Thoughts on the Future

[Hasmot]

Brainstorming here, so bear with me.

So I am in the store the other day and I take note of all of the Batman Halloween costumes (it was't hard they are everywhere) and I get to thinking about why Batman seems to be so popular with the mainstream. First. Batman is Batman and can get away with saying "I'm Batman" all day long. Second. He is there from the very early years in Halloween costumes and cartoon shows. I am going to throw all other reasons for his popularity into reason three which really isn't the topic I'm after here.

I just got to thinking how cool it would be seeing all sorts of X-O Manowar and Shadowman along side the costumes, but for that to happen there would have to be all sorts of children's media to go along with it: cartoons, kid comics, and toys. Not sure if this would be a good thing or a bad thing.

I was introduced to Valiant after I gave up on DC and FCBD 2012 came around and was intrigued by the epic awesomeness portrayed in X-O Manowar and what I had in common with A&A (I like drinking and I just so happen to shoot crossbow). I felt like I was late to the game though and wish I would have gotten into Valiant earlier.

So I guess my question is, what are all of your thoughts on Valiant, say, making more merchandise directed more towards the youngsters to get the name out there? Just think of how many people think Batman as god and yet have never read a comic in their life. It's all about nostalgia from back in the day at times.

Just thoughts is all. We'll see what happens after the movies come out.

[comicsyte95]

Batman wasn't made quick. It took allot of factors over many years .i don't think toys are enough to get kids focus on Valiant to the level of batman.They need video games, phone apps ,movies, TV series ,statues,toys etc

I hope to one day see x-o manowar or shadowman being at batman level but it will take time in my opinion

[Hasmot]

Good point. I hear mobile games are the hot thing right now, even more so than portable gaming devices. I don't think time is the biggest factor though. Take a look at Iron Man. Around for a while, but almost unheard of before 2008 in the mainstream (he had his day I know), so maybe the movies and merchandise will do the trick.

I just don't see the Harbinger Wars including the 10- crowd is all. I hope that movie is as gritty as can get, but sometimes plantings are required to grow up and then influence.

I am loving this Valiant Universe so far and just want to see it continue for sure

[Watchtower]

I'm going to start off by saying that marketing Valiant to kids is going to be a lot trickier than it is for Marvel and DC, because it's a lot easier for the likes of the Avengers and the Justice League to be made kid-friendly as opposed to, say, Bloodshot and Harbinger. Not that it can't be done, but you're going to need to tweak a lot of stuff. It's part of why you don't see Image doing the same thing.

The movies are going to be Valiant's biggest push, and it's good to see that they've already made those steps. Hopefully it all works out, but in the meantime there are the other avenues available.

Gaming is a good route, but if they stick to indie mobile schlock they're never going to get noticed. No, they need something on one of the consoles, and they need something that naturally grabs a lot of attention. A fighting game is a simple way to handle that, and it helps that it's fairly easy to keep it rated T.

Western animation is going to be a bit tricky. Marvel is owned by Disney, and Cartoon Network and DC are both owned by Time Warner, which leaves Nickelodeon as Valiant's best option. Unfortunately, the most mature Nick's handled is Avatar, and the creators had to fight corporate tooth and nail to do what they wanted to do. It once again goes back to Valiant being a bit harder to be made kid-friendly, and you've got the added pressure of Satan Viacom on you, but it can still be done.

I specify "western animation" because there is the alternative of going the anime route. Witchblade notably got an anime adaptation a couple years back, and Valiant has the added benefit of being noticeably more Japan-centric than even Marvel and DC. Sure, the Japanese might get a good laugh at Ninjak, but maybe Rai and Toyo Harada can hit some good notes and help Valiant branch off eastward.

[GammaJosh]

All I have to say is that ninjas and spies are perennial favorites of little boys and the word "Ninjak" is insanely catchy and rolls off the tongue perfectly. "Ninjak" should be Valiant's go-to youth property. Yes, I realize he has a sword and kills people, but so did the Ninja Turtles before their youth-audience makeover. Little boys should be dressing up like Ninjak for halloween. All it will take is a great cartoon or game.

[comicsyte95]

Gaming is a good route, but if they stick to indie mobile schlock they're never going to get noticed. No, they need something on one of the consoles, and they need something that naturally grabs a lot of attention. A fighting game is a simple way to handle that, and it helps that it's fairly easy to keep it rated T.

I agree..a game on a major platform console system with a combat fighting based game I believe might draw attention.

[Sven the Returned]

I'm going to start off by saying that marketing Valiant to kids is going to be a lot trickier than it is for Marvel and DC, because it's a lot easier for the likes of the Avengers and the Justice League to be made kid-friendly as opposed to, say, Bloodshot and Harbinger. Not that it can't be done, but you're going to need to tweak a lot of stuff. It's part of why you don't see Image doing the same thing.

The movies are going to be Valiant's biggest push, and it's good to see that they've already made those steps. Hopefully it all works out, but in the meantime there are the other avenues available.

Gaming is a good route, but if they stick to indie mobile schlock they're never going to get noticed. No, they need something on one of the consoles, and they need something that naturally grabs a lot of attention. A fighting game is a simple way to handle that, and it helps that it's fairly easy to keep it rated T.

Western animation is going to be a bit tricky. Marvel is owned by Disney, and Cartoon Network and DC are both owned by Time Warner, which leaves Nickelodeon as Valiant's best option. Unfortunately, the most mature Nick's handled is Avatar, and the creators had to fight corporate tooth and nail to do what they wanted to do. It once again goes back to Valiant being a bit harder to be made kid-friendly, and you've got the added pressure of Satan Viacom on you, but it can still be done.

I specify "western animation" because there is the alternative of going the anime route. Witchblade notably got an anime adaptation a couple years back, and Valiant has the added benefit of being noticeably more Japan-centric than even Marvel and DC. Sure, the Japanese might get a good laugh at Ninjak, but maybe Rai and Toyo Harada can hit some good notes and help Valiant branch off eastward.

Won't Netflix or Amazon try to make their own animated series after a while?

[comicsyte95]

I'm going to start off by saying that marketing Valiant to kids is going to be a lot trickier than it is for Marvel and DC, because it's a lot easier for the likes of the Avengers and the Justice League to be made kid-friendly as opposed to, say, Bloodshot and Harbinger. Not that it can't be done, but you're going to need to tweak a lot of stuff. It's part of why you don't see Image doing the same thing.

The movies are going to be Valiant's biggest push, and it's good to see that they've already made those steps. Hopefully it all works out, but in the meantime there are the other avenues available.

Gaming is a good route, but if they stick to indie mobile schlock they're never going to get noticed. No, they need something on one of the consoles, and they need something that naturally grabs a lot of attention. A fighting game is a simple way to handle that, and it helps that it's fairly easy to keep it rated T.

Western animation is going to be a bit tricky. Marvel is owned by Disney, and Cartoon Network and DC are both owned by Time Warner, which leaves Nickelodeon as Valiant's best option. Unfortunately, the most mature Nick's handled is Avatar, and the creators had to fight corporate tooth and nail to do what they wanted to do. It once again goes back to Valiant being a bit harder to be made kid-friendly, and you've got the added pressure of Satan Viacom on you, but it can still be done.

I specify "western animation" because there is the alternative of going the anime route. Witchblade notably got an anime adaptation a couple years back, and Valiant has the added benefit of being noticeably more Japan-centric than even Marvel and DC. Sure, the Japanese might get a good laugh at Ninjak, but maybe Rai and Toyo Harada can hit some good notes and help Valiant branch off eastward.

Won't Netflix or Amazon try to make their own animated series after a while?

Both would be good ways to make animated series.

[Watchtower]

I'm going to start off by saying that marketing Valiant to kids is going to be a lot trickier than it is for Marvel and DC, because it's a lot easier for the likes of the Avengers and the Justice League to be made kid-friendly as opposed to, say, Bloodshot and Harbinger. Not that it can't be done, but you're going to need to tweak a lot of stuff. It's part of why you don't see Image doing the same thing.

The movies are going to be Valiant's biggest push, and it's good to see that they've already made those steps. Hopefully it all works out, but in the meantime there are the other avenues available.

Gaming is a good route, but if they stick to indie mobile schlock they're never going to get noticed. No, they need something on one of the consoles, and they need something that naturally grabs a lot of attention. A fighting game is a simple way to handle that, and it helps that it's fairly easy to keep it rated T.

Western animation is going to be a bit tricky. Marvel is owned by Disney, and Cartoon Network and DC are both owned by Time Warner, which leaves Nickelodeon as Valiant's best option. Unfortunately, the most mature Nick's handled is Avatar, and the creators had to fight corporate tooth and nail to do what they wanted to do. It once again goes back to Valiant being a bit harder to be made kid-friendly, and you've got the added pressure of Satan Viacom on you, but it can still be done.

I specify "western animation" because there is the alternative of going the anime route. Witchblade notably got an anime adaptation a couple years back, and Valiant has the added benefit of being noticeably more Japan-centric than even Marvel and DC. Sure, the Japanese might get a good laugh at Ninjak, but maybe Rai and Toyo Harada can hit some good notes and help Valiant branch off eastward.

Won't Netflix or Amazon try to make their own animated series after a while?

Since the focus of the thread was primarily on targetting kids, I figured I'd stick to one of the Big 3 cartoon channels, since those are still kicking strong for their respective demographics. And of the three the only really valid option is Nick.

That said, I've heard about Netflix and Amazon's attempts at cartoons, and maybe the tablet-crazed generation of today will actually pick up on it enough for it to be a valid avenue as well.

[omega_override]

The problem with trying to mass merchandize towards children is that, well, Valiant isn't an entirely "kid-friendly" product. Which isn't to say that there aren't ways around that, take a look at Marvel's "Adventures" line for instance it's numerous cartoons on Disney XD

And there has been quite a large resurgance of cartoons intended for children but that are also enjoyed by adults for darker subject matter, so Valiant might be a perfect fit for that

[Sven the Returned]

The problem with trying to mass merchandize towards children is that, well, Valiant isn't an entirely "kid-friendly" product. Which isn't to say that there aren't ways around that, take a look at Marvel's "Adventures" line for instance it's numerous cartoons on Disney XD

And there has been quite a large resurgance of cartoons intended for children but that are also enjoyed by adults for darker subject matter, so Valiant might be a perfect fit for that

Don't they try target Japan and China? Could they finnd a big enough adult fanbase considering how many people live there?

[Ras the future fan]

The problem with trying to mass merchandize towards children is that, well, Valiant isn't an entirely "kid-friendly" product. Which isn't to say that there aren't ways around that, take a look at Marvel's "Adventures" line for instance it's numerous cartoons on Disney XD

And there has been quite a large resurgance of cartoons intended for children but that are also enjoyed by adults for darker subject matter, so Valiant might be a perfect fit for that

Recently in the new TMNT cartoon on Nick, Splinter was stabbed in the back by Shredder and killed. So I think a little toned down Unity cartoon can work, the JLA cartoon had a lot of violence in it too.

[Phantom]

All I have to say is that ninjas and spies are perennial favorites of little boys and the word "Ninjak" is insanely catchy and rolls off the tongue perfectly. "Ninjak" should be Valiant's go-to youth property. Yes, I realize he has a sword and kills people, but so did the Ninja Turtles before their youth-audience makeover. Little boys should be dressing up like Ninjak for halloween. All it will take is a great cartoon or game.

If you could combine Ninjak with a kids game. Like if a youth playing a computer game somehow got the power of an ancient ninja. Then the boy/teenager, could be ninjak. Fighting in the real world the enemies of the game who somehow also have materialized in the real world.

Could work. 12 issue story to start?
I think it would get much acclaim in the industry.

[comicsyte95]

[GammaJosh]

I feel like that is a *SQUEE* thing that actual got made, but I'm not getting the reference...

[comicsyte95]

He was talking about Ninjak vol 2 12 issues(not including 1 review and 1 variant issues)that was released by Acclaim comics.

[GammaJosh]

....I....I mean...that was the actual story?....that was published?

[jeremycoe]

....I....I mean...that was the actual story?....that was published?

written by Kurt Busiek

[ShadowTuga]

To think that Valiant's properties will ever be on the same level as the Big Ones (Bats, Supes, Spidey, TMNT) is, sorry, nothing but wishful thinking.
These characters came out in a time where there was no internet, kids watched the same shows, watched the same movies- because the offer was so limited. I remember going crazy when I discovered that there was an OLD Spiderman movie as a kid. Today, we got ANT *SQUEE* MAN on his own movie. There's too many goodness for kids (the next gen) to be invested in a character as much as we, old dudes. We had nothing, compared to today. Today, they go from this to that in a sec. Most of the kids I know of, at least (and I was a music teacher for first graders not that long ago). Their geekness skills are just not the same.

But...

Making a Big hit among adult comic readers is possible. We have a knack for shared universes and the VEI characters are for the most part, waaaaaaaaaay more interesting than 90% of the Big 2 Superhero companies, imho. There's an audience there. Japanese adult animation (not dirty stuff, just think about those one-shots made for Marvel some years ago- a series of OVAs) can really bring readers, since Anime and Manga walk hand to hand. I truly believe this. E.g. a fan of LW&C would like Bloodshot or Ninjak, I think.
Another venue is making a splash in the movie biz, but I don't believe that this will bring readers. At least in my LCS, the staff there tells me that yeah, there is an up in sales but it's really short-term. MCU Avengers fans ARE NOT the same as comic Avengers fans, and for the most part (the millions that went to see the movies without reading the comics) they could not care less for what's happening in the funny books. My gf loves the MCU, but she will NEVER pick a GotG or an Avengers comic. She just enjoys the movies.
And here's the tricky part: imho (again) the MCU movies work so well because they are extremely well made and LIGHT-HEARTED for the most part. Bloodshot and Harbinger are not, in fact, they are anything but that. A&A might work as a sleeper hit, but people are not anticipating any of these movies, 'cept us.
I was not reading Marvel books, but went to see Avengers asap. Because it was something that as a kid, I only dreamt of. I thought it never gonna happen.
Really different times, I guess. And that's the end of this obvious post.

[jmatt]

....I....I mean...that was the actual story?....that was published?

Yeah. It was sad.

[cray_ws]

Bottom line, it doesn't matter what age bracket they target, the real problem is Batman has had a 40 yr PR blitz by third party companies. Whether its cartoon, toys, clothes, bed sheets or even candy. Valiant simply doesn't have a clue or the amount of financial backing to thrust any of their IPs beyond the niche market they are clinging on to with pride. These movie deal is huge step, but there's been nothing else. I don't see X-O lunchboxes or Ninjak toy swords, I don't see any pop cultural references in music, comedy, or even politics. There are songs, there jokes, even politicians are asked about Batman or/and Spider-man.

I've *SQUEE* about this before and I'll continue to preach it. If Valiant is serious about any growth for their IPs, they need to hire a legitimate PR company that handles big company brands. They need a real PR department, not some editor who's been doing comics for 30's years. They need a marketing machine. Valiant needs to be advertised as THE best IPs on ANY market (not just comic IPs). They need to build rapport and confidence with the public, even with people who have never read a comic in their life. They shouldn't need people to be comic book readers. There are people who never read a single Batman but think he's super cool character.

[Sven the Returned]

Bottom line, it doesn't matter what age bracket they target, the real problem is Batman has had a 40 yr PR blitz by third party companies. Whether its cartoon, toys, clothes, bed sheets or even candy. Valiant simply doesn't have a clue or the amount of financial backing to thrust any of their IPs beyond the niche market they are clinging on to with pride. These movie deal is huge step, but there's been nothing else. I don't see X-O lunchboxes or Ninjak toy swords, I don't see any pop cultural references in music, comedy, or even politics. There are songs, there jokes, even politicians are asked about Batman or/and Spider-man.

I've *SQUEE* about this before and I'll continue to preach it. If Valiant is serious about any growth for their IPs, they need to hire a legitimate PR company that handles big company brands. They need a real PR department, not some editor who's been doing comics for 30's years. They need a marketing machine. Valiant needs to be advertised as THE best IPs on ANY market (not just comic IPs). They need to build rapport and confidence with the public, even with people who have never read a comic in their life. They shouldn't need people to be comic book readers. There are people who never read a single Batman but think he's super cool character.

I imagine that might happen after there is a Bloodshot trailer.

[jxm640]

Bottom line, it doesn't matter what age bracket they target, the real problem is Batman has had a 40 yr PR blitz by third party companies. Whether its cartoon, toys, clothes, bed sheets or even candy. Valiant simply doesn't have a clue or the amount of financial backing to thrust any of their IPs beyond the niche market they are clinging on to with pride. These movie deal is huge step, but there's been nothing else. I don't see X-O lunchboxes or Ninjak toy swords, I don't see any pop cultural references in music, comedy, or even politics. There are songs, there jokes, even politicians are asked about Batman or/and Spider-man.

I've *SQUEE* about this before and I'll continue to preach it. If Valiant is serious about any growth for their IPs, they need to hire a legitimate PR company that handles big company brands. They need a real PR department, not some editor who's been doing comics for 30's years. They need a marketing machine. Valiant needs to be advertised as THE best IPs on ANY market (not just comic IPs). They need to build rapport and confidence with the public, even with people who have never read a comic in their life. They shouldn't need people to be comic book readers. There are people who never read a single Batman but think he's super cool character.

However, with the introduction of the limited edition Bloodshot statue (possibly Rai), they are making tentative steps towards this.

The other question is...who is Valiants mass appeal character. X-O Manowar will be considered too close to Iron Man. Bloodshot is not family friendly. Ninjak could be, but I am not sure that he could become the franchise character.

I reckon that you could thrust Peter Stanchek and Faith (Faith first) as characters who are accessible to all and can garner worldwide appeal. This is especially true considerign the awesome character of Toyo Harada, who is a great villain that people can connect to.

[cray_ws]

However, with the introduction of the limited edition Bloodshot statue (possibly Rai), they are making tentative steps towards this.

The other question is...who is Valiants mass appeal character. X-O Manowar will be considered too close to Iron Man. Bloodshot is not family friendly. Ninjak could be, but I am not sure that he could become the franchise character.

I reckon that you could thrust Peter Stanchek and Faith (Faith first) as characters who are accessible to all and can garner worldwide appeal. This is especially true considerign the awesome character of Toyo Harada, who is a great villain that people can connect to.

A statue is nice...but it doesn't help it's public relations with the mainstream consumers. Bloodshot is a glorified zombie, which is a pretty popular genre right now. While X-O is very close to Iron-Man, they shouldn't be afraid to publicize it and show how much better (cooler) X-O Manawar IP is. It's not just about selling third party merchandise, Valiant needs a PR spokesperson who isn't a comic-book guy, but knows the characters. Someone who can promote and talk about Valiant with pop culture icons in music, comedians (who make superman and batman jokes all the time). Basically we need to get the word out there that Valiant exist and there's a whole line of really appealing IPs.

[jxm640]

A statue is nice...but it doesn't help it's public relations with the mainstream consumers. Bloodshot is a glorified zombie, which is a pretty popular genre right now. While X-O is very close to Iron-Man, they shouldn't be afraid to publicize it and show how much better (cooler) X-O Manawar IP is. It's not just about selling third party merchandise, Valiant needs a PR spokesperson who isn't a comic-book guy, but knows the characters. Someone who can promote and talk about Valiant with pop culture icons in music, comedians (who make superman and batman jokes all the time). Basically we need to get the word out there that Valiant exist and there's a whole line of really appealing IPs.

I agree with what you're saying, but who could do that? Unless Valiant are willing to shell out money to pay tweeters and instagrammers to advertise their stuff (Thinking in baby steps) I am unsure that any icons will advertise the properties.

The reason I was bringing up the characters is that a face character is needed for the brand that feels familiar, yet totally Valiant.

p.s. stupid idea, have a bloodshot flash mob before the movie comes out to help promote it and make it "viral" (hate that word).