Archer & Armstrong #8 Discussion

[hawkeyeps]

If this was Logan's Run I'd already be dead

[Mandrakk]

Liked this issue be it the flashback,the moment between Archer and Armstrong in the golf cart to the eventual confrontation with the enemy.Speaking of which I love how he has been reintroduced and the way he has taken over Archer's Body,wonder what he will do with Archer's abilities,on the same note I also like how the Null's virus works and how it changes the mother's outlook on humans.Concerning Kay I hope she is alright and still able to function as the Geomancer.Also loved the Mary Maria moment and the One percent conversation,I am pretty sure Ivar is the one that informed her about faraway to make her go there for some reason,bug I do not think he is in the driver's seat,I think she is still herself anyhow can't wait to see her and Archer reunited.

[Dallow Spicer1]

'Yo' and 'Bro'!...I didn't realise those phrases had been around since the 1100's? dear oh dear oh dear? As usual lots of interesting aspects to A&A but let down by lack of attention to detail.

Has 'bad Archer' now got a black streak in his hair to signify his 'badness' or was that just shadowing?

Intrigued by the Vine reference.

One of the better A&A issues but still not fulfilling the books potential IMHO.

[Dr. Solar]

'Yo' and 'Bro'!...I didn't realise those phrases had been around since the 1100's? dear oh dear oh dear? As usual lots of interesting aspects to A&A but let down by lack of attention to detail.

I don't take this as lack of attention to detail, but instead, as creative liberties taken for teh sake of entertainment.

Which this book is full of. And I rather enjoy.

[BugsySig]

'Yo' and 'Bro'!...I didn't realise those phrases had been around since the 1100's? dear oh dear oh dear? As usual lots of interesting aspects to A&A but let down by lack of attention to detail.

I don't take this as lack of attention to detail, but instead, as creative liberties taken for teh sake of entertainment.

Which this book is full of. And I rather enjoy.

+1

[Spylocke]

I write off any anachronisms as the result of Ivar's chronal shenanigans. He's going to be my go-to excuse for anything that seems out of place until he gets his own book.

[erwinrafael]

'Yo' and 'Bro'!...I didn't realise those phrases had been around since the 1100's? dear oh dear oh dear? As usual lots of interesting aspects to A&A but let down by lack of attention to detail.

If every dialogue in a period scene in a comic book is written like how the people are supposed to be speaking back in the day, you would never understand any of these books.

[Dallow Spicer1]

'Yo' and 'Bro'!...I didn't realise those phrases had been around since the 1100's? dear oh dear oh dear? As usual lots of interesting aspects to A&A but let down by lack of attention to detail.

I don't take this as lack of attention to detail, but instead, as creative liberties taken for teh sake of entertainment.

Which this book is full of. And I rather enjoy.

Yeah, I get that FVL is taking creative liberties and if it was a stand alone book then I'd be more comfortable with it. But, it isn't and as part of the VEI universe it seems out of step with the other books. For example, VDitti spends hours trying to get accurate representation of what stirrups were like in Visigoth times, Justin Jordan spends time in New Orleans so Shadowman can get a more authentic feel, but here we have A&A in Iran (or Iraq?) using current buzz phrases like 'Bro'?

I think ultimately I don't find 'buddy books' amusing, I felt the same about Quantam and Woody so maybe I'm the wrong customer for this book? I want to support all of the VEI books so I guess I'm frustrated that I could potentially enjoy this book a lot more than I am doing. There are many aspects to the book that I DO like so I hope I don't come across like a downer!

Anyway, as Shakespeare once said 'peace out homeboys'!

[Dallow Spicer1]

'Yo' and 'Bro'!...I didn't realise those phrases had been around since the 1100's? dear oh dear oh dear? As usual lots of interesting aspects to A&A but let down by lack of attention to detail.

If every dialogue in a period scene in a comic book is written like how the people are supposed to be speaking back in the day, you would never understand any of these books.

I agree with you but surely there's a happy medium to be had? For example, you wouldn't expect to read a comic book about cavemen telling each other to 'chillax' would you?

[lorddunlow]

'Yo' and 'Bro'!...I didn't realise those phrases had been around since the 1100's? dear oh dear oh dear? As usual lots of interesting aspects to A&A but let down by lack of attention to detail.

If every dialogue in a period scene in a comic book is written like how the people are supposed to be speaking back in the day, you would never understand any of these books.

I agree with you but surely there's a happy medium to be had? For example, you wouldn't expect to read a comic book about cavemen telling each other to 'chillax' would you?

I'd give it a try!

[grendeljd]

'Yo' and 'Bro'!...I didn't realise those phrases had been around since the 1100's? dear oh dear oh dear? As usual lots of interesting aspects to A&A but let down by lack of attention to detail.

If every dialogue in a period scene in a comic book is written like how the people are supposed to be speaking back in the day, you would never understand any of these books.

I agree with you but surely there's a happy medium to be had? For example, you wouldn't expect to read a comic book about cavemen telling each other to 'chillax' would you?

+1

I really enjoyed the issue, and love the title in general so far - but that bit of seriously out of place jargon really took me out of it for a moment. I agree with Dallow, while I don't expect everything in this comedic story to be historically accurate, a certain amount of approximation would be appreciated. I think the scene could have been just as funny if he said something more in line with the time, or less specifically modern american slang.

Seriously good issue otherwise.

[greg]

The implication would be that the herb itself causes the adjustment to the local vernacular.

[Dallow Spicer1]

'Yo' and 'Bro'!...I didn't realise those phrases had been around since the 1100's? dear oh dear oh dear? As usual lots of interesting aspects to A&A but let down by lack of attention to detail.

If every dialogue in a period scene in a comic book is written like how the people are supposed to be speaking back in the day, you would never understand any of these books.

I agree with you but surely there's a happy medium to be had? For example, you wouldn't expect to read a comic book about cavemen telling each other to 'chillax' would you?

I'd give it a try!

Actually, I think I would too come to think of it!

[Zaphod]

I kind of gave up on attention to detail with X-O #2. Unfortunately I gave up on this title at #5. I'm fine with them not trying to re-create BWS' run. As far as quirky, comedy in an action book goes - I am enjoying the hell out of Aja/Fraction Hawkeye.

FVL's writing just doesn't do it for me. I'll check out the book when he leaves it.

[erwinrafael]

'Yo' and 'Bro'!...I didn't realise those phrases had been around since the 1100's? dear oh dear oh dear? As usual lots of interesting aspects to A&A but let down by lack of attention to detail.

If every dialogue in a period scene in a comic book is written like how the people are supposed to be speaking back in the day, you would never understand any of these books.

I agree with you but surely there's a happy medium to be had? For example, you wouldn't expect to read a comic book about cavemen telling each other to 'chillax' would you?

+1

I really enjoyed the issue, and love the title in general so far - but that bit of seriously out of place jargon really took me out of it for a moment. I agree with Dallow, while I don't expect everything in this comedic story to be historically accurate, a certain amount of approximation would be appreciated. I think the scene could have been just as funny if he said something more in line with the time, or less specifically modern american slang.

Seriously good issue otherwise.

What English that we would understand would approximate this?

SIÞEN þe sege and þe assaut watz sesed at Troye,
þe bor3 brittened and brent to bronde3 and askez,
þe tulk þat þe trammes of tresoun þer wro3t
Watz tried for his tricherie, þe trewest on erþe:
Hit watz Ennias þe athel, and his highe kynde,
þat siþen depreced prouinces, and patrounes bicome
Welne3e of al þe wele in þe west iles.
Fro riche Romulus to Rome ricchis hym swyþe,
With gret bobbaunce þat bur3e he biges vpon fyrst,
And neuenes hit his aune nome, as hit now hat;
Ticius to Tuskan and teldes bigynnes,
Langaberde in Lumbardie lyftes vp homes,
And fer ouer þe French flod Felix Brutus
On mony bonkkes ful brode Bretayn he settez wyth wynne,
Where werre and wrake and wonder
Bi syþez hatz wont þerinne,
And oft boþe blysse and blunder
Ful skete hatz skyfted synne.

[BugsySig]

'Yo' and 'Bro'!...I didn't realise those phrases had been around since the 1100's? dear oh dear oh dear? As usual lots of interesting aspects to A&A but let down by lack of attention to detail.

If every dialogue in a period scene in a comic book is written like how the people are supposed to be speaking back in the day, you would never understand any of these books.

I agree with you but surely there's a happy medium to be had? For example, you wouldn't expect to read a comic book about cavemen telling each other to 'chillax' would you?

+1

I really enjoyed the issue, and love the title in general so far - but that bit of seriously out of place jargon really took me out of it for a moment. I agree with Dallow, while I don't expect everything in this comedic story to be historically accurate, a certain amount of approximation would be appreciated. I think the scene could have been just as funny if he said something more in line with the time, or less specifically modern american slang.

Seriously good issue otherwise.

I think of it not so much as the actual event taking place in the past, but as Armstrong or EWs memory of the event. So it's a little twisted based on the time and influence of the modern day. When I explain the story of Thermopile or the Reformation to my students, I put it into context using modern language and anachronisms.

FVL has said the zero issue is the story of the brothers' journey to the Faraway as Armstrong tells it. I wouldn't expect a) Armstrong to tell a boring story, or b) that 10,000 years and 10,000 years worth of drinking has left Aram with a perfect recollection of events.

[greg]

'Yo' and 'Bro'!...I didn't realise those phrases had been around since the 1100's? dear oh dear oh dear? As usual lots of interesting aspects to A&A but let down by lack of attention to detail.

If every dialogue in a period scene in a comic book is written like how the people are supposed to be speaking back in the day, you would never understand any of these books.

I agree with you but surely there's a happy medium to be had? For example, you wouldn't expect to read a comic book about cavemen telling each other to 'chillax' would you?

+1

I really enjoyed the issue, and love the title in general so far - but that bit of seriously out of place jargon really took me out of it for a moment. I agree with Dallow, while I don't expect everything in this comedic story to be historically accurate, a certain amount of approximation would be appreciated. I think the scene could have been just as funny if he said something more in line with the time, or less specifically modern american slang.

Seriously good issue otherwise.

What English that we would understand would approximate this?

SIÞEN þe sege and þe assaut watz sesed at Troye,
þe bor3 brittened and brent to bronde3 and askez,
þe tulk þat þe trammes of tresoun þer wro3t
Watz tried for his tricherie, þe trewest on erþe:
Hit watz Ennias þe athel, and his highe kynde,
þat siþen depreced prouinces, and patrounes bicome
Welne3e of al þe wele in þe west iles.
Fro riche Romulus to Rome ricchis hym swyþe,
With gret bobbaunce þat bur3e he biges vpon fyrst,
And neuenes hit his aune nome, as hit now hat;
Ticius to Tuskan and teldes bigynnes,
Langaberde in Lumbardie lyftes vp homes,
And fer ouer þe French flod Felix Brutus
On mony bonkkes ful brode Bretayn he settez wyth wynne,
Where werre and wrake and wonder
Bi syþez hatz wont þerinne,
And oft boþe blysse and blunder
Ful skete hatz skyfted synne.

Good point. If we have to be non-anachronistic... then THAT is what English looked like around 1100.
(Plus... every alien race ever encountered on Star Trek just happens to speak English... right?)

Yo, bro, let it go.

[SJS4]

(Plus... every alien race ever encountered on Star Trek just happens to speak English... right?)

Universal translator FTW.

ST:DS9 had a couple episodes where the universal translator didn't work (once when meeting a new race and once when they broke while some Ferengi were on Earth in the past). Hijinks ensued!

[Donovan]

A scene in a book featuring two people who regenerate severed body parts and live forever, and it's the dialogue that's considered to be unbelievable.

Yo, I understand the point you're making, but for me this is not a dealbreaker, bro.

[lorddunlow]

(Plus... every alien race ever encountered on Star Trek just happens to speak English... right?)

Universal translator FTW.

ST:DS9 had a couple episodes where the universal translator didn't work (once when meeting a new race and once when they broke while some Ferengi were on Earth in the past). Hijinks ensued!

There's also the TNG episode with the race that speaks only in idioms and references to history and local legends, so the translator can provide a literal translation, but they are otherwise incomprehensible as there is no context.

[grendeljd]

(Plus... every alien race ever encountered on Star Trek just happens to speak English... right?)

Universal translator FTW.

ST:DS9 had a couple episodes where the universal translator didn't work (once when meeting a new race and once when they broke while some Ferengi were on Earth in the past). Hijinks ensued!

There's also the TNG episode with the race that speaks only in idioms and references to history and local legends, so the translator can provide a literal translation, but they are otherwise incomprehensible as there is no context.

'Sokath - his eyes uncovered!'

Lorddunlow, FTW! I love that episode. And a great point - there is actually a simple, reasonable concept to explain all the 'alien English' in Star Trek that makes no sense otherwise.

I'm not some grumpy old so-and-so who is trying to hate on the book, here - nor do I take my fictional entertainment so seriously that I am all hung-up on a minor detail. But I also don't believe in just arbitrarily writing off ideas/concepts/dialogue/etc. that maybe don't work so well just because they're part of something fictional.

I did say that this was a minor detail to nitpick, and it didn't ruin my enjoyment of the issue as a whole. I wasn't implying I need to see historically accurate dialogue written as precisely as possible whether its incomprehensible or not as some have suggested above. I just thought the dialogue could have been a little better in that moment from the past, and would have been just as funny without the modern slang.

Someone else suggested it may be due to Ivar's time travelling that they know of slang (and more) from other time periods... Not a bad idea, actually - I didn't think of that!

[BugsySig]

Shaka when the walls fell...

And just to complete the circle, the story Picard told the alien captain after he was injured was the Epic of Gilgamesh...which we all know is based on the Brothers Anni-Padda

[greg]

Darpan and Gilad, on the ocean.

[Savant]

'Yo' and 'Bro'!...I didn't realise those phrases had been around since the 1100's? dear oh dear oh dear? As usual lots of interesting aspects to A&A but let down by lack of attention to detail.

Armstrong's not only an immortal, but also a cool cat whose hip linguistic skills pre-date the masses by hundreds upon hundreds of years.

but here we have A&A in Iran (or Iraq?) using current buzz phrases like 'Bro'?

The opening page says, "Alamut, Northern Persia (Now Iran)" ......It's next to the city my family's from (Qazvin).

On a side note, Armstrong smoking hash might've been an inside joke from Van Lente most readers likely didn't catch. Alamut was where the Order of the Assassins, led by Hassan-e Sabbah, had their stronghold. They were called the Asasiyun, but enemies ended up referring to them as "Hashish-iyun" or "Hashashin." Hashashin was originally used by Arab enemies as a derogatory way of putting them down by claiming they're all hash-smokers. The Arabs didn't seem very inventive with their insults, but I'll give them leeway as it was around a thousand years ago.......Anyway, "Hashashin" is the word that stuck, historically......Also, the Order of the Assassins (Asasiyun) is the foundation of the etymology of the word "assassin" used in English.

Anyway, as Shakespeare once said 'peace out homeboys'!

I wouldn't be surprised if the dialogue in the Jive scene in Airplane was copied from Shakespeare's lost manuscripts.

[Dallow Spicer1]

'Yo' and 'Bro'!...I didn't realise those phrases had been around since the 1100's? dear oh dear oh dear? As usual lots of interesting aspects to A&A but let down by lack of attention to detail.

Armstrong's not only an immortal, but also a cool cat whose hip linguistic skills pre-date the masses by hundreds upon hundreds of years.

but here we have A&A in Iran (or Iraq?) using current buzz phrases like 'Bro'?

The opening page says, "Alamut, Northern Persia (Now Iran)" ......It's next to the city my family's from (Qazvin).

On a side note, Armstrong smoking hash might've been an inside joke from Van Lente most readers likely didn't catch. Alamut was where the Order of the Assassins, led by Hassan-e Sabbah, had their stronghold. They were called the Asasiyun, but enemies ended up referring to them as "Hashish-iyun" or "Hashashin." Hashashin was originally used by Arab enemies as a derogatory way of putting them down by claiming they're all hash-smokers. The Arabs didn't seem very inventive with their insults, but I'll give them leeway as it was around a thousand years ago.......Anyway, "Hashashin" is the word that stuck, historically......Also, the Order of the Assassins (Asasiyun) is the foundation of the etymology of the word "assassin" used in English.

Anyway, as Shakespeare once said 'peace out homeboys'!

I wouldn't be surprised if the dialogue in the Jive scene in Airplane was copied from Shakespeare's lost manuscripts.

I like your explanation of Armstrong being a hip trend setter way ahead of his time, that's the most plausible one I've read! Thanks for the additional historical Iranian/Arabian detail too, that certainly adds a new layer to the story which was previous unappreciated!