Adv. of Archer & Armstrong #1 Discussion

[jmatt]

But a talking fish bothers you?

I think that the radical departure in the artwork from, say, Clayton Henry's issues ratcheted up the 'differentness' of the overall feel of the book. It's easier to digest gray aliens when they are drawn realistically (for lack of a better word); the high-flying concept is grounded by the art.

And Emilia Earhart, dinosaurs and Jim Morrison are all real things and personas, so that, too, allows the reader to buy into seeing them in fantasy circumstances.

So the art and the recognition of historical figures and pop-culture icons (like gray aliens) keep the story and the reader with at least some tether to reality.

Davey the Mackerel, on the other hand, is totally contrived. And when depicted in a very cartoony manner, seems even moreso.

So while I enjoyed the book (more or less) I can understand why it seems difficult to swallow, for some readers.

I would also add that the entire concept is very much Through The Looking Glass, with the characters literally entering a hole in the ground... "where anything can happen!" This is fine for Alice, because we haven't read 40 other issues where she wasn't in Wonderland.

But the change in art and the wholesale contrivance of the circumstances is asking established readers to cope with a degree of abstraction they have not encountered before. Not bad, just very different.

[hunter_peterson]

I liked this. It wasn't trying too hard to replicate the success of the past, and seems to be going into the things that weren't before. Which I think is a good direction. I hope to see more explanation of how all the crazy got put in the bag from Armstrong, but I figure that won't take long. And I thought Archer was written decently here, if a bit simplistically. He felt like him. Everyone did. They were just dealing with new stuff.

I was nervous about whether or not I would like it very glad I do.

[BugsySig]

But a talking fish bothers you?

I think that the radical departure in the artwork from, say, Clayton Henry's issues ratcheted up the 'differentness' of the overall feel of the book. It's easier to digest gray aliens when they are drawn realistically (for lack of a better word); the high-flying concept is grounded by the art.

And Emilia Earhart, dinosaurs and Jim Morrison are all real things and personas, so that, too, allows the reader to buy into seeing them in fantasy circumstances.

So the art and the recognition of historical figures and pop-culture icons (like gray aliens) keep the story and the reader with at least some tether to reality.

Davey the Mackerel, on the other hand, is totally contrived. And when depicted in a very cartoony manner, seems even moreso.

So while I enjoyed the book (more or less) I can understand why it seems difficult to swallow, for some readers.

I would also add that the entire concept is very much Through The Looking Glass, with the characters literally entering a hole in the ground... "where anything can happen!" This is fine for Alice, because we haven't read 40 other issues where she wasn't in Wonderland.

But the change in art and the wholesale contrivance of the circumstances is asking established readers to cope with a degree of abstraction they have not encountered before. Not bad, just very different.

I also wouldn't say it's much different from Ivar and Neela's trip through the multiverse (clown Vikings?, Dinosaur Roman Empire?) or Shadowman/Ninjak's trip to Deadside (which included a talking monkey).

I can see your point with the artistic depiction adding to the abstraction, as does putting a comedic spin on it, but the abstraction did not ruin the "reality" of the content for me.

I just think people saying this stuff is too "fantastic" or "unrealistic" is extremely off base comparatively. And that's from someone who was afraid this series was drifting too far into Q&W territory with the previews and teasers.

[Donovan]

Im curious to hear from Q&W haters who like AoA&A#1 what makes this book acceptable...

[Dallow Spicer1]

But a talking fish bothers you?

I think that the radical departure in the artwork from, say, Clayton Henry's issues ratcheted up the 'differentness' of the overall feel of the book. It's easier to digest gray aliens when they are drawn realistically (for lack of a better word); the high-flying concept is grounded by the art.

And Emilia Earhart, dinosaurs and Jim Morrison are all real things and personas, so that, too, allows the reader to buy into seeing them in fantasy circumstances.

So the art and the recognition of historical figures and pop-culture icons (like gray aliens) keep the story and the reader with at least some tether to reality.

Davey the Mackerel, on the other hand, is totally contrived. And when depicted in a very cartoony manner, seems even moreso.

So while I enjoyed the book (more or less) I can understand why it seems difficult to swallow, for some readers.

I would also add that the entire concept is very much Through The Looking Glass, with the characters literally entering a hole in the ground... "where anything can happen!" This is fine for Alice, because we haven't read 40 other issues where she wasn't in Wonderland.

But the change in art and the wholesale contrivance of the circumstances is asking established readers to cope with a degree of abstraction they have not encountered before. Not bad, just very different.

I also wouldn't say it's much different from Ivar and Neela's trip through the multiverse (clown Vikings?, Dinosaur Roman Empire?) or Shadowman/Ninjak's trip to Deadside (which included a talking monkey).

I can see your point with the artistic depiction adding to the abstraction, as does putting a comedic spin on it, but the abstraction did not ruin the "reality" of the content for me.

I just think people saying this stuff is too "fantastic" or "unrealistic" is extremely off base comparatively. And that's from someone who was afraid this series was drifting too far into Q&W territory with the previews and teasers.

I agree with both of you...in a sense. I wasn't a fan of the FVL stuff on either A&A or Ivar, whilst he has some interesting and enjoyable concepts he mixes it in with some nonsense too (eg many of the characters you both listed) which I think detracts from the Valiant U. Roberts version of A&A is no better/no worse so far. It's ok for me as long as it's contained to just this book.

My preference would be to have these goofy books (including Q&W) separate to the rest of the VEI so people who like that kind of thing can enjoy it whilst we don't have to worry about how Davie the Mackerel, the black box head people and the Hashish eaters, the thing with all the eyes in Ivar (?) etc can inhabit the same universe as Commander Trill, Harada, Divinity and so on!

I thought A&A #1 was a decent read, the art takes getting used to, sometimes I think I like it but other times it's too cartoony. I like that Valiant experiment so in that sense I supprt the book.

3/5

Anyone think this will go past 12 issues? Could it be an 8 issue series?

[jeremycoe]

Anyone think this will go past 12 issues? Could it be an 8 issue series?

I'm hoping for 25.

[BugsySig]

Anyone think this will go past 12 issues? Could it be an 8 issue series?

I'm hoping for 25.

Well the original pitch was for only 4 issues, but it was extended. Of course so was FVLs run and look how good that turned out?

[hunter_peterson]

But a talking fish bothers you?

I think that the radical departure in the artwork from, say, Clayton Henry's issues ratcheted up the 'differentness' of the overall feel of the book. It's easier to digest gray aliens when they are drawn realistically (for lack of a better word); the high-flying concept is grounded by the art.

And Emilia Earhart, dinosaurs and Jim Morrison are all real things and personas, so that, too, allows the reader to buy into seeing them in fantasy circumstances.

So the art and the recognition of historical figures and pop-culture icons (like gray aliens) keep the story and the reader with at least some tether to reality.

Davey the Mackerel, on the other hand, is totally contrived. And when depicted in a very cartoony manner, seems even moreso.

So while I enjoyed the book (more or less) I can understand why it seems difficult to swallow, for some readers.

I would also add that the entire concept is very much Through The Looking Glass, with the characters literally entering a hole in the ground... "where anything can happen!" This is fine for Alice, because we haven't read 40 other issues where she wasn't in Wonderland.

But the change in art and the wholesale contrivance of the circumstances is asking established readers to cope with a degree of abstraction they have not encountered before. Not bad, just very different.

I also wouldn't say it's much different from Ivar and Neela's trip through the multiverse (clown Vikings?, Dinosaur Roman Empire?) or Shadowman/Ninjak's trip to Deadside (which included a talking monkey).

I can see your point with the artistic depiction adding to the abstraction, as does putting a comedic spin on it, but the abstraction did not ruin the "reality" of the content for me.

I just think people saying this stuff is too "fantastic" or "unrealistic" is extremely off base comparatively. And that's from someone who was afraid this series was drifting too far into Q&W territory with the previews and teasers.

I agree with both of you...in a sense. I wasn't a fan of the FVL stuff on either A&A or Ivar, whilst he has some interesting and enjoyable concepts he mixes it in with some nonsense too (eg many of the characters you both listed) which I think detracts from the Valiant U. Roberts version of A&A is no better/no worse so far. It's ok for me as long as it's contained to just this book.

My preference would be to have these goofy books (including Q&W) separate to the rest of the VEI so people who like that kind of thing can enjoy it whilst we don't have to worry about how Davie the Mackerel, the black box head people and the Hashish eaters, the thing with all the eyes in Ivar (?) etc can inhabit the same universe as Commander Trill, Harada, Divinity and so on!

I thought A&A #1 was a decent read, the art takes getting used to, sometimes I think I like it but other times it's too cartoony. I like that Valiant experiment so in that sense I supprt the book.

3/5

Anyone think this will go past 12 issues? Could it be an 8 issue series?

The main flaw with this critique is that realism means embracing the ridiculous. Our world has both dead serious and completely insane things. Often right next to each other or at the same time. Having silly things happen in the same universe as serious things doesn't impact the realism at all. If anything, it improves it.

Especially in a world with superpowers, super science and magic. If it wasn't silly sometimes it would seem wrong.

[jmatt]

I also wouldn't say it's much different from Ivar and Neela's trip through the multiverse (clown Vikings?, Dinosaur Roman Empire?) or Shadowman/Ninjak's trip to Deadside (which included a talking monkey).

I can see your point with the artistic depiction adding to the abstraction, as does putting a comedic spin on it, but the abstraction did not ruin the "reality" of the content for me.

Agree completely. It would be interesting if we could see Henry draw this same exact issue and look at them side by side and gauge reader opinion.

[BugsySig]

I'll also say this: A lot of focus has been on Davey the Mackerel because he was included in some of the teasers and the bootleg covers, but the character only appeared in a few panels and was banished back to the satchel. He could reemerge, but it's not much different from the declarations about Darpan being this great new character and the kid has barely made an impact on the VALIANT Universe.

[jeremycoe]

I'll also say this: A lot of focus has been on Davey the Mackerel because he was included in some of the teasers and the bootleg covers, but the character only appeared in a few panels and was banished back to the satchel. He could reemerge, but it's not much different from the declarations about Darpan being this great new character and the kid has barely made an impact on the VALIANT Universe.

He re-emerges in a preview for issue #2.

[nutflush76]

Just read this tonight. I'm not sure what I think of it. I actually liked the art, I thought that the story seemed a little weak, and the humor was kind of forced. I'm not going to say that it was Dead drop bad, but it was definitely one of my lesser favorite books in all of VEI and I have read almost all of them so far. Since I get the valiant bundle from DCBS every month, I'll get the next issue no matter what.

But I don't have to be looking forward to it.

[dornwolf]

I didn't mind this. I'll give it the standard 4 issues and if it continues I'll go from there. Personally I think the art would probably be the biggest problem for someone. When compared to the other books that have been put out it's a complete u-turn in comparison. It's not bad, Marvel has similar titles on in universe books but again compared to the majority of Valiants titles it's odd.

[JCP]

I didn't mind this. I'll give it the standard 4 issues and if it continues I'll go from there. Personally I think the art would probably be the biggest problem for someone. When compared to the other books that have been put out it's a complete u-turn in comparison. It's not bad, Marvel has similar titles on in universe books but again compared to the majority of Valiants titles it's odd.

+1. I felt the same way. A book has to be truly bad for me to not give it at least a few issues. It's not FVL work but it was playful and fun as an alternative to other VEI goodies. You're right about the art. It seemed more like a comic strip than a comic book. All in all, it's definitely worthy of a few more issues to read and hopefully enjoy. Once it gets its sea legs maybe it'll get more and more entertaining.

[krylox]

super-meh. this might have been the weakest number one modern valiant, yet. even q+w had one or two decent moments. (full disclosure: haven't read drop dead, yet). this was kind of overwritten with no rhythm or flow or anything really, totally by the numbers. i mean, i can see, that the author is new and everything, also that he's trying. the idea was not that bad overall, but i am sorry to say that it didn't work at all. for me.
and if it's just about getting the hang of it: why would you greenlight this as a regular series instead of a mini?

i liked fvl's run on the title, though i didn't love quite as much as others. in retrospect, i can see its quality. i guess it's not an easy book to write. but those are too good characters to be wasted like that. i know i am ranting, but i am just a bit sad now, cause i know it will take quite some time until i'll get a good a&a book again, probably a few years from now.

[agent_graves]

I'm getting all the CGC replica covers, so I picked this one up, along with the 1:10, because it was cover price at my lcs. Needless to say, this book ain't for me. I did however, love the part where the granny-goblin, gave Archer the finger.

[nonplayer]

Archer made Armstrong sound totally stupid he put him down so much I would have pushed Archer and told him to flork off. As for the story it ain't bad. I found it interesting but not funny in any way. The art was decent. Really It's hard to be so negative towards a book after just one issue. Its not as wowing as in the first issue of blood shot as when he gets ripped apart on that one page spread. But it's not as confusing as Divinity one or as boring as wrath of the eternal warrior 1but I did enjoy Quantum and woody issue one more than this first issue. All in all I'd give it a 2.75 outta 5 letting the cat outta the bag. O wait fish! Entertaimos. It wasent horrible but wasent mind blowing.

[Big Red]

I really liked it.

I'll be back for more.

[Bl00dsh0t]

I really liked it.

I'll be back for more.

+1

me too, I gave this a chance and was very happy with it