Does Dark Horse consider this line a success?

[StarBrand]

I was thinking about this line last night. Dark Horse seems to have bungled the entire launch. However, it occurred to me they might have turned a profit, in view of having put out a couple tpbs along with the regular books. Any chance Dark Horse is satisfied with the results of their Dark-Key line?

[kevinbastos]

My guess would be probably not, especially with the success that Valiant has been having. Certainly problems came from many balls being dropped, but the Dark Horse launch was probably closer to what I would have done, too (one cover, few variants, Shooter). But the other problems (delays, changes in writing, art) caused unsolvable problems.

[leonmallett]

My guess would be probably not, especially with the success that Valiant has been having. Certainly problems came from many balls being dropped, but the Dark Horse launch was probably closer to what I would have done, too (one cover, few variants, Shooter). But the other problems (delays, changes in writing, art) caused unsolvable problems.

I suspect the handling (the schedule was poorly kept) and the knock-on effects contributed to any decision about lapsing the license to publish new material.

[nonplayer]

They got me off my but and got me in the store buying comics again. Then screwed me around now Im buying lots of comics and to this day and forevermore will never buy a dark horse comic again. So yes they did lose money. Bad bad bad company.

[StarBrand]

They got me off my but and got me in the store buying comics again. Then screwed me around now Im buying lots of comics and to this day and forevermore will never buy a dark horse comic again. So yes they did lose money. Bad bad bad company.

I certainly look at Dark Horse in a far more negative light after the way they handled this launch. I was frankly somewhat stunned at how poorly managed this launch was by Dark Horse, in view of all the experience they have publishing comic books.

[leonmallett]

They got me off my but and got me in the store buying comics again. Then screwed me around now Im buying lots of comics and to this day and forevermore will never buy a dark horse comic again. So yes they did lose money. Bad bad bad company.

I certainly look at Dark Horse in a far more negative light after the way they handled this launch. I was frankly somewhat stunned at how poorly managed this launch was by Dark Horse, in view of all the experience they have publishing comic books.

Is that down to DH alone, or the guiding light behind the GK line at DH?

[StarBrand]

They got me off my but and got me in the store buying comics again. Then screwed me around now Im buying lots of comics and to this day and forevermore will never buy a dark horse comic again. So yes they did lose money. Bad bad bad company.

I certainly look at Dark Horse in a far more negative light after the way they handled this launch. I was frankly somewhat stunned at how poorly managed this launch was by Dark Horse, in view of all the experience they have publishing comic books.

Is that down to DH alone, or the guiding light behind the GK line at DH?

I'm not sure i understand your question, but if you're asking if I think less of Dark Horse as a publisher after this launch, yes I do.

[leonmallett]

They got me off my but and got me in the store buying comics again. Then screwed me around now Im buying lots of comics and to this day and forevermore will never buy a dark horse comic again. So yes they did lose money. Bad bad bad company.

I certainly look at Dark Horse in a far more negative light after the way they handled this launch. I was frankly somewhat stunned at how poorly managed this launch was by Dark Horse, in view of all the experience they have publishing comic books.

Is that down to DH alone, or the guiding light behind the GK line at DH?

I'm not sure i understand your question, but if you're asking if I think less of Dark Horse as a publisher after this launch, yes I do.

Sorry for being vague.

What I meant, should a large part of the handling this be laid at Jim Shooter's door?

[SJS4]

I tend to buy quite a few DH books, but even back in the 90's they had a penchant for screwing up. They had publishing/deadline screw ups on some of their biggest properties (Star Wars, Predator, etc...).

I don't think they are underhanded or unscrupulous though, they just mess up sometimes. For my money they get enough right that overall i am happy with them as a publisher. BPRD (and other Hellboy lines) and Dark Horse Presents are some of my favorite comics each month, so i can't realistically get mad.

I wish they had done a better job on the Gold Key relaunch. I thought Solar was really well done on the second arc and i was really looking forward to the tie-in between Solar and Magnus. Shooter clearly had a plan, he just didn't get a chance to fully realize it.

[xodacia81]

They got me off my but and got me in the store buying comics again. Then screwed me around now Im buying lots of comics and to this day and forevermore will never buy a dark horse comic again. So yes they did lose money. Bad bad bad company.

I certainly look at Dark Horse in a far more negative light after the way they handled this launch. I was frankly somewhat stunned at how poorly managed this launch was by Dark Horse, in view of all the experience they have publishing comic books.

Is that down to DH alone, or the guiding light behind the GK line at DH?

I'm not sure i understand your question, but if you're asking if I think less of Dark Horse as a publisher after this launch, yes I do.

Sorry for being vague.

What I meant, should a large part of the handling this be laid at Jim Shooter's door?

The question wasn't directed at me, but I will answer it. I'm going to say yes, and I know that can get a fellow killed in these parts, but let me explain, for those who are not as open to "Jim Shooting" as it were.

I love what Shooter did at Valiant, and later at Defiant and Broadway. His work at VEI, in two short stories, was really nice. But, that's it. Since Broadway collapsed, everything Shooter has done has turned to *SQUEE*. Now, is this all on Jim? No. But I think he rubs people the wrong way. I think he has a very specific way of doing things, which works for him. The question is, does it still work? To a degree, but he's never been one to work well in groups, and he leaves no bridge unburned when he leaves. Like many great artists-and make no mistake, he is a great artist-he has a certain temperament, from what I can gather, and that has lead to problems.

Since Broadway, you have a failed comic based on what can only be called a cultish idea from a rich lady with too much time on her hands, a failed return to DC for LEGION (which isn't all down to Jim), the VEI exit, and the Dark Horse Gold Key collapse. I found his work in that "7 book"-which I've seen, to be uninspiring. Same with everything else, aside from those 2 short stories. There was nothing there to tell me that this was Jim Shooter, the guy who, as a kid, wrote some of the best LEGION books ever, and who ran Marvel during one of its most consistent periods. The man who launched the greatest shared universe of the modern era.

I think it's a combination of things. I think the way comics are made, and the way Shooter makes comics, don't mesh. I think he, at least used to, trust people, maybe the wrong people, too easily, for whatever reasons. I suspect a desire to get his product on the shelf and entertain the readers/turn a profit. But the "Dark Key" line was badly thought out. One could tell it was rushed. Part of that is on Shooter, part of that is on the publisher. His work for VEI, with those two short stories, was very good, and felt like a homecoming. But still, something felt a little off.

If Jim Shooter started a new company-if he announced on Monday that he was making a go of things again-I would be all over it. I don't hate the guy. I don't think he's talentless. But, I do think that Shooter and modern publishing are an odd pairing. He can't be blamed for the art looking like crap, although if he had editorial control, he can be blamed for the panel arrangement, of which he is an avowed fan of the simple, 6-panel page.

For me, this failure hurt, because I love these characters. I knew it wasn't VALIANT, but it was new stuff, from Shooter, with these characters. Part of the failure, I think, is in our expectations as fans. But, even so, what we got wasn't prime Shooter. If that guy ever shows up again, the business is in for a wild ride.

[StarBrand]

Very good analysis, xodacia81. I must say, though, that the Doctor Solar new origin that appeared as backups in issues 5-8 of the Dark Horse Gold Key run was Shooter at the very top of his game. JC Vaughn called it the best script he's ever read. It was out of the park. I know a lot of people gave up on those books before it came out, though.

[xodacia81]

Very good analysis, xodacia81. I must say, though, that the Doctor Solar new origin that appeared as backups in issues 5-8 of the Dark Horse Gold Key run was Shooter at the very top of his game. JC Vaughn called it the best script he's ever read. It was out of the park. I know a lot of people gave up on those books before it came out, though.

I did and regret that. I'm aware of how great its supposed to be and that's why I won't call Shooter washed up, but he's not as consistent as he once was.

[Cyberstrike]

Very good analysis, xodacia81. I must say, though, that the Doctor Solar new origin that appeared as backups in issues 5-8 of the Dark Horse Gold Key run was Shooter at the very top of his game. JC Vaughn called it the best script he's ever read. It was out of the park. I know a lot of people gave up on those books before it came out, though.

I did and regret that. I'm aware of how great its supposed to be and that's why I won't call Shooter washed up, but he's not as consistent as he once was.

I think some of it is a LOT (not all comics written for any major publishers but at least a huge portion of them) are written for trade. I honestly don't think that is one of Shooter's strenghs and talents. Yeah he can write a story for a certian number issues, but his strengh is slow paced and world building (especially where he has the build universe) and a lot of people don't have the patience (and maybe the time) to sit down and read his kind of stories or maybe fans have grown up and find his style not what they wanted.

I wanted to be able enjoy reading Dr. Solar but I couldn't it was boring and IMHO it was really felt like a bad remake of Solar: Man of The Atom #0 and that wasn't what I wanted to read.