Life Without Solar

[Second_Death]

Assuming Phil Seleski is available to VEI, the red tights are not necessary. Correct me if wrong but I don't believe Seleski appeared in the tights until issue #5.

[user1463]

Assuming Phil Seleski is available to VEI, the red tights are not necessary. Correct me if wrong but I don't believe Seleski appeared in the tights until issue #5.

A guy in a red suit did pop out of old universe Phil's head in #2, but I think you are correct in that this "Dr. Solar" was not "a full fledged Phil."

And I agree, Phil can drop the tights and not miss a beat. It might hurt his chances of getting his own comic again but that never stopped Harada from being a major player in the Valiant universe.

Oh, and I think Harbinger and X-O Manowar are best bet cornerstones for a new VH1 Universe.

[ManofTheAtom]

Assuming Phil Seleski is available to VEI, the red tights are not necessary. Correct me if wrong but I don't believe Seleski appeared in the tights until issue #5.

A guy in a red suit did pop out of old universe Phil's head in #2, but I think you are correct in that this "Dr. Solar" was not "a full fledged Phil."

And I agree, Phil can drop the tights and not miss a beat. It might hurt his chances of getting his own comic again but that never stopped Harada from being a major player in the Valiant universe.

Oh, and I think Harbinger and X-O Manowar are best bet cornerstones for a new VH1 Universe.

I agree with the last sentiment about Harbinger and X-O, but far as Phil goes I don't think he works without Solar.

Phil was a fanboy who dreamt of becoming Solar. Take that away, and you take out what makes the character who he is.

Solar to Phil is like the bat through the window for Bruce Wayne.

[user1463]

Phil was a fanboy who dreamt of becoming Solar. Take that away, and you take out what makes the character who he is.

Solar to Phil is like the bat through the window for Bruce Wayne.

I think Phil (for the sake of copyright issues) can evolve to a point where he doesn't need a mask covering his face and a symbol on his chest. I don't think it would betray his character at all. Bruce for that matter too, if he still wasn't marketed to pre-teens.

Of course, Phil could always be wearing an ominous undershirt ala Welling in Smallville.

[ManofTheAtom]

Phil was a fanboy who dreamt of becoming Solar. Take that away, and you take out what makes the character who he is.

Solar to Phil is like the bat through the window for Bruce Wayne.

I think Phil (for the sake of copyright issues) can evolve to a point where he doesn't need a mask covering his face and a symbol on his chest. I don't think it would betray his character at all. Bruce for that matter too, if he still wasn't marketed to pre-teens.

Of course, Phil could always be wearing an ominous undershirt ala Welling in Smallville.

Heh.

Well, the problem with Phil "evolving" out of his Solar persona is akin to the saying "when I was a child, I thought like a child, when I became a man I thought like a man".

Phil is a child at heart who believes in the magic of comic books. He believed in it so much that he turned himself into a super hero and ended up creating a world of superheroes and villains in the process.

If Phil were to let go of the Solar persona, that be like a child who lets go of his childhood to become a man.

[user1463]

Sounds like you just outlined a plot to a groovy zero issue in the revived VH1 Universe.

[ManofTheAtom]

Sounds like you just outlined a plot to a groovy zero issue in the revived VH1 Universe.

Heh

[IanAlexavier]

I, too, like the idea of WOTA...

Hey, this could have happen at the same time Phils 'Wish machine' did the magic on Phil!!

The good Erica could have been trapped somewhere?? Lost Land?? Im sure someone can come up with a good answer to where she has been hiding, or been kept captive.

We should be given free books if we are writing them, right

[ManofTheAtom]

Heh

[user1463]

The whole "good Erica" thing reminds me of Infinity Crusade.

[ManofTheAtom]

Good Erica?

I'd like to see a new story with Erica and Albert while they were in hiding.

Those two are still out there, somewhere in the world, waiting for the time to leave the natural flow of time and travel to the Lost Land.

You know, that puts Secret Weapons #1 in a new light.

In Secret Weapons #1, Master Darque created Doctor Eclipse to free Erica from the wormhole Solar put her in. Obviously he was unsuccessful.

Why didn't it ever occur to Darque to simply find the Erica Pierce that existed in the natural flow of time before she became Mothergod?

He could have used a tracking spell to find her.

Moron, lol

[MirkoCroCop]

<sniff>

A Valiant without Solar is... I don't even want to think about it!

it's not a life I want to live..

[BloodOfHeroes]

Why didn't it ever occur to Darque to simply find the Erica Pierce that existed in the natural flow of time before she became Mothergod?

He could have used a tracking spell to find her.

Moron, lol

1) I didn't think he knew it was Pierce. Didn't he believe it was a "demon" the whole time?

2) In the 20th century, she wasn't strong enough (for a variety of reasons) to begin Unity. Maybe that could be used as a factor? Phil would've mopped the floor with her. And of course

3) Unity told us that she'd successfully been in hiding the whole time. Kinda hard to give her big, powerful universe-affecting adventures, when Shooter had decreed otherwise...

BoH

[TKWill]

Life Without Solar

He just went to Hawai'i, he'll be back before we know it.

[SnotDrip]

I don't think I will miss Solar in a relaunched Valiant U. With a flick of a thought he can/could/did change the whole universe so what would be the point of a continuity line with other characters if he can just simply make all the "bad" or evil characters "go away" in a flash. A very tough character/story line to write indeed IMHO...

X-O and Harbinger would be the way to go.

my thoughts

[cjv]

Good Erica?

Good Erica would simply be a schizo splitting of Erica Pierce, one into the "Mothergod" persona, one into the "good guy" persona. Unless you believe that Erica was ALL evil, then there could be a sane Erica Pierce that popped out of the insane Erica's head - much like Dr. SOlar popped out of Phil in the early Solar issues, or the Destroyer came out in later issues.

You know, that could also be used to explain Unity to some degree. ...I was going to type it here, but I will start a new thread.

I'd like to see a new story with Erica and Albert while they were in hiding.

Those two are still out there, somewhere in the world, waiting for the time to leave the natural flow of time and travel to the Lost Land.

Yes, they are. And ironically, if "good Erica" came out, she couldn't do a thing about them, for fear of disrupting the time line - she needs to let psycho Erica live so that she can start Unity in the Lost World.

Hey, here is a question - In the Valiant Universe, from the 1990's perspective, Unity already happened, and Erica lost. Yet Erica is still alive in the 1990 (and now) because she hasn't yet gone into the Lost World to start Unity.

If one of the heroes finds Erica (or vice versa) and Erica somehow learns about Unity (and it's failure) could she somehow change her plans? What would that do?

You know, that puts Secret Weapons #1 in a new light.

In Secret Weapons #1, Master Darque created Doctor Eclipse to free Erica from the wormhole Solar put her in. Obviously he was unsuccessful.

Why didn't it ever occur to Darque to simply find the Erica Pierce that existed in the natural flow of time before she became Mothergod?

I don't recall it exactly, but did Darque know that it was Pierce? I see to recall that he was referring to a demon filled with hate, or something like that. Now, it could have been metaphorical, and he was just calling Pierce a demon, or he really could have no idea what Pierce is/was, and he really THOUGHT it was some sort of extra-dimensional demon.

I recall when I read it, at the end when we realize the demon is Pierce, I interpretted it as a little "gift" to the reader, bringing something back (and hinting the Pierce may return at some point) - but not that Darque knew who it was.

Also, possibly in the "real world", Pierce isn't filled with such hatred/loathing of Solar (and to some degree, herself) as she does after spending however long trapped in the wormhole.

Chris

[thePike]

I was under the impression that the only people who knew about the Unity crisis (after it had finished) were the people that participated in Unity. The rest of the world was... oblivious? If thats true, how was Darque able to figure out it was Erica and her whole part in Unity?

[cjv]

I was under the impression that the only people who knew about the Unity crisis (after it had finished) were the people that participated in Unity. The rest of the world was... oblivious? If thats true, how was Darque able to figure out it was Erica and her whole part in Unity?

As a couple of people have said, I think that Darque didn't know who Pierce was, or what she did.

Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

Good Erica would simply be a schizo splitting of Erica Pierce, one into the "Mothergod" persona, one into the "good guy" persona. Unless you believe that Erica was ALL evil, then there could be a sane Erica Pierce that popped out of the insane Erica's head - much like Dr. SOlar popped out of Phil in the early Solar issues, or the Destroyer came out in later issues.

You know, that could also be used to explain Unity to some degree. ...I was going to type it here, but I will start a new thread.

The split was due to Phil being a schizo chicken, not because he was a being made of energy. Erica would not split like that.

Yes, they are. And ironically, if "good Erica" came out, she couldn't do a thing about them, for fear of disrupting the time line - she needs to let psycho Erica live so that she can start Unity in the Lost World.

Hey, here is a question - In the Valiant Universe, from the 1990's perspective, Unity already happened, and Erica lost. Yet Erica is still alive in the 1990 (and now) because she hasn't yet gone into the Lost World to start Unity.

If one of the heroes finds Erica (or vice versa) and Erica somehow learns about Unity (and it's failure) could she somehow change her plans? What would that do?

Unity 2: The Wrath of Pierce..

I don't recall it exactly, but did Darque know that it was Pierce? I see to recall that he was referring to a demon filled with hate, or something like that. Now, it could have been metaphorical, and he was just calling Pierce a demon, or he really could have no idea what Pierce is/was, and he really THOUGHT it was some sort of extra-dimensional demon.

I recall when I read it, at the end when we realize the demon is Pierce, I interpretted it as a little "gift" to the reader, bringing something back (and hinting the Pierce may return at some point) - but not that Darque knew who it was.

Also, possibly in the "real world", Pierce isn't filled with such hatred/loathing of Solar (and to some degree, herself) as she does after spending however long trapped in the wormhole.

Chris

Erica was motivated by hate from the start, though. She hated Phil for what he did to her and the world.

I doubt Darque referred to Erica by anything other than demon since that would have given it away, but maybe what he said could be interpreted to mean that he knew who she was.

[thePike]

Okay, I just read the first 2 issues of Secret Weapons to see what it was. Basically, the only reference to Pierce is on the last page os SW#2



Through issues #1 & 2 Darque refrences the supposed Demon as "powerful" and "full of hate" etc, but never says he knows of its origin, etc, etc, etc.

Pretty much answered my own question by reading and referenced it for anyone else.

[ManofTheAtom]

[cjv]

Good Erica would simply be a schizo splitting of Erica Pierce, one into the "Mothergod" persona, one into the "good guy" persona. Unless you believe that Erica was ALL evil, then there could be a sane Erica Pierce that popped out of the insane Erica's head - much like Dr. SOlar popped out of Phil in the early Solar issues, or the Destroyer came out in later issues.

You know, that could also be used to explain Unity to some degree. ...I was going to type it here, but I will start a new thread.

The split was due to Phil being a schizo chicken, not because he was a being made of energy. Erica would not split like that.

The split was made POSSIBLE by the fact that Phil was made of energy. As for Phil being a Schizo chicken, but "Erica would not split like that" - you mean to tell me that you think Pierce was more sane than Phil? If she was more crazy, than she certainly had the potential to split just like Phil did.

Erica was motivated by hate from the start, though. She hated Phil for what he did to her and the world.

But she also hated herself, hated the abuse she suffered, etc. But having spent who knows how long trapped in the wormhole, I am sure that her hatred of Phil might have been, shall we say, a little more focused.

On the panel, the last image we see of her father looks like Darque. Anyone think that means anything, or is it simply artistic license?


Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

The split was made POSSIBLE by the fact that Phil was made of energy. As for Phil being a Schizo chicken, but "Erica would not split like that" - you mean to tell me that you think Pierce was more sane than Phil? If she was more crazy, than she certainly had the potential to split just like Phil did.

Not all crazy people are schizos.

But she also hated herself, hated the abuse she suffered, etc. But having spent who knows how long trapped in the wormhole, I am sure that her hatred of Phil might have been, shall we say, a little more focused.

Sure

On the panel, the last image we see of her father looks like Darque. Anyone think that means anything, or is it simply artistic license?

If I remember correctly, in the story Darque was sucked into the wormhole Erica was trapped in, but I don't think that plot was ever explored

[thePike]

On the panel, the last image we see of her father looks like Darque. Anyone think that means anything, or is it simply artistic license?

IMHO, I thinks it's just a *SQUEE* off dark that he didn't get to release his powerful demon (Unknown to him as Erica) and that whole forebroding "I'm not done with you heroes' yet look..."

Could always be slanted to be turned into something else later though with little arguement...

[thePike]

[If I remember correctly, in the story Darque was sucked into the wormhole Erica was trapped in, but I don't think that plot was ever explored

I just looked at the book and nothing to support this in the art. Gilad does shout at Bloodshot to "Go Find Darque" as if he escaped during the chaos.