Solar Valiant fans project

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

SOTU is hurting the person he sells this to. He is hurting them financially. THEY may think so, they may be quite happy, but the reality is, the money's gone. :

I'm sure the buyer appreciates you protecting from himself....... (and you still claim there is no ego involved!!!??? Now people can't spend thier own money as they like without you saving them from thier own stupidity?)

Let's not spin spin spin, OCD. Seriously.

Stop spinning. That's not what I said, ever. Stop spinning, OCD.

STOP WITH THE SPINNING, OCD.

No one said ANYTHING about PROTECTING ANYONE from ANYTHING. You asked who was hurt. I answered the question. I said NOTHING about PREVENTING ANYONE from doing it.

Stop spinning, OCD. Stop spinning.

SOTU is also hurting the community by diminishing the meaning of these projects.

Again, Your version of the "meaning"

What, and your version of "wedding rings"? Those have no meaning to, right?

SOTU is hurting Justin after the fact by making money Justin COULD have made on the sale of these (yes, that is the weakest part of the argument by far, but it's still part.):

Not even worth a response.

How old are you? Really? Only children and teens say things like this.

If it's not worth a response, don't make ANY.

Seems to me the only thing being hurt is a the feelings of a few members.

Look, OCD, if you can't have a discussion without throwing these attempts to insult out, then what's the point? Why even bother?

No one's FEELINGS are being "hurt". Don't believe me? Answer this question, logically: how could Akuma selling HIS OWN book for a profit hurt the FEELINGS of other people? Akuma's not doing anything PERSONALLY to anyone (with regards to selling the book SPECIFICALLY, not his personal attacks against me, which don't hurt me in the slightest).....he's diminshing the GROUP, this COMMUNITY (and THIS is where I use the word "community" to actually refer to THIS group of people. Just though you might like that clarification. ), not anyone on a PERSONAL level.

Oy. Some people's children
Show me where I replied with "Stop selling your book for profit, you big fat doody head, it hurts my feelings!!!" You must have missed the part where I explained that this didn't hurt ME, and it wasn't about ME.

Your comment is meant only to inflame.

Yawn,... Believe me bud, If i wanted to insult you I could do better than that.........

Uh huh. You keep saying that, and maybe you'll believe it, too.

I have no need of insults as I'm not really worried about how you feel.....

And yet, you've tossed out several of them. If you have no need of them, then why are you tossing them out?

I would argue that you have shown all the classic signs of being offended by SOTU's sale.

I'm sorry, do you know what the difference is between the words "offended" and "feelings hurt"?

You may again Nit Pick all you like,

It's not called "nit picking"...it's called "debunking your nonsense."

but where I come from, being offended is one version of getting your feelings hurt.

Where do YOU come from, Bizarro World?

(see what I mean about the boring literal interpretations of other peoples words?........)

If you meant "offended", say "offended." Say what you ACTUALLY MEAN, and no one will question you.

See what I mean about people who want to backpedal and make me force them to say what they ACTUALLY mean?

Here's another bit of reality: in the REAL WORLD, getting your FEELINGS HURT has NOTHING to do with being offended. I am offended by people having sex with dead animals and children, but does that hurt my feelings?

Um. Only in your Bizarro World definitions of things.

You've lost your mind, OCD, just give up already.

So, the only thing determining right and wrong is a clause?
You'd make a good lawyer!

Zeph, you yourself have just finished refuting two other points of my argument............ Why would ask such an inflamatory question, and then insinuate there is something wrong with the legal profession??? tsk tsk.....

I'll ignore your Bizarro World first sentence, as it has no bearing on my question, but like I said...the only determining factor between right and wrong is a CLAUSE?

You'd make a good lawyer!

As far as insinuating there's "something wrong with the legal profession"....you also apparently never read Shakespeare.

If someone SHOULD get something for $30 but it ends up costing them $160 or $200 or whatever....and they're HAPPY....has it STILL not cost them that money?

Who decides what someone SHOULD get??? oh thats right, you.... sorry carry on........

Are you daft? In THESE cases, what someone SHOULD get was DECIDED when they were first offered. HELLO!

Now you're just being rude and insulting. And it's not even ACCURATE rudeness and insulting. It would be ONE thing if you called me an arrogant blowhard, which I completely am, and did it in a funny manner.....but no one here is having "delicate sensibilities" trod on.

ok, you're an arrogant blowhard,....... that was funny to me. Does that count?

yawwwwnnnnn....

1. I'm sorry, were you unaware of the bashing in RESPONSE? Bashing that was much WORSE? Oh yes, that's right, you AGREE with that bashing, so that makes it ok. I see. Moral relativism at its BEST!

Son, stop poking the cat with that stick!.....
But dad, Akuma is doing it too!!!!!

Oh for God's sake, are you KIDDING?? Don't be so INCREDIBLY obtuse. Seriously! I wasn't excusing MY "bashing" with Akuma's bashing. YOU were whining and carrying on about ME bashing, but IGNORING Akuma's ACTUAL bashing, because you AGREE with it. You can't DO that without being a hypocrite. What is wrong with you? Oh yes...you're a moral relativist. THAT'S what's wrong with you.

This has NOTHING to do with "Well, AKUMA'S doing it, so *I* can do it, too!"

Man, debating with you is like debating with a 2 year old. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU???

Are you taking lessons in obtuseness from MOTA in secret??

Grow up, if you want to be juvenile, then lets remember who posted the first disparaging remark in this thread. I believe Akuma posted a book for sale and then you began bashing his morals ect. "Daddy,.... Zeph did it FIRST!!!!" again, yawn.........

Like I said....pull your head out of your arse. You need to UNDERSTAND what it is that is said to you FIRST, BEFORE responding. Fair enough?

Aside from the issue of posts appearing in ORDER, and the function of the WRITTEN word and the inability to ACTUALLY gang up on someone, where were you when *I* was being "ganged up upon", on these boards? Hmmm...?

once again, How old are you?.......

Clearly old enough to UNDERSTAND what it is that is being said to ME, which is more than you can say.

and the outright attempt to ruin another members chances of selling an item at a profit borders on harrasment.

Don't minimize what this is by calling it "an item.," These are NOT just "an item" any more than your wedding rings are just "an item."

don't avoid the point. you've tried to ruin his sale. You even outright asked people not to bid if you did. Thats one method of bid rigging. You being the big project manager should know about that.

Since you ignored it the first time, I'll say it again: don't minimize these by calling them "an item."

One more time: THIS WASN'T AN AUCTION.

So ENOUGH with this "auction interference" crap.

Didn't Greg once have a rule about that sort of thing?

Now you're invoking GREG?

Mentioning the aggreed upon rules is not invoking Greg....... I'm upholding the community standards just like you were.

Pay attention, I'll say this slowly: this was NOT AN AUCTION. Therefore, since it was NOT AN AUCTION, there was NO interference happening.

(Man I need a rule book if I'm going to try and compete with all this double talking hypocracy.......!!!)

What a joke.

You truly don't comprehend a lot, do you?

Oh, and by the way....Galileo? Not murdered.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

the debate between the two of you is, in point of fact, absolutely pointless.

neither of you is going to change your mind on the subject...you know it and i know it.

it's like watching a debate on religion between an atheist and a christian. neither of them is going to walk away saying "oh my god, you're absolutely right...i've been so wrong all this time."

it's fun to watch, no doubt...but ultimately pointless.

so agree to disagree, shake hands and go back to your neutral corners.

you're both good peeps in my eyes and this road leads to a conclusion that i honestly don't think either of you wants to be caught up in.

This is where you've never really understood WHY I do this.

I don't do this to change the OPPONENT'S mind.

Never have.

I do this to clarify and codify a position that others might share, but not know how to put in words as well as I can. I also do this to sway any fence sitters. I know I push some people off on the OTHER side of the fence, but I also manage to persuade a LOT of people to my way of thinking.

Plus, if I can knock someone's ego down a peg or two in the process who decided, as OCD has, to get personal, more power to me.

I have NEVER conducted an argument in private messages. Ever.

Why?

Because I'm not going to change the opponent's mind, nor he mine.

But it's never been about that.

Oh, and if you even THINK about selling that ONE thing, I'll beat you about the ears.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

SOTU is hurting the person he sells this to. He is hurting them financially. THEY may think so, they may be quite happy, but the reality is, the money's gone. :

I'm sure the buyer appreciates you protecting from himself....... (and you still claim there is no ego involved!!!??? Now people can't spend thier own money as they like without you saving them from thier own stupidity?)

SOTU is also hurting the community by diminishing the meaning of these projects.

Again, Your version of the "meaning"

SOTU is hurting Justin after the fact by making money Justin COULD have made on the sale of these (yes, that is the weakest part of the argument by far, but it's still part.):

Not even worth a response.

Seems to me the only thing being hurt is a the feelings of a few members.

Look, OCD, if you can't have a discussion without throwing these attempts to insult out, then what's the point? Why even bother?

No one's FEELINGS are being "hurt". Don't believe me? Answer this question, logically: how could Akuma selling HIS OWN book for a profit hurt the FEELINGS of other people? Akuma's not doing anything PERSONALLY to anyone (with regards to selling the book SPECIFICALLY, not his personal attacks against me, which don't hurt me in the slightest).....he's diminshing the GROUP, this COMMUNITY (and THIS is where I use the word "community" to actually refer to THIS group of people. Just though you might like that clarification. ), not anyone on a PERSONAL level.

Oy. Some people's children
Show me where I replied with "Stop selling your book for profit, you big fat doody head, it hurts my feelings!!!" You must have missed the part where I explained that this didn't hurt ME, and it wasn't about ME.

Your comment is meant only to inflame.

Yawn,... Believe me bud, If i wanted to insult you I could do better than that......... I have no need of insults as I'm not really worried about how you feel..... I would argue that you have shown all the classic signs of being offended by SOTU's sale. You may again Nit Pick all you like, but where I come from, being offended is one version of getting your feelings hurt. (see what I mean about the boring literal interpretations of other peoples words?........)

So, the only thing determining right and wrong is a clause?
You'd make a good lawyer!

Zeph, you yourself have just finished refuting two other points of my argument............ Why would ask such an inflamatory question, and then insinuate there is something wrong with the legal profession??? tsk tsk.....

If someone SHOULD get something for $30 but it ends up costing them $160 or $200 or whatever....and they're HAPPY....has it STILL not cost them that money?

Who decides what someone SHOULD get??? oh thats right, you.... sorry carry on........

Now you're just being rude and insulting. And it's not even ACCURATE rudeness and insulting. It would be ONE thing if you called me an arrogant blowhard, which I completely am, and did it in a funny manner.....but no one here is having "delicate sensibilities" trod on.

ok, you're an arrogant blowhard,....... that was funny to me. Does that count?

1. I'm sorry, were you unaware of the bashing in RESPONSE? Bashing that was much WORSE? Oh yes, that's right, you AGREE with that bashing, so that makes it ok. I see. Moral relativism at its BEST!

Son, stop poking the cat with that stick!.....
But dad, Akuma is doing it too!!!!!

Grow up, if you want to be juvenile, then lets remember who posted the first disparaging remark in this thread. I believe Akuma posted a book for sale and then you began bashing his morals ect. "Daddy,.... Zeph did it FIRST!!!!" again, yawn.........

Aside from the issue of posts appearing in ORDER, and the function of the WRITTEN word and the inability to ACTUALLY gang up on someone, where were you when *I* was being "ganged up upon", on these boards? Hmmm...?

once again, How old are you?.......

and the outright attempt to ruin another members chances of selling an item at a profit borders on harrasment.

Don't minimize what this is by calling it "an item.," These are NOT just "an item" any more than your wedding rings are just "an item."

don't avoid the point. you've tried to ruin his sale. You even outright asked people not to bid if you did. Thats one method of bid rigging. You being the big project manager should know about that.

Didn't Greg once have a rule about that sort of thing?

Now you're invoking GREG?

Mentioning the aggreed upon rules is not invoking Greg....... I'm upholding the community standards just like you were. (Man I need a rule book if I'm going to try and compete with all this double talking hypocracy.......!!!)

By the way....when you quote me, please do not take SNIPPETS of quotes...please do, as I do, quote the ENTIRE POST.

That's just being respectful.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

I have to admit, I didn't read all those.

Me neither.

[GJB]

This discussion reminds me of the irresistable force meeting the immovable object.

[mavros]

This discussion reminds me of the irresistable force meeting the immovable object.

Juggernaught versus Blob?

(now that I think about it, did that match up ever occur in the X-men comics?)

[Chiclo]

This discussion reminds me of the irresistable force meeting the immovable object.

Juggernaught versus Blob?

(now that I think about it, did that match up ever occur in the X-men comics?)

It could now that Cain is towing the line for the good guys.

[cinlach@aol.com]

Oh, and if you even THINK about selling that ONE thing, I'll beat you about the ears.

no worries...there's a difference between something bought and something given.

i'm not a complete savage after all...lol

only a partial savage.

[Rufusharley]

I have to admit, I didn't read all those.

There has got to be easier ways to post bump.

[Valiant OCD]

I'd like to take a quick moment to publicly thank Zephhy, for staying true to form. As I predicted, he exerted an inordinate amount of energy Nit Picking, eveylittle detail of my posts. Succeeding yet again in ignoring the actual meaning of them.

Funny how he can scribble on at length about what makes each scentence written by someone who disaggrees with him wrong, wrong, wrong. Yet cannot comment on the overall point of the debate. The one that goes somthing like this:

You consistantly harass people who are acting well within thier rights. Interfering with sales, trying to sway opinion over and over again, derailing threads, inserting pointless and mean spirited comments in any thread where your opponent happens to post. ("Akuma's got a shadow") Of course you are ever mindful not to break too many rules, so that you may stay and continue with your harrassment. (unless of course your prey falters and breaks a rule, then you retaliate in kind waving the banner of "Fair is fair!!!") When you get called on this behavior, you claim the opponent should "attack back"......... Why should I or anyone else have to spend thier day attacking in retaliation, when we've broken no rules? You have every right to post your opinions and thoughts, but at some point (oh i dunno,.... 200 times or so.....) it becomes harrassment. YOU SHOULD STOP.

If laws or rules were being broken I'd be right there with you buddy, however they are not. So at some point you should shut up,..... Honestly. I've been away for months, and as soon as I come back there you are attacking people. In reality, in the 18 or so hours since I voiced my opinion, I've gotten 4 seperate PM's saying "thank you for calling Zephhy on his crap". What does that tell you? It tells me your constant debating and pontificating are making this little escape from reality "less enjoyable" for a quite a few folks. Does that make you proud? Are you so caught up in this world where you are the champion of right and wrong that you don't care that you are making this place less fun?............ Shallow and sad.

Yes I get facts wrong as much as the next guy, and i spell things wrong, and you can insinuate that I have a limited understanding of countless things over and over, (heck, I hardly ever use latin phrases, I must be a moron!) but the spirit of my message is still true and shared by quite a few members. You should stop harrassing people. Call it debating, upholding community standards, even championing the "taken advantage of", but at this point it amounts to nothing more than board killing, fun stealing droning.

I'm sure you enjoy these little debates as I've not seen much evidence that there is much more to your life than comics, dogs, work, and arguing with complete strangers. I don't say that to be mean, it's sad that can't see that all these little victories you imaginge on the screen are petty and pointless. Especially when weighed against the results, which are at best distracting and at worst, a good reason for members to dread coming here to talk about thier hobby with friends.

Now go ahead and pick these scentences apart ignoring the meaning behind them, as you seem incapable of doing so.

[cobra_commander]

So you're saying Akuma Matata?

Thats going in my sig or something

[cobra_commander]

I have to admit, I didn't read all those.

Just f***'in

[cobra_commander]

Did anybody notice that on page 7 EVERY single post (bar one from Depluto) was by Zeph? Thats gotta be some kind of record/ achievement?? Has that been done before??

[magnusr]

everyone...EVERYONE...who's still owed is just supposed to let it go?

I know you talk about not letting go of the other debts, but as only one specific debt has been brought up here, your statement can be misunderstood.

I just want to say that, speaking only for myself, when a debt is paid, I will find it perfectly normal that everyone lets go of that specific debt.

/Magnus

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

I'd like to take a quick moment to publicly thank Zephhy,

Who?

for staying true to form.

Oh, you mean ME....well, you're welcome!

As I predicted, he exerted an inordinate amount of energy Nit Picking, eveylittle detail of my posts. Succeeding yet again in ignoring the actual meaning of them.

Tell me something...if there are "little details" about your posts that aren't important, that are irrelevant, and not worthy of discussing...why make them? Since when is "eveylittle detail" in a debate not worth commenting on? In fact, exactly the opposite is true. Every LITTLE detail is where people usually like to hide. I expose "eveylittle detail" so that people can't hide behind them. That's Debate 101.

And I'm sorry, an "inordinate amount of energy" was "exerted" by me?

Well, hey, typing messages on a message board may be difficult for you, but not for me.

Funny how he can scribble on at length about what makes each scentence written by someone who disaggrees with him wrong, wrong, wrong. Yet cannot comment on the overall point of the debate. The one that goes somthing like this:

Clearly, you didn't read a thing I wrote, because the entire RESPONSE was a comment on the "overall point" of the debate.

You consistantly harass people who are acting well within thier rights.

Oh, I see...now we're typing in different colors for effect.

I really wish you'd let this piece of fluff go. No one is contesting that it's not his RIGHT to do it. Never. Not once. It's UNcontested.

So why do you keep bringing it up? Because you have nothing else to stand on?

Interfering with sales,

Are you aware that I have no access to Akuma's PMs? Are you also aware that I have no ability to intercept or delete any PMs that Akuma receives? Are you also aware that Akuma said, in his first post, to "PM me with offers"? Since I do not possess EITHER of those abilities, that I cannot, by definition, "interfere" with sales?

Any of that? Any of it sinking in?

Well, I suppose I should be happy you dropped that lie about it being an auction. I'll take 'em where I can get 'em.

trying to sway opinion over and over again,

Of course...which is exactly what YOU are now trying to do, and have a RIGHT to do, just like everyone else. DUH.

derailing threads,

On THIS board? Are you KIDDING? Derailing is not only NOT a sin, NOT a crime, it is an ARTFORM on THIS board. People are not only ALLOWED to derail, they are ENCOURAGED.

inserting pointless and mean spirited comments in any thread where your opponent happens to post. ("Akuma's got a shadow")

I'm sorry, but please point me to where I said "Akuma's got a shadow."

I'm waiting.

Got it yet?

Here:

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... ht=#286067

Read it again, OCD. You clearly missed it the first time.

And please tell me what is "mean spirited and pointless" about saying "Go for it" is "mean" and "pointless"? When I want my friend chainnball to GET a sale? Please....what's mean and pointless about "go for it"?

And let's insert another fact into your false information up there: Akuma has posted in SEVEN threads in the last FIVE MONTHS.

THREE of them (that's less than HALF) I DIRECTLY responded to HIM in:

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... ht=#286268

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... ht=#286067

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... ht=#286065

ONE of the OTHERS was MY thread where HE made a "pointless and mean spirited comment" to ME (PLEASE NOTE THE QUOTATION MARKS, AND LEARN WHAT QUOTATION MARKS MEAN), to which I did not respond:

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... ht=#284990

TWO of the others we BOTH made posts in that had NOTHING to do with each other.

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... ht=#284995

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... ht=#285888

And ONE of them I've never posted in AT ALL:

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... ht=#285515

So, I'm sorry...what was that you were saying about "any thread"? I inserted pointless and mean spirited comments in ANY thread in which my opponent happens to post?

Guess what: the facts say otherwise.

No, OCD, what this is is a LIE, a MISREPRESENTATION, OCD, because...watch me now....I NEVER SAID THAT.

You don't care about FACTS, about TRUTH. You care ONLY about desperately trying to make ME look bad, and you'll even LIE to do it ("Galileo was murdered." "ZWH said Akuma's got a shadow.") You're doing nothing but smearing, OCD, and you will FULLY FABRICATE things out of THIN AIR, and then attribute them to ME! AMAZING!

You'd make an EXCELLENT politician, but please stop with the lying already.

Of course you are ever mindful not to break too many rules, so that you may stay and continue with your harrassment.

Spin, spin, spin away....

I haven't broken ANY rules, not "too many". NONE.

I think it's harassment to sell these and spit in the face of the community.

By the way....Galileo? Not murdered.

(unless of course your prey falters and breaks a rule, then you retaliate in kind waving the banner of "Fair is fair!!!")

I have yet to break any rules since my "suspension." Nice spin, though.

You clearly do not understand what QUOTATION MARKS mean, and when they're used to make a point. I'll have to speak even MORE plainly to you from now on.

Since you're unaware, let me enlighten you: questioning your intellect, when you clearly haven't understood major portions of statements, questioning your integrity, when you have clearly demonstrated the willingness to lie and invent things to make your opponent look bad....these are not violations of the rules. Yes, indeed, they are PERSONAL, which is what I said I would do if YOU did.

There's debating the MERIT of the subject....there's debating the CHARACTER of the opponent (which is what YOU have engaged in since you joined)...and there's just petty name calling and insults (which is breaking the rules)....

I try VERY hard to stay on the FIRST, but if you wade blindly into the second, I WILL follow, and not break the rules by following anyone into the third.

There. Clear enough for you now?

It's more of an explanation than you deserve or have earned, but then, it's not FOR you.

When you get called on this behavior, you claim the opponent should "attack back".........

No, dear, my comments regading "attack back" were to counter your nonsense that I was "pushing" my opinion by "pushing" your OWN opinions in like way as I do MINE (ie, with REASON and LOGIC, not NONSENSE and EMOTION.)

The reason the word "attack" was in quotes was because it was YOUR word, that YOU used, so I was using YOUR word back AT you so that YOU would understand and grasp the concept. I was ENCOURAGING you to RESPOND with ELOQUENCE and WELL THOUGHT OUT posts, which YOU have interpreted as ATTACKS, not to ACTUALLY ENGAGE in REAL attacks (as you have so skillfully done.)

I didn't realize you aren't capable of understanding the subtleties and not so subtleties of the English language.

Like I said....arguing with you is as frustrating as arguing with a child, because you don't think logically, you lie and invent situations and words that never happened which then have to be countered, and you don't grasp simple concepts like the difference between "responding with WELL THOUGHT OUT, ELOQUENT posts" and "engaging in insult wars."

Why should I or anyone else have to spend thier day attacking in retaliation,

I'll say it once more, because you clearly don't get it....

The word "attack" was in QUOTES for a REASON.

OY.

And no one is holding a gun to your head, forcing you to post. Don't be claiming you're a VICTIM.

when we've broken no rules? You have every right to post your opinions and thoughts, but at some point (oh i dunno,.... 200 times or so.....) it becomes harrassment.

And at what point did YOUR "opinions and thoughts" become harassment? With your very first post.

YOU SHOULD STOP.

SO SHOULD YOU.

If laws or rules were being broken I'd be right there with you buddy, however they are not.

Concept: do you understand WHY laws or rules exist in the first place?

Do you know that laws EXIST because the community identified a situation that was causing undue harm in SOME way, and they wanted to prevent that from happening?

Do you know that laws and rules are only ethical and moral GUIDELINES that have been codified and ratified?

So, to suggest that just because there's no "law" or "rule" being broken that it's fair game, anything goes, is to have a woefully inadequate understanding of laws and rules in the first place.

In other words: just because you have a RIGHT to do it, it doesn't mean it's the RIGHT thing to do. (Now where have I heard that before....?)

So at some point you should shut up,..... Honestly.

What are you, 12? Seriously? Are you 12?

Because that's about the most immature thing I ever see on a message board....someone telling someone ELSE they should "shut up."

I can tell you at what point you should have shut up: at the beginning, before you ever posted.

I've been away for months, and as soon as I come back there you are attacking people.

Gee, what a happy coincidence.

Of course, that statement has no bearing on anything, no relevance to anything, other than to try and imply that I do nothing but "attack" people.

Which, of course, isn't true, isn't honest, and is just another lie by OCD.

And....it's called standing up for what's right.

<shrug>

If what I say nothers you so much, stresses you out so much, either ignore me, or go back to doing whatever it was before you "came back."

In reality, in the 18 or so hours since I voiced my opinion, I've gotten 4 seperate PM's saying "thank you for calling Zephhy on his crap".

Who?

Oh, you must mean me again.

What does saying you've gotten 4 seperate PMs supporting you prove?

You think 4 seperate PMs is going to make me magically say "oh, well, hell, I MUST be wrong, then!"

It doesn't matter if you've gotten 10,000 PMs condemning me, right is still right, and wrong is still wrong.

You know how many PMs I'VE gotten saying "thanks for standing up to Akuma and not letting him get away with this garbage"?

WHO CARES?

I've said it before....if I am hated by the corrupt, then I am doing my job.

What does that tell you? It tells me your constant debating and pontificating are making this little escape from reality "less enjoyable" for a quite a few folks.

This is a bogus argument. It is a bogus and dishonest argument because there are SEVERAL ways that a person doesn't have to deal with things they don't want to see:

1. There is an IGNORE function.

2. There is a BUILT IN THE HUMAN BRAIN ignore function.

3. If one read a thread that upset them, they can NEVER VISIT THAT THREAD AGAIN. There are EXACTLY THREE threads right now, ALL related to this issue, that this "debate" is occuring in. THREE. Out of SEVERAL THOUSAND.

There are THREE.

So, anyone WHINING about how much less "enjoyable" their experience here has been is full of crap. USE IGNORE. Don't visit threads that deal with this.

Does that make you proud? Are you so caught up in this world where you are the champion of right and wrong that you don't care that you are making this place less fun?............ Shallow and sad.

Hey, look, another character judgement about me made by OCD! COOL!

Like I said....NO ONE can LEGITIMATELY whine about this place being LESS fun when there are only THREE threads that are "in dispute", and YOU are the MAJOR cause of that as much as I am.

Does that make you proud? Are you so caught up in this world of defending bad behavior that you don't care that you are making this place less fun?.......Shallow and sad.

Yes I get facts wrong as much as the next guy

No, you get facts wrong FAR MORE than the next guy, and you wholesale INVENT things to "make your point."

, and i spell things wrong, and you can insinuate that I have a limited understanding of countless things over and over,

I don't INSINUATE that you have a limited understanding of things...I STATE it, because you have demonstrated over and over and over again that you don't....and anyone with an ounce of intellectual honesty and discernment recognizes that.

If you can't be bothered to get your facts right, and feel the need to lie and invent things that have never taken place just to make someone look bad, WHAT KIND OF CREDIBILITY DO YOU HAVE???

(heck, I hardly ever use latin phrases, I must be a moron!)

Spin, spin, spin, irrelevant spin.

but the spirit of my message is still true and shared by quite a few members.

The spirit of your message is crap, and DISAGREED with by quite a few members.

You should stop harrassing people.

You should stop justifying and rationalizing bad behavior. And you should stop harassing people.

Call it debating, upholding community standards, even championing the "taken advantage of", but at this point it amounts to nothing more than board killing, fun stealing droning.

And I'm sorry....what is it that you're doing right here?

I'm sure you enjoy these little debates as I've not seen much evidence that there is much more to your life than comics, dogs, work, and arguing with complete strangers.

Let's correct a couple MORE misconceptions, here:

1. You have no clue about my life, other than what I choose to make public on this board. It is the HEIGHT of presumptive arrogance to make claims like this. To make implications about my life, when you have no clue what my life is about, is idiotic at best. Do I make implications about YOUR life? Do I sit here and say "I've not seen much evidence that there is much more to your life than inventing lies about people you don't like on the internet to make yourself feel good, and you like to watch granny porn" do I?

Of course not. I wouldn't presume to make such an ignorant statement like that.

When are you going to stop with the personal attacks, OCD? Do you understand how incredibly stupid and uneducated making comments on the INTERNETabout someone's REAL LIFE, when you have spent ZERO time with them in REAL LIFE, makes you look?

2. Your claim that these are is a "complete stranger" reveals the depths to which you have no damn clue what this board is about. YOU may be a complete stranger to everyone here, but I most certainly am not, and neither are a TON of other folks here. We've BROKEN BREAD together, and it doesn't get much NON "complete stranger" than that.

I don't say that to be mean,

Don't think ANYONE is fooled by that lie.

There's no reason to say something as idiotic and ignorant, other than to *SQUEE* off your opponent.

What POSSIBLE relevance does that statement, which you have ZERO credibility making, have to do with ANY of this?

NONE.

It was said solely to *SQUEE* me off.

It's a DAMN good thing I learned how to see through mind games like this YEARS ago.

it's sad that can't see that all these little victories

Why are you lying again?

Why, OCD?

Why do you insist on lying?

Is it a compulsion?

What part of "THIS ISN'T A CONTEST" don't you understand?

you imaginge on the screen are petty and pointless. Especially when weighed against the results, which are at best distracting and at worst, a good reason for members to dread coming here to talk about thier hobby with friends.

Crap. This is absolute bullsheist. THREE threads out of THOUSANDS are affected by this "debate."

THREE.

Anyone who sees this debate CHOOSES to see this debate.

STOP....LYING...OCD.

Now go ahead and pick these scentences apart ignoring the meaning behind them,

I could make a silly quip about your inability to comprehend ANY meaning, but I won't. The reality is, as is clear to anyone with an intellect, is that no one is "ignoring" the meaning behind anything you say, OCD. The reality is, you've lied....you've misrepresented....you've invented things out of thin air, and then attributed them to me...you've done everything you possibly could to discredit ME, so it is absolutely no surprise that you would say something as trite and utterly without merit as "pick these sentences apart ignoring the meaning behind them"....what does that even mean, OCD?

CLEARLY I understand what you have said, because I've answered every one of your points one by one by one.

So, if I don't get "the meaning" behind your sentences....MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE YOU AREN'T SAYING WHAT YOU MEAN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Or....maybe it's just because you are dishonest, and don't really mean ANYTHING. The simple fact is, I SHRED your arguments left and right, which is WHY you don't revisit them. I destroy your "arguments" with logic, reason, FACT, and rationality, which is why you CANNOT take me on point by point: it would reveal your weakness.

Instead, you just reply with more ad hominem attack, because that's ALL YOU CAN DO. You HAVE no logic, you HAVE no substance, you CANNOT debate me point by point, so you just type ONE pontificating "response" after ANOTHER, and address NONE of the points that I brought up in ANY previous post!

That's not DEBATE! That's YOU being a politician and ignoring the questions!

So. Enough's enough, OCD. Let it go. You're only making this place less fun for everyone else.

(Double edged swords are funny like that...they cut both ways.)

[Chiclo]

My people (rednecks) have a saying -

Don't wrestle a pig in the mud. You'll never win and the pig enjoys it.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Did anybody notice that on page 7 EVERY single post (bar one from Depluto) was by Zeph? Thats gotta be some kind of record/ achievement?? Has that been done before??

Yeah, that's been done all the time.

Go read the "one word post" thread.

[DawgPhan]

I'd like to take a quick moment to publicly thank Zephhy,

Who?

for staying true to form.

Oh, you mean ME....well, you're welcome!

As I predicted, he exerted an inordinate amount of energy Nit Picking, eveylittle detail of my posts. Succeeding yet again in ignoring the actual meaning of them.

Tell me something...if there are "little details" about your posts that aren't important, that are irrelevant, and not worthy of discussing...why make them? Since when is "eveylittle detail" in a debate not worth commenting on? In fact, exactly the opposite is true. Every LITTLE detail is where people usually like to hide. I expose "eveylittle detail" so that people can't hide behind them. That's Debate 101.

And I'm sorry, an "inordinate amount of energy" was "exerted" by me?

Well, hey, typing messages on a message board may be difficult for you, but not for me.

Funny how he can scribble on at length about what makes each scentence written by someone who disaggrees with him wrong, wrong, wrong. Yet cannot comment on the overall point of the debate. The one that goes somthing like this:

Clearly, you didn't read a thing I wrote, because the entire RESPONSE was a comment on the "overall point" of the debate.

You consistantly harass people who are acting well within thier rights.

Oh, I see...now we're typing in different colors for effect.

I really wish you'd let this piece of fluff go. No one is contesting that it's not his RIGHT to do it. Never. Not once. It's UNcontested.

So why do you keep bringing it up? Because you have nothing else to stand on?

Interfering with sales,

Are you aware that I have no access to Akuma's PMs? Are you also aware that I have no ability to intercept or delete any PMs that Akuma receives? Are you also aware that Akuma said, in his first post, to "PM me with offers"? Since I do not possess EITHER of those abilities, that I cannot, by definition, "interfere" with sales?

Any of that? Any of it sinking in?

Well, I suppose I should be happy you dropped that lie about it being an auction. I'll take 'em where I can get 'em.

trying to sway opinion over and over again,

Of course...which is exactly what YOU are now trying to do, and have a RIGHT to do, just like everyone else. DUH.

derailing threads,

On THIS board? Are you KIDDING? Derailing is not only NOT a sin, NOT a crime, it is an ARTFORM on THIS board. People are not only ALLOWED to derail, they are ENCOURAGED.

inserting pointless and mean spirited comments in any thread where your opponent happens to post. ("Akuma's got a shadow")

I'm sorry, but please point me to where I said "Akuma's got a shadow."

I'm waiting.

Got it yet?

Here:

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... ht=#286067

Read it again, OCD. You clearly missed it the first time.

And please tell me what is "mean spirited and pointless" about saying "Go for it" is "mean" and "pointless"? When I want my friend chainnball to GET a sale? Please....what's mean and pointless about "go for it"?

And let's insert another fact into your false information up there: Akuma has posted in SEVEN threads in the last FIVE MONTHS.

THREE of them (that's less than HALF) I DIRECTLY responded to HIM in:

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... ht=#286268

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... ht=#286067

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... ht=#286065

ONE of the OTHERS was MY thread where HE made a "pointless and mean spirited comment" to ME (PLEASE NOTE THE QUOTATION MARKS, AND LEARN WHAT QUOTATION MARKS MEAN), to which I did not respond:

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... ht=#284990

TWO of the others we BOTH made posts in that had NOTHING to do with each other.

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... ht=#284995

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... ht=#285888

And ONE of them I've never posted in AT ALL:

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... ht=#285515

So, I'm sorry...what was that you were saying about "any thread"? I inserted pointless and mean spirited comments in ANY thread in which my opponent happens to post?

Guess what: the facts say otherwise.

No, OCD, what this is is a LIE, a MISREPRESENTATION, OCD, because...watch me now....I NEVER SAID THAT.

You don't care about FACTS, about TRUTH. You care ONLY about desperately trying to make ME look bad, and you'll even LIE to do it ("Galileo was murdered." "ZWH said Akuma's got a shadow.") You're doing nothing but smearing, OCD, and you will FULLY FABRICATE things out of THIN AIR, and then attribute them to ME! AMAZING!

You'd make an EXCELLENT politician, but please stop with the lying already.

Of course you are ever mindful not to break too many rules, so that you may stay and continue with your harrassment.

Spin, spin, spin away....

I haven't broken ANY rules, not "too many". NONE.

I think it's harassment to sell these and spit in the face of the community.

By the way....Galileo? Not murdered.

(unless of course your prey falters and breaks a rule, then you retaliate in kind waving the banner of "Fair is fair!!!")

I have yet to break any rules since my "suspension." Nice spin, though.

You clearly do not understand what QUOTATION MARKS mean, and when they're used to make a point. I'll have to speak even MORE plainly to you from now on.

Since you're unaware, let me enlighten you: questioning your intellect, when you clearly haven't understood major portions of statements, questioning your integrity, when you have clearly demonstrated the willingness to lie and invent things to make your opponent look bad....these are not violations of the rules. Yes, indeed, they are PERSONAL, which is what I said I would do if YOU did.

There's debating the MERIT of the subject....there's debating the CHARACTER of the opponent (which is what YOU have engaged in since you joined)...and there's just petty name calling and insults (which is breaking the rules)....

I try VERY hard to stay on the FIRST, but if you wade blindly into the second, I WILL follow, and not break the rules by following anyone into the third.

There. Clear enough for you now?

It's more of an explanation than you deserve or have earned, but then, it's not FOR you.

When you get called on this behavior, you claim the opponent should "attack back".........

No, dear, my comments regading "attack back" were to counter your nonsense that I was "pushing" my opinion by "pushing" your OWN opinions in like way as I do MINE (ie, with REASON and LOGIC, not NONSENSE and EMOTION.)

The reason the word "attack" was in quotes was because it was YOUR word, that YOU used, so I was using YOUR word back AT you so that YOU would understand and grasp the concept. I was ENCOURAGING you to RESPOND with ELOQUENCE and WELL THOUGHT OUT posts, which YOU have interpreted as ATTACKS, not to ACTUALLY ENGAGE in REAL attacks (as you have so skillfully done.)

I didn't realize you aren't capable of understanding the subtleties and not so subtleties of the English language.

Like I said....arguing with you is as frustrating as arguing with a child, because you don't think logically, you lie and invent situations and words that never happened which then have to be countered, and you don't grasp simple concepts like the difference between "responding with WELL THOUGHT OUT, ELOQUENT posts" and "engaging in insult wars."

Why should I or anyone else have to spend thier day attacking in retaliation,

I'll say it once more, because you clearly don't get it....

The word "attack" was in QUOTES for a REASON.

OY.

And no one is holding a gun to your head, forcing you to post. Don't be claiming you're a VICTIM.

when we've broken no rules? You have every right to post your opinions and thoughts, but at some point (oh i dunno,.... 200 times or so.....) it becomes harrassment.

And at what point did YOUR "opinions and thoughts" become harassment? With your very first post.

YOU SHOULD STOP.

SO SHOULD YOU.

If laws or rules were being broken I'd be right there with you buddy, however they are not.

Concept: do you understand WHY laws or rules exist in the first place?

Do you know that laws EXIST because the community identified a situation that was causing undue harm in SOME way, and they wanted to prevent that from happening?

Do you know that laws and rules are only ethical and moral GUIDELINES that have been codified and ratified?

So, to suggest that just because there's no "law" or "rule" being broken that it's fair game, anything goes, is to have a woefully inadequate understanding of laws and rules in the first place.

In other words: just because you have a RIGHT to do it, it doesn't mean it's the RIGHT thing to do. (Now where have I heard that before....?)

So at some point you should shut up,..... Honestly.

What are you, 12? Seriously? Are you 12?

Because that's about the most immature thing I ever see on a message board....someone telling someone ELSE they should "shut up."

I can tell you at what point you should have shut up: at the beginning, before you ever posted.

I've been away for months, and as soon as I come back there you are attacking people.

Gee, what a happy coincidence.

Of course, that statement has no bearing on anything, no relevance to anything, other than to try and imply that I do nothing but "attack" people.

Which, of course, isn't true, isn't honest, and is just another lie by OCD.

And....it's called standing up for what's right.

<shrug>

If what I say nothers you so much, stresses you out so much, either ignore me, or go back to doing whatever it was before you "came back."

In reality, in the 18 or so hours since I voiced my opinion, I've gotten 4 seperate PM's saying "thank you for calling Zephhy on his crap".

Who?

Oh, you must mean me again.

What does saying you've gotten 4 seperate PMs supporting you prove?

You think 4 seperate PMs is going to make me magically say "oh, well, hell, I MUST be wrong, then!"

It doesn't matter if you've gotten 10,000 PMs condemning me, right is still right, and wrong is still wrong.

You know how many PMs I'VE gotten saying "thanks for standing up to Akuma and not letting him get away with this garbage"?

WHO CARES?

I've said it before....if I am hated by the corrupt, then I am doing my job.

What does that tell you? It tells me your constant debating and pontificating are making this little escape from reality "less enjoyable" for a quite a few folks.

This is a bogus argument. It is a bogus and dishonest argument because there are SEVERAL ways that a person doesn't have to deal with things they don't want to see:

1. There is an IGNORE function.

2. There is a BUILT IN THE HUMAN BRAIN ignore function.

3. If one read a thread that upset them, they can NEVER VISIT THAT THREAD AGAIN. There are EXACTLY THREE threads right now, ALL related to this issue, that this "debate" is occuring in. THREE. Out of SEVERAL THOUSAND.

There are THREE.

So, anyone WHINING about how much less "enjoyable" their experience here has been is full of crap. USE IGNORE. Don't visit threads that deal with this.

Does that make you proud? Are you so caught up in this world where you are the champion of right and wrong that you don't care that you are making this place less fun?............ Shallow and sad.

Hey, look, another character judgement about me made by OCD! COOL!

Like I said....NO ONE can LEGITIMATELY whine about this place being LESS fun when there are only THREE threads that are "in dispute", and YOU are the MAJOR cause of that as much as I am.

Does that make you proud? Are you so caught up in this world of defending bad behavior that you don't care that you are making this place less fun?.......Shallow and sad.

Yes I get facts wrong as much as the next guy

No, you get facts wrong FAR MORE than the next guy, and you wholesale INVENT things to "make your point."

, and i spell things wrong, and you can insinuate that I have a limited understanding of countless things over and over,

I don't INSINUATE that you have a limited understanding of things...I STATE it, because you have demonstrated over and over and over again that you don't....and anyone with an ounce of intellectual honesty and discernment recognizes that.

If you can't be bothered to get your facts right, and feel the need to lie and invent things that have never taken place just to make someone look bad, WHAT KIND OF CREDIBILITY DO YOU HAVE???

(heck, I hardly ever use latin phrases, I must be a moron!)

Spin, spin, spin, irrelevant spin.

but the spirit of my message is still true and shared by quite a few members.

The spirit of your message is crap, and DISAGREED with by quite a few members.

You should stop harrassing people.

You should stop justifying and rationalizing bad behavior. And you should stop harassing people.

Call it debating, upholding community standards, even championing the "taken advantage of", but at this point it amounts to nothing more than board killing, fun stealing droning.

And I'm sorry....what is it that you're doing right here?

I'm sure you enjoy these little debates as I've not seen much evidence that there is much more to your life than comics, dogs, work, and arguing with complete strangers.

Let's correct a couple MORE misconceptions, here:

1. You have no clue about my life, other than what I choose to make public on this board. It is the HEIGHT of presumptive arrogance to make claims like this. To make implications about my life, when you have no clue what my life is about, is idiotic at best. Do I make implications about YOUR life? Do I sit here and say "I've not seen much evidence that there is much more to your life than inventing lies about people you don't like on the internet to make yourself feel good, and you like to watch granny porn" do I?

Of course not. I wouldn't presume to make such an ignorant statement like that.

When are you going to stop with the personal attacks, OCD? Do you understand how incredibly stupid and uneducated making comments on the INTERNETabout someone's REAL LIFE, when you have spent ZERO time with them in REAL LIFE, makes you look?

2. Your claim that these are is a "complete stranger" reveals the depths to which you have no damn clue what this board is about. YOU may be a complete stranger to everyone here, but I most certainly am not, and neither are a TON of other folks here. We've BROKEN BREAD together, and it doesn't get much NON "complete stranger" than that.

I don't say that to be mean,

Don't think ANYONE is fooled by that lie.

There's no reason to say something as idiotic and ignorant, other than to *SQUEE* off your opponent.

What POSSIBLE relevance does that statement, which you have ZERO credibility making, have to do with ANY of this?

NONE.

It was said solely to *SQUEE* me off.

It's a DAMN good thing I learned how to see through mind games like this YEARS ago.

it's sad that can't see that all these little victories

Why are you lying again?

Why, OCD?

Why do you insist on lying?

Is it a compulsion?

What part of "THIS ISN'T A CONTEST" don't you understand?

you imaginge on the screen are petty and pointless. Especially when weighed against the results, which are at best distracting and at worst, a good reason for members to dread coming here to talk about thier hobby with friends.

Crap. This is absolute bullsheist. THREE threads out of THOUSANDS are affected by this "debate."

THREE.

Anyone who sees this debate CHOOSES to see this debate.

STOP....LYING...OCD.

Now go ahead and pick these scentences apart ignoring the meaning behind them,

I could make a silly quip about your inability to comprehend ANY meaning, but I won't. The reality is, as is clear to anyone with an intellect, is that no one is "ignoring" the meaning behind anything you say, OCD. The reality is, you've lied....you've misrepresented....you've invented things out of thin air, and then attributed them to me...you've done everything you possibly could to discredit ME, so it is absolutely no surprise that you would say something as trite and utterly without merit as "pick these sentences apart ignoring the meaning behind them"....what does that even mean, OCD?

CLEARLY I understand what you have said, because I've answered every one of your points one by one by one.

So, if I don't get "the meaning" behind your sentences....MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE YOU AREN'T SAYING WHAT YOU MEAN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Or....maybe it's just because you are dishonest, and don't really mean ANYTHING. The simple fact is, I SHRED your arguments left and right, which is WHY you don't revisit them. I destroy your "arguments" with logic, reason, FACT, and rationality, which is why you CANNOT take me on point by point: it would reveal your weakness.

Instead, you just reply with more ad hominem attack, because that's ALL YOU CAN DO. You HAVE no logic, you HAVE no substance, you CANNOT debate me point by point, so you just type ONE pontificating "response" after ANOTHER, and address NONE of the points that I brought up in ANY previous post!

That's not DEBATE! That's YOU being a politician and ignoring the questions!

So. Enough's enough, OCD. Let it go. You're only making this place less fun for everyone else.

(Double edged swords are funny like that...they cut both ways.)

I just had to quote this because it is impressive...

[Ricomortis]

Well... you know what I have to say on the subject.

*SQUEE* YOU ALL!

Rico"most friendly poster in valiant world"Mortis

[Valiant OCD]

Hey Zeppy,

Congrats on all that great shredding of my arguments! And thanks again for staying true to form.

I like the fact that you made the lie thing in a bigger font, that way it's easier for simpletons such as myself to grasp the concept. (ps: I promise to take some time this weekend and figure out those pesky KWOTASHUN marks..........)

Unfortunately, as childish as it maybe I still think you shoud shut up on this matter. Sorry, i guess I'm just a kid at heart. (BTW, since you consider me so childish, and calling me "dear" all the time, does that explain the NAMBLA thing?........)

I'm not sure how I was hiding behind the details, when I pretty much stated that all the little details were unimportant in my opinion. They'll never change the fact that you are a fun killing distraction to quite few of the people on this board.

Let me clear so you can grasp this. (maybe it was too long last time....) We all know how you feel about selling VcVSS's for profit. Trust me. The fact is, your opinion is not all that important to a bunch of us. So since were all on the same page, with pros and cons weighed, I've thought it out, and in my opinion you should shut up about it now.

Clear now?

I know it must irk you to know that someone else isn't impressed with amazing debating skills. (BTW, I am also very relieved that you've learned to control you formidable rage and see through con men like me.... whew!!! a close one!!!) But the simple fact is you can't change the truth with debate. Like you said right is right and wrong is wrong, and in my opinion, the right thing would be that you shut up now.

Seems to me that since I've seen your arguments on this subject innumerable times, more than three threads are affected. Also at least 5 members are tired of your bullying, and pseudo intellectual garbage (gee I hope thats not latin.....). How many need to speak up before the tide turns on the community standard thing? I need a number here. Let me know and I'll start the petiton. Kay?

In closing, I'd like to say that the funniest thig I've seen so far is how much energy you put into your little tirades. I mean BRAVO! All your facts in order, links at hand, numbers dates, time zones, inside leg measurements ect..... wow that must be exhausting. But you should still think about shutting up...... IMHO

[mavros]

I have yet to break any rules since my "suspension." Nice spin, though.

You clearly do not understand what QUOTATION MARKS mean, and when they're used to make a point. I'll have to speak even MORE plainly to you from now on.

Since you're unaware, let me enlighten you: questioning your intellect, when you clearly haven't understood major portions of statements, questioning your integrity, when you have clearly demonstrated the willingness to lie and invent things to make your opponent look bad....these are not violations of the rules. Yes, indeed, they are PERSONAL, which is what I said I would do if YOU did.

There's debating the MERIT of the subject....there's debating the CHARACTER of the opponent (which is what YOU have engaged in since you joined)...and there's just petty name calling and insults (which is breaking the rules)....

I try VERY hard to stay on the FIRST, but if you wade blindly into the second, I WILL follow, and not break the rules by following anyone into the third.

There. Clear enough for you now?

It's more of an explanation than you deserve or have earned, but then, it's not FOR you.

Now THAT is some SPIN.

Let's review the comments that were the cause of the previous suspension:

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/docs/p ... emarks.txt

Now how many times have the same remarks been made in a NUMBER of flares up with a NUMBER of other board members since ZWH's suspension was lifted?

And let's not pretend that this occurs ONLY because the other members 'started it' when you end up with backhanded "compliments" like this:

No, because I think you're a better person than Steverino. I didn't even give it a second thought that it might OFFEND you, or I wouldn't have done it, as I wouldn't do it in a Steverino thread....or a Vault-Keeper thread....or a Mavros thread....or a Knightt thread.....

[ viewtopic.php?t=4807&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25 ]

Argue it was taken out of context. It was. But can anyone show me where any of those members mentioned in his post were involved in that topic at any point in time?

But I always do have the option to place him on ignore, as he felt free to tell a new member here who expressed hesistancy to post because of threads like these (is there a way we can make this an automatic setting for all new members?)
[ viewtopic.php?t=14495&start=0 ]

But then, when he finds out later CKB hasn't replied to him in another thread because of being put on ignore [ viewtopic.php?t=14436&start=25 ], and CKB makes light of another backhanded "compliment", CKB ends up being told he was being overestimated (Translation: you are an idiot).

The real fact of the matter isn't that ZWH hasn't broken the rules. He has. The only thing that hasn't happened yet is his suspension.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

I have yet to break any rules since my "suspension." Nice spin, though.

You clearly do not understand what QUOTATION MARKS mean, and when they're used to make a point. I'll have to speak even MORE plainly to you from now on.

Since you're unaware, let me enlighten you: questioning your intellect, when you clearly haven't understood major portions of statements, questioning your integrity, when you have clearly demonstrated the willingness to lie and invent things to make your opponent look bad....these are not violations of the rules. Yes, indeed, they are PERSONAL, which is what I said I would do if YOU did.

There's debating the MERIT of the subject....there's debating the CHARACTER of the opponent (which is what YOU have engaged in since you joined)...and there's just petty name calling and insults (which is breaking the rules)....

I try VERY hard to stay on the FIRST, but if you wade blindly into the second, I WILL follow, and not break the rules by following anyone into the third.

There. Clear enough for you now?

It's more of an explanation than you deserve or have earned, but then, it's not FOR you.

Now THAT is some SPIN.

No, not really. But thanks for joining the fray.

Let's review the comments that were the cause of the previous suspension:

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/docs/p ... emarks.txt

Now how many times have the same remarks been made in a NUMBER of flares up with a NUMBER of other board members since ZWH's suspension was lifted?

I dispute the validity of the previous suspension, because you should have been suspended as well.

YOU were guilty of "baiting" just as much as I.

And let's not pretend that this occurs ONLY because the other members 'started it' when you end up with backhanded "compliments" like this:

No, because I think you're a better person than Steverino. I didn't even give it a second thought that it might OFFEND you, or I wouldn't have done it, as I wouldn't do it in a Steverino thread....or a Vault-Keeper thread....or a Mavros thread....or a Knightt thread.....

[ viewtopic.php?t=4807&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25 ]

Argue it was taken out of context. It was. But can anyone show me where any of those members mentioned in his post were involved in that topic at any point in time?

They weren't. They were used as an illustration to make a point. It is entirely taken out of context. Let's shed some light upon that exchange, shall we?

I wouldn't "poke fun" in one of your threads, because you and I have history. That wasn't an insult. That wasn't breaking ANY rule. I say then, as I say now: I would NOT poke fun in a MAVROS thread, because it would be RECEIVED POORLY, and could ONLY be interpreted by YOU as hostile.

Do you deny that?

How on EARTH you perceive that as an "insult" is ANYBODY'S guess.

That was pointing out that I wouldn't goof around in one of your threads, because you wouldn't take it in the good natured light it was intended, as I assumed (incorrectly) that Slym would.

How, then, is that some sort of "example" of me "breaking the rules."?

So...next example?

But I always do have the option to place him on ignore, as he felt free to tell a new member here who expressed hesistancy to post because of threads like these (is there a way we can make this an automatic setting for all new members?)
[ viewtopic.php?t=14495&start=0 ]

EVERYONE has the option to ignore, instead of, as you have done here, jumping into the fray.

YOU should feel free to tell anyone who doesn't like you to ignore you, too. It's the adult thing to do, after all. I told that poster, as I tell you....if you don't like what someone is saying, don't pick a fight with them (as you are now), and don't let it be a reflection on the rest of the board (as I told him)....just IGNORE. No one is FORCED to read posts by people that bother them, or threads that bother them. So the MATURE thing to do is just IGNORE.

Having a hesitancy to post because of "threads like these" not only is a poor excuse, it completely ignores Greg's "new users" post, wherein he gives INSTRUCTIONS for new users to get along well. "Threads like these" are a VAST, VAST minority of all the threads on this board.

So why do you post this sarcastic bit of troublemaking?

Why, then, do you insist on jumping into the fray?

What is your motive, if not to stir up the situation and cause trouble?

I believe your ultimate goal is to goad me into getting kicked off the boards. Am I wrong?

But then, when he finds out later CKB hasn't replied to him in another thread because of being put on ignore [ viewtopic.php?t=14436&start=25 ], and CKB makes light of another backhanded "compliment", CKB ends up being told he was being overestimated (Translation: you are an idiot).

I paid a compliment to CKB. I showed CKB RESPECT for him and his opinions. I then discovered very shortly after that not only did that not matter, but it was a waste of effort to begin with.

I retracted my compliment. Silly me.

Still didn't call him an idiot, despite your "translation".

The real fact of the matter isn't that ZWH hasn't broken the rules. He has. The only thing that hasn't happened yet is his suspension.

No, I haven't. But good try!

And always remember this, Mavros: whether or not Greg suspends you, or ever suspends you, understand that you earned a suspension. You earned a suspension THEN, and you've earned it NOW.

By the way....this? This getting involved in the "debate" to sling mud?

That's called "baiting." And it's against the rules.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Hey Zeppy,

Who?

Congrats on all that great shredding of my arguments! And thanks again for staying true to form.

You bet, although I think you put more weight on this "true to form" bit than is healthy.

I like the fact that you made the lie thing in a bigger font, that way it's easier for simpletons such as myself to grasp the concept. (ps: I promise to take some time this weekend and figure out those pesky KWOTASHUN marks..........)

OCD: it was a lie. It was a fabrication. It was meant to make me look bad.

Why spin it any other way?

Unfortunately, as childish as it maybe I still think you shoud shut up on this matter.

And I, you. Why don't you go first...?

Sorry, i guess I'm just a kid at heart. (BTW, since you consider me so childish, and calling me "dear" all the time, does that explain the NAMBLA thing?........)

NICE....hadn't thought of that one....mad props for the backhand over the rim insult!

I'm not sure how I was hiding behind the details, when I pretty much stated that all the little details were unimportant in my opinion. They'll never change the fact that you are a fun killing distraction to quite few of the people on this board.

Once more: you're just as much of a fun killer as I am; and no one is forced to read anything I write.

Why this is so difficult for you to grasp, I'll never know.

But please try!

As far as "quite a few"...I'll let that little hyperbole go, and state that I'm just as much, if not MORE, of a fun MAKER with my responses to quite a few MORE people.

Let me clear so you can grasp this. (maybe it was too long last time....) We all know how you feel about selling VcVSS's for profit. Trust me. The fact is, your opinion is not all that important to a bunch of us.

Well, there's a big "duh". Clearly.

So since were all on the same page, with pros and cons weighed, I've thought it out, and in my opinion you should shut up about it now.

As should you. (You might not have noticed that we haven't REALLY been talking about the VcVSS....not REALLY...for a couple of posts now. )

Clear now?

Crystal!

I know it must irk you to know that someone else isn't impressed with amazing debating skills.

You know nothing of the sort, other than you're projecting your own ego onto me.

Here's a clue, which should have been abundantly clear a long time ago: I don't care what you think about my "amazing debating skills."

The fact that I can defeat your "points" with logic, reason, and rationality is all that matters to me.

As far as what YOU think of ME? Don't care.

Clearly.

(BTW, I am also very relieved that you've learned to control you formidable rage and see through con men like me.... whew!!! a close one!!!)

Formidable rage? What, you got the Hulk locked up inside there with you?

But the simple fact is you can't change the truth with debate. Like you said right is right and wrong is wrong, and in my opinion, the right thing would be that you shut up now.

And in my opinion, the right thing would be that YOU shut up now.

There. Aren't we the mature grown ups.

I can't change the truth with debate, but I CAN persuade minds.

Go me!

Seems to me that since I've seen your arguments on this subject innumerable times, more than three threads are affected.

No, just three. Those other threads are months, if not years old, and are long gone.

(I could make a quip about not being able to count and "innumerable", but I won't. )

Also at least 5 members are tired of your bullying,

Bullying? You mean, on a forum where everyone has the equal ability to say what's on their minds, in any fashion they see fit, and can post an equal number of times, and respond as much as they want, in any way, without fear of someone editing or removing their words, you think there's "bullying"?

Are you kidding?

The ONLY...and I mean the ONLY....person on these boards with the ABILITY to bully ANYONE is Greg....and he doesn't do it very often.

Are you just afraid of the truth of what I say, and perceive THAT as "bullying"?

No, the only people who place the tag of "bully" on others in a completely equal environment are those who are intimidated by what the other person is saying.

Sorry. Doesn't work here.

and pseudo intellectual garbage (gee I hope thats not latin.....).

Logic and reason are "pseudo intellectual garbage."

Ok.

But which is it? You SAID I was intelligent, but now I'm not?

Again....being intimidated by what I have to say doesn't equal me being a bully, nor does it equate to pseudo intellectual garbage.

How many need to speak up before the tide turns on the community standard thing? I need a number here. Let me know and I'll start the petiton. Kay?

Not relevant. Already discussed and dismissed.

But by all means, if you want to start a petition on "How Many People Can't Stand ZWH And Want Him Gone" by ALL means...it wouldn't be the first time on these boards.

In closing, I'd like to say that the funniest thig I've seen so far is how much energy you put into your little tirades. I mean BRAVO! All your facts in order, links at hand, numbers dates, time zones, inside leg measurements ect..... wow that must be exhausting.

Dear God, no. Being honest and accurate is a PLEASURE. Not letting people say things about you that aren't true is a GOOD thing.

But you should still think about shutting up...... IMHO

I think you should, too.

Now watch as Greg dumps this into TO and says "*I* have the last word" and I'll be gone.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Now how many times have the same remarks been made in a NUMBER of flares up with a NUMBER of other board members since ZWH's suspension was lifted?

And in the interest of keeping mavros honest, there have been TWO "flareups" since my suspension was lifted.

One with Steverino, which was instigated by him, and this one.

The Solar HC doesn't count, because it was a n00b vacuum cleaner salesman.

How that translates to a NUMBER of "flares up" with a NUMBER of other board members, I don't know, but it's certainly not honest.

Any hyperbole to make the point, I guess.

And I say this again: it always takes TWO (or more) to have a "flare up."

Trying DESPERATELY to make me look like a troublemaker isn't honest, mavros.

[X-O HoboJoe]

You guys just want baiting lite.

Here's REAL baiting: