Notable shooter quotes and the new HCs

[yardstick]

Events shown in the comics do not necessarily preclude other events from happening between the panels (as it were).

Unity shows that a Rai attacked Mothergod, not necessarily Tohru. Can you explain Secrets of the VU where it says that Sho was going to the Lost Land?

Oh, and it is "read them again" not "read them for the first time". FYI

So what you're suggesting is that, even though before he died Rai told Magnus to remember that he kept his pledge (one he made issues earlier), and that despite the continuity from panel to panel that consistantly shows that the Rai that died was actually the same Rai that came to the Lost Land with Magnus, somehow between the panel after Rai told Magnus that, he was replaced with the other Rai?

You must be aware that your suggestions lacks any sort of facts to support it, right?

Btw, in Secrets Sho was working WITH Mothergod, not against her.

If you're looking for ideas for untold stories, then offer ones that don't contradict what has been shown, but ones that were not shown

Maybe Sho and Tohru fought each other, the good Rai vs the bad Rai, and maybe Tohru killed Sho and gave him a chance to redeem himself.

Who knows. That story hasn't been told.

The death of Tohru was told, and there is nothing to suggest that he wasn't the one that died.

And maybe Sho killed Tohru, but before Tohru died he explained the situation with Sho, convincing him to change sides and Sho then turned on Mothergod? If Jessica knew that Rai was such a threat, why allow him to get close? Unless there was something about Rai that she trusted?

Perhaps the danger Mothergod was aware of, was that there were TWO Rais in Unity? Is it possible that the Rais couild have met and then merged their power, or phyiscally, somehow becoming even more powerful, and thus a threat to Mothergod?

The story hasn't been told. So this thread and indeed all our comments have truly been all speculation. Which was intended.

[cjv]

What I am saying is was it his desire to go back to that time frame that casued him to be transported back there, or was it because somehow chronilogically he was supposed to be there?

How does something chronologically belong to an specific time period/era?

I was suggesting it as a possibility. Makes about as much sense as "exposure to future technology caused someone to end up in 1987"!

If it was desire, then why didn't Elya's desire to be with Shadowman cause her to appear in his time frame? And why did Turok want to be in 1987?

It be paradoxical, but maybe Elya's desire to be with Shadowman interacted with Solar's energy in a way that sent her to a specific moment in time when the Cult of Shadowman would exist.

Again, we have an explanation (desire caused it) but it has to me modified, "retconned" if you will, to explain why it didn't work in all cases. I am not arguing that wasn't how they explained where people were transported to. I am simply saying that using that explanation doesn't preclude other "gaffes" (like the Elya and Turok gaffe). If those can be "explained away", then the heroes appearing in 2008 can be "explained away" as well.

Exposure to future tech? Technology that appeared in the year 4000 caused him to appear in the year 1987? Yeah, that makes sense. If you want a ridiculous explanation, look no further than that!

Exposure to future tech changed Turok's way of thinking, making it so that his brain (his conciousness) did no longer chronologically belong in his original time period.

Yes, I understand, I have read the comics. I am simply pointing out that it is a pretty stupid explanation to have him appear in 1987. So why didn't it influence other people who were exposed. And why 1987 instead of the year the technology is from. (And thinking about it, did Solar transport Mon-Ark and company as well? If so, that is ANOTHER question about why they appeared when they did - not during the time of dinosaurs, nor during the time of future technology that they were made from!)

Face it, it is a flimsy explanation. It may be what they used, but it doesn't mean it was a good explanation.

Just like Elya's and Turok's subconscious led them to their destinations? Yeah, right.

Face it, people were transported back to further the storylines, with a slight attempt being made to explain why some people were being transported to various time (but the explanation wasn't very consistant).

Let's focus on what happened based solely on the character's perspective and not the "metatextual", as they call it, aspect of "furthering storylines".

You can't do one without the other, because the reason those characters didn't appear where they "wanted to" was specifically because of a story line.

You can try to explain it from the characters point of view, but the reason the explanation was needed was because of the story. So the same could hold true of the characters appearing in 2008 instead of 1992. You can come up with some explanation (exposure to future technology, for example) that will explain why they appeared in 2008. It is being done because of the story, and makes just as much sense as what happened to Turok.

Given that the explanation wasn't consistant, you could easily have the heroes transported back to 2008. Heck..."the heroes exposure to future technology caused them to appear in 2008 instead of 1992". It worked for Turok, why not other characters?

The transportation WAS consistant, as except for Aric (who wished to go to 409), Elya (who found herself in an era devoted to Shadowman), and Turok (whose mind no longer belonged to the 18th Century), everyone returned home.

And who ever many others that also might have been "changed" for some reason. We only saw three examples, who knows who else might have ended up in the wrong place.

This tends to be a moot point as we're forgetting that not only does the A&A hardcover contain the two Unity chapters but it also contains the four issues that came after them, which showed A&A in 1992.

Yes, it is somewhat moot. And, as per usual, I should have just let it alone. But yet again, I see an statement made by you with absolute authority, when there are viable, alternative possibilities that you simply neglect, ignore, or dismiss simply because your mind is made up. And yet again, I can't leave well enough alone. Sigh....

And with that, I will leave this part of the discussion alone.

Chris

[cjv]

Stuff about why Jack wasn't transported out condesnced to...

What if the reason Solar was able to send everyone except for Shadowman to different time periods was because, unlike Jack, everyone else had been exposed to Solar and Erica's energies that transported them to the Lost Land?

A good potential explanation, except for the fact that Jack wasn't the only being in the Lost Land who got there on his own. Turok did. As did the dinosaurs (Mon-Ark, and others). They were transported out (presumably when Solar transported Erica's other henchmen, except that it is sort of implied that he is transporting them to 4001 (since he specifically mentions that date when he says he is transporting them out).

Why were they trasnported out but not Jack? Even if you assume that Solar "thought" Turok was part of Erica's crew and transported him at that time, presumably he "thought" Jack was part of the crew as well.



Chris

[yardstick]

Yes, it is somewhat moot. And, as per usual, I should have just let it alone. But yet again, I see an statement made by you with absolute authority, when there are viable, alternative possibilities that you simply neglect, ignore, or dismiss simply because your mind is made up. And yet again, I can't leave well enough alone. Sigh....

And with that, I will leave this part of the discussion alone.

Chris

Indeed, it is a good discussion...

I'd like to point out regarding EW#3 (Gilad's supposed return from the Lost Land to Jillian), that I do not recall anywhere in the issue where it specifically says that Gilad "beaming in" was coming directly from the Lost Land. How do we know that he wasnt coming from somewhere else, and that the Gilad from the Lost Land wasnt being sent to 2008? A story perhaps that had not been written yet?

[ManofTheAtom]

And maybe Sho killed Tohru, but before Tohru died he explained the situation with Sho, convincing him to change sides and Sho then turned on Mothergod? If Jessica knew that Rai was such a threat, why allow him to get close? Unless there was something about Rai that she trusted?

Perhaps the danger Mothergod was aware of, was that there were TWO Rais in Unity? Is it possible that the Rais couild have met and then merged their power, or phyiscally, somehow becoming even more powerful, and thus a threat to Mothergod?

The story hasn't been told. So this thread and indeed all our comments have truly been all speculation. Which was intended.

That scenario is not required since Tohru didn't need to merge his energies with Sho's to be a threat to Erica. The energy he had in him was alone to accomplish that.

You do ask a good question. Why did Erica ally herself with Sho?

[ManofTheAtom]

I was suggesting it as a possibility. Makes about as much sense as "exposure to future technology caused someone to end up in 1987"!

Exposure to the tech changed Turok's way of thinking, thus it changed his subconsious and his conciouss selfs.

Again, we have an explanation (desire caused it) but it has to me modified, "retconned" if you will, to explain why it didn't work in all cases. I am not arguing that wasn't how they explained where people were transported to. I am simply saying that using that explanation doesn't preclude other "gaffes" (like the Elya and Turok gaffe). If those can be "explained away", then the heroes appearing in 2008 can be "explained away" as well.

Not at all.

Yes, I understand, I have read the comics. I am simply pointing out that it is a pretty stupid explanation to have him appear in 1987. So why didn't it influence other people who were exposed. And why 1987 instead of the year the technology is from. (And thinking about it, did Solar transport Mon-Ark and company as well? If so, that is ANOTHER question about why they appeared when they did - not during the time of dinosaurs, nor during the time of future technology that they were made from!)

Actually, when checking the issue I noticed that Solar was NOT responsible for sending Turok, the binosaurs, or the Skarmms anywhere. He was about to do it when the reactor exploded and created the wormhole that ate the Lost Land.

The explanation for Turok's arrival is in his first apperance in XO. Check it out... though I think it's contradictory of Unity 1 (that or the idiot that wrote the wiki has no clue... wait a minute...!)

Face it, it is a flimsy explanation. It may be what they used, but it doesn't mean it was a good explanation.

But it is.

It all goes back to the points I brought up. How does something chronologically belong to an specific time period/era? What defines that?

You can't do one without the other, because the reason those characters didn't appear where they "wanted to" was specifically because of a story line.

You can try to explain it from the characters point of view, but the reason the explanation was needed was because of the story. So the same could hold true of the characters appearing in 2008 instead of 1992. You can come up with some explanation (exposure to future technology, for example) that will explain why they appeared in 2008. It is being done because of the story, and makes just as much sense as what happened to Turok.

The reasons why the characters that Solar was directly responsible for sending to 92 were very clear. Their own conciousness lead them in their directions home.

And who ever many others that also might have been "changed" for some reason. We only saw three examples, who knows who else might have ended up in the wrong place.

The Skarmms, the dinos, Turok.

But w'ere focusing on the heroes.

Yes, it is somewhat moot. And, as per usual, I should have just let it alone. But yet again, I see an statement made by you with absolute authority, when there are viable, alternative possibilities that you simply neglect, ignore, or dismiss simply because your mind is made up. And yet again, I can't leave well enough alone. Sigh....

And with that, I will leave this part of the discussion alone.

Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

Yes, it is somewhat moot. And, as per usual, I should have just let it alone. But yet again, I see an statement made by you with absolute authority, when there are viable, alternative possibilities that you simply neglect, ignore, or dismiss simply because your mind is made up. And yet again, I can't leave well enough alone. Sigh....

And with that, I will leave this part of the discussion alone.

Chris

Indeed, it is a good discussion...

I'd like to point out regarding EW#3 (Gilad's supposed return from the Lost Land to Jillian), that I do not recall anywhere in the issue where it specifically says that Gilad "beaming in" was coming directly from the Lost Land. How do we know that he wasnt coming from somewhere else, and that the Gilad from the Lost Land wasnt being sent to 2008? A story perhaps that had not been written yet?

There's no reason whatsoever to assume that he came from anywhere else.

[yardstick]

And maybe Sho killed Tohru, but before Tohru died he explained the situation with Sho, convincing him to change sides and Sho then turned on Mothergod? If Jessica knew that Rai was such a threat, why allow him to get close? Unless there was something about Rai that she trusted?

Perhaps the danger Mothergod was aware of, was that there were TWO Rais in Unity? Is it possible that the Rais couild have met and then merged their power, or phyiscally, somehow becoming even more powerful, and thus a threat to Mothergod?

The story hasn't been told. So this thread and indeed all our comments have truly been all speculation. Which was intended.

That scenario is not required since Tohru didn't need to merge his energies with Sho's to be a threat to Erica. The energy he had in him was alone to accomplish that.

You do ask a good question. Why did Erica ally herself with Sho?

She had to have known about Tohru... And why didnt she send Sho out to battle Tohru and wear him down before striking herself?

[ManofTheAtom]

And maybe Sho killed Tohru, but before Tohru died he explained the situation with Sho, convincing him to change sides and Sho then turned on Mothergod? If Jessica knew that Rai was such a threat, why allow him to get close? Unless there was something about Rai that she trusted?

Perhaps the danger Mothergod was aware of, was that there were TWO Rais in Unity? Is it possible that the Rais couild have met and then merged their power, or phyiscally, somehow becoming even more powerful, and thus a threat to Mothergod?

The story hasn't been told. So this thread and indeed all our comments have truly been all speculation. Which was intended.

That scenario is not required since Tohru didn't need to merge his energies with Sho's to be a threat to Erica. The energy he had in him was alone to accomplish that.

You do ask a good question. Why did Erica ally herself with Sho?

She had to have known about Tohru... And why didnt she send Sho out to battle Tohru and wear him down before striking herself?

Obviously she knew about Tohru, she tried to get him to leave by threatening Japan.

There were 158 days of Unity, a lot of stuff is still unrevealed.

Maybe she did send Sho to assasinate Tohru during those 158 days and Tohru ended up winning the battle.

And remember, she didn't go at Tohru specifically to strike at him, but to stop all of them from reaching Solar. Rai was just the one that chose to stay behind.

Tohru hated Mothergod for destroying Japan. Sho had no love for the island, so he wouldn't have cared if it had been destroyed. The people there hated him and Grandmother betrayed him, so for him Japan crashing and people dying would be what they deserved.

There would be no reason for Sho to want to kill Mothergod for destroying Japan.

[yardstick]

Yes, it is somewhat moot. And, as per usual, I should have just let it alone. But yet again, I see an statement made by you with absolute authority, when there are viable, alternative possibilities that you simply neglect, ignore, or dismiss simply because your mind is made up. And yet again, I can't leave well enough alone. Sigh....

And with that, I will leave this part of the discussion alone.

Chris

Indeed, it is a good discussion...

I'd like to point out regarding EW#3 (Gilad's supposed return from the Lost Land to Jillian), that I do not recall anywhere in the issue where it specifically says that Gilad "beaming in" was coming directly from the Lost Land. How do we know that he wasnt coming from somewhere else, and that the Gilad from the Lost Land wasnt being sent to 2008? A story perhaps that had not been written yet?

There's no reason whatsoever to assume that he came from anywhere else.

At this point, Id like to point out that there has not been a "filler" story to explain that EW#3 Gilad must have been coming from the Unity #1 Lost Land.

This is a great example of one of the "holes" in continuity which allow for future writtings later showing that The Gilad in EW#3 was not the same Gilad from Unity #1. After all, Since Gilad is "Eternal" he isnt theoretically going to appreciably age, so he could show up from Unity #1 in 2008, and then, some arbitrary time later, be sent by Solar (or some other method) back to EW#3.

Now if you were to show me the plotting for Unity #1 and EW #3 that explained that Gilad from Untiy #1 was explicitly sent to EW #3 or that the plotting from EW #3 explicitly says he is coming from Unity #1, then I think we can agree that Gilad from U#1 = Gilad from EW#3 due to writer's intent.

However, that will not preclude a plotting in the future from retconning the previously explained plotting to allow for another story to tie in continuity to a future story.

("plotting" as used above is intended to refer to the instructions given to the scripter / penciller about how the story is going to be told)

[ManofTheAtom]

At this point, Id like to point out that there has not been a "filler" story to explain that EX#3 Gilad must have been coming from the Unity #1 Lost Land. This is a great example of one of the "holes' in continuity which allow for future writtings about later showing that The Gilad in EW#3 was not the same Gilad from Unity #1. After all, Since Gilad is "Eternal" he isnt theoretically going to age, so he could show up from Unity #1 in 2008, and then, some arbitrary time later, be sent by Solar (or some other method) back to EW#3.

There is no evidence whatsoever to support this.

Now if you were to show me the plot writings for Unity #1 and EW #3 that explained that Gilad from Untiy #1 was explicitly sent to EW #3 or that the plot from EW #3 explicitly says he is coming from Unity #1, then I think we can agree that Gilad from U#1 = Gilad from EW#3.

It's right there in the comic.

Gilad to Jillian "All these months, I thought you were dead"

Unity lasted six months.

However, that will not preclude a plotting in the future from retconning the previously explained plotting to allow for another story to tie in continuity to a future story.

("plotting" as used above is intended to refer to the instructions given to the scripter / penciller about how the story is going to be told)

Sure, any hack could come along and ruin the story for no reason, like Morrison is doing with Barry Allen in Final Crisis.

It's a very simple concept to follow.

Solar energized them and their conciousness guided them. Gilad wanted to go save Jillian... why would he want to go elsewhere?

That's what you need to justify your theory, a reason why Gilad would want to go anywhere but 1992 to save Jillian. A reason why he would want to go to 2008 just like Aric had a reason to go back to 408

[yardstick]

At this point, Id like to point out that there has not been a "filler" story to explain that EX#3 Gilad must have been coming from the Unity #1 Lost Land. This is a great example of one of the "holes' in continuity which allow for future writtings about later showing that The Gilad in EW#3 was not the same Gilad from Unity #1. After all, Since Gilad is "Eternal" he isnt theoretically going to age, so he could show up from Unity #1 in 2008, and then, some arbitrary time later, be sent by Solar (or some other method) back to EW#3.

There is no evidence whatsoever to support this.

There is no evidence not to support this.

Now if you were to show me the plot writings for Unity #1 and EW #3 that explained that Gilad from Untiy #1 was explicitly sent to EW #3 or that the plot from EW #3 explicitly says he is coming from Unity #1, then I think we can agree that Gilad from U#1 = Gilad from EW#3.

It's right there in the comic.

Gilad to Jillian "All these months, I thought you were dead"

Unity lasted six months.

Which also does not preclude him being gone longer than 6 months.

However, that will not preclude a plotting in the future from retconning the previously explained plotting to allow for another story to tie in continuity to a future story.

("plotting" as used above is intended to refer to the instructions given to the scripter / penciller about how the story is going to be told)

Sure, any hack could come along and ruin the story for no reason, like Morrison is doing with Barry Allen in Final Crisis.

It's a very simple concept to follow.

Or like Shooter did with Magnus...

Solar energized them and their conciousness guided them. Gilad wanted to go save Jillian... why would he want to go elsewhere?

That's what you need to justify your theory, a reason why Gilad would want to go anywhere but 1992 to save Jillian. A reason why he would want to go to 2008 just like Aric had a reason to go back to 408

You havent accounted for the inconsistencies regarding your consciousness argument pointed out previously, so you can't realistically use the consciousness argument until you do.

Now if we assumed that some of the Unity heroes asked Solar to send them back to specific times, and for the ones who didnt ask, Solar made a guess (or even a mistake) as to where to send them; then, notwithstanding that it is not explicitly shown in Unity #1, it is possible to have all the people from Unity go to the places shown in their post-Unity issues.

[yardstick]

If it hasnt become patently obvious by now, I'd just like to point out that I am treating Unity as similar to Rai 0, where there are plenty of plot holes to fill in and lots of wiggle room.

For example, during Unity, not every day of Unity is written about in the story, only some of them. So what happened on Unity Day 143 for example, or Unity Day 99?

So long as there is not every day of Unity written about, there is room for more storytelling.

[ManofTheAtom]

There is no evidence not to support this.

Yes there is, I quoted it.

Their conciousnesses guided their travel. WHY would Gilad want to go anywhere else?

Which also does not preclude him being gone longer than 6 months.

Yes it does. His conciousness guided his travel. WHY would he want to go elsewhere?

That's the question you need to answer, the ONLY question you need to answer.

Or like Shooter did with Magnus...

Shooter used what came before. Check the interview you got the quotes from. He made it clear that he had no intention to ignore anything that came before.

You havent accounted for the inconsistencies regarding your consciousness argument pointed out previously, so you can't realistically use the consciousness argument until you do.

There have been no inconsistancies.

Aric wanted to go to 408, so he did. Gilad, the kids, Archer, and Aram wanted to go to 1992 and they did.

Now if we assumed that some of the Unity heroes asked Solar to send them back to specific times, and for the ones who didnt ask, Solar made a guess (or even a mistake) as to where to send them; then, notwithstanding that it is not explicitly shown in Unity #1, it is possible to have all the people from Unity go to the places shown in their post-Unity issues.

No one asked Solar for anything. Read the comic. Solar did it on his own, he energized the Lost Land and let their individual conciousnesses guide them. He did twice, first for the heroes and then for Erica's people.

And it is explicitly shown in Unity 1, you have to read it to see it. I quoted it and you seem to have ignored it, so why did I bother?

That's the main reason for why these kind of debates never go anywhere. I quote from the comics and people ignore it, or they ignore what's in the comics they have and make baseless assumptions.

[yardstick]

There is no evidence not to support this.

Yes there is, I quoted it.

Their conciousnesses guided their travel. WHY would Gilad want to go anywhere else?

Which also does not preclude him being gone longer than 6 months.

Yes it does. His conciousness guided his travel. WHY would he want to go elsewhere?

That's the question you need to answer, the ONLY question you need to answer.

MOTA, you have ignored cjv's point regarding the inconsistency of using the consciousness argument by failing to explain why Turok was not sent where his consciousness wanted to go. By continuiing to use the consciousness argument, you are also arguing that Turok consciously wanted to go to 1987. This is a non-sequitur.

Now I could grant you that all of the heroes wanted to go back home to their respective times. But that would require me to argue that Turok wanted to go to 1987, which also does not make any sense.

The only thing which does make sense (to me) is that Solar tried to send everyone back to the time they should have been in, and was unsuccessful in some instances. This would allow for Gilad and some others to be placed in some other time than their respectively appropriate times. Thus allowing for a hole between U#1 and EW#3. In other words, Solar tried to send everyone where they were supposed to go but he made mistakes, or he intentionally sent people to other places/times.

[yardstick]

Or like Shooter did with Magnus...

Shooter used what came before. Check the interview you got the quotes from. He made it clear that he had no intention to ignore anything that came before.

Shooter has also said in interviews that he neglected some parts of prior continuity (from magnus, et al)

[yardstick]

No one asked Solar for anything. Read the comic. Solar did it on his own, he energized the Lost Land and let their individual conciousnesses guide them. He did twice, first for the heroes and then for Erica's people.

And it is explicitly shown in Unity 1, you have to read it to see it. I quoted it and you seem to have ignored it, so why did I bother?

That's the main reason for why these kind of debates never go anywhere. I quote from the comics and people ignore it, or they ignore what's in the comics they have and make baseless assumptions.

I said IF they asked Solar... who's not reading?

There is no indication in Unity #1 that Solar was not asked.

[yardstick]

That's the main reason for why these kind of debates never go anywhere. I quote from the comics and people ignore it, or they ignore what's in the comics they have and make baseless assumptions.

Many people make assumptinos based upon what is not explicitly stated in the comics. Here there is wiggle room for making assumptions. Granted, there are some instances where other comics provide information which may contradict an assumption, but in the instant matter, this is not necessarily the case, or you have not posted a quote from the comic where it is explicitly shown that an assumption is incorrect.

[ManofTheAtom]

MOTA, you have ignored cjv's point regarding the inconsistency of using the consciousness argument by failing to explain why Turok was not sent where his consciousness wanted to go. By continuiing to use the consciousness argument, you are also arguing that Turok consciously wanted to go to 1987. This is a non-sequitur.

Read the comic.

Solar sent the heroes and Erica's people... when did he send Turok anywhere?

Solar "We've got to send the natives of the Lost Land somewhere!"

Geoff "It's too late -- I can hear the screams! It --"

After that the blackhole destroys the Lost Land and there is no mention whatsoever of the natives again... so,again I ask, WHEN did Solar have time to send them anywhere?

Were you guys to bother to open the comics once in awhile, we wouldn't have these pointless debates. Instead, we'd all be talking using the same information instead of wasting time getting you up to date on the facts.

In X-O Manowar #14, when we see Turok arrive in 1987, all we see is his getting sucked by the black hole. Solar has NOTHING to do with it whatsoever. Apparently, some renmant energy from Solar's bubbles were responsible for Turok and the binosaur's trip.

Your and cjv's "inconcistancies" are nothing of the sort, as Solar, who was solely responsible for sending the heroes and Erica's people out of the Lost Land, had NOTHING to do directly with Turok's trip.

As for Elya, maybe it was her being in a passageway between the Lost Land and the real world that messed up Solar's energy infusion.

Read the comics

Now I could grant you that some of the heroes wanted to go back home to their respective times. But that would require me to argue that Turok wanted to go to 1987, which also does not make any sense.

Had you read the comic, then you would have seen that Solar had nothing to do with Turok's trip, so the energy he used to infuse the other's trip through time that their conciousness guided was not responsible for Turok's trip.

The only thing which does make sense (to me) is that Solar tried to send everyone back to the time they should have been in, and was unsuccessful in some instances.

Which is a wrong assumption given that Solar had NOTHING to do with guiding where the people went, he left that to their own unique conciousness, which is why Aric ended in 408, because that's where he wanted to go.

This would allow for Gilad and some others to be placed in some other time than their respectively appropriate times.

Wrong, again. The comic makes it crystal clear (and I quoted from it) that the trip through time was guided by the individual's conciousness. They went to where they wanted to go, not to where Solar wanted them to go.

Aric wanted to go to 408 and Gilad and the others wanted to go to 1992.

For anyone (that is, of the heroes and Erica's people, the only two groups that Solar was responsible for) to go anywhere other than 408, 1992, or 4001 they would have to WANT to go elsewhere.

Gilad had NO reason whatsoever to go to 2008 or anywhere else but 1992.

Thus allowing for a hole between U#1 and EW#3. In other words, Solar tried to send everyone where they were supposed to go but he made mistakes, or he intentionally sent people to other places/times

Wrong, a third time.

Solar did not guide anyone's travel, their conciousness did. All he did was energize the Lost Land. The individuals chose where they wanted to go.

I've said this countless times and it still doesn't sink in. Am I saying it wrong?

[ManofTheAtom]

No one asked Solar for anything. Read the comic. Solar did it on his own, he energized the Lost Land and let their individual conciousnesses guide them. He did twice, first for the heroes and then for Erica's people.

And it is explicitly shown in Unity 1, you have to read it to see it. I quoted it and you seem to have ignored it, so why did I bother?

That's the main reason for why these kind of debates never go anywhere. I quote from the comics and people ignore it, or they ignore what's in the comics they have and make baseless assumptions.

I said IF they asked Solar... who's not reading?

There is no indication in Unity #1 that Solar was not asked.

Yes there is. If you bothered to read the comic you would see it.

Open it and see for yourself.

EVERYONE was spread out across Mothergod's complex, the only one that was with Solar was Geoff, who asked him to send Magnus to the future. That was the only direct request he got from anyone to be taken to a specific time period.

[ManofTheAtom]

That's the main reason for why these kind of debates never go anywhere. I quote from the comics and people ignore it, or they ignore what's in the comics they have and make baseless assumptions.

Many people make assumptinos based upon what is not explicitly stated in the comics. Here there is wiggle room for making assumptions. Granted, there are some instances where other comics provide information which may contradict an assumption, but in the instant matter, this is not necessarily the case, or you have not posted a quote from the comic where it is explicitly shown that an assumption is incorrect.

You're making assumptions that contradict what was established to come up with an unsupported conclusion.

[ManofTheAtom]

Hopefully, this will only be need to be said one last time so that we can move on.

Solar did not control where anyone went, all he did was energize the Lost Land to allow the individual's conciousness to guide their destination. He did this for the heroes and for Erica's people, no one else, not even Turok.

Any theories about Solar guiding where people went, or any theories about individuals other than Geoff asking him to send them to anywhere in particular are unsupported by the published comics.

[yardstick]

Hopefully, this will only be need to be said one last time so that we can move on.

Solar did not control where anyone went, all he did was energize the Lost Land to allow the individual's conciousness to guide their destination. He did this for the heroes and for Erica's people, no one else, not even Turok.

Any theories about Solar guiding where people went, or any theories about individuals other than Geoff asking him to send them to anywhere in particular are unsupported by the published comics.

Not likely MOTA, as long as there are people who either know less than others do regarding the VU and/or are more prone to speculate on information which has not been provided.

[greg]

Read the comic.

Solar sent the heroes and Erica's people... when did he send Turok anywhere?

Solar "We've got to send the natives of the Lost Land somewhere!"

Geoff "It's too late -- I can hear the screams! It --"

After that the blackhole destroys the Lost Land and there is no mention whatsoever of the natives again... so,again I ask, WHEN did Solar have time to send them anywhere?

Were you guys to bother to open the comics once in awhile, we wouldn't have these pointless debates. Instead, we'd all be talking using the same information instead of wasting time getting you up to date on the facts.

In X-O Manowar #14, when we see Turok arrive in 1987, all we see is his getting sucked by the black hole. Solar has NOTHING to do with it whatsoever. Apparently, some renmant energy from Solar's bubbles were responsible for Turok and the binosaur's trip.

Your and cjv's "inconcistancies" are nothing of the sort, as Solar, who was solely responsible for sending the heroes and Erica's people out of the Lost Land, had NOTHING to do directly with Turok's trip.

Don't you see how stupid that storyline is?

Seriously. X-O Manowar #14 might have one of the best covers in the series,
but the story is built upon a NON-VALIANT foundation.

Turok was about to be destroyed by the black hole, but a "Solar bubble" saved him?
Are you kidding me? Was it drawn with the magic ink of Unity 2000?

So, for no apparent reason, he and some dinosaurs are "thrown" into 1987... for two pages.

Then all of the sudden, it's 1992 and Ken is shown in the most stereotypical way possible,
sunning himself in a thong bathing suit, then getting scared and screaming "Oh My Gawd!"

What next? How could the stupidity level keep going?

Aric arrives! Just in time to shake his head like he's auditioning for a Vidal Sassoon commercial.

Next page: Randy Cartier is wearing the weirdest pair of glasses I've ever seen.
They look like they were made as a faceguard to protect cheekbones and eyebrows.

Then what? Jurassic Park ripoff time

Ug. That's enough. X-O Manowar #14 is officially not VALIANT.

It might have a VALIANT logo. It might be "carved in stone" in ManofTheAtom's "bible of truth",
but it's too stupid to qualify as the VALIANT which I am a fan of.

VEI should erase the stupidity as soon as humanly possible.

Re-write the past, make it VALIANT... for the first time.

End rant.

[Chiclo]

Read the comic.

Solar sent the heroes and Erica's people... when did he send Turok anywhere?

Solar "We've got to send the natives of the Lost Land somewhere!"

Geoff "It's too late -- I can hear the screams! It --"

After that the blackhole destroys the Lost Land and there is no mention whatsoever of the natives again... so,again I ask, WHEN did Solar have time to send them anywhere?

Were you guys to bother to open the comics once in awhile, we wouldn't have these pointless debates. Instead, we'd all be talking using the same information instead of wasting time getting you up to date on the facts.

In X-O Manowar #14, when we see Turok arrive in 1987, all we see is his getting sucked by the black hole. Solar has NOTHING to do with it whatsoever. Apparently, some renmant energy from Solar's bubbles were responsible for Turok and the binosaur's trip.

Your and cjv's "inconcistancies" are nothing of the sort, as Solar, who was solely responsible for sending the heroes and Erica's people out of the Lost Land, had NOTHING to do directly with Turok's trip.

Don't you see how stupid that storyline is?

Seriously. X-O Manowar #14 might have one of the best covers in the series,
but the story is built upon a NON-VALIANT foundation.

Turok was about to be destroyed by the black hole, but a "Solar bubble" saved him?
Are you kidding me? Was it drawn with the magic ink of Unity 2000?

So, for no apparent reason, he and some dinosaurs are "thrown" into 1987... for two pages.

Then all of the sudden, it's 1992 and Ken is shown in the most stereotypical way possible,
sunning himself in a thong bathing suit, then getting scared and screaming "Oh My Gawd!"

What next? How could the stupidity level keep going?

Aric arrives! Just in time to shake his head like he's auditioning for a Vidal Sassoon commercial.

Next page: Randy Cartier is wearing the weirdest pair of glasses I've ever seen.
They look like they were made as a faceguard to protect cheekbones and eyebrows.

Then what? Jurassic Park ripoff time

Ug. That's enough. X-O Manowar #14 is officially not VALIANT.

It might have a VALIANT logo. It might be "carved in stone" in ManofTheAtom's "bible of truth",
but it's too stupid to qualify as the VALIANT which I am a fan of.

VEI should erase the stupidity as soon as humanly possible.

Re-write the past, make it VALIANT... for the first time.

End rant.

I don't see how anyone can debate those facts. It's so elegant and obvious when you spell it out that way.

X-O 14 is now out of my Valiant boxes.