Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer

cray_ws · Post by **cray_ws** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:07 am

paradise wrote:
cray_ws wrote: that "best margin" is temporary. Are you going suddenly order more Valiant books the next month? Probably not! Penetration is short term and you're taking the brunt of the risk. But keep defending this...you're wonderful VEI supporter.
Have you heard of FOC? One week after #1 comes out, retailers get to adjust their orders up or down, and then the #2 issue comes out 3 weeks later. So if the retailer sells a bunch of free #1s he can easily adjust up to fill demand.

Btw regarding your other statement, I opened my first store 21 years ago when I was 23 years old. And my second store 4 years ago. I am one of top 5 percent of Diamond accounts and, maybe, top 1 percent Valiant sales. So if you think I speak as a fan, you are a little off

Who's the biggest shop in the business? What's was their percentage of Diamond accounts when you started, and what is it now? How much have you gained on them? How many shops do you own? If you got more than one shop are they in different cities, or states? I'm sure you're proud of your 21 year survival of your little novelty shop, but I'd be more impressed if you actually had franchise chain of shops across the US that aren't toy havens for nerds.

paradise · Post by **paradise** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:15 am

cray_ws wrote:Who's the biggest shop in the business? What's was their percentage of Diamond accounts when you started, and what is it now? How much have you gained on them? How many shops do you own? If you got more than one shop are they in different cities, or states? I'm sure you're proud of your 21 year survival of your little novelty shop, but I'd be more impressed if you actually had franchise chain of shops across the US that aren't toy havens for nerds.

I don't have to tell you anything, but just in case you don't know what google is, here is a link: http://ComicsAndCards.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (plenty of photos and videos on there). Decide for yourself what type of "novelty" shops I own.

Oh, and try to respond to the statements on-topic that I made based on your idiotic comments.

lorddunlow · Post by **lorddunlow** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:18 am

Cray, man. You've jumped the shark. Shut up while you still can.

DirtbagSailor · Post by **DirtbagSailor** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:20 am

cray_ws wrote:Stop saying Ed is a smart guy, that doesn't nullify any argument. He might know the ins and out of his little shop, but it is not to be mistaken as business sense. I sure in hell wouldn't want the publisher to push any unwanted hassle on me so they can make a quick buck. We already agreed in this thread that vast majority don't even order enough Valiant books! They are going deal with bigger hassle than Ed.

I'm really sorry, I might come off like real jerk to Ed. He's a nice guy and all, but this is not good business.

Valiant isn't trying to make a quick buck on anyone. They are not making millions of dollars on a 1,000-2,000 issue print run. They have a goal in-mind; expand their presence in the larger market. They want more LCS's to get on-board to help expand Valiant's visibility leading into the next few years where films and media will be set further into motion.

I doubt Valiant is sitting around flipping coins or reading chicken guts for spiritual guidance on how to do this. They have a LOT more information to pull from than we do. Like it or not, they are making a calculated move, and (I suspect) it will achieve the goal they are looking to achieve.

They need to increase the number of people out there who know who/what Valiant is. Their efforts appear to be focused on reaching a larger number of new LCS’s, new fans, and new collectors.

“Good” and “Bad” are subjective words to describe how we feel or do not feel about something (e.g. this business move).

Effectiveness of the movie is what Valiant will consider most, and we won’t know the effectiveness until later on. We will need to pay attention, track, and observe for that info.

Ed has seen many similar deals in the past, from a perspective that we as non-LCS owners usually don’t have.

paradise · Post by **paradise** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:23 am

cray_ws wrote: Stop saying Ed is a smart guy, that doesn't nullify any argument. He might know the ins and out of his little shop, but it is not to be mistaken as business sense. I sure in hell wouldn't want the publisher to push any unwanted hassle on me so they can make a quick buck. We already agreed in this thread that vast majority don't even order enough Valiant books! They are going deal with bigger hassle than Ed.

I'm really sorry, I might come off like real jerk to Ed. He's a nice guy and all, but this is not good business.

So, you are saying that I am on purpose doing bad business? That's *SQUEE*. I should not order more books, to get them cheaper and to sell them w/out risk, because of a hassle of returning them? Putting them into a box, and slapping a label on them? dude, I do worldwide mail order, I ship 20-30 packages a DAY! That's part of my "novelty" business that includes 2 stores that are known nation wide, an ebay store, an amazon store, my own website that has a ton of exclusive items from many publishers, and a bunch of employees. If that's "novelty" then i will accept that i am a novelty retailer.

here is my prediction. You will make a ton of noise because that's the type of person you are. then you will quietly buy the book and enjoy it, never mind the fact that you have shat all over the publisher, retailers and fans. that's just your THING. Good luck.

Aomalle27 · Post by **Aomalle27** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:34 am

I don't see what the big deal is?! Then again I've established a relationship with my LCS; and they hooked me up. I'm sure there are plenty of customers paradise has serviced over the years, no problem; plus he also offers opportunities to hook up fans here; so he's going beyond his regulars to help others.... Though I use Graham Crackers; they're my LCS down the street; I wouldn't hesitate to use Paradise either ( I did for Unity) Try establishing a relationship with your LCS and you shouldn't have a problem

lorddunlow · Post by **lorddunlow** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:44 am

Aomalle27 wrote:I don't see what the big deal is?! Then again I've established a relationship with my LCS; and they hooked me up. I'm sure there are plenty of customers paradise has serviced over the years, no problem; plus he also offers opportunities to hook up fans here; so he's going beyond his regulars to help others.... Though I use Graham Crackers; they're my LCS down the street; I wouldn't hesitate to use Paradise either ( I did for Unity) Try establishing a relationship with your LCS and you shouldn't have a problem

The big deal is not many of us have the luxury of a big LCS nearby (or an LCS at all) that will hook us up.

erwinrafael · Post by **erwinrafael** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:49 am

so how much is the best deal for this FVL book on the geomancers?

cray_ws · Post by **cray_ws** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:39 am

paradise wrote:So, you are saying that I am on purpose doing bad business? That's *SQUEE*. I should not order more books, to get them cheaper and to sell them w/out risk, because of a hassle of returning them? Putting them into a box, and slapping a label on them? dude, I do worldwide mail order, I ship 20-30 packages a DAY! That's part of my "novelty" business that includes 2 stores that are known nation wide, an ebay store, an amazon store, my own website that has a ton of exclusive items from many publishers, and a bunch of employees. If that's "novelty" then i will accept that i am a novelty retailer.

here is my prediction. You will make a ton of noise because that's the type of person you are. then you will quietly buy the book and enjoy it, never mind the fact that you have shat all over the publisher, retailers and fans. that's just your THING. Good luck.

Sadly I've never heard of your shop until I looked at your signature link. I don't think a non-comic book reader can tell you the name of the largest comic book dealer. Which goes to show you how irrelevant your boasts are about your business. Don't feel bad because Comic Book shops in general have worse recognition than publishers. The general public has heard of Marvel and DC and even some might know Valiant before they would hazard a guess of the name of any comic book shop. Book store chains...everyone can list at least 3 major chains Barns & Noble, Borders, and of course Amazon. But comic book shops....yeah 20-30 packages a day. I'm sorry but I'm not impressed. What do you think Amazon does for book sales on their worst day? more than 20-30 packages that's for sure. Why am I comparing your little shop to massive site like Amazon? Because they started 20 years ago like you and was just a bookstore. So you went from selling comics to MTG, while they went from books to everything else. It's apples and oranges comparison, but it also paints a very big picture of how feeble the comic book shop business is. I know it's tough, and it's going be tougher in the digital age. I see you've partnered with Comixology, that's smart for now. I hope you realize that's a temporary fix, because soon as someone sees a business opportunity they are going upstage comixology. When there's money to be made, there's an opportunity waiting to happen. Somebody is going steal Comixology share of the digital market. But you just keep shipping those 20-30 packages a day.

As for me, yeah I will buy the book if I have access to it digitally and I won't spend any more than I already do for valiant comics. I am within my rights to "shat" on Valiant and dealers because whether you wanna admit it or not, this is raw deal for consumers and it's bad business. I have supported VEI with my money...I pretty much have bought everything they have released, that should be good enough. I don't to kiss their proverbial *SQUEE* or play publisher cheerleader. I am here for the stories.

DirtbagSailor · Post by **DirtbagSailor** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:07 am

erwinrafael wrote:so how much is the best deal for this FVL book on the geomancers?

Midtown is selling for about $35 or so. I figure they are pre-orders and your $35 basically covers the issues that must be ordered to earn each copy of LotG, which is as we know 25 issues of Book of Death #1.

I bought 4 copies of LotG from Midtown, so basically I paid them to order 100 copies of Book of Death #1 + whatever they charged me over that for 4 copies of LotG. They can now sell that 100 copies of Book of Death for whatever they want, as they have already made their money on the deal.

Things from another world (http://www.tfaw.com/) offers the books for $3-$4 each via pre-order (I also pre-ordered several copies); HOWEVER, I would be shocked (

) if this is a legit deal and it is more likely that TFAW will send an email at some point either stating that the price was wrong and then offering me another price closer to what Midtown is offering; or they will simply not charge me and then say your order has been cancelled. I've seen this *SQUEE* before...

erwinrafael · Post by **erwinrafael** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:54 am

$35 for a 22-page comic book?

Then it really is a book marketed for collectors, not readers. And they are hoping that the collectors would be the ones who would help market VEI, not the reader.

I mean, is there a reader, who does not look at this book as an investment, who would willingly spend $1.60 per page of story? That has to be one hell of a read for your reading enjoyment to be worth $1.60 per page.

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:12 am

Paul Nolan wrote:
Tim wrote:
paradise wrote:
hunter_peterson wrote: He's saying it was a drastic change in tactics that put the needs of the publisher over the desires of the fanbase. It's not about pleasing the fans, it's about getting product into new hands and on new shelves. Within the US it essentially means that they'll be giving retailers a risk-free way to see how much Valiant they can sell. That, and the loyal fans will likely find a way to access this series anyway, and more retailers being involved will facilitate that.

It's not the business of it that is controversial but the way that it clearly isn't about the fanbase that many find irksome.
MHM, yes. Sometimes a publisher has to make a long term game changer move, despite the fanbase. Fanbase can really slow the publisher down if they try to appease them in every way. Stuns growth.
Think DC Comics' New 52. Long time DC nuts like myself and Ian House completely alienated and dropping all or almost all DC titles. Readers who were intimidated by DC's long history came on board in numbers (perhaps) high enough to justify losing folks like me.

It works. Not sure how well or how sustainable, but "sustainable" and "modern comics industry" don't really get used too much in conjunction with each other much.
DCs market share against Marvel drastically lowered.

Yep! Guess we do know how sustainable it is after all.

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:16 am

http://io9.com/valiant-wants-as-few-peo ... 1698968339" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ouch.

kjjohanson · Post by **kjjohanson** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:17 am

Tim wrote:http://io9.com/valiant-wants-as-few-peo ... 1698968339

Ouch.

I love the comment:

(Not that I condone such a practice, but I'm sure that this is how the vast majority of people that actually read the books will access it.)

kjjohanson · Post by **kjjohanson** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:24 am

Paul Nolan wrote:Personally, I still think its ludicrously stupid that a company is limiting the readership of a tie in to potentially 4% of the main series.

you'll miss out on buyers who are completionists and don't think they'll get the whole Book of Death story.
you'll lose loyal readers, because they're annoyed they're being excluded hold of the book
You'll create friction in comic shops if some normal Valiant readers see someone else get the book over them.

yay, comic shops can make some extra cents per issue, but is the cost to good will really worth it....?

Valiant really need to rethink this dis-incentive.

I checked on the order-all variants, and there are actually 4 different covers with art and a blank, which means, for people buying all covers, the Legends book is more like a 1:5 (and the 1:10 variant is a 1:2). With that in mind, with the heavy discount, $20–$25 for a set of the first issue and the Legends book seems like a ceiling that one should look to pay for this book, especially when you consider you're only getting two stories out of it.

lorddunlow · Post by **lorddunlow** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:16 am

Ilzuccone, we're going to need that Twitter link now...

agent_graves · Post by **agent_graves** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:03 am

Tim wrote:http://io9.com/valiant-wants-as-few-peo ... 1698968339

Ouch.

This is a little known story, the history of which is only known to a select few of the most important players in the Valiant Universe, and it’s telling will mirror its method of distribution. This will be a rare series that we hope fans will seek, much as they did decades ago for tales like the original ‘Harbinger’ #0.

I can dig it...

Paul Nolan · Post by **Paul Nolan** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:14 am

agent_graves wrote:
Tim wrote:http://io9.com/valiant-wants-as-few-peo ... 1698968339

Ouch.
This is a little known story, the history of which is only known to a select few of the most important players in the Valiant Universe, and it’s telling will mirror its method of distribution. This will be a rare series that we hope fans will seek, much as they did decades ago for tales like the original ‘Harbinger’ #0.

I can dig it...

This is not 1993.

A lot of us do not 'dig it...'

agent_graves · Post by **agent_graves** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:23 am

Paul Nolan wrote:
agent_graves wrote:
Tim wrote:http://io9.com/valiant-wants-as-few-peo ... 1698968339

Ouch.
This is a little known story, the history of which is only known to a select few of the most important players in the Valiant Universe, and it’s telling will mirror its method of distribution. This will be a rare series that we hope fans will seek, much as they did decades ago for tales like the original ‘Harbinger’ #0.

I can dig it...
This is not 1993.

A lot of us do not 'dig it...'

Believe me, I know. I've been a part of the conversation, but what others feel, doesn't sway my opinion.

iggy101us · Post by **iggy101us** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:25 am

So . . . . will there be any variant covers for Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer #1?

agent_graves · Post by **agent_graves** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:37 am

iggy101us wrote:So . . . . will there be any variant covers for Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer #1?

Ha! Now that would be cray...

tiredofmyself · Post by **tiredofmyself** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:13 pm

paradise wrote:
tchalla8 wrote:
Ricomortis wrote: Ed is adamant that this is a brilliant idea and that there's no downside for anyone.
Not exactly true. I only said there is no downside to retailers. For one thing, digital readers are screwed on this. I can't deny this. But i also say this, digital is not supposed to be a 100% replacement for paper, it's an additional way to get content, not a replacement way. I know a few of you see it as replacement due to desire not to have paper copies, or limited availability. but it's not meant to be. Marvel and DC do not publish 100% of their products online, nor do 100% of the only products they publish get printed on paper. You just assume that it would be, but it does not HAVE to be. it's another example of not understanding how things work and assuming that it would be tailored to your individual desire.

Look at GNs. whenever people say that they are switching to trades, I always warn them that they can NOT indefinitely expect every issue to be put out in trade. It's not possible and does not make sense. Any publisher doing that will eventually start losing a ton of money on trying to sustain that library. That's why titles are restarted, to produce new #1 Gn volumes, so that they don't have to print Daredevil vol 11 GN.

This market is not really built on the model of everything being able to be available to everyone in every possible way. some of the fans just expect it that way and get disappointed.

Wait, there are new comics from Marvel that do not have digital version?
And there are digital comics that are not collected in TPB later? (Less sure of this because of the general quality of those random digital comics they may not collect some because it won't sell anyway).

To stay on topic, the main problem I have is not that they are trying to coerce customers to help them get more penetration. The main problem is they are effectively blocking TPB and digital readers. Why is that necessary for the main scheme to work?

kjjohanson · Post by **kjjohanson** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:16 pm

Is there really one main problem here?

jeremycoe · Post by **jeremycoe** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:33 pm

tiredofmyself wrote: Wait, there are new comics from Marvel that do not have digital version?
And there are digital comics that are not collected in TPB later? (Less sure of this because of the general quality of those random digital comics they may not collect some because it won't sell anyway).

Yes.
http://marvel.com/comics/issue/52174/ma ... axy_2015_3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://marvel.com/comics/issue/51456/av ... dra_2015_1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tiredofmyself wrote: To stay on topic, the main problem I have is not that they are trying to coerce customers to help them get more penetration. The main problem is they are effectively blocking TPB and digital readers. Why is that necessary for the main scheme to work?

No one is being "blocked". Anyone can buy this. Just because it's not catered specifically to you doesn't mean you can't buy it.

I know there are many who don't care for this decision VEI has made, and that's fine, but I don't think whining about it is going to change things at this point. If you don't like it don't buy the issue. Vote with your wallet.

kjjohanson · Post by **kjjohanson** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:44 pm

jeremycoe wrote:
tiredofmyself wrote: Wait, there are new comics from Marvel that do not have digital version?
And there are digital comics that are not collected in TPB later? (Less sure of this because of the general quality of those random digital comics they may not collect some because it won't sell anyway).
Yes.
http://marvel.com/comics/issue/52174/ma ... axy_2015_3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://marvel.com/comics/issue/51456/av ... dra_2015_1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tiredofmyself wrote: To stay on topic, the main problem I have is not that they are trying to coerce customers to help them get more penetration. The main problem is they are effectively blocking TPB and digital readers. Why is that necessary for the main scheme to work?
No one is being "blocked". Anyone can buy this. Just because it's not catered specifically to you doesn't mean you can't buy it.

I know there are many who don't care for this decision VEI has made, and that's fine, but I don't think whining about it is going to change things at this point. If you don't like it don't buy the issue. Vote with your wallet.

Voicing one's opinion may affect decisions as to whether try a similar promotion in the future.

ValiantFans.com Board - Since 2004

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