new valiant vs old valiant

[ShotsOfBlood]

So, I'm relatively new to Valiant. As I had mentioned in my intro post, I had a few back in the day that I read but don't really remember - I remember thinking the Eternal Warrior issues I had were decent at the time. Going back and reading the first series stuff is painful in some ways after reading the new stuff. I am finding I really don't like Jim Shooter's writing - he writes these books just like stan lee was writing in the 60s. Then again, maybe I'm spoiled by the more mature themes and writing in the new stuff.

I know there is a certain nostalgia there for those that read these books when they came out - but am I incorrect in judging them in this manner given my exposure to them 20 years later? I do like that the stories were more compressed (though, weren't all comics back then?), though.

I am also noticing the new stories don't match the old ones exactly as far as origins and such. For example, X-O - the stories are similar, but a bit different. I think I like the new one better - the "spider people" of the original series is just very .. cheesy? Is this a new "take" on the Valiant universe, or a re-telling, not meant to really mesh with prior releases?

[greg]

Is this a new "take" on the Valiant universe, or a re-telling, not meant to really mesh with prior releases?

The Valiant 2012+ books are keeping the "core concepts" of each character... for example, X-O is still a Visigoth in an alien sentient suit of armor, stolen from his captors aboard a ship, who returns to Earth in the present, and fighting against the race of aliens.

But beyond the "core concepts", Valiant 2012+ is "best idea wins".

Knowing the original Valiant allows us to compare and contrast, it also makes the new Valiant "familiar" in terms of the core of these characters, but anyone picking up new Valiant for the first time doesn't need to know anything about prior Valiant.
1990s Valiant is not "canon" for Valiant 2012. It's the same seeds, but a different forest is being grown.

It's a "reboot" or similar to Marvel's "Ultimate" line... where Ultimate Spider-man's year 2000 origin is familiar, but not exactly like 1962.

[BugsySig]

What Greg said

[ShotsOfBlood]

Ok great, thanks for explaining that I'm still reading the older stuff, anyhow

[ian_house]

Spider-aliens weren't cheesy

[kevinbastos]

To add to Greg...

I don't know if all the old Valiant could be called 'cheesy...' Archer & Armstrong's first few issues - and especially the zero issue launch - are particularly brilliant. SOLAR's origin is masterful, and the first eight issues of Magnus are masterful.

That being said, those comics are absolutely reflections of the time. To read something from 1991 under the context or eyes of today isn't fair. Funnily enough, I've been reading many of them over the last few years - and continually find myself saying that the stories were purposely focused at a less sophisticated audience. They were geared toward me in 1992 - not today. And my expectations were different. I found myself really connecting with Harbinger, its characters, and the story then. Today, I don't/didn't. My twelve year old, on the other hand... REALLY connected with the stories then AND now.

[nutflush76]

To add to Greg...

I don't know if all the old Valiant could be called 'cheesy...' Archer & Armstrong's first few issues - and especially the zero issue launch - are particularly brilliant. SOLAR's origin is masterful, and the first eight issues of Magnus are masterful.

That being said, those comics are absolutely reflections of the time. To read something from 1991 under the context or eyes of today isn't fair. Funnily enough, I've been reading many of them over the last few years - and continually find myself saying that the stories were purposely focused at a less sophisticated audience. They were geared toward me in 1992 - not today. And my expectations were different. I found myself really connecting with Harbinger, its characters, and the story then. Today, I don't/didn't. My twelve year old, on the other hand... REALLY connected with the stories then AND now.

I think you bring up a good point about who the comics were geared toward in 1991. I think that was at the tail end of comics being written for the teenage/ Kid audience. Now, they are geared toward the adult audience. So, it would be natural that an adult going back and reading those comics for the first time would not be as impressed as we were.

I also think that, to a point, some long-time Valiant readers are turned off by the VEI stuff because it's not EXACTLY the way it was. Of course I guess any comic goes through that struggle.

Times change, story preferences change, and audiences change. To me, that is one of the most interesting things about reading comics.

[kevinbastos]

I also think that, to a point, some long-time Valiant readers are turned off by the VEI stuff because it's not EXACTLY the way it was. Of course I guess any comic goes through that struggle.

I, for one, am glad that it isn't the way it was. Remember the way it was. Not how we recollect it. And read them again. They didn't succeed then. They had their day. And, unfortunately, failed.

[Dr. Solar]

Compared to the majority of comics coming out in 1991 and 1992, Valiant was incredible.

Looking back at it now, it is very much a relic of its time.

[BugsySig]

I still read and enjoy the originals. They're good. But they wouldn't sell today. Concepts and approaches need to be modernized.

[KXXX]

Spider-aliens weren't cheesy

Sorry, sir... they were.

When I first started collecting Valiant almost ten years ago I was very much put off by the spider aliens. The worst part is the name. Spider Alien? Really? *SQUEE* what? *SQUEE* Tiger Monsters was taken? Come on.

They worked pretty well in a lot of regards, but the concept was still silly enough. All they did was take something from Earth and say it wasn't, it was smart and it had space ships. Whoop-dee do!

I love them, but yes.... cheese.

[KXXX]

As for OP, you'l find stuff you like and stuff you don't. It's also a matter of opinion.

Case in point: a lot of people rant about VH1 Harbinger... I think it's awful.

Magnus, on the other hand, has been a solid book through the first 30 or so I've read... some points are better than others, but I don't feel the quality ever drops drastically.

VH1 Shadowman was a sick book and although I like the concept of the Acclaim version more, VH1 Shadowman beats the balls off of the new one.

[Dr. Solar]

Case in point: a lot of people rant about VH1 Harbinger... I think it's awful.

What?!? Serial?!?

You need to go read RULE 16.

[KXXX]

"I can have you anytime... but this is a good beer"

Says Torque...

...holding a *SQUEE* Coors.

[lorddunlow]

Case in point: a lot of people rant about VH1 Harbinger... I think it's awful.

What?!? Serial?!?

You need to go read RULE 16.

+1

[KXXX]

It doesn't say all

[lorddunlow]

It doesn't say all

Obviously a typo. Greg can correct it later. Nothing beats a Bud!

Edit: to remove my typo about a typo!

[KXXX]

I'll consider myself grandfathered in

[Baramos]

"Cheesiness" of the old Valiant varies a bit from comic to comic...I'd say titles like Psi-Warriors or Magnus or Rai were often throwbacks to sci-fi comics of the '50s, the cheesiness of some of the robots and such was intentional. It's supposed to be pulpy.

I don't think you can argue that titles like Shadowman or The Second Life of Dr. Mirage are cheesy. They're fairly dark and serious or tackle serious topics. Harbinger is the same, it's not cheesy.

Others vary a bit. Sometimes X-O Manowar came off as unintentionally overwrought, though not necessarily cheesy. Archer & Armstrong was supposed to be funny and satirical.

I do prefer the new ones because they are taking more time with characterization and plot development instead of just constant action.

[GGSAE]

You definitely don't need to read VH1 to enjoy VE1....I would say VE1 books are definitely better, simply because the comic market is far more competitive now than it was 20+ years ago, where kids and adults didn't have endless sources of entertainment...I mean think of a world without internet porn!

[MarkRoseHFX]

"I can have you anytime... but this is a good beer"

Says Torque...

...holding a *SQUEE* Coors.

he was a *SQUEE* that enjoyed ty beer.

[cjv]

But beyond the "core concepts", Valiant 2012+ is "best idea wins".

I read somewhere else that someone interpreted "best idea wins" as no overall game plan or strategy for the universe. I am not sure I agree with this - it may be that the best idea IS an overall strategy, or the best idea WITHIN the strategy, etc.

Having said that, I really DO hope there is a strategy - a game book moving forward that details the big ideas, not simply going from one story arc to another. This kind of tight continuity (not just books interacting with each other, but rather the idea that there may be hints for a story many issues in advance, that there is an overall plan) was one thing I liked about V-old.

One thing I do miss is the consistent time frame - time passed in the comics just like it did in the real world. The decompression is to be expected, but I hope they still have the passage of time reflected in the comics.

Chris

[slym2none]

Old books - VALIANT (all caps, all the time)
New books - Valiant





-slym

[cjv]

Spider-aliens weren't cheesy

Sorry, sir... they were.

When I first started collecting Valiant almost ten years ago I was very much put off by the spider aliens. The worst part is the name. Spider Alien? Really? *SQUEE* what? *SQUEE* Tiger Monsters was taken? Come on.

They were called spider aliens because...well, they looked like spiders that were aliens (plus the way they fed).

If I recall correctly, we didn't ever find out what the alien race called itself, did we?

Chris

[Burrito Boy]

I finally read the first two issues of the new Harbinger and didn't enjoy them as much as I did the old Harbinger. Maybe I'm just immature?