with Wrightson's Frankenstein. Screw demand or print run- those early A&As are priceless pieces of art.

In scanning a book and reprinting it at actual size, you are literally losing 20% of the quality. Now it's fine to lose 20% of the quality of the actual artwork provided there is something to make up for it. And me personally, realistically-looking recolored explosions don't make up for the line art lost when you go 1:1.

BAH!

The only other thing that would make up for it is the announcement of something else/something new to get us all so excited, we run to our local comic shop and preorder 20 copies of it... this we still have yet to see.

Interesting. Do you work in comics? I don't mean to be rude but I ask because I remember the same process was used in the Absolute Sandman edition that DC did (using the old books and coloring them again with computers) and I don't notice a difference in the art quality.

I don't see one on these pages either. Maybe I just don't have a trained eye...then again maybe you need a trained eye to see the difference. Most people who read this hardcover aren't going to have a trained eye.

Again I don't mean to be rude but aren't you the guy that used to be the valiant big shot but is out of the loop now? And you came back just as new stuff was coming out right? And you're the guy that owes somebody a whole Valiant collection too? Forgive me if I'm wrong. Your theory is very interesting and I just like to know a little bit about you so I can judge how much weight to give it (that sounds condescending but I don't mean it to).

Chuck · Post by **Chuck** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:15 am

muzzsucker wrote: Interesting. Do you work in comics? I don't mean to be rude but I ask because I remember the same process was used in the Absolute Sandman edition that DC did (using the old books and coloring them again with computers) and I don't notice a difference in the art quality.

I don't see one on these pages either. Maybe I just don't have a trained eye...then again maybe you need a trained eye to see the difference. Most people who read this hardcover aren't going to have a trained eye. (yup)

Again I don't mean to be rude but aren't you the guy that used to be the valiant big shot but is out of the loop now? And you came back just as new stuff was coming out right? And you're the guy that owes somebody a whole Valiant collection too? Forgive me if I'm wrong. Your theory is very interesting and I just like to know a little bit about you so I can judge how much weight to give it (that sounds condescending but I don't mean it to).

Hopefully, the majority of people who read the hardcover are new readers of things VALIANT. The digital coloring will be interesting to older VALIANT fans; however, to the new readers I would hope that they would care more about the content of the story than how the book was colored.

Remember folks the story still kicks *SQUEE* no matter how its colored for better or worse.

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:57 am

The coloring is fantastic, but I agree about the explosion. The original seems to have more dimension and character. All in all, it looks great and makes Lapham's pencils really stand out. I mean, you look at what he did here and what he did later and you can definitely see how right Shooter was when he called him a "quickly maturing talent" and compared him to Frank Miller. Amazing to think he was only 19 or 20 when he did this. I like the fact that the colors aid the rest of the art, instead of distracting from it. If this is the new VALIANT, I think we can all expect great things.

jmpet · Post by **jmpet** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:52 am

Deleted

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:09 am

jmpet wrote:I am hopefully close to negotiating a deal with ZephyrWasHot to resolve that issue from so long ago.

Chris

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:18 am

cjv wrote:
jmpet wrote:I am hopefully close to negotiating a deal with ZephyrWasHot to resolve that issue from so long ago.

Chris

Let me add a

to that too.

greg · Post by **greg** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:18 am

jmpet wrote:Greg emailed me when they announced the TPB coming out and I checked the boards and was amazed to see so many people talking about Valiant all over again.

That's true... I wanted to make sure the old-timers of Valiant online world knew that Valiant's back.
Since Chris Vitek (cjv) was already here... he didn't need an email.

I emailed Joe Petrilak and Steve Topper.
I got the interview scans when I emailed Vinnie Bartilucci.

In 1997, when I started my first website for Valiant, I found out there
were a few guys who had already done some Valiant site work online.
These guys allowed me to "stand on their shoulders" and expand on the content
that had, building up a "Valiant community" as the years went by.

Some have left the "active Valiant fandom" since 1997,
but a new Origin of Harada story by Jim Shooter is the kind of thing
that is worth mentioning... so I mentioned it.

To be honest, I'm surprised the old email address still worked!

jmpet wrote:I am hopefully close to negotiating a deal with ZephyrWasHot to resolve that issue from so long ago.

Here's a

that the old transaction can finally be resolved.

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:17 am

jmpet wrote:I am hopefully close to negotiating a deal with ZephyrWasHot to resolve that issue from so long ago.

What's to negotiate? Give the men what you owe him. It's that simple.

jmpet · Post by **jmpet** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:24 pm

Deleted

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:30 pm

jmpet wrote:>What's to negotiate? Give the men what you owe him. It's that simple.<

It's complicated because 1) I don't have the books anymore- my ex-wife does and 2) this is a private business transaction that has become forum fodder. And anyone who's done business with me knows the #1 rule (and why).

I'm pretty sure #1 is the reason ZWH has been understanding about everything. As for #2, this is by far the most cordial busted transaction on this site ever.

Anyone remember TLC5555555's Magnus 0?

siren3-4 · Post by **siren3-4** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:51 pm

X-O HoboJoe wrote:
Anyone remember TLC5555555's Magnus 0?

. . . do tell . . .

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:01 pm

greg wrote:
jmpet wrote:Greg emailed me when they announced the TPB coming out and I checked the boards and was amazed to see so many people talking about Valiant all over again.
That's true... I wanted to make sure the old-timers of Valiant online world knew that Valiant's back.
Since Chris Vitek (cjv) was already here... he didn't need an email.
I emailed Joe Petrilak and Steve Topper.
I got the interview scans when I emailed Vinnie Bartilucci.

In 1997, when I started my first website for Valiant, I found out there
were a few guys who had already done some Valiant site work online.
These guys allowed me to "stand on their shoulders" and expand on the content
that had, building up a "Valiant community" as the years went by.

Some have left the "active Valiant fandom" since 1997,
but a new Origin of Harada story by Jim Shooter is the kind of thing
that is worth mentioning... so I mentioned it.

To be honest, I'm surprised the old email address still worked!

jmpet wrote:I am hopefully close to negotiating a deal with ZephyrWasHot to resolve that issue from so long ago.
Here's a that the old transaction can finally be resolved.

There was a site called Bridge to the Future that was about VALIANT, but the guy closed it long ago, around the time U2K came out.

It was a good site, it had tons of info like a list of projects that never came out.

myron · Post by **myron** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:12 pm

X-O HoboJoe wrote:
jmpet wrote:>What's to negotiate? Give the men what you owe him. It's that simple.<

It's complicated because 1) I don't have the books anymore- my ex-wife does and 2) this is a private business transaction that has become forum fodder. And anyone who's done business with me knows the #1 rule (and why).
I'm pretty sure #1 is the reason ZWH has been understanding about everything. As for #2, this is by far the most cordial busted transaction on this site ever.

Anyone remember TLC5555555's Magnus 0?

...d'you suppose he'll be buying dino et al's new product???

...maybe that can be folded in half by his mailperson also...

Chuck · Post by **Chuck** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:30 am

jedimarley wrote:
jmpet wrote:I am hopefully close to negotiating a deal with ZephyrWasHot to resolve that issue from so long ago.

What's to negotiate? Give the men what you owe him. It's that simple.

How many years has it been.

hmmmm $$$$$ x interest

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:43 am

Chuck wrote:
jedimarley wrote:
jmpet wrote:I am hopefully close to negotiating a deal with ZephyrWasHot to resolve that issue from so long ago.

What's to negotiate? Give the men what you owe him. It's that simple.
How many years has it been.

hmmmm $$$$$ x interest

Exactly.