Eternal Warrior #4 Discussion

[Carson]

VEI, please stop turning the heroes into anti-heroes. Aram sleeps with Archer's girlfriend. Archer has gone from an innocent kid into a surly cynic. Shadowman now has a murderous background. Aric is still a bull-headed buffoon. Gilad is trying to murder Mother Nature. Bloodshot enslaved children, and HardCorps members have killed a few. Where are the good guys? Okay, now I bummed myself out. Sorry.

Don't forget Pete forced Kris to love him and potentially did the dirty with her while she was under his spell.

[BugsySig]

VEI, please stop turning the heroes into anti-heroes. Aram sleeps with Archer's girlfriend. Archer has gone from an innocent kid into a surly cynic. Shadowman now has a murderous background. Aric is still a bull-headed buffoon. Gilad is trying to murder Mother Nature. Bloodshot enslaved children, and HardCorps members have killed a few. Where are the good guys? Okay, now I bummed myself out. Sorry.

Don't forget Pete forced Kris to love him and potentially did the dirty with her while she was under his spell.

But so did VH1 Pete (more or less). It's not like all these characters were cut and dry good and bad in their original incarnations. Archer was an assassin who spent his whole life training to kill his own parents (who, granted, were a$$holes) and then signed right up to kill someone he didn't even know. Armstrong was a hopeless drunk (much more so than this version if you ask me). Bloodshot and EW were always walking a fine line, as well.

[iwantvaliant]

I wouldn't describe them as anti-heroes. They're realistic.

[jmatt]

Well, I'll admit that my post was crankier than I meant it to be. I'm just having a hard time liking or rooting for Gilad in his opening title arc.

[SJS4]

Gilad was my favorite character from the original Valiant. So far i have mixed opinions on this series.

I really dig Hairsines art, but the character barely resembles the original. The original was born Immortal and chose to use his long life for a purpose. This Gilad is only immortal in as much as he serves "The Earth" (which is really just one of a bunch of houses of "Gods").

The story is kind of "meh" so far. If the title was something other than "Eternal Warrior" i don't think i would keep buying it. It seems like there is a really complicated backstory here, but the writer isn't giving us much about it. Hopefully this series gets better as it goes.

I was really looking forward to this title (more than any other from VEI).

[Carson]

I too have reservations having now completed the first arc. It is vastly different, and I'm not convinced it's different for the better. I loved the historical start of each of the old books, and seeing how EW affected various world changing events. Instead, most of the flashbacks in this arc were spent setting up the son and daughter.

Hell, maybe the son and daughter will evolve into characters I care about, but for now I just feel like they are stealing valuable pages that could've been spent telling interesting historical stories.

We'll see where this goes. I am EXTREMELY excited to see 4001 next issue, and i thought the segue between #4 and #5 was very clever.

P.S. The comic shop guy loves the new Valiant and didn't read Valiant in the 90s. He loved the first EW arc. So, I hope that means it's just my attachment to the old that has prompted my dissatisfaction with the first arc of the new.

[dornwolf]

I think some have way over thought the retirerment thing. Gilad is no longer the sword for earth and no longer fights her battles that doesn't stop him from going into battle due to the otherside being dicks

[BugsySig]

I think some have way over thought the retirerment thing. Gilad is no longer the sword for earth and no longer fights her battles that doesn't stop him from going into battle due to the otherside being dicks

That was my argument too, but it says in the summary he was tired of fighting. If we are to take the summary as cannon (and maybe we can't because they are not written by the writers of the book typically) then the two don't reconcile.

[hunter_peterson]

I think some have way over thought the retirerment thing. Gilad is no longer the sword for earth and no longer fights her battles that doesn't stop him from going into battle due to the otherside being dicks

That was my argument too, but it says in the summary he was tired of fighting. If we are to take the summary as cannon (and maybe we can't because they are not written by the writers of the book typically) then the two don't reconcile.

It really would make it more clear if they threw a "for the Earth" after the tired of fighting part.

I thought this issue consolidated the arc and ended it on a solid 4/5. The tease for 4001 was awesome, can't wait for that. I think this series will just get better and better... with a more consistent artist. Hairsine is good, but he needs time to keep his consistency up. I'd be interested to see Luppachino on this book, actually.

[lorddunlow]

Well, I'll admit that my post was crankier than I meant it to be. I'm just having a hard time liking or rooting for Gilad in his opening title arc.

It's okay, you can't help being a grumpy old fart.

As for liking Gilad, I'm definitely rooting for him. Mother Nature has always been a *SQUEE*.

[lorddunlow]

Also, I think they are working with the EW corner of the universe to appeal to fantasy fans. It's part of why I'm liking it so much. That does sort of break the idea of "world outside your window", but that was VH1, not VEI who has not seemed to follow that so much. The A&A world and EW seems much more fantastical than the Bloodshot/Harbinger/X-O part of the universe.

[grendeljd]

I enjoyed this issue, and overall with this opening arc I would say I like the new concepts introduced to the EW mythos by Pak. The various houses have potential to be very interesting as the series progresses, provided we don't get more convoluted plot lines with confusing (apparent) contradictions to flesh them out.

My main concern regarding the houses is that I hope they don't lean too heavily on the idea of all sorts of 'gods' running around the Valiant U - it's a bit too sword&sorcery for a modern book. I can accept the idea of powerful beings & spirits existing, such as the Loa in Shadowman & a Gaia spirit, et al - but my gut feeling is that they need to be handled carefully. For example, I loved Van Lentes concept of how the Earth entity appeared to Kay in her mind.

As someone mentioned in a post above, it really comes down to a careful choice of words when describing this stuff. I'm not trying to be overly negative in my critique here, I just want to get the feeling that the creators care as much about these characters as we all do. Generally I believe they do, I would just like to see some of the rough edges get smoothed out on this title.

And to comment on the blowing up of the tree - I saw it as more symbolic, just as The Earth goddess' appearance was. It was a place of power, certainly, but I doubt it was meant to be something so simple as 'the one spot on planet earth where you can kill the spirit of the world' type thing.

The roots of the tree as a prison for Nergal reminded me a little of a concept from Steven Erickson's 'Malazan' series of books - the 'House of the Azath' were living, organic houses that grew in locations of concentrated, wild, uncontrolled magic, and they would trap any creature or being that was too powerful in a root system under the grounds surrounding the house. Cool stuff, but again - that's from a Fantasy novel, not a modern setting with various meta-humans. Distinct descriptive language choices are going to make a big difference here.

One other detail that I haven't quite decided if I like - the fact that Buck is so long-lived, relatively speaking. EW retires for a hundred years & Buck looks essentially the same... So are the geomancers now possessed of a shade of immortality? I don't mind the idea, actually - it suits them as avatars of earth, but it's a new thing (isn't it?).

[grendeljd]

Also, I think they are working with the EW corner of the universe to appeal to fantasy fans. It's part of why I'm liking it so much. That does sort of break the idea of "world outside your window", but that was VH1, not VEI who has not seemed to follow that so much. The A&A world and EW seems much more fantastical than the Bloodshot/Harbinger/X-O part of the universe.

I literally just posted the opposite opinion on the Fantasy element of the book so far!

[jmatt]

My main concern regarding the houses is that I hope they don't lean too heavily on the idea of all sorts of 'gods' running around the Valiant U - it's a bit too sword&sorcery for a modern book. I can accept the idea of powerful beings & spirits existing, such as the Loa in Shadowman & a Gaia spirit, et al - but my gut feeling is that they need to be handled carefully.

Yeah, I've been thinking about this the last few days: The concept of the Houses is a big, game changing element for the Valiant universe. And I like the potential, we need more villains. Bloodshot taking on The Wheel? SM taking on Nergal?

It may be unsettling to us older fans to see something so dramatically different but I think it will open some doors. We need more villains. As I reread my original Avengers run each night I marvel at the pantheon of bad guys they dreamed up: Baron Zemo and his Masters of Evil, the Circus of Crime, the Zodiac, the Collector, Loki, Dormammu, Krees and Skrulls (and the Super Skrull), the Super-Adaptoid, the Space Phantom, Atuma, etc etc.

Okay, they're a tad goofier than we'd expect to see in modern comics but you get the idea.

[SJS4]

One other detail that I haven't quite decided if I like - the fact that Buck is so long-lived, relatively speaking. EW retires for a hundred years & Buck looks essentially the same... So are the geomancers now possessed of a shade of immortality? I don't mind the idea, actually - it suits them as avatars of earth, but it's a new thing (isn't it?).

In the old valiant Geomancers lived much longer than normal people. Buck was the geomancer from the mid 1800's right up until the 1990's. But he definitely aged during that time.

[leonmallett]

Hmm.

I have enjoyed Eternal Warrior from issue 1 through 3, but this 4th issue had me scratching my head. It felt like a confused mess, and on first reading I am not sure why certain things actually happened. There seemed some gaps to me in the story in this issue, that maybe Pak can see clearly and we cannot. I may find on re-reading that I pick up what I missed previously, but won't know until I read all 4 issues together I think

If this first arc is about providing a template for the Eternal Warrior and associated mythos, then I think we have had hints at the Houses which is cool (but we need more clarity I feel, and sooner than later); we have additional cast added with the kinds (always good for the long-term); we have a lead who has reluctantly returned to action (thus positioning the character and some of his conflicts).

So on balance, even though I thought this the weakest issue so far, I am still content with the book as a whole. I have liked the art, even with the mixing of styles. I do think the plotting could be a little clearer in rationalizing moving things from A to B to C, but hopefully that will come. And I do think we need more explanation or contextualization of the Houses as part of the wider VALIANT mythos at some point.

[grendeljd]

One other detail that I haven't quite decided if I like - the fact that Buck is so long-lived, relatively speaking. EW retires for a hundred years & Buck looks essentially the same... So are the geomancers now possessed of a shade of immortality? I don't mind the idea, actually - it suits them as avatars of earth, but it's a new thing (isn't it?).

In the old valiant Geomancers lived much longer than normal people. Buck was the geomancer from the mid 1800's right up until the 1990's. But he definitely aged during that time.

Thanks, that's good to know, it's cool then. I didn't read the original EW back in the day, I only read about geomancers where they cross-pollinated in the VH1 books I did read regularly (primarily Harbinger, Shadowman, & XO for the most part).

[Captain Craig]

In the old valiant Geomancers lived much longer than normal people. Buck was the geomancer from the mid 1800's right up until the 1990's. But he definitely aged during that time.

Do we know for sure that still doesn't hold true? I read over some dialogue?

[jmatt]

If this first arc is about providing a template for the Eternal Warrior and associated mythos, then I think we have had hints at the Houses which is cool (but we need more clarity I feel, and sooner than later); we have additional cast added with the kinds (always good for the long-term); we have a lead who has reluctantly returned to action (thus positioning the character and some of his conflicts).

I do think the plotting could be a little clearer in rationalizing moving things from A to B to C, but hopefully that will come. And I do think we need more explanation or contextualization of the Houses as part of the wider VALIANT mythos at some point.

I'll +1 this stuff.

I'm a little ambivalent about the revolt against Earth and the geomancer but I think there's a lot of upside to the Houses (just so long as the plotting is a little less confusing).

I guess my quibble with the arc is that it's not about what Gilad wants to be, it's about what he doesn't want to be. An Eternal Warrior that no longer wants to be a warrior? Can't we have a little Eternal Warrioring first? That's kind of a weak opening hand.

This arc would make more sense to me if it came in year three instead of Day One. I'm sure it was chosen because it's a more radical departure, but why not establish a baseline first?

[dornwolf]

I think some have way over thought the retirerment thing. Gilad is no longer the sword for earth and no longer fights her battles that doesn't stop him from going into battle due to the otherside being dicks

That was my argument too, but it says in the summary he was tired of fighting. If we are to take the summary as cannon (and maybe we can't because they are not written by the writers of the book typically) then the two don't reconcile.

Well the thing is with summarys is that they summarize they aren't supposed to explain the details just cover the basics. The basics being Gilad retiring from battle. Personally I think the summary would read a little weird if it said "Gilad retired from battle except that one time in the 1940's and once or twice as a hippie.

It really would make it more clear if they threw a "for the Earth" after the tired of fighting part.

This would work.

[Mandrakk]

That was my argument too, but it says in the summary he was tired of fighting. If we are to take the summary as cannon (and maybe we can't because they are not written by the writers of the book typically) then the two don't reconcile.

Hmm...There is a future involved in the story,hence timestuff and that can always become tricky and this might be linked with the discrepencies we see between what transpires in EW and the A&A arc.

[leonmallett]

If this first arc is about providing a template for the Eternal Warrior and associated mythos, then I think we have had hints at the Houses which is cool (but we need more clarity I feel, and sooner than later); we have additional cast added with the kinds (always good for the long-term); we have a lead who has reluctantly returned to action (thus positioning the character and some of his conflicts).

I do think the plotting could be a little clearer in rationalizing moving things from A to B to C, but hopefully that will come. And I do think we need more explanation or contextualization of the Houses as part of the wider VALIANT mythos at some point.

I'll +1 this stuff.

I'm a little ambivalent about the revolt against Earth and the geomancer but I think there's a lot of upside to the Houses (just so long as the plotting is a little less confusing).

I guess my quibble with the arc is that it's not about what Gilad wants to be, it's about what he doesn't want to be. An Eternal Warrior that no longer wants to be a warrior? Can't we have a little Eternal Warrioring first? That's kind of a weak opening hand.

This arc would make more sense to me if it came in year three instead of Day One. I'm sure it was chosen because it's a more radical departure, but why not establish a baseline first?

I think you hit the nail on the head; the framing arc should be who Gilad is, not who he is isn't - well put.

[agent_graves]

OK, I'm just gonna say it. I have no idea what the @#*$&@ is going on.

Me neither, and Hairsine's art, is the worst I've ever seen it, smfh!!

If things don't improve with the next arc, I guess I'll get my EW fix, reading Unity...

[mateo107]

finally got to pick up my comics today. I'm sorry to say I was let down by this book's first arc, I couldn't really imagine handing it to a first time reader and expecting them to stick with it. it seemed to be trying to do everything except coherently introduce the character, I feel like I understand this version of Gilad less after reading this story. I think EW's appearances in the rest of the Valiant universe actually makes more sense if I pretend all this didn't happen. I just hope the book finds its way in 4001 AD.

[Dallow Spicer1]

I'm not getting the negativity at all in this thread - this was the strongest overall issue of the week IMO. I thought the art was strong throughout and the story much more focused than last weeks issue. I think Pak's skills as a writer were on full display as he linked the past with the present and brought the narrative full circle - Mitu fleshed out further as Gilad's favorite - sensitive and tragic person who now serves Death ... and Xaran as reckless and defiant as ever ... and Gilad had some great moments trying to reconcile all these revelations about his children.

I thought the narrative was focused and brought the arc to a satisfying end while building up anticipation for a 4001 arc that we now know will be focused on the potential release of Nergal.

I'm not sure where there would be confusion - Gilad and Xaran destroyed a tree that was trapping Nergal in his prison. Obviously we know they didn't actually kill the Earth Goddess.

+1 agreed!

I'm ok at 4 issues with not knowing where all of the plot lines are going in the book but I don't think the book is quite as confusing as some people find it. I thought this was a strong issue, particularly like the flashback scenes with Mithu as a boy and his sensitivity around killing animals.
Art was good too (except the last 2 pages, what happened there?).

Special mention for the La Rosa (close up cover) which I thought was excellent.

4/5 - enjoyed it!