Harbinger Wars #4 Discussion

[bygranddesign]

I've been on that train since way back in May .. Welcome aboard

When Harada expelled the nanite infected blood into Saturn and killed her and thus killed the nanites it tells me that when those nanites entered the P.R.S Mainframe they were there to stay and the only way to rid them from the MF was to DESTROY it! And I would think that this MF would be waaaay too valuable to destroy. In this incarnation of HARD Corps they work for P.R.S so it would make sense that (after the dust settles from the Harbinger Wars) that instead of their powers being activated by P.R.S Operators they would be controlled by the Nanite "Goldies" that now control PRS MF and headquarters. And naturally Bloodshot which has a link to the MF through the nanites would be the perfect leader for H.A.R.D Corps because of that. P.R.S would clean house and no longer be the "bad guys".

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=40072" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Bl00dsh0t]

Actually I take back that comment about HARD Corps. The Generation Zero psiots are the ones who really stole the show. I forgot that awesome introduction they had in HW1. I like how Christian refers to Chronus as his "slave name". What a cool character. Like I sad previously, I love his leadership and caring nature towards these kids. Dysart creates yet another great group of characters.

Cronus may have become my favorite character after this issue. Dysart has created/written him amazingly. The death of many of the children under his protection is only going to drive him further toward the edge. He has amazing possibility as the third member of a Psiot Trinity with Pete and Harada. I also hope the bloody hand print becomes his symbol...visually striking and meaningful.

Cronus is one of the best characters in the Valiant U to date. He's been top of the list for me since putting the bloody hand print on his outfit.

[Bl00dsh0t]

and left HARD Corps without Lifeline.

I'm thinking they're going to use Bloodshot and his nanites as the new Lifeline. PRS will upload the Harbinger powers into the nanites, and Bloodshot himself will act as a mobile Lifeline, in charge of HARD Corps.

I like it

[hunter_peterson]

Great issue. Really huge battle that went totally *SQUEE* crazy. I'm really excited for all the fallout of this. Hive's situation is really interesting... I wonder if we'll catch up with him later and maybe have him either become an antagonist or member of the Renegades? And yeah, Traveler is probably connected to the Deadside like Nightcrawler is to the Darkforce Dimension.

Palmer and HARDCorps are great, but how the hell did Maniac survive? He seemed dead as hell. I reckon he's actually a Harbinger Foundation mole planted by Harada, who has a HUGE level of involvement in what comes next in awesome, obvious ways. Like, we know Bloodshot is his prisoner, but what if Faith is as well and she's just assumed dead by the others? Or she could be, you know... dead. Which would suck...

The Generation Zero survivors joining Harada will be incredibly awesome! Can't wait to see more of that. And Little Castle seems like he's not dead and might join the Renegades eventually, which would be cool. Maybe Faith will escape from the Foundation with the assistance of Livewire, Little Castle, Hive, Tellic and Cronus? A really kick-*SQUEE* B-Team would be AMAZING! Love this all!

[bygranddesign]

Palmer and HARDCorps are great, but how the hell did Maniac survive? He seemed dead as hell. I reckon he's actually a Harbinger Foundation mole planted by Harada, who has a HUGE level of involvement in what comes next in awesome, obvious ways.

Maniac had a force field like little castle did when they fell from the Bellagio ... so both probably survived the fall and resulting explosion

I'm not sure if you did the same thing I did - but I initially confused Maniac with Hammerhead. Hammerhead is the one that was falling and asked lifeline for Flight (but lifeline was taken out by Harada) and ended up going SPLAT. I had to re-read it again after I saw Maniac alive at the end to realize that.

[bygranddesign]

Loved the issue. Don't think Hammerhead died, as I think he's in promos for the Bloodshot & HARDCorps title. But, who knows?...

definitely looks like Hammerhead on the covers for BS and Hard Corps

I'm not sure if its another case of creating covers too far in advance of the story

or maybe hammerhead did survive afterall

or its another bald guy

[hunter_peterson]

Palmer and HARDCorps are great, but how the hell did Maniac survive? He seemed dead as hell. I reckon he's actually a Harbinger Foundation mole planted by Harada, who has a HUGE level of involvement in what comes next in awesome, obvious ways.

Maniac had a force field like little castle did when they fell from the Bellagio ... so both probably survived the fall and resulting explosion

I'm not sure if you did the same thing I did - but I initially confused Maniac with Hammerhead. Hammerhead is the one that was falling and asked lifeline for Flight (but lifeline was taken out by Harada) and ended up going SPLAT. I had to re-read it again after I saw Maniac alive at the end to realize that.

Ah, that would explain that. But their powers also cut out, so I thought his shield went away. Good enough excuse to reread the mini when I'm more awake.

[apainter]

I'm not sure if you did the same thing I did - but I initially confused Maniac with Hammerhead. Hammerhead is the one that was falling and asked lifeline for Flight (but lifeline was taken out by Harada) and ended up going SPLAT. I had to re-read it again after I saw Maniac alive at the end to realize that.

That happened to me too. I confused the bald guy with the other, mostly bald guy.

The only part of the issue I'm not crazy about is Morris Kozol's debriefing. He's portrayed as an incompetent stooge throughout the series. In the end, his superiors kill his lawyer, then give him a hundred billion dollars to continue to do the job he's demonstrated an inability to do effectively. Do they think scaring the <redacted> out of him will suddenly make him competent? Josh has been amazing with characters, but I can't quite swallow Kozol and these "evil guv'ment" guys at all. They'd be more appropriate as A&A villains, where the tone is a bit more on the goofy side.

Art

[CallMeBloodshot]

I'm not sure if you did the same thing I did - but I initially confused Maniac with Hammerhead. Hammerhead is the one that was falling and asked lifeline for Flight (but lifeline was taken out by Harada) and ended up going SPLAT. I had to re-read it again after I saw Maniac alive at the end to realize that.

That happened to me too. I confused the bald guy with the other, mostly bald guy.

The only part of the issue I'm not crazy about is Morris Kozol's debriefing. He's portrayed as an incompetent stooge throughout the series. In the end, his superiors kill his lawyer, then give him a hundred billion dollars to continue to do the job he's demonstrated an inability to do effectively. Do they think scaring the <redacted> out of him will suddenly make him competent? Josh has been amazing with characters, but I can't quite swallow Kozol and these "evil guv'ment" guys at all. They'd be more appropriate as A&A villains, where the tone is a bit more on the goofy side.

Art

Spot on about Kozol. I was thinking the exact same thing at the end of this issue. Can't think of why they would ever do this unless he's their only option (considering the amount of PRS people who've died).

[BugsySig]

I'm not sure if you did the same thing I did - but I initially confused Maniac with Hammerhead. Hammerhead is the one that was falling and asked lifeline for Flight (but lifeline was taken out by Harada) and ended up going SPLAT. I had to re-read it again after I saw Maniac alive at the end to realize that.

That happened to me too. I confused the bald guy with the other, mostly bald guy.

The only part of the issue I'm not crazy about is Morris Kozol's debriefing. He's portrayed as an incompetent stooge throughout the series. In the end, his superiors kill his lawyer, then give him a hundred billion dollars to continue to do the job he's demonstrated an inability to do effectively. Do they think scaring the <redacted> out of him will suddenly make him competent? Josh has been amazing with characters, but I can't quite swallow Kozol and these "evil guv'ment" guys at all. They'd be more appropriate as A&A villains, where the tone is a bit more on the goofy side.

Art

Spot on about Kozol. I was thinking the exact same thing at the end of this issue. Can't think of why they would ever do this unless he's their only option (considering the amount of PRS people who've died).

They think he will be easy to control...at least that's the sense I got from it. I have a feeling, however, he will not be a pushover and will end up more devious and resourceful than we have seen.

[AnthonyF]

I'm not sure if you did the same thing I did - but I initially confused Maniac with Hammerhead. Hammerhead is the one that was falling and asked lifeline for Flight (but lifeline was taken out by Harada) and ended up going SPLAT. I had to re-read it again after I saw Maniac alive at the end to realize that.

That happened to me too. I confused the bald guy with the other, mostly bald guy.

The only part of the issue I'm not crazy about is Morris Kozol's debriefing. He's portrayed as an incompetent stooge throughout the series. In the end, his superiors kill his lawyer, then give him a hundred billion dollars to continue to do the job he's demonstrated an inability to do effectively. Do they think scaring the <redacted> out of him will suddenly make him competent? Josh has been amazing with characters, but I can't quite swallow Kozol and these "evil guv'ment" guys at all. They'd be more appropriate as A&A villains, where the tone is a bit more on the goofy side.

Art

Spot on about Kozol. I was thinking the exact same thing at the end of this issue. Can't think of why they would ever do this unless he's their only option (considering the amount of PRS people who've died).

Remind me, what happened to Kozol's boss? When did he get wacked/go missing?

[AnthonyF]

I was looking forward to this book more than any other title VEI put out, and it held up to expectations! But also left tons of story threads. Only Harada came out on top, gaining most of the remaining psiots. A little disappointed that Bloodshot hasn't met up with HardCORPS yet, but that a story for another book.


A few nitpicks,

The stupid Zygos twins lived! And didn't come to the realization (on their own) that the war was all their fault.
Why did Maniac need to ask lifeline for shield in issue 4? He already had that power from issue 3. (for being the most unstable, Maniac ended up not killing anybody)

[bygranddesign]

They think he will be easy to control...at least that's the sense I got from it. I have a feeling, however, he will not be a pushover and will end up more devious and resourceful than we have seen.

I agree with this

I didn't see him as a complete moron/incompetent person

I do think he is a *SQUEE* ... but MOST people in positions of power are *SQUEE*

Its also common to see the people who have a hand in causing a mess as the people that help stay on to help clean up said mess (see - 2008 economic crisis)

[Captain Craig]

I wasn't surprised by the death toll, we knew there had to be some casualties. The adjective is WAR in the title afterall, certain things happen in war. The seeming fate of the H.A.R.D. Corps surprised me, given we've seen covers for BS&HC 14. Also, Faith, based on covers of upcoming Harbinger issues she seems destined to be alright in the end. Really, her take down didn't seem very brutal compared to what else was happening in the issue.

Chronos and what's left of Generation Zero now under Harada control was the big shocker for me. I expected them to go their own way.

[Keith]

Any speculation on what the Monk meant at the end? That he was lying to Peter?

[tchalla8]

Any speculation on what the Monk meant at the end? That he was lying to Peter?

That's what I was wondering. What exactly was the lie?

[BugsySig]

Any speculation on what the Monk meant at the end? That he was lying to Peter?

That's what I was wondering. What exactly was the lie?

That he needed to save the children, when in fact the Monk wanted the children with Harada.

[vaevictis]

I wonder if the Gen Zero kids will become the new Troublemakers or Secret Weapons. Valiant has already shown that they are not afraid to flip things around and shake 'em up.

[BugsySig]

I wonder if the Gen Zero kids will become the new Troublemakers or Secret Weapons. Valiant has already shown that they are not afraid to flip things around and shake 'em up.

When we first saw Clayton Crain's Gen Zero pages previewed I made the comparison visually to Troublemakers. Some of the other powers/abilities we've seen from the group are similar as well. I wouldn't rule it out.

I definitely see Cronus as a future adversary/antagonist to both Pete and Harada down the line, though.

[vaevictis]

I think how Chronos was used to show us how Pete could/should be as a leader. I definitely think it was a glimpse into the future. Chronos commands respect and loyalty. He is pretty efficient.

[CallMeBloodshot]

Any speculation on what the Monk meant at the end? That he was lying to Peter?

That's what I was wondering. What exactly was the lie?

That he needed to save the children, when in fact the Monk wanted the children with Harada.

Maybe he wanted Peter to meet with Chronus. If Chronus had run into Harada first, he might have thought Harada was there to do good and joined up more open minded. But since things went about differently maybe this will save Chronus and Gen Zero, a group whose role the monk might deem of greater importance.

[Kertes]

*SQUEE* those Zygos twins man. I hope Maniac will find those two snotty little *SQUEE* and blow their *SQUEE* brains out.

Fitting end to the mini-series, never anticipated it would end up the way it did!

[tchalla8]

*SQUEE* those Zygos twins man. I hope Maniac will find those two snotty little *SQUEE* and blow their *SQUEE* brains out.

It's those uni-brows, man. Seriously, I want rip 'em off their foreheads and then them right in their until they

[bygranddesign]

Also, Faith, based on covers of upcoming Harbinger issues she seems destined to be alright in the end. Really, her take down didn't seem very brutal compared to what else was happening in the issue.

we haven't seen how she gets taken out yet. After she is free from Clem's influence, she flys up to take on the fighter jets that were en route to bomb the Bellagio. We don't see what happens to her in this issue, only that Kris says she didn't make it (something to that effect/don't have the issue in front of me) we'll find out in next weeks Harbinger what actually happens to her

I don't think she is gonna die ... but I also wouldn't put too much stock in the covers. They are made so far in advance of the story + joe irons is on one of the covers and we know he's dead

[BugsySig]

Also, Faith, based on covers of upcoming Harbinger issues she seems destined to be alright in the end. Really, her take down didn't seem very brutal compared to what else was happening in the issue.

we haven't seen how she gets taken out yet. After she is free from Clem's influence, she flys up to take on the fighter jets that were en route to bomb the Bellagio. We don't see what happens to her in this issue, only that Kris says she didn't make it (something to that effect/don't have the issue in front of me) we'll find out in next weeks Harbinger what actually happens to her

I don't think she is gonna die ... but I also wouldn't put too much stock in the covers. They are made so far in advance of the story + joe irons is on one of the covers and we know he's dead

One of the upcoming issues focuses on the cartoon animal girl (sorry I cant recall her name)...She also fought the fighter jets and we do not see her at the end of HW#4 being taken by Harada. Perhaps she, Faith and even Little Castle/Isaiah are together somewhere...the B-Squad!