Captain America *Spoiler*

dellamorte · Post by **dellamorte** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:23 pm

Well since the cat's out I read this thread.

Lots of good points, it is scary how the bad trends from the 90's are coming back. The variants are just silly. Every damn book has a sketch and a variant.

Good point by Zeph, if Joe Q had a brain he would have hyped the *SQUEE* out of this and sales would have doubled at least. Marvel would have gotten the same amount of news stories with more money.

The only good thing about all this is that Cap is a book I buy so I have a copy waiting for me at the store. And it is a good book for those of you who don't read new comics. This is a creative team I would love to see on a new Eternal Warrior book.

ibreakhorses · Post by **ibreakhorses** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:24 pm

Knightt wrote:It's a bird... it's a plane... it's the early to mid 90s all over again !!!!

Knightt · Post by **Knightt** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:44 pm

dellamorte wrote:Well since the cat's out I read this thread.

Lots of good points, it is scary how the bad trends from the 90's are coming back. The variants are just silly. Every damn book has a sketch and a variant.

Good point by Zeph, if Joe Q had a brain he would have hyped the *SQUEE* out of this and sales would have doubled at least. Marvel would have gotten the same amount of news stories with more money.

The only good thing about all this is that Cap is a book I buy so I have a copy waiting for me at the store. And it is a good book for those of you who don't read new comics. This is a creative team I would love to see on a new Eternal Warrior book.

Man, you are speaking the truth on all accounts. I saw the 'variants' as a VERY bad sign months ago. I even got into it for The Phoenix Endsong variants and The Green Lantern Rebirth variants because I thought they were all just WAY cool but I had that aching feeling, you know like when you get a tooth ache ? And here we are today, variants going like CRAZY (I did not buy any of the variants since Phoenix and GL until today and had a Captain America book saved for me and it ended up being the 'variant) and the death of a major superhero (the only thing missing is Valiant Comics

). Speculation will now get crazy. Face it... we already have a copy of the Cap issue at $41 on a one day auction and it has 17 hours 20 minutes left on it. If this singular issue goes sky high, it will fuel a speculator market. The Top Two will kill off a few more characters and we will run into HUGE orders with nothing to show for it in ten years.

I could speculate that at this point in the game that if we see what happened back in the early to mid 90s... it could kill comics. Probably not, but it is a possibility.

I just thought that we would NEVER see something like what we had back then (now we havent really because there are no orders of a million copies of any one title) but we ARE seeing the same trend... variants, Caps death. Damn spooky... damn shame.

IMO

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:53 pm

depluto wrote:I just picked up a copy, and got an extra one for the office. It's well written like all the recent Cap stuff. Hard to tell where they are going, but Brubaker and Epting are a fantastic team.

Yeah. It sucks that this Civil War thing is screwing up Brubaker's run on Cap. Cap has been excellent and has never been written better than by Brubaker. I'm sure the series will continue to be good, but I wish it was uninterrupted Cap stories, not some crap brought on by a Publisher-wide event.

Anyone know what they are doing with the series now? Is Bucky taking over? That would be lame and a disservice to Brubaker's run (not that Bucky is bad. His character is excellent as well). I guess Cap will be Ronin or Echo or whatever in Avengers shortly. It's *SQUEE* to screw up Brubaker's run like this.

stone384 · Post by **stone384** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:12 pm

Yeah. It sucks that this Civil War thing is screwing up Brubaker's run on Cap. Cap has been excellent and has never been written better than by Brubaker. I'm sure the series will continue to be good, but I wish it was uninterrupted Cap stories, not some crap brought on by a Publisher-wide event.

Could be worse. You could be a Spider-Man fan. Spidey has been jumping from event to event for years. I think CW is the 3rd or fouth in a row!

m

steverino · Post by **steverino** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:43 am

greg wrote:Best Auction Description Ever

"IN STOCK NOW! Look, we all know what this is...is he dead? Well, his comic isn't cancelled, his image is still on the Marvel website, and c'mon...isnt there a movie coming out with him? But if all you guys are paying stupid $$$, then why try to stop you...i will be HAPPY to take your hard earned $$$."

Up to $30 already!

Unfrickingbelievable!

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:40 am

stone384 wrote:
Yeah. It sucks that this Civil War thing is screwing up Brubaker's run on Cap. Cap has been excellent and has never been written better than by Brubaker. I'm sure the series will continue to be good, but I wish it was uninterrupted Cap stories, not some crap brought on by a Publisher-wide event.

Could be worse. You could be a Spider-Man fan. Spidey has been jumping from event to event for years. I think CW is the 3rd or fouth in a row!
m

Yeah, I am a Spider-man fan, too. Since the writing on the books suck (except Ultimate), the only non-Ultimate Spidey book I buy anymore is Amazing just to keep my run going. Don't know why they keep Strazynski on that book. It lacks entertainment nearly being to the point of being unreadable. "The Other" storyline was the story that made my decision to only buy ASM an easy one. Man that was *SQUEE*.

mavros · Post by **mavros** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:19 am

Just thought of this

Does anyone know how this is going to impact the Captain America in the Ultimates title?

Anyone think that they will keep Earth 616 Steve Rogers dead because they have him running around in the Ultimate Universe?

Could this be the beginning of the merging of the two universes? (Bringing over the Steve Rogers from Ultimate Universe and Spider-man--to resolve his identity being known--as well would re-establish the status quo).

Just some ideas of where they could be going.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:23 am

mavros wrote:Just thought of this

Does anyone know how this is going to impact the Captain America in the Ultimates title?

Anyone think that they will keep Earth 616 Steve Rogers dead because they have him running around in the Ultimate Universe?

Could this be the beginning of the merging of the two universes? (Bringing over the Steve Rogers from Ultimate Universe and Spider-man--to resolve his identity being known--as well would re-establish the status quo).

Just some ideas of where they could be going.

I hope no mixing, and that if a crossover does occur it won't be permanent. hopefully marvel wouldn't be that stupid to compromise two strong brands (MU and Ultimate universe).

I think the death will be a fake or temporary. Steve Rogers of Marvel Earth is Captain America. And he will be again.

cobra_commander · Post by **cobra_commander** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:37 am

Mmmm...Captain America is gonna die? I'm over it

gavster · Post by **gavster** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:44 am

I don't mind paying out big buck's for a high grade book which is CGC'd and worthy of the price given the rarity and significance of the book, but this title has got me priced out of the market in just one day of its release, and that is just for standard raw book. It can't be sustained can it? I'm seeing prices up to $100 for the pair. The market has stunned me but not the story as I know he will be back.

The Spider · Post by **The Spider** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:50 am

$107 for both?! (as I'm writing this there's only 3 hours left so it might've changed)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0097193003

And yeah, the method in which they hyped this is really frustrating--they don't tell retailers about it (other than something around the lines of, "YOU HAVE TO BUY CAPTAIN AMERICA #25!"), and then decide to let the media report the day the comic is out.

myron · Post by **myron** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:13 am

Both ZWH and Spider have said..."they didn't let retailers know". If the speculators et al knew...isn't it the retailers JOB to know what is going on and driving the market? Shouldn't they have had an inkling? Do you guys really think Marvel should have stepped out to all it's retailers and said --"hey guys, btw we're insert special event next issue, so stock up"...that most likely would have diminished the effect.

just my opinion

siren3-4 · Post by **siren3-4** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:21 am

If comic shops were told about the end of Cap 25 would it be better or worse ?

There would be a lot more copies out there but how is that better? Spidey's outing caused a small rush to comic shops to get the issue and had some buying all the civil war books (I actually witnessed this happening at my LCS) by people that had been out of comics for years. Not just the issue but the whole storyline.

The print runs are a lot lower now than in the 80’s and early 90’s. The book wasn't hyped as "the death of" so there are not 1,000,000 copies out there, which everyone believes would be a bad thing. So what’s the real complaint ?

Is it a gimmick . . . yes, but so what. They didn’t use it to sell more copies, just to generate interest in comic books. You can still get $5 - $20 for a Death of Superman book. Not bad for having 800 million copies out there. The story will be reprinted for those that want to read it, so what’s the problem ?

Someone getting into the “hobby” just to buy this book and become a millionaire is not going to stay anyway. If the book is well written and causes someone to start reading or get back into reading comics then it was a positive thing.

If they could have kept it on time, they actually could have made Civil War a 12 issue mini and took the time to explain both sides better in the actual book instead of in peripheral books. That’s a whole different argument though . . .

IMJ · Post by **IMJ** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:47 am

There's about fifty copies of this thing sitting @ Graham Crackers comics in Naperville, IL.

The Spider · Post by **The Spider** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:04 am

myron wrote:Both ZWH and Spider have said..."they didn't let retailers know". If the speculators et al knew...isn't it the retailers JOB to know what is going on and driving the market? Shouldn't they have had an inkling? Do you guys really think Marvel should have stepped out to all it's retailers and said --"hey guys, btw we're insert special event next issue, so stock up"...that most likely would have diminished the effect.

just my opinion

It's probable, but IIRC there was a cut-off date for ordering the comic, wasn't there? Also, there were rumors that someone would die in Civil War #7, and look how that turned out.

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:13 am

I never sell any of my stuff on ebay, but I would feel pretty guilty selling my set of this for $50 or $100, even knowing that the person buying them is a *SQUEE* idiot. I would feel like I was ripping someone off.

Besides, there's no way that dude is completely dead. He's only mostly dead.

Escaflown4 · Post by **Escaflown4** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:19 am

siren3-4 wrote:If comic shops were told about the end of Cap 25 would it be better or worse ?

There would be a lot more copies out there but how is that better? Spidey's outing caused a small rush to comic shops to get the issue and had some buying all the civil war books (I actually witnessed this happening at my LCS) by people that had been out of comics for years. Not just the issue but the whole storyline.

The print runs are a lot lower now than in the 80’s and early 90’s. The book wasn't hyped as "the death of" so there are not 1,000,000 copies out there, which everyone believes would be a bad thing. So what’s the real complaint ?

Is it a gimmick . . . yes, but so what. They didn’t use it to sell more copies, just to generate interest in comic books. You can still get $5 - $20 for a Death of Superman book. Not bad for having 800 million copies out there. The story will be reprinted for those that want to read it, so what’s the problem ?

Someone getting into the “hobby” just to buy this book and become a millionaire is not going to stay anyway. If the book is well written and causes someone to start reading or get back into reading comics then it was a positive thing.

If they could have kept it on time, they actually could have made Civil War a 12 issue mini and took the time to explain both sides better in the actual book instead of in peripheral books. That’s a whole different argument though . . .

This whole gimmick stinks from the beginning. First of all, by announcing it through all the different medias we have today, Marvel is attracting the wrong crowd. Speculators are the ones you DO NOT want to hop on this bandwagon. From past history, they have been known to bring the industry to a complete downfall.

I have yet read any new issues of Captain America with the new creative team, but I don't know how it could be called good writing when he gets offed by a sniper after surviving years battling Nazis and surviving impossible odds.

Even though the book is not mass-produced, we all know the book will hold no value on the long run. It's obvious Captain America will be back since Marvel's rule is no one remains dead.

SnotDrip · Post by **SnotDrip** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:33 am

Went to my LCS today just after it opened... SOLD out

So I talked to the owner whom I have know for over 20 yrs and asked for a copy from the "hidden" store stock... He said "uh NO"...

See, he didn't have any put aside because he did know either and people were lining up as he was opening the boxes the other day (store only ordered 70 - 35 of each cover). So he gave me his copy from his pull/sub and it was the the hand-cuff cover... and if the re-order comes in a couple of each cover.

Knightt · Post by **Knightt** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:52 am

This issue is not all that great and I really think that I see a lot of foreshadowing, of course trying to figure out just how they are going to bring Cap back OR if he is even dead. If you read carefully (IMO) they are leaving 'lead ins' to bringing him back.

We are talking Marvel... it is just a matter of time before the dead come back. I am surprised that (Black) Goliath has not risen from the dead yet.

But on the emotional side... I can't believe that they did this to an icon like Captain America. Shocked and even saddened. Now can you just imagine that IF Captain America were to really be dead and Marvel kept him like that ? Would you care, would your mourn, would you say 'bout time', what would your honest to God reaction be if we knew that Cap was really dead and going to stay dead ? What if Marvel WERE a company that when someone died they stayed dead ? How would you feel ?

siren3-4 · Post by **siren3-4** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:59 am

*************possible Spoiler***************

should I even bother writing that in this thread

Did anyone read the Initiative?

I am being told that it lets the cat out of the bag that Cap faked his death to go underground. I am at work and can't check.

End spoiler*******************

Elveen · Post by **Elveen** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:08 am

SPOILERS*********************

SERIOUS......... SPOILERS BELOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I read Cap #25 (the first new issue I have boughten off the shelf since Secret Weapons #2, I think)

It was actually good for me, there was a short re-telling of his orgin, and while the sniper got him, a few things:

he saw the sniper, he actually placed himself in line of fire on purpose, to protect the police officer (I guess), so that is kinda honorable.....

and most of the damage was done not by the sniper, but by the blonde chick that shot him like 3 times at point blank in the belly. (she is suppost to be his lover or something, right?)

So it is not quite accurate to say that Cap. was killed by a sniper, he was shot by a sniper, then blasted point blank by a "Friend".

SnotDrip · Post by **SnotDrip** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:12 am

Knightt wrote:This issue is not all that great and I really think that I see a lot of foreshadowing, of course trying to figure out just how they are going to bring Cap back OR if he is even dead. If you read carefully (IMO) they are leaving 'lead ins' to bringing him back.

We are talking Marvel... it is just a matter of time before the dead come back. I am surprised that (Black) Goliath has not risen from the dead yet.

But on the emotional side... I can't believe that they did this to an icon like Captain America. Shocked and even saddened. Now can you just imagine that IF Captain America were to really be dead and Marvel kept him like that ? Would you care, would your mourn, would you say 'bout time', what would your honest to God reaction be if we knew that Cap was really dead and going to stay dead ? What if Marvel WERE a company that when someone died they stayed dead ? How would you feel ?

Call me sappy but some of the most inspired writing (I’m sure I'll take a hit for this!) of CW occurred when Spidey changed sides and met up with Cap - just the 2 of them. PP asked a simple question. Cap took 3 pages I think to articulate the What and Why.. beautiful stuff IMO as cap summed up his beliefs and values and why he is fighting Registration even if he is the only one standing against it.

To have written that and simply "kill him off" without a purpose is counter productive to business (IMHO). Cap THE icon that can be counted upon. He is Marvel's moral Deus ex machina.

CW has to end with HIM gone in order for all to realize how wrong Registration is ... If Cap is right about Registration he will return when needed the most ala GL REBIRTH.

end of

Knightt · Post by **Knightt** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:19 am

siren3-4 wrote:*************possible Spoiler***************

should I even bother writing that in this thread

Did anyone read the Initiative?

Not really one to point out stuff about me but if you check out my auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... &rd=1&rd=1

There was a reason behind it and I hope that you and I are right.

siren3-4 · Post by **siren3-4** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:27 am

Knightt wrote:
siren3-4 wrote:*************possible Spoiler***************

should I even bother writing that in this thread

Did anyone read the Initiative?
Not really one to point out stuff about me but if you check out my auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... &rd=1&rd=1

There was a reason behind it and I hope that you and I are right.

I found this trying to search for the answer:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/ ... gi?id=9914

Interesting reading . . . .

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