Shadowman #6 Discussion

[bygranddesign]

I think there are plenty of good ideas and interesting plots and sub plots. The over arching storyline is excellent involving the return of Master Darque and the alliance with Semedi

I just think at times there are inconsistencies in the execution of the ideas ... and the good guys are a bit too one note and not as well fleshed out as they should be.

but everything is set up for this to be an awesome comic every month... like how great issue 5 was.

the "problems" are very fixable.

overall I'm loving this comic ...and i'm excited to see what happens next

I think issue ZERO is going to be great

[chriskay99]

Still not really a fan of this book. I like Samedi teaming up with Jack but I share a lot of the same feelings with others -- don't really know who Jack is, the lack of origin and Jack just accepting he is Shadowman even though he isn't really sure what/who that is. The art was all over the place in this issue. Some of the dialogue still comes across as cheesy - I don't need word balloons in action panels necessarily, especially if it's just to say something like, "No" or "get back" or whatever. It feels like forced dialogue.

Hoping things pick up with the zero issue and one writer handling it from now on. Not saying that the writing is anyone's fault - but perhaps the title will be more unified under the vision of one writer.

[MoonChild]

I dont even need to comment on this book, you guys covered everything I felt after reading this. It's just not nearly as good as it could or should be. I just don't care about Jack like I should. The dialog is just kinda lame in alot of spots. The good parts were def Samedi but even that could have been better. I don't even have interest in Darque so far. Again, this book can be great. I know it can, I mean Vol 1 and 3 were GREAT, even the end of 2 but this new volume has all the tools and is just not delivering, the last issue I felt things were really picking up but this one just fell flat. I'll keep reading, hope things change for the better soon.

[Chris Campbell]

Man. Zircher on art will be missed. Really enjoyed issue 5, and I liked issue 6 as well. But the art change took me out at times.

[Zaphod]

and having Dr Mirage show up in her superhero costume again is really cheesy imho.

I don't necessarily see Dr. Mirage's outfit as a super hero costume. It seems like it is just her style, she is a television personality after all, they dress to stand out.

But she was appearing from the shadows in this issue.

The paparazzo is everywhere!

[manga4life]

What an awesome follow up to issue #5! Seriously, if you haven't read Shadowman #6 than you're truly missing out on an amazing storyline with Darque/Samedi and everything going on with Dr. Mirage/Dox/Jack, this has been absolutely stellar! The art.....blew me away, the story......blew me away, and the fact that Samedi used a follower to return to earth and confront Shadowman was just fun as hell. This book was a homerun after such an amazing issue #5, especially the Mirage/Dox dialogue and the Samedi/Jack altercation.

Pure gold here, folks! I'm not saying this because I'm a fanboy, even though I am, I'm saying this because I am "feeling" these past two issues and feel this title is moving into an awesome position to become a top tier book.

[bygranddesign]

I guess I just don't know why Jack is so hung-ho about being Shadowman. He's very cocky, and Batman-y in his demeanor when he's Shadowman. It's actually kind of annoying, since we know that he has no idea what he's doing, and is a newbie at this whole thing. Like why is he just going on a drug bust? Because (we have to infer) that Dox told him to? Just not sure what his motivation is to be Shadowman.
When he IS Shadwoman, sure, someone can say, "well, that's the loa talking, not Jack", but that's even more confusing. So, when he's Shadowman, is he Jack too? Or is he completely taken over, and Jack has no consciousness at that point? But we see that's not the case because he sees Alifair, and talks as Jack, not SM.
Ugh....

I think you hit on something here that does bother me as well.

There are times when it seems that there is no clear distinction between the Black Dialogue Voice and the Normal Voice when Jack is Shadowman.

I would assume that the Black Dialogue voice is the Loa speaking or perhaps Jack summoning the power of the Loa and his voice changes when he is in fully engaged and one with the Loa.

When he speaks normal as Shadowman its completely his human side speaking

But i'm just assuming this and it was never quite explained ... When Shadowman (in the voice of the Loa) says in this issue "Terrific, Awesome, Zombies..." That sounds like something normal voice Jack might say, not Jack possessed by the power of the Loa would say. Why would "Shadowman" be unenthusiastic about fighting Zombies? Isn't this what "Shadowman" lives for? Doesn't he want to crush Zombie skulls??

Bottom line is we need better insight on Jack's personality ... on his relationship with the Loa and Shadowman .. on what makes him tick.

And I hope he is able to have a somewhat normal life ... maybe find that amulet he threw away so he can be protected during the day and not worry about endangering the people around him.

[erwinrafael]

There are times when it seems that there is no clear distinction between the Black Dialogue Voice and the Normal Voice when Jack is Shadowman.

I would assume that the Black Dialogue voice is the Loa speaking or perhaps Jack summoning the power of the Loa and his voice changes when he is in fully engaged and one with the Loa.

When he speaks normal as Shadowman its completely his human side speaking

It's like Christian Bale switching voices when he goes from Bruce Wayne to Batman.

[bygranddesign]

It's like Christian Bale switching voices when he goes from Bruce Wayne to Batman.

(Not to pile on because I do enjoy this comic each month) but I actually think that would be a step up .. at least that batman voice has a consistent purpose - it's meant to be menacing and strike fear in the enemy.

Sometimes the "Loa voice" does that .. but other times it just seems too conversational.

I think this is a gripe that is fixable ... and maybe as the series goes on - i'll have better understanding of the inner dynamic of Jack/Shadowman.
On a similar note, Right now, it seems like the Loa is a spirit that has vague recollections of it's own legacy - for example Shadowman acts surprised in one scene that it remembers Master Darque. Or perhaps Jack only has limited access to the memories of the Loa ... either way - it would be nice to have a clearer insight on how this relationship works.

On a positive note - this series does inspire a lot of thought proovoking questioning which is not a bad thing...

[jmatt]

But i'm just assuming this and it was never quite explained ... When Shadowman (in the voice of the Loa) says in this issue "Terrific, Awesome, Zombies..." That sounds like something normal voice Jack might say, not Jack possessed by the power of the Loa would say. Why would "Shadowman" be unenthusiastic about fighting Zombies? Isn't this what "Shadowman" lives for? Doesn't he want to crush Zombie skulls??

That's a good example. If they're gonna go with this personality dichotomy then they have to use The Hulk as a reference model. Jack as the fragile, confused and frustrated man, and "Hulk smash!" when the Loa kicks in.

As it stands now, the Shadowman loa is like a toolbelt Jack magically straps on whenever the script calls for it. There's not even a transition panel; one second he's a guy in streetclothes and the next panel he's all dolled up as Shadowman talking smack to Baron Samedi.

And the reader never quite knows, is this Jack talking? The loa? For someone thrust into his situation there's no confusion, he acts as if he's been Shadowman forever -- but sometimes speaks as if this all new for him.

What this book needs is an inner monologue; something that explains what the *SQUEE* is going on in his head.

[bygranddesign]

What this book needs is an inner monologue; something that explains what the *SQUEE* is going on in his head.

Yep I agree. Dysart fleshed out all the renegades and Harada in 6 issues while also pushing along the plot towards Harbinger Wars by using a lot of inner monologue that in some cases spoke directly to the reader.

I think Shadowman needs an issue like that.

no Alyssa, no Dox

Just jack, Shadowman, the city and the night ... Lots of inner monologue, maybe some flashback sequences of his youth, his struggles(?).. Etc. Maybe him beating up some random, generic thugs for fun. Nothing earth shattering in terms of plot - just a way of shedding light on the inner workings of the Jack/Shadowman relationship.

[bribri]

What this book needs is an inner monologue; something that explains what the *SQUEE* is going on in his head.

Yep I agree. Dysart fleshed out all the renegades and Harada in 6 issues while also pushing along the plot towards Harbinger Wars by using a lot of inner monologue that in some cases spoke directly to the reader.

I think Shadowman needs an issue like that.

no Alyssa, no Dox

Just jack, Shadowman, the city and the night ... Lots of inner monologue, maybe some flashback sequences of his youth, his struggles(?).. Etc. Maybe him beating up some random, generic thugs for fun. Nothing earth shattering in terms of plot - just a way of shedding light on the inner workings of the Jack/Shadowman relationship.

I think all of the new books (except Harbinger) could use a little more inner dialogue. We could learn so much more about Aric and his relationship with the armor, learn more about A&A through Archer's diary (only seen in one issue so far), and learn more about Bloodshot's struggle with his identity. Other than the Renegades, we haven't really gotten inside anyone's head!

By the way, did anyone notice the waitress was one of the ghosts behind Dr. Mirage?

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

I think all of the new books (except Harbinger) could use a little more inner dialogue. We could learn so much more about Aric and his relationship with the armor, learn more about A&A through Archer's diary (only seen in one issue so far), and learn more about Bloodshot's struggle with his identity. Other than the Renegades, we haven't really gotten inside anyone's head!

V-Ditti did an interview with OTV saying that he took it as a personal challenge to write X-O without Thought Dialogue, that he could tell the story without that tool. So, we won't be seeing that in X-O any time soon. But yes, it would be an important tool for this title, IMO.

By the way, did anyone notice the waitress was one of the ghosts behind Dr. Mirage?

Yep

[hawkeyeps]

Here's a nutty theory- What if the Deadside is inhabitted by spirits who were killed wronly (as was the impression I got from the first arc)? What if these spirits are trapped in the Deadside and unable to move on untill they are avenged and what if Shadowman is the instrument of that vengence and some what of a gate keeper and ferry man for the Deadside?

I think #0 will reveal a lot, not only do we need to know more about Jack we also need to know what the deal with the Loa is.

[jmatt]

I think all of the new books (except Harbinger) could use a little more inner dialogue

It's got my vote. But in the case of a&A, the return of Archer's journal would do just fine.

[grendeljd]

I think all of the new books (except Harbinger) could use a little more inner dialogue

It's got my vote. But in the case of a&A, the return of Archer's journal would do just fine.

+1

[erwinrafael]

I think all of the new books (except Harbinger) could use a little more inner dialogue

It's got my vote. But in the case of a&A, the return of Archer's journal would do just fine.

I think A&A is just packed with story so far that inserting the diary entries would be out of place. That is why it appeared in the first issue, there was a space for it as a storytelling device during Archer's search for He Who Must Not Be Named.

In X-O, Venditti is using the flashbacks at the start of the issues to reflect the thoughts of Aric.

[jmatt]

I think A&A is just packed with story so far that inserting the diary entries would be out of place.

Well they needn't use it in every issue, just when appropriate. To me, it seems like just another tool to have a comedic moment.

[lorddunlow]

I really enjoyed this issue. I just read it this morning before work, and while I didn't like it as much as the previous issue, it was a good read. I don't really get the negativity in this thread, but I guess to each his own. I had harshly judged A&A up until it got really good, now the earlier issues seem better on re-read. I think this book will do the same, although I've consistently enjoyed this book more than A&A.

I do wish for more Voodoo themes and agree that there needs to be a clearer delineation of when he's Jack vs. the Loa. I agree completely with the following statement:

the "problems" are very fixable.

Looking forward to more. I like Zircher's art but I think it will be better without him (at least for this book)
.

[Bl00dsh0t]

I am suprised at the negative response SHADOWMAN has gotten recently.

As a new fan to Valiant and picking up SHADOWMAN from #1 I'm loving the series (more so for the second arc #5 & #6).

The supporting cast is fantastic and has added another element to SHADOWMAN.

#6 is the best in the series so far with #1 a very close second.

Perhaps I like it so much as I have nothing to compare it to having not previously read the initial run?

Either way, I look forward to reading more

[manga4life]

I am suprised at the negative response SHADOWMAN has gotten recently.

As a new fan to Valiant and picking up SHADOWMAN from #1 I'm loving the series (more so for the second arc #5 & #6).

The supporting cast is fantastic and has added another element to SHADOWMAN.

#6 is the best in the series so far with #1 a very close second.

Perhaps I like it so much as I have nothing to compare it to having not previously read the initial run?

Either way, I look forward to reading more

I am totally with you, I want to read more and I'm loving this book as a whole. Personally, I've felt the first two issues were fantastic, issue #5 and #6 were fantastic, and issue #3 and #4 were kinda "meh", but that's not a terrible thing seeing as how the good is totally out weighing the bad for me and I've bumped Shadowman into Harbinger/X-O territory for me as far as how much I'm enjoying this book as of late.

FEED ME MORE! <----- (Anyone get that reference?)

[jmatt]

Perhaps I like it so much as I have nothing to compare it to having not previously read the initial run?

Probably. The new Shadowman is more different than the original version of all the titles, so us old Valiant fans are probably having difficulty digesting it.

But that said, the book still has some big problems from a writing perspective imo.

[Zaphod]

sorta off topic but can we put to rest the rhetoric of "Best idea wins" as being some grand design or fool proof winning scheme?

best idea wins is the same thing as saying best opinion wins. It's a good motto for a start-up company but it means nothing to the consumers of that product (us).

[blujay]

sorta off topic but can we put to rest the rhetoric of "Best idea wins" as being some grand design or fool proof winning scheme?

I don't think that's how it's supposed to be taken. I always thought of it as a way of saying "go with the flow" editorial.

[BugsySig]

sorta off topic but can we put to rest the rhetoric of "Best idea wins" as being some grand design or fool proof winning scheme?

I don't think that's how it's supposed to be taken. I always thought of it as a way of saying "go with the flow" editorial.

Agreed. I see it as they have a plan to have X # of books by Y date, but what those books are depend on the pitches they get. Don't like enough pitches = less books, like more than you wanted = more books.