Eternal Warrior #4 Discussion

[tchalla8]

OK, I'm just gonna say it. I have no idea what the @#*$&@ is going on.

[swtor1091]

Haha I felt the same way... How did he start working for the earth again? So many questions that it would take forever to type it up on my phone haha.... I enjoyed it but I do agree. It was a confusing jumbled mess

[blujay]

this book was awesome, I just need clarification on whether the goddess is dead dead or just a temporarily dead. I imagine it's the later, otherwise why serve something/someone that is dead? Well than again isn't Nergal technically "dead"? So there were people serving him, and he's been dead for awhile, so maybe gods can come back?

Yeah ok it was a little confusing, but I feel like the vagueness of this story will be explained later on, either way it was a pretty ingenious way to tie into 4000 AD

[BugsySig]

I really need this arc reconciled with what we have seen of Gilad in A&A (working for the Earth, talking to the Goddess, working for MI6) and Unity (Fighting in WWII). In the summary it says he was retired for over 100 years

It can be reconciled fairly easily, but it needs to be done because it was super distracting. Hopefully the next arc will cover some of this as Kay is shown on the cover to #5.

As for the book itself, it was meh. Wrapped up everything very quickly and the fill-in at the end was distracting. I thought Hairsine did some of his best work thus far this issue, and the flashback art was good as well, but those last couple pages just didn't fit.

Overall I was not too impressed with this opening arc outside of issue 2. I have high hopes for the second arc and 4001 and I'd hate to be disappointed.

[DIrishB]

I really need this arc reconciled with what we have seen of Gilad in A&A (working for the Earth, talking to the Goddess, working for MI6) and Unity (Fighting in WWII). In the summary it says he was retired for over 100 years

I haven't read the issue yet (will pick up my titles tomorrow), so not sure if this answers your question regarding the comparison of Gilad in A&A and this title, but according to Dinesh this first arc of Eternal Warrior occurs 2 years before his appearance in A&A's 2nd arc.

Therefore, he quit in the late 1800's (as shown in the flashbacks in EW #2), lived by himself away from society for a century or so, and then gets drawn back in due to the events of this arc sometime around 2010 (further evidenced by the Geomancer Buck McHenry being alive in the present day portions of EW #1-4, and dying in A&A's first arc sometime in 2012 (which led to Gilad trying to kill Obadiah during the second arc).

[iwantvaliant]

"This is a gunfight." I thought that this was a good conclusion to an odd story. I feel like in two years we'll understand why they started the book before the rest of VEI. I'm really looking forward to next months issue.

[conspiracycamel]

Pak seems to be using ambiguity to tell a larger story. I can dig it, but if Pak doesn't start paying off on these plot threads, he's only going to frustrate readers.

That being said, guys...

4001 AD IN A MONTH!

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

I gotta say, I prefer Diego Bernard's art to Hairsine's. He was the best part of this issue. Didn't really understand what the hell is going on either. But, I feel that Gilad killing "the earth(?)" made it so that he now HAS to serve the earth, because basically, apocalypse will be coming in 2000 years. So, he kinda shot himself in the foot, and will pay the price in 4001.
Ummm.... why did he kill the earth?
And, if he's been retired for 100 years, didn't Unity #1 suggest he fought in WWII? Unless, that just assumes that he fought in the war, but not "for the earth?"

[Manaf82]

A god of the wild is *SQUEE* Satan Lookalike and the god of the Earth is a fairy *SQUEE* princess???

Seriously???

This feels like an afterthought created by Vei...

The houses are not mentioned elsewhere in Valiant.This feels like an out of continuity alternate universe book.

Gilad just seems stupid here..

He is my favorite character and here Greg Pak has reduced him to a Barbarian.Actually he feels more like Aric than Gilad...Worst overall opening arc ever...

[pixierosa]

I really need this arc reconciled with what we have seen of Gilad in A&A (working for the Earth, talking to the Goddess, working for MI6) and Unity (Fighting in WWII). In the summary it says he was retired for over 100 years

It can be reconciled fairly easily, but it needs to be done because it was super distracting. Hopefully the next arc will cover some of this as Kay is shown on the cover to #5.

A lot happened here. Overall, I liked the book, but there was a bit of murk regarding the jump from pounding the geomancer's face to the fight with the park ranger/earth house. Bear with me as I try to figure this out, and sound in on your thoughts.

EW retires from actively serving the earth. He is "retired" for 100 years but ages slowly -- is he still immortal? Can he still heal? He must have some properties to do so or he would have succumbed to age or disease.

The incident that pushed him over the edge was that with the native american woman and infant.

Perhaps he was involved in the MI6 and WWII as part of his own agenda?

Buck deserved a punch in the face, hiding the fact that Mitu was alive for all those years while working shoulder to shoulder with EW. I enjoyed the flashback showing how Mitu understood the price of hunting/killing. Xaran never did.

The tree -- perhaps it was one of the first trees? It's definitely a primal point, and Inyo has some of the world's oldest trees. I don't think destroying her tree killed her (we do see her later in A&A), but it weakened her. That tree serves as sort of a hellmouth, holding back Nergal. (Love that the roots will be weakened enough for escape in the 4001 plot line.)

What's up with Buck? Notice that he doesn't actually answer EW in regards to sending Xaran off to kill the Wild and start a war with the houses. He instead distracts EW with discriminations about the family's hunting predilection. Why start a war? On who's order? Earth's?

EW: Other than he's *SQUEE* off at the Earth and the other gods, what good does destroying Earth do? Does he truly want the world to end? Maybe he thinks that is the only way he will be allowed to die?

Was EW having second thoughts about blowing up the tree? It looks like Xaran made him push the button from the way she had her arm wrapped around him. Odd way to do it as one if not.

Interesting that Earth in her way serves as death. Balance. Some live, some die. Matters not who one prays to, what chaos is caused, just that balance endures.

[JonesyAZ]

I agree that this arc ended up being pretty weak, but because the story takes place prior to a&A 5, I have a feeling that we'll need to stock it out for a bit before it starts making sense.

The weakest book of the week, for sure.

[ThatDarnCabbage]

So I tweeted Greg Pak about the many continuity discrepancies, such as EW's retirement contradicting with his past in other books, the fact that the Earth goddess was alive in A & A, as well as EW's devotion to her in A & A and he replied with:

"Can't respond in detail for fear of spoilers. But there are explanations in my head that may come out as future stories unfold."

[DIrishB]

And, if he's been retired for 100 years, didn't Unity #1 suggest he fought in WWII? Unless, that just assumes that he fought in the war, but not "for the earth?"

Yeah, there've been multiple flashbacks in A&A focusing on Gilad, and a couple have focused on his adventures in the 20th century. Obviously he's not fighting for the benefit of the Earth in those times, given his "retirement". I look at it as he retired--temporarily--as the protector of the Geomancer, but not from being a warrior (he is the Eternal Warrior after all). So from time to time during the 20th century he'd get involved in wars and other human affairs, perhaps out of a personal code of honor or responsibility, perhaps out of boredom.

[BugsySig]

I can reconcile things easily enough on my own, and have offered many of the same explanations as others on this thread in the past, but thats not the point. The point is, you can't say in the summary he was retired for a hundred years because he was tired of fighting if you've already shown him FIGHTING during that period. It's just sloppy.

I'm sorry, but it's not the writer's fault either. A good editor would catch that and say, "Let's tweak the language there so as not to contradict the previously established continuity while not compromising the theme's Pak is going for." When you have a shared universe, which is what separates VALIANT from other small publishers, you need to work a little harder to maintain it. I expect more, especially when you only publish 8 books every month.

End

As far as the looks of the Earth and the Wild, that was explained back in A&A. The Gods appear as you want them to. Gilad and Xaran, being from Mesopotamia, expect to see a traditional Goddess figure. She appears similarly to Gilad in A&A. Meanwhile, she appears as an Australopithecus to Kaye McHenry because she has a more modern, scientific idea of an "Earth Mother." Xaran was probably raised to fear/hate the other Gods and the Wild was likely demonized. Therefore, he appeared to her as a demon.

[Donovan]

So I tweeted Greg Pak about the many continuity discrepancies, such as EW's retirement contradicting with his past in other books, the fact that the Earth goddess was alive in A & A, as well as EW's devotion to her in A & A and he replied with:

"Can't respond in detail for fear of spoilers. But there are explanations in my head that may come out as future stories unfold."

May unfold...? MAY unfold?!?!?!

It better freakin' unfold. Because right now I need an explanation.

I also thought this arc was Hairsine's weakest. He did some great work for Valiant previously, I just didn't feel it this time around. Some of the colouring was a little weak in the storytelling department as well.

[Captain Craig]

Like you guys I was anticipating a bit more clarity in this issue. What I was seriously thinking would happen would be Gilad and Mitu squaring off in a fight. I mean issue #3 ends with the reveal he's serving Death, which is appalling to Gilad and the opposite of what he had been defending as Sword of the Earth. So from that vantage point alone I was disappointed.

Although they did give us a nice representation of the Goddess of the Earth, clearly she's not dead due to events we've already seen but her "Tree", see Prison?, has been weakened and Negral is coming.....kinda like Rai!

I thought the arc looked to be coming together after #3 and then this issue hit and we don't have a lot of closure. I also think that from a narrative standpoint it's bad when the CEO has to mention in an interview the amount of time between the close of this arc an Gilad's introduction in A&A #5. That two years should be alluded to in some narrative manner. It does look like we may see Buck as an active Geomancer during flashbacks of this series. It may set up Kay to get her own book down the road so I'm not totally pooping on things but I am passing gas in it's general direction for now.

3.5 stars out of 5

[vaevictis]

My experience with VEI so far is that the books in general are quick reads but I think this one takes the cake. It was over way too fast and just didn't over the story along enough. Its like its only purpose was to state that 4001A.D. is coming next.

As far as timeline, If we assume that the whole 2000 years to prepare is a fairly generalized and rounded number, with that I would think this book takes place between 2000 and 2010. So it would take place a few years before A&A #5.

[lorddunlow]

I'm really enjoying this book. I like the confusing aspect of not knowing exactly what is going on. It leaves me speculating over and over until the next issue (and even past it). Reading the comments in this thread remind me of the discussion that we had about the early Bloodshot issues. Most felt that it came together once we got more reveals. I'm hoping this book continues to baffle and confuse. It's awesome, just like Bloodshot.

I will agree that it is not a meaty read per issue. I hate that. Very few books contain much at all in a single issue nowadays. It is unfortunate.

[bygranddesign]

I'm not getting the negativity at all in this thread - this was the strongest overall issue of the week IMO. I thought the art was strong throughout and the story much more focused than last weeks issue. I think Pak's skills as a writer were on full display as he linked the past with the present and brought the narrative full circle - Mitu fleshed out further as Gilad's favorite - sensitive and tragic person who now serves Death ... and Xaran as reckless and defiant as ever ... and Gilad had some great moments trying to reconcile all these revelations about his children.

I thought the narrative was focused and brought the arc to a satisfying end while building up anticipation for a 4001 arc that we now know will be focused on the potential release of Nergal.

I'm not sure where there would be confusion - Gilad and Xaran destroyed a tree that was trapping Nergal in his prison. Obviously we know they didn't actually kill the Earth Goddess.

[BugsySig]

I'm not totally pooping on things but I am passing gas in it's general direction

Future custom.

Greg, take note.

[bygranddesign]

EW: Other than he's *SQUEE* off at the Earth and the other gods, what good does destroying Earth do? Does he truly want the world to end? Maybe he thinks that is the only way he will be allowed to die?

I don't believe he think the world will end. As Xaran says "There has to be a better way". I think Gilad and Xaran have come to the conclusion that these "Gods" cause more harm than good ... and the world MIGHT be better off without them.

Was EW having second thoughts about blowing up the tree? It looks like Xaran made him push the button from the way she had her arm wrapped around him. Odd way to do it as one if not.

I think he was perhaps questioning himself on whether this IS the right thing to do ... and was feeling the burden of taking it on himself. It sounded like he was glad that Xaran pushed the button for him.

Xaran and Mitu seem to have inherited completely different sides of their father's personality - I really enjoyed that symmetry.

[jmatt]

I'm not getting the negativity at all in this thread ... I'm not sure where there would be confusion - Gilad and Xaran destroyed a tree that was trapping Nergal in his prison. Obviously we know they didn't actually kill the Earth Goddess.

I'm in agreement that I liked this issue, it cleared up some questions from last month's. It helped that I reread last month's before digging into this one.

I'm a little ambivalent about the overall concept though. The houses are an interesting idea and set in motion a lot of potential conflict to be played with by the writer. But turning Gilad into an a-hole intent on destroying the Earth god? I like my good guys to be, I dunno, good. I'm finding myself rooting against him. There's no one to like in this title.

As for the overall approach to selecting story arcs: Please, dumb it down a little or explain it better. The book is obviously confusing the heck out of readers. In the author's head everything makes sense because he has the big picture. But we don't. This ain't a Quentin Tarantino movie and we won't see in the next 20 minutes why John Travolta is dressed like a dork.

And finally, VEI, please stop turning the heroes into anti-heroes. Aram sleeps with Archer's girlfriend. Archer has gone from an innocent kid into a surly cynic. Shadowman now has a murderous background. Aric is still a bull-headed buffoon. Gilad is trying to murder Mother Nature. Bloodshot enslaved children, and HardCorps members have killed a few.

Where are the good guys? Okay, now I bummed myself out. Sorry.

[DIrishB]

As far as timeline, If we assume that the whole 2000 years to prepare is a fairly generalized and rounded number, with that I would think this book takes place between 2000 and 2010. So it would take place a few years before A&A #5.

EW #1-4 occur in 2010. Dinesh stated that this first EW arc occurs a couple years before the events of A&A #5-8, which pretty firmly occurs in 2012, based on exact dating of Harbinger Wars occurring in January, 2013, and the mention of events in other titles aligning.

The Valiant titles seem to be somewhat adhering to our real world passage of time. At least a year has passed in the Valiant universe, based on hard dates in Harbinger, Archer & Armstrong, and Shadowman.

[bygranddesign]

I'm not getting the negativity at all in this thread ... I'm not sure where there would be confusion - Gilad and Xaran destroyed a tree that was trapping Nergal in his prison. Obviously we know they didn't actually kill the Earth Goddess.

I'm in agreement that I liked this issue, it cleared up some questions from last month's. It helped that I reread last month's before digging into this one.

I'm a little ambivalent about the overall concept though. The houses are an interesting idea and set in motion a lot of potential conflict to be played with by the writer. But turning Gilad into an a-hole intent on destroying the Earth god? I like my good guys to be, I dunno, good. I'm finding myself rooting against him. There's no one to like in this title.

As for the overall approach to selecting story arcs: Please, dumb it down a little or explain it better. The book is obviously confusing the heck out of readers. In the author's head everything makes sense because he has the big picture. But we don't. This ain't a Quentin Tarantino movie and we won't see in the next 20 minutes why John Travolta is dressed like a dork.

And finally, VEI, please stop turning the heroes into anti-heroes. Aram sleeps with Archer's girlfriend. Archer has gone from an innocent kid into a surly cynic. Shadowman now has a murderous background. Aric is still a bull-headed buffoon. Gilad is trying to murder Mother Nature. Bloodshot enslaved children, and HardCorps members have killed a few.

Where are the good guys? Okay, now I bummed myself out. Sorry.

I disagree with your assessment of Gilad .. And what and why he was doing what he was doing.

He is very much a good guy in this story - honorable - noble.

Remember it was Mother Nature/earth goddess that wanted Gilad to murder little children.

Gilad got fed up with it - he left as the sword of the earth because he didn't want to follow orders that harmed innocents.

He was tired of the "gods" manipulations of the world so it's understandable after thousands of years that he want to destroy the gods and end, what he believes, is their harmful influence.

Obviously he is in the present day the fist and steal of the earth so he has come to reconcile his differences with the Earth Goddess. I would guess he has agreed to fight for her but now more on his terms.

[jmatt]

I disagree with your assessment of Gilad .. And what and why he was doing what he was doing.

He is very much a good guy in this story - honorable - noble.

Remember it was Mother Nature/earth goddess that wanted Gilad to murder little children.

Gilad got fed up with it - he left as the sword of the earth because he didn't want to follow orders that harmed innocents.

He was tired of the "gods" manipulations of the world so it's understandable after thousands of years that he want to destroy the gods and end, what he believes, is their harmful influence.

Obviously he is in the present day the fist and steal of the earth so he has come to reconcile his differences with the Earth Goddess. I would guess he has agreed to fight for her but now more on his terms.

Fair enough. But the motivation needs to be stated more overtly, I suppose.