Quantum & Woody: Goat #0 Discussion

[Keith]

Well, that was just fantastic!

I know many folks on the board aren't so keen on Q&W, and certainly the last arc suffered from various flaws. But this Goat-centric issue really captured the look and feel of the original arc, and told a very entertaining story, as well. That Vincent really has led quite the life! And the reveal at the end... did not see that coming, and I will be curious to see it play out!

Hope everyone gives this a read... it definitely continues the strong Zero issue trend that Valiant has been rocking so far!

[BugsySig]

Well, that was just fantastic!

I know many folks on the board aren't so keen on Q&W, and certainly the last arc suffered from various flaws. But this Goat-centric issue really captured the look and feel of the original arc, and told a very entertaining story, as well. That Vincent really has led quite the life! And the reveal at the end... did not see that coming, and I will be curious to see it play out!

Hope everyone gives this a read... it definitely continues the strong Zero issue trend that Valiant has been rocking so far!

+1

I did find the key scene there a bit confusing. With Dr. P snuggling Dolly and the reveal at the end, there was obviously some mind-swapping. So who exactly was in Derek's body all that time? Dr. P?

[bygranddesign]

Well, that was just fantastic!

I know many folks on the board aren't so keen on Q&W, and certainly the last arc suffered from various flaws. But this Goat-centric issue really captured the look and feel of the original arc, and told a very entertaining story, as well. That Vincent really has led quite the life! And the reveal at the end... did not see that coming, and I will be curious to see it play out!

Hope everyone gives this a read... it definitely continues the strong Zero issue trend that Valiant has been rocking so far!

+1

I did find the key scene there a bit confusing. With Dr. P snuggling Dolly and the reveal at the end, there was obviously some mind-swapping. So who exactly was in Derek's body all that time? Dr. P?

I found this issue pretty confusing.

The same guy that current day Q&W sold the goat to ... Is the same guy that the goat escapes from to find Dolly years before? The goat had all those adventures before it had powers? And then it stumbles upon that convention where all the crazy stuff happens and gets kidnapped by the ERA

I am having a hard time understanding the chronological order of these scenes.

The reveal at the end was really good .. And redeemed the issue for me. And makes me want to reread and make better sense of what is happening.

I think the goats mind went into that scientists head (dr.p)

And perhaps Derek's mind split? He kept his own mind .. But his mind was duplicated/cloned and placed inside the goats head. (Two-boom might have been a clue about that?)

It was a fun issue but found it confusing in spots. Not a lot of LOL moments but the reveal at the end was genuinely surprising and very good.

[Keith]

If I recall correctly (will reread later)... Derek and Dr. P both had on the headgear that allowed them to "interface" with Derek's mysterious energy source that was powering the brain hard drive.

Vincent then ate the headgear off Dr. P when he attacked him. So Vincent and Derek had the head gear on when the explosion occured. I bet the swap occured due to that and the connection to the hard drive.

[Aomalle27]

They don't use the term mind swap. However they do use the exact phrasing of "capturing, replicating, and storing the human mind", I take it to mean some sort of psychic cloning, or mind cloning. I believe the goat has the stored memories of Dr. Henderson up until the point of the explosion. Everything after that, the goat doesn't possess. I found it quite convienient to tie the goat's origins into both Derek and Woody; didn't like that aspect at all. As for the farmer, I didn't take it that the goat originated with the same farmer that Q&W were trying to sell to, although they dress the same, we've grown accustomed to lazy artists on this title (see the tanks, the different depictions of woody, etc) so I pass that off to just a lazy artist not drawing different clothes. Plus they mention "back in the day, Bright, Kansas" why mention that after the initial scene? (Unless the back in the day part was allusion to the opening scene also taking place at the same farm) This title just gets more confusing as it goes along. Thank goodness it's going on hiatus soon. I think it would work better as an add on feature at the back of A&A, in lieu of the promo's for upcoming titles. Maybe three or four pages, and a continuing story instead of trying to pull it's own weight on a monthly. (throwback to the tales of suspense days)

[bygranddesign]

I found it quite convienient to tie the goat's origins into both Derek and Woody; didn't like that aspect at all.

we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

Up to this point, the goat felt like a useless cheap prop and gimmick. I'm not a person who just loved the goat just because it was a goat - it seemed pretty pointless to me. But this has completely turned that around. Now the goat is an integral part of the plot and have a significant connection to Eric and Woody. And I don't think it felt forced. I think it made some sense in that connected the dots on why Derek got on the radar with ERA ... and also why the Goat Killed the ERA people but has NOT harmed Woody and Eric. It might not have been Asmus's intention from the beginning but I think it falls into place nicely and helps things make better sense. Its one of the better things Asmus has done, IMO.

As for the farmer, I didn't take it that the goat originated with the same farmer that Q&W were trying to sell to, although they dress the same, we've grown accustomed to lazy artists on this title (see the tanks, the different depictions of woody, etc) so I pass that off to just a lazy artist not drawing different clothes. Plus they mention "back in the day, Bright, Kansas" why mention that after the initial scene? (Unless the back in the day part was allusion to the opening scene also taking place at the same farm) This title just gets more confusing as it goes along.

Yeah, all those scenes feel muddled to me. Might be just artist laziness like you said. I also don't understand why Dr. P is at the farm to presumably take a goat and then leaves without Vincent? And then Vincent ends up at the convention anyway because of Dolly and meets up with Mr. P again? Something is not adding up there? That scene with Dr. P visiting the farm probably shouldn't have been in there.


Also, another quibble .. The Goat which does NOT have POWERS yet is having adventures across the world? I know this title is over the top but that's just taking it too far.

[MarrowMan]

wow. I was like at the last page.

[spiderland]

Loved this issue. It was certainly confusing at times but the payoff was glorious.

[pixierosa]

They don't use the term mind swap. However they do use the exact phrasing of "capturing, replicating, and storing the human mind", I take it to mean some sort of psychic cloning, or mind cloning. I believe the goat has the stored memories of Dr. Henderson up until the point of the explosion. Everything after that, the goat doesn't possess.

That is how I interpreted it, too.

Overall, it was a good read but did require the reader to pay more attention than a normal Q&W book, mainly because it jumped around a lot without either smooth transitions or an obvious introduction to a different time. Obviously Vincent was always an amazing goat before he had the memories of Henderson and super powers via ERA. I think they wanted to show that he was already extraordinary and heroic before the science accident. While he may have Henderson's memories, he is still his own "person" who makes his own decisions based upon his personality and his experiences (including those of Henderson).

[BugsySig]

They don't use the term mind swap. However they do use the exact phrasing of "capturing, replicating, and storing the human mind", I take it to mean some sort of psychic cloning, or mind cloning. I believe the goat has the stored memories of Dr. Henderson up until the point of the explosion. Everything after that, the goat doesn't possess.

That is how I interpreted it, too.

Overall, it was a good read but did require the reader to pay more attention than a normal Q&W book, mainly because it jumped around a lot without either smooth transitions or an obvious introduction to a different time. Obviously Vincent was always an amazing goat before he had the memories of Henderson and super powers via ERA. I think they wanted to show that he was already extraordinary and heroic before the science accident. While he may have Henderson's memories, he is still his own "person" who makes his own decisions based upon his personality and his experiences (including those of Henderson).

I did too. The line about some animals being special was a lead in to the Goat's abilities. Someone posted an interview with Asmus where he basically says the Goat had superpowers BEFORE his experimentation.

Also, this issue made me desperately want to see a GOAT/POLLO crossover. 2 issues, one by Guillory, one by Fowler. It would be amazing and bring a HUGE audience to the VALIANT books from Chew. Have all the proceeds benefit the prevention of cruelty to animals to add even more sales and PR. Are you listening Warren/Dino? Are you?!?!

[nonplayer]

I liked it I did find it hard to follow the first read but the secind slower and looking and reading eqch line cairfuly I understood it completely. Best line of all times. The early vulture gets the eye! YES!!! Love it.
Valiant prooves that big foot and other alians are real withing the valiant universe. If the story holds true big foot owes Vincent a favor. Good issue wish it was bassed on three billy goats gruff. But what eves

[Blackhawk]

I am glad I wasn't the only one who had to read this issue twice. Loved the Editor note on page 5

[Captain Craig]

So the only real question I have is this: Derek's mind was in two places for 'x' years before he was killed off in Q&W #1? Yes?
I took the machine to have cloned/imprinted/copied Derek's mind into Vincent not swapped cause obviously had that happened then Derek would've been in a Sanatorium for bleeting and trying to eat tin cans the past years.

From the point of the imprint/cloning how has Vincent/Derek developed differently than Human/Derek? Their life took different paths so they are the same & different all at the same time.

What I find intriguing is that at some point perhaps a method could be found to clone a new human body for Derek and transfer his mind out of Vincent. That could have HUGE repercussions on the interaction with Eric & Woody.

While I don't claim to love the issue, cause frankly I found it a chore to read, I do think that the important panels set up some potential key changes and story ideas that could happen.

[SJS4]

I loved this issue. Fowler's art is perfect for this comic, such a shame he isn't the regular artist.

[nonplayer]

I dont believe Dereks mind is in vincent or even a part of it. He is the same dam goat just with powers dont you think if her was Derek he would be bleeting qnd spelling stuff. No goat just got powers from the battery. Now what about his adventure do you think big foot will make an appearance in the valiant universe?

[jmatt]

Great issue, enjoyed it a ton. The big scene was pretty confusing (I'll have to read it again) but I think the take away was easy enough to understand.

So good to see Fowler back on the book.

[kjjohanson]

What I find intriguing is that at some point perhaps a method could be found to clone a new human body for Derek and transfer his mind out of Vincent. That could have HUGE repercussions on the interaction with Eric & Woody.

I guess they could go this route, if they want to do away with the "dead is dead" philosophy and emulate Marvel and DC.

[kjjohanson]

At work today, the guy that sits next to me was randomly cursing at something and blurted out, "oh you son of a motherless goat," and I was all, "yep"

[kjjohanson]

I'm with the others that commented on the ridiculousness of the goat already having had powers before the transfer. One or the other, okay, fine, it's comics, but it's a ridiculous coincidence. And then add on top of that the visit from the scientist at the beginning and it's way over the top. And not in a good way.

[jmatt]

I'm with the others that commented on the ridiculousness of the goat already having had powers before the transfer.

Regardless of what Asmus said in an interview, I don't see any indications of Vincent having used any kind of power prior to being experimented on by the Edison group (sorry, the name eludes me atm).

We see him kick a football, pull a thorn from Bigfoot, get visited by aliens, walk a baby out of a burning house and stand between some thugs and a girl. No powers that I can see.

I think it was a neat moment for the book, showing the adventures of Vincent before his transformation.

[kjjohanson]

I'm with the others that commented on the ridiculousness of the goat already having had powers before the transfer.

Regardless of what Asmus said in an interview, I don't see any indications of Vincent having used any kind of power prior to being experimented on by the Edison group (sorry, the name eludes me atm).

We see him kick a football, pull a thorn from Bigfoot, get visited by aliens, walk a baby out of a burning house and stand between some thugs and a girl. No powers that I can see.

I think it was a neat moment for the book, showing the adventures of Vincent before his transformation.

Well, he's clearly far more intelligent than the average goat, so there's that, even if you don't find "powers" appropriate. In addition to all you mention, he foils a bank robbery (or whatever it is that's going on that you need to speak Spanish to fully understand), and is aware enough to know that he's going to need money to get around in the real world. Clearly not a normal goat.

[kjjohanson]

I think it was a neat moment for the book, showing the adventures of Vincent before his transformation.

I will say that this alone would have been funny. It's just that all of it together is just too much.

[SJS4]

Normally i am not a fan of things that are so ridiculous, but considering the tone of the book i don't mind (in fact i was laughing as i was following Vincent's adventures). If something like this happened in Harbinger or Eternal warrior obviously i would feel differently.

[jmatt]

Well, he's clearly far more intelligent than the average goat, so there's that, even if you don't find "powers" appropriate. In addition to all you mention, he foils a bank robbery (or whatever it is that's going on that you need to speak Spanish to fully understand), and is aware enough to know that he's going to need money to get around in the real world. Clearly not a normal goat.

It's funny that there are like 2 full pages of this book where I have no idea what's going on because it's in Spanish.

[Beware Cyclops]

Well, we can always do what Alejandro suggests.