X-O #14 discussion

[Carson]

Time for cross examination:

While I agree with a lot of these posts, I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate for a second. I just reread issues 11-14.

1) The title of the arc is quite an overstatement. I was never quite sure if it is meant to convey "planet of death" or "death of a planet", but it was neither, by a very enormous margin. Every issue I kept expecting the book to erupt into a world ending war with smoldering cities and millions of dead. I suppose I don't mind that it didn't, but customer expectations are important.

I liked the issue and the arc but I think my expectations left me feeling like I never got what I was promised. They could have simply titled this arc something like "Reunited" and I would have felt more fulfilled.

I for one am glad Aric made allies and didn't blindly murder millions. I wouldn't respect the architect of a genocide, alien or human. Planet Death was an exciting title that really helped build buzz for the arc. I don't think an arc called "Reunited" would have generated nearly as much interest.

2) I vacillate on Nord's style. Some pages are terrific and others leave me wondering what this all might look like if Clayton Henry did it. In this issue, the panel where we see the Vine army headed for the slave encampment was weak. And thank goodness he's laying off the heavy cross hatching from last issue.

I'm a fan of Cary's. I support his exploration and growth. He grew a lot on this arc. It was his first time inking his own work. Those that complain about artist trying new techniques probably just don't understand what it's like to be a "creative for hire". If I had to make the same style video or animation every time I'd lose interest.

3) The Vine apparently never went up against anything but primitive worlds: They are horrible tacticians. Twice we've seen them just bum rush unarmed slaves and get defeated. In a prior issue, Aric leads them into woods and then sets it on fire. A Vine general comments "In all my wars, I have never seen anything like this." He's never seen burning trees? No wonder they got fooled.

The "unarmed slaves" were armed and they had Aric in the XO armor on their side.

When the general said he hadn't seen anything like that, I don't think he was referring to the burning trees, but rather the firepower of the XO armor and the resulting slaughter of his troops.

4) Okay, so what's the deal with the green flash from the right hand? I think we saw it three times in the first few pages. Is it merely a visual device to make a panel look more grandiose? Or does it have some actual significance?

I think the green energy signature means he has either just fired or is preparing to fire from that forearm mounted cannon.

5) And lastly, while the title is certainly more operatic than it's original namesake, it has none of the charm the VH1 version has. Aric is a cookie-cutter warrior with little characterization or personality.

I disagree 100%. This run has none of the cheese-factor of the 90s title. I recently re-read the 90s XO and I prefer this version of Aric. It was ridiculous seeing the old Aric crouching behind a bush and acting like a caveman. Some of it was charming, but much of it was cheesy. I agree with Vinditty's take on Aric as the educated warrior. He was being groomed to be king after all. He wouldn't be a simpleton.

I dunno, maybe I'm in a funk tonight. I like the title but not as much as I hoped I would.

Hope today is better!

[jmatt]

VDitti really mapped the story out well in advance when you look at it now

No argument there. It's apparent that he plotted out everything we've seen to date and the upcoming "return to Earth arc" before issue #1 hit the shelf.

[jmatt]

I for one am glad Aric made allies and didn't blindly murder millions. I wouldn't respect the architect of a genocide, alien or human.

And as I stated, I don't mind that either. But then don't call it something as ballsy as Planet Death...

The "unarmed slaves" were armed and they had Aric in the XO armor on their side.

X-O aside, these are penned slaves in loincloths armed with pitchforks going up against a race that can build a galactic fleet. Sure, Aric can tip the scales but I don't think it's unfair to say you'd have to be really bad at ground warfare to not have performed at least a little better than they did.

I disagree 100%. This run has none of the cheese-factor of the 90s title.

Cheese, charm. You say potato, I say pa-tat-o...

[hunter_peterson]

I for one am glad Aric made allies and didn't blindly murder millions. I wouldn't respect the architect of a genocide, alien or human.

And as I stated, I don't mind that either. But then don't call it something as ballsy as Planet Death...

The "unarmed slaves" were armed and they had Aric in the XO armor on their side.

X-O aside, these are penned slaves in loincloths armed with pitchforks going up against a race that can build a galactic fleet. Sure, Aric can tip the scales but I don't think it's unfair to say you'd have to be really bad at ground warfare to not have performed at least a little better than they did.

I disagree 100%. This run has none of the cheese-factor of the 90s title.

Cheese, charm. You say potato, I say pa-tat-o...

Of course, if you think about it, the Vine has absolutely no reason to be good at ground warfare. They do espionage, baby-swapping and abductions. They pretty much never do actual assaults. I'm actually pretty sure that the military was geared more towards maintaining the chains of the slaves, as opposed to fighting other soldiers. You have to remember they didn't do that well when they captured Aric the first time- only when they brought out an indestructible mech did they win.

I think that's interesting for a few reasons. One, it means that the highly probably ongoing threat of Vine Planting terror and espionage cells will be more effective at that than the soldiers were at head-on confronting Aric. Two, that the Torment or something like them are likely a bigger bad waiting in the wings for the book in the future. And three, that the forces of Earth pose a similar or greater threat than the Vine, making him not overpowered in that setting.

So yeah... the Vine weren't playing to their strengths in Planet Death, and I think we'll see the, address that in the future.

[BugsySig]

I for one am glad Aric made allies and didn't blindly murder millions. I wouldn't respect the architect of a genocide, alien or human.

And as I stated, I don't mind that either. But then don't call it something as ballsy as Planet Death...

The "unarmed slaves" were armed and they had Aric in the XO armor on their side.

X-O aside, these are penned slaves in loincloths armed with pitchforks going up against a race that can build a galactic fleet. Sure, Aric can tip the scales but I don't think it's unfair to say you'd have to be really bad at ground warfare to not have performed at least a little better than they did.

I disagree 100%. This run has none of the cheese-factor of the 90s title.

Cheese, charm. You say potato, I say pa-tat-o...

Of course, if you think about it, the Vine has absolutely no reason to be good at ground warfare. They do espionage, baby-swapping and abductions. They pretty much never do actual assaults. I'm actually pretty sure that the military was geared more towards maintaining the chains of the slaves, as opposed to fighting other soldiers. You have to remember they didn't do that well when they captured Aric the first time- only when they brought out an indestructible mech did they win.

I think that's interesting for a few reasons. One, it means that the highly probably ongoing threat of Vine Planting terror and espionage cells will be more effective at that than the soldiers were at head-on confronting Aric. Two, that the Torment or something like them are likely a bigger bad waiting in the wings for the book in the future. And three, that the forces of Earth pose a similar or greater threat than the Vine, making him not overpowered in that setting.

So yeah... the Vine weren't playing to their strengths in Planet Death, and I think we'll see the, address that in the future.

It also makes sense that a civilization at that level of technology would not be very good at ground warfare. Their most likely strategy is to obliterate a planet from space. Then, if they want to hold the planet, I suppose they could send in troops, but again they would be dependent on their technology and not tactics. In this case, not only were they out-strategized, they were facing a more powerful technology.

[erwinrafael]

I for one am glad Aric made allies and didn't blindly murder millions. I wouldn't respect the architect of a genocide, alien or human.

And as I stated, I don't mind that either. But then don't call it something as ballsy as Planet Death...

The "unarmed slaves" were armed and they had Aric in the XO armor on their side.

X-O aside, these are penned slaves in loincloths armed with pitchforks going up against a race that can build a galactic fleet. Sure, Aric can tip the scales but I don't think it's unfair to say you'd have to be really bad at ground warfare to not have performed at least a little better than they did.

I disagree 100%. This run has none of the cheese-factor of the 90s title.

Cheese, charm. You say potato, I say pa-tat-o...

Of course, if you think about it, the Vine has absolutely no reason to be good at ground warfare. They do espionage, baby-swapping and abductions. They pretty much never do actual assaults. I'm actually pretty sure that the military was geared more towards maintaining the chains of the slaves, as opposed to fighting other soldiers. You have to remember they didn't do that well when they captured Aric the first time- only when they brought out an indestructible mech did they win.

I think that's interesting for a few reasons. One, it means that the highly probably ongoing threat of Vine Planting terror and espionage cells will be more effective at that than the soldiers were at head-on confronting Aric. Two, that the Torment or something like them are likely a bigger bad waiting in the wings for the book in the future. And three, that the forces of Earth pose a similar or greater threat than the Vine, making him not overpowered in that setting.

So yeah... the Vine weren't playing to their strengths in Planet Death, and I think we'll see the, address that in the future.

It also makes sense that a civilization at that level of technology would not be very good at ground warfare. Their most likely strategy is to obliterate a planet from space. Then, if they want to hold the planet, I suppose they could send in troops, but again they would be dependent on their technology and not tactics. In this case, not only were they out-strategized, they were facing a more powerful technology.

I think they are also severely weakened militarily with Gafti decimating their space fleet and Aric destroying a lot of their remaining troops in the past two issues. They had a strategy against the armor in the second issue of Planet Death - immobilizing Aric by grabbing him by the limbs. It would be interesting to see if somebody would employ a similar tactic in the future.

[Knightt]

good issue... thought things were wrapped up really well... may fav xo comic so far I think. I'm hoping after the two issue gilad arc we get an arc where Aric has time to just chill and reflect so we can get more on his characther and his mind now that he is in this new world

I could not agree more. I don't get the feeling of any significance in the stories once Aric gained the armor. I really enjoyed back in VH1 when Aric was learning the armor and how it communicated with him. New peers were explained and you read about the moment Aric learned of them. Maybe I'm old school but I liked those corny "Ho... this is good skin indeed" moments.

So far it's been like walking into a gunfight and when I ask "Who are we fighting ?", I'm told "Shut up and start shooting."

Storytelling... it's an art.

[jmatt]

Maybe I'm old school but I liked those corny "Ho... this is good skin indeed" moments.

Same. It was fun. But I understand there are two camps on the matter.

[Knightt]

And what are they?

[Ramses818]

So I waited a few extra days to read this book and I stayed away from all the previews and threads...I am so glad I did! The issue was excellent! The art I felt was much better. The cover blew me away! I love how bright and strong it was. Did anyone else have a hard time getting the regular cover? I was at 4 stores and they all had the 8 bit but not the regular covers. Did anyone else notice that? Anyway the story was a very strong finish and while Aric walked away a hero it is obvious he has a lot to learn, and I think that is setting up some great problems. As we have seen he does not deal with hard choices well and his Brashness will come back to haunt him I believe. Great book though.

[jmatt]

And what are they?

People who prefer the overt verbal and social anachronisms and people who don't.

[Blood of Heroes]

good issue... thought things were wrapped up really well... may fav xo comic so far I think. I'm hoping after the two issue gilad arc we get an arc where Aric has time to just chill and reflect so we can get more on his characther and his mind now that he is in this new world

I could not agree more. I don't get the feeling of any significance in the stories once Aric gained the armor. I really enjoyed back in VH1 when Aric was learning the armor and how it communicated with him. New peers were explained and you read about the moment Aric learned of them. Maybe I'm old school but I liked those corny "Ho... this is good skin indeed" moments.

So far it's been like walking into a gunfight and when I ask "Who are we fighting ?", I'm told "Shut up and start shooting."

Storytelling... it's an art.

Shut up and start shooting!!!

[CallMeBloodshot]

wait, why are this going to be no time dilation for when Aric returns to Earth?

Shouldn't it be like many years, maybe even hundreds, in the future by the time they arrive at Earth?


I hope they explain this.

[BugsySig]

wait, why are this going to be no time dilation for when Aric returns to Earth?

Shouldn't it be like many years, maybe even hundreds, in the future by the time they arrive at Earth?


I hope they explain this.

There was time dilation on the Colony Ship because they travel at near-light or sub-light speed, likely so they can find habitable planets to take slaves from and leave Plantings behind. When Aric travelled to Loam, and again now back to Earth, he travelled via faster than light speed/hyperdrive. Therefore no time dilation on those trips.

[hawkeyeps]

wait, why are this going to be no time dilation for when Aric returns to Earth?

Shouldn't it be like many years, maybe even hundreds, in the future by the time they arrive at Earth?


I hope they explain this.

There was time dilation on the Colony Ship because they travel at near-light or sub-light speed, likely so they can find habitable planets to take slaves from and leave Plantings behind. When Aric travelled to Loam, and again now back to Earth, he travelled via faster than light speed/hyperdrive. Therefore no time dilation on those trips.

Why would Shanhara be on some sub light slave ship?

You would think it would be on Loam likely close to the Hara vine.

What's up with that? Why was the armour even there in the first place?

If the armour was placed on some colony/slave ship for whatever reason it would have been at 1600 years ago or longer.

What would have lead the Vine to do this that long ago? Did the armour some how will it as it was aware it could not bond with the Vine as the Senator dude said?

I never gave it much thought before (even in V1 XO) but now that I think of it it's very weird that a culture's most sacred object/deity would be floating around on a colony ship, there has to be a reason for it.

[BugsySig]

wait, why are this going to be no time dilation for when Aric returns to Earth?

Shouldn't it be like many years, maybe even hundreds, in the future by the time they arrive at Earth?


I hope they explain this.

There was time dilation on the Colony Ship because they travel at near-light or sub-light speed, likely so they can find habitable planets to take slaves from and leave Plantings behind. When Aric travelled to Loam, and again now back to Earth, he travelled via faster than light speed/hyperdrive. Therefore no time dilation on those trips.

Why would Shanhara be on some sub light slave ship?

You would think it would be on Loam likely close to the Hara vine.

What's up with that? Why was the armour even there in the first place?

If the armour was placed on some colony/slave ship for whatever reason it would have been at 1600 years ago or longer.

What would have lead the Vine to do this that long ago? Did the armour some how will it as it was aware it could not bond with the Vine as the Senator dude said?

I never gave it much thought before (even in V1 XO) but now that I think of it it's very weird that a culture's most sacred object/deity would be floating around on a colony ship, there has to be a reason for it.

Seems like the Colony Ships were where the Priests resided, so they took their religious relic with them. They had taken a vow never to return to Loam (a story worth exploring in the future) and instead spread their religion amongst the stars (via the Plantings). Meanwhile, the powers that be used the Colony Ships to provide Loam with slaves.

[dave]

Shouldn't Turok have been on the cover?

[hawkeyeps]

That makes sense, thanks Bugs.

But I still wonder what motivated the priests, as you say I think that is a story worth exploring as is the whole origin of Shanhara and the "wanderer from faraway".

XO #0

[BugsySig]

That makes sense, thanks Bugs.

But I still wonder what motivated the priests, as you say I think that is a story worth exploring as is the whole origin of Shanhara and the "wanderer from faraway".

XO #0

So if it ends up being Aric (or Ivar or someone else) who was the wanderer from the Faraway, its possible that person then set into motion the events that would lead Shanhara and Aric together by ordering the Vine out into space, and to take Shanhara with them.

[hawkeyeps]

That makes sense, thanks Bugs.

But I still wonder what motivated the priests, as you say I think that is a story worth exploring as is the whole origin of Shanhara and the "wanderer from faraway".

XO #0

So if it ends up being Aric (or Ivar or someone else) who was the wanderer from the Faraway, its possible that person then set into motion the events that would lead Shanhara and Aric together by ordering the Vine out into space, and to take Shanhara with them.

Erica Pierce

[erwinrafael]

Is Venditti being cute when he named the Vine homeworld as Loam? Because it sounds like Rome, so Planet Death becomes a play on The Sacking of Rome (in this case, The Sacking of Loam).

[CallMeBloodshot]

wait, why are this going to be no time dilation for when Aric returns to Earth?

Shouldn't it be like many years, maybe even hundreds, in the future by the time they arrive at Earth?


I hope they explain this.

There was time dilation on the Colony Ship because they travel at near-light or sub-light speed, likely so they can find habitable planets to take slaves from and leave Plantings behind. When Aric travelled to Loam, and again now back to Earth, he travelled via faster than light speed/hyperdrive. Therefore no time dilation on those trips.

Wait how does traveling at light speed change the whole time space relativity thing? Shouldn't the same laws apply? Basically I mean shouldn't MORE time have passed on earth since he's moving faster in space than before?

[BugsySig]

wait, why are this going to be no time dilation for when Aric returns to Earth?

Shouldn't it be like many years, maybe even hundreds, in the future by the time they arrive at Earth?


I hope they explain this.

There was time dilation on the Colony Ship because they travel at near-light or sub-light speed, likely so they can find habitable planets to take slaves from and leave Plantings behind. When Aric travelled to Loam, and again now back to Earth, he travelled via faster than light speed/hyperdrive. Therefore no time dilation on those trips.

Wait how does traveling at light speed change the whole time space relativity thing? Shouldn't the same laws apply? Basically I mean shouldn't MORE time have passed on earth since he's moving faster in space than before?

Chiclo could explain better, but when you travel through hyperspace, or through a wormhole, you are traveling from Point A to Point B in space instantaneously. So no time passes. When you travel at or near light speed, time loses meaning. It's all relative-ity

[hunter_peterson]

wait, why are this going to be no time dilation for when Aric returns to Earth?

Shouldn't it be like many years, maybe even hundreds, in the future by the time they arrive at Earth?


I hope they explain this.

There was time dilation on the Colony Ship because they travel at near-light or sub-light speed, likely so they can find habitable planets to take slaves from and leave Plantings behind. When Aric travelled to Loam, and again now back to Earth, he travelled via faster than light speed/hyperdrive. Therefore no time dilation on those trips.

Wait how does traveling at light speed change the whole time space relativity thing? Shouldn't the same laws apply? Basically I mean shouldn't MORE time have passed on earth since he's moving faster in space than before?

Like BugsySig said... with hyperdrive you essentially AREN'T moving through space- you're moving between two static points. Because it's "now" all across the universe, if you do it this way you stay in the present of your place of origin if you travel in this way both ways. But if you just travel directly time bends because you're moving through space and distorting it, so when you get home centuries will have passed.

That's why Aric found himself out of time, even though he used hyperdrive to get back. Those 1600 years were lost to slavery, not to the trip home. And seeing as Shanhara likely made him aware of this when it downloaded info to him, it makes a lot of sense that he was cosmically *SQUEE* off...

[Chiclo]

wait, why are this going to be no time dilation for when Aric returns to Earth?

Shouldn't it be like many years, maybe even hundreds, in the future by the time they arrive at Earth?


I hope they explain this.

There was time dilation on the Colony Ship because they travel at near-light or sub-light speed, likely so they can find habitable planets to take slaves from and leave Plantings behind. When Aric travelled to Loam, and again now back to Earth, he travelled via faster than light speed/hyperdrive. Therefore no time dilation on those trips.

Wait how does traveling at light speed change the whole time space relativity thing? Shouldn't the same laws apply? Basically I mean shouldn't MORE time have passed on earth since he's moving faster in space than before?

Chiclo could explain better, but when you travel through hyperspace, or through a wormhole, you are traveling from Point A to Point B in space instantaneously. So no time passes. When you travel at or near light speed, time loses meaning. It's all relative-ity

Hyperspace does not work that way!

When Aric was travelling on the vine colony ship, it is entirely possible that they were moving at 99.999% (or even closer to) the speed of light. When you move at such significant portions of the speed of light, time starts moving more slowly for you and more quickly around you. Aric may have spent 7 to 10 years on the ship and 1600 years pass around him. Where was the ship going? From what the vine have said, it is unlikely that the colony ship was going back to Loam after it picked up Aric and it was likely following some exploratory course and when Aric broke out of the ship, it is possible that that course just happened to be within our solar system, close enough that he could get to Earth rather quickly without having to move at relativistic speeds (some significant fraction of the speed of light).

When a ship or other object would accelerate to close to the speed of light, several things happen. First, the relativistic mass becomes greater than the resting mass of the vessel. This basically means that as an object moves at some significant fraction of the speed of light, it gains in mass. As an object gains in mass, it requires more energy to accelerate/gain in speed. The closer an object gets to the speed of light, the more the relativistic mass and the more energy that is required to make it go even faster. There is no finite boundary to this growth and mathematically, it would require an infinite amount of energy to make even a speck of dust go faster than the speed of light. The problem is that there is a finite supply of energy and even if all the energy in the universe were used and then all the remaining (yet finite) matter in the universe were converted to energy and that added, we could not push that little speck of dust to or beyond the speed of light.

If, however, you could somehow do it, the time dilation (the effect where time passes more slowly for you and more quickly around you when traveling at relativistic speeds) would finally stop time when an object reached light speed and time would start going backwards as an object moved faster than the speed of light.

Two ways that are commonly shown for traveling within the universe at greater than light speed are hyperspace and warp drive. Warp drive works a lot like the wing of an aircraft but in the fabric of space. Space is compacted ahead of the vessel and stretched behind it and the object moves forward at a non-relativistic speed within its own frame of reference even though it is moving faster than light in the regular universe. This is how Captains Kirk or Picard can take their vessels to the stars to punch Romulans in the face. Hyperspace (while not being instantaneous) involves leaving the universe for another space. If the hyperspace works properly, the two spots that correspond to points A and B in a journey are closer in this other space than they are in our universe and the journey is quicker. Another kicker about this is that when you leave the universe, you also leave our reckoning of time so the time of the vessel's journey in the other universe does not necessarily correspond to how long it took to get from A to B within our universe. Star Wars and Babylon 5 commonly use hyperspace to travel between their stars.

Well, if you have any more questions, I will do my best to answer them. I know I have explained this all better before but who knows where those threads are.