Archer & Armstrong #0 Discussion

[jmatt]

"We keepers of the timeless word, nor any of the lost creatures who have been found here, require food or drink."

I think that there's an editorial mistake in that line. I believe it was intended to read "timeless world" not "timeless word".

They are in a conversation about how time doesn't pass in the Faraway. "Timeless word" doesn't make much sense.

[Baramos]

It's gramatically incorrect I guess, but seeing as how other Valiant books have had blatant spelling errors I'll give it a pass (I got the Shadowman TPB this week, noticed at least one reading through the four issues).

The lead guy on the dino was definitely not fused with a spider, instead he looked very alien, and had like, squid tentacles for a beard. He still had his legs and body, but had the machine-gun arm.

I wonder if these guys are created by the sages to defend the Faraway or if they were converted cyborgs by say...Mothergod? Of course, they've said they don't want the new Unity to be "totally new or totally old" so maybe not. But if they don't want it to be totally new it will probably involve the Faraway in some shape or form, maybe with Mary Maria leading the One Percent there to find another Boon. The fact that Eternal Warrior and X-O Manowar are going to come into conflict is going to help tie it into the Archer & Armstrong universe, as well. So...I think we are slowly seeing some things converging here.

[jmatt]

Okay, some thoughts about this issue and so forth. These are not necessarily complaints, I really did love the issue.

First, I was a little disappointed it was told as a flashback. I would have preferred that the events just unfolded in first person (or should I say 'real-time'). It would have left three full pages more for action and dialogue in the Faraway; the intro was 1.5 pages and the denouement was 1.5 pages.

Okay, that would have taken some of the charm away of Aram revealing to us that he authored Gilgamesh, but does that really add a lot to the story? I would have preferred three more pages of battle and wonder as they explored the land and spoke with the Sages. It seemed like they were there and gone so quickly.

Second, I guess we are to assume that the Genesis verses in the a&A teaser in Harbinger #2 are not to be taken literally. Everything did not die on Earth that day. Fair enough, but I recall so much endless speculation about what it all meant when it came out.

Third, okay help me out here since I cannot remember. Where and what is Ivar? We know immortality was conferred to Aram and Gilad that day... but have we been told about Ivar? I have this nagging recollection there's been something said about it but I can't remember what it is. I know we saw him appear to Archer as some kind of godly vision but that's all I can recall.

Fourth, I was a little disappointed that the best pages of the book were revealed in the promos. And if you checked out the VEI site, you saw nearly everything that preceded those pages. It's like we saw half the book before it was even released.

And lastly: Can something be called a preview if it never actually appears as canon in a title? If not, that would make the teaser that appeared in Harby#2 not just a sneak peek, but the only peek.

[erwinrafael]

My one major gripe is that the death of Gilad is this huge deal but we don't see how exactly it happens. A page of battle where he meets his end ..would have been nice to see and made more of an impact I think.

BUt that is in Eternal Warrior #0.

[BugsySig]

Third, okay help me out here since I cannot remember. Where and what is Ivar? We know immortality was conferred to Aram and Gilad that day... but have we been told about Ivar? I have this nagging recollection there's been something said about it but I can't remember what it is. I know we saw him appear to Archer as some kind of godly vision but that's all I can recall.

In A&A #4 Ivar tells Archer he says, "I am Ivar. I was the last fool to activate the Boon. I have walked through time seeking redemption ever since."

So either the Boon pushed him through time, activated his Psiot power to create time portals, or he invented a time machine in order to go back and stop himself from activating the Boon.

But is he actually immortal? By moving through time he may have the appearance of immortality, but does he age?

[Baramos]

Well I kind of think of Psiots as short-hand for "mutants", I kind of thought of the Anni-Padda powers as some kind of mystical thing. But I guess it's all interconnected to some extents.

Eternal Warrior #0 I think would probably focus on him becoming the Fist and Steel of the Geomancers, not on the trip to the Faraway again. We know how he got killed (the shards of crystal from the trees tore through him as well as all the enemies), I don't care that it happened off page.

[BugsySig]

So I will pose the question: Are the Anni-Padda Bros. Psiots?

We know Aram is/was incredibly strong before ever being imbued with all those souls.

Ivar had vastly superior intelligence or understanding of machines (a technopath, maybe, just with limited technology of his time) and in VH1 was a Harbinger who could sense those time portals.

That leaves Gilad, who seemed to have an uncanny knack for fighting/tactics/war and would run with the wild animals to better learn how to hunt them...OK, so he's the one who doesn't quite jump out, but still...

Thoughts

[nscc]

So I will pose the question: Are the Anni-Padda Bros. Psiots?

We know Aram is/was incredibly strong before ever being imbued with all those souls.

Ivar had vastly superior intelligence or understanding of machines (a technopath, maybe, just with limited technology of his time) and in VH1 was a Harbinger who could sense those time portals.

That leaves Gilad, who seemed to have an uncanny knack for fighting/tactics/war and would run with the wild animals to better learn how to hunt them...OK, so he's the one who doesn't quite jump out, but still...

Thoughts

Psiots remind me a lot of Psionics from D&D. It is basically an alternative magic system themed as powers from within the individual rather than casting spells. There were 2 main classes, one called a Psion, which had different disciplines of powers such as

Telepathy
A psion who chooses the discipline of telepathy is known as a telepath. He is the master of powers that allow mental contact and control of other sentient creatures. A telepath can deceive or destroy the minds of his enemies with ease.

There are other disciplines at that site, and many of the Psiots we know but fit into those.

There was a second Class called Psychic Warrior which had similar powers as the Psion but who gained not as flashy abilities. Different ones that augmented their strength, senses, even fighting styles based off animals.

Maybe Gilad is just a different type of Psiot with a similar power base but a different set of abilities like that.

I tend to read all stories from that perspective, how good of a D&D campaign would it make and then look for similarities to characters and a d&d class.

Since I started reading VEI that's how I've been thinking of it all. Not that I think that Dysart based it off Psionics or anything, but I enjoy the similarities and comparing the two.

[Savant]

Amazing issue, and in this guy's humble opinion, the best of the Zero's so far. Good luck, Bloodshot #0... the bar has been officially set.

So many mysteries introduced with the Faraway! I can't wait for the next arc to begin, and hopefully we get to explore this simulcrum world further!

Did anyone get the joke in the beginning where Archer asked if Armstrong needed to get back to his 44? Went over my head, that one.

Three 8's and two 10's

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh... duh.

Math is hard.

And, of course, the humor in "44" was Obie not being used to the concept of ranking women's looks via a number system, so he assumed you're supposed to add all the numbers up in your head.

So I will pose the question: Are the Anni-Padda Bros. Psiots?

We know Aram is/was incredibly strong before ever being imbued with all those souls.

I'm under the assumption that Aram was incredibly strong for a human being, but his strength increased after the boon incident.

[BugsySig]

I'm under the assumption that Aram was incredibly strong for a human being, but his strength increased after the boon incident.

He punched and chocked out a dinosaur...seems pretty inhumanly strong to me, but I suppose that's possible.

[Baramos]

I think the only way that he was stronger afterwards is when you can regenerate so quickly, you can go beyond your normal human limits--he's supposed to be almost superhumanly strong in Ur, but then after the Boon happens he actually is superhumanly strong because he never has to worry about a torn muscle or a shattered bone.

It seems clear when he's lifting a gigantic stone block like the Boon that he's already in possession of super strength.

I like the theory that they were all psiots or superhumans before the Boon happened, but maybe the Boon enhances them to a certain extent. Armstrong is even stronger, Gilad is an even more off-the-charts warrior, and Ivar's perceptions of science and the natural world increase so much he can see time streams.

Probably what we have to look at is what is the definition of psiot, and what causes the ability to manifest. In something like X-Men it's clearly caused by an actual physical mutation, but in Harbinger it's supposedly some kind of underlying physical mutation of the brain in conjunction with some kind of physical and mental trauma that allows people to tap into these mental structures (which don't exist in everyone). So maybe we can see the Anni-Padda brothers as unactivated psiots activated by the Boon? Or something like that.

[BugsySig]

I think the only way that he was stronger afterwards is when you can regenerate so quickly, you can go beyond your normal human limits--he's supposed to be almost superhumanly strong in Ur, but then after the Boon happens he actually is superhumanly strong because he never has to worry about a torn muscle or a shattered bone.

It seems clear when he's lifting a gigantic stone block like the Boon that he's already in possession of super strength.

I like the theory that they were all psiots or superhumans before the Boon happened, but maybe the Boon enhances them to a certain extent. Armstrong is even stronger, Gilad is an even more off-the-charts warrior, and Ivar's perceptions of science and the natural world increase so much he can see time streams.

Probably what we have to look at is what is the definition of psiot, and what causes the ability to manifest. In something like X-Men it's clearly caused by an actual physical mutation, but in Harbinger it's supposedly some kind of underlying physical mutation of the brain in conjunction with some kind of physical and mental trauma that allows people to tap into these mental structures (which don't exist in everyone). So maybe we can see the Anni-Padda brothers as unactivated psiots activated by the Boon? Or something like that.

Yes, I was thinking they were latent psiots who were activated by the Boon...Though it seems like latent Psiots don't demonstrate any abilities in this version. In VH1, some showed abilities before being "popped" but they were limited. Here the latents seem to know they are different or missing something, but don't manifest without being activated. So that leaves the possibility that they (at least Aram and Ivar) were born activated, like Pete.

Maybe it's just been so long that Aram thinks he was always super strong? Or he could have been exaggerating for the sake of the story

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

Maybe they were psiots, it would explain why the three of them survived from the boon igniting, and no one else did, right? If you think about it, why the three of them? Well, maybe they were the only psiots of their time.
The only problem with that, is Harada's "math", or history of psiots. However, that seemed already debunked with the discovery of the bleeding monks monestary of psiots.

[Elveen]

I just read this book.

I think I have to re-read it for a clear though on it.

GREAT art. No doubt.

[MiamiLoco]

Maybe I missed something but how did Gilad come back to life after issue 0??

[lorddunlow]

Maybe I missed something but how did Gilad come back to life after issue 0??

The Boon

[Baramos]

Yeah, that was why Ivar activated it in the first place, was to bring Gilad back to life.

[BugsySig]

Maybe I missed something but how did Gilad come back to life after issue 0??

The Boon

I would disagree. The Boon imbued Armstrong with the souls of the living, granting him immortality, but Gilad was brought back to life by the Earth to be its champion.

Now there may have been some relationship there to the Boon, but I'm thinking the massive loss of life prompted the Earth to take notice and awaken Gilad as her Fist and Steel. Perhaps the Earth thought the Boon was an attempt by the Null to wipe out existence

[jmatt]

Maybe I missed something but how did Gilad come back to life after issue 0??

This is a good time to ask this question again:

Can something be called a preview if it never actually appears as canon in a title? If not, that would make the teaser that appeared in Harby#2 not just a sneak peek, but the only peek.

Do you guys see what I'm getting at? In all the other previews we've seen, the pages were subsequently printed in a regular issue. I wonder if at some point this preview content will appear in one of the titles.

Perhaps in EW #0? (should it ever come to pass) We might see what transpired immediately following the activation of the Boon and learn of Gilad's resurrection and newfound connection to the Earth as her Fist and Steel.

MiamiLoco, you'll find this preview in Harby #2.

[400yrs]

First, I was a little disappointed it was told as a flashback. I would have preferred that the events just unfolded in first person (or should I say 'real-time'). It would have left three full pages more for action and dialogue in the Faraway; the intro was 1.5 pages and the denouement was 1.5 pages.

Okay, that would have taken some of the charm away of Aram revealing to us that he authored Gilgamesh, but does that really add a lot to the story? I would have preferred three more pages of battle and wonder as they explored the land and spoke with the Sages. It seemed like they were there and gone so quickly.

I liked the way it was done. It provided more depth to Aram as a character. Yeah, the action was fast, but it left me wanting more (which I feel like will be coming eventually).

Fourth, I was a little disappointed that the best pages of the book were revealed in the promos. And if you checked out the VEI site, you saw nearly everything that preceded those pages. It's like we saw half the book before it was even released.quote]

Stop reading them. They are meant to bring in people who are on the fence, not people who are buying the book already. I don't bother reading them (although I did read the Q&W one).

[jmatt]

I liked the way it was done. It provided more depth to Aram as a character. Yeah, the action was fast, but it left me wanting more (which I feel like will be coming eventually).

I agree completely that helped flesh out Aram's character. I just want to see so much more of the Faraway.

This shoulda been a King Size 48-page Giant! Nobody makes these anymore...

[jakgrimm]

I doubt the brothers are psiots because their eyes don't light up. Thats been a constant throughout this new Valiant universe (one of the few constants). Every psiot has his eyes light up as opposed to in VH1 only Harada and Pete had that little spark when they used their powers.
Also in VH1 it was never said that the brothers were Harbingers. As far as I know they never ever said that. Ivar had an ear piece that could detect time arcs.
Also do we know for sure that the Earth chose Gilly right after the boon incident? Maybe he lives for thousands of years after that before the earff chooses him..

[erwinrafael]

Maybe I missed something but how did Gilad come back to life after issue 0??

This is a good time to ask this question again:

Can something be called a preview if it never actually appears as canon in a title? If not, that would make the teaser that appeared in Harby#2 not just a sneak peek, but the only peek.

Do you guys see what I'm getting at? In all the other previews we've seen, the pages were subsequently printed in a regular issue. I wonder if at some point this preview content will appear in one of the titles.

Perhaps in EW #0? (should it ever come to pass) We might see what transpired immediately following the activation of the Boon and learn of Gilad's resurrection and newfound connection to the Earth as her Fist and Steel.

MiamiLoco, you'll find this preview in Harby #2.

I have re-read Harbinger #2 because of your comment and I have not seen a preview that was not printed in the A&A title. Are you sure about the issue you are referring to?

[lorddunlow]

I don't see it anywhere in Harbinger, either. Are you referencing the first few pages of Archer and Armstrong #1? If so, then it's not a preview, but canon in the actual book - just a look at their origin without any context. I do remember this being a preview in X-O or Harbinger, I think, but it is in Archer and Armstrong #1.

[jmatt]

I don't see it anywhere in Harbinger, either. Are you referencing the first few pages of Archer and Armstrong #1? If so, then it's not a preview, but canon in the actual book - just a look at their origin without any context. I do remember this being a preview in X-O or Harbinger, I think, but it is in Archer and Armstrong #1.

Hmm, I'll have to go back and look, perhaps it has already been printed and I forgot.