So my girl started reading Unity

[magnusr]

No, I'm almost certain there wasn't. I'll double check Magnus 12 though.

I checked. In Magnus 12 there is no reference to Erica. On the contrary, Turok does not have his futuristic bow and does not speak English.

Btw. In Magnus 12 the place is still called the Lost Valley.

Tried to check the timing, with no clear result. Magnus 12, that takes place pretty much in one day in the Lost Land, starts June 15 and Magnus 13 starts July 1. That could mean that time is slower in the Lost Land, but it could also mean that there are 15 days simply not shown in the comics. Dr Noel did manage to build an advanced settlement in short time. Maybe he's just quick or maybe he had more time in the Lost Land.

The two Gilads are from 1992 and 4001 so we've been using the wrong year above.

/Magnus

[magnusr]

Wonder if the late Turok issues, where the Lost Land reappeared, hold more clues?

/Magnus

[ManofTheAtom]

See, when Solar entered the Lost Land Erica had already been there for some time. So, they didn't all enter at the same time.

When Magnus visited the Lost Land prior to Unity, was there any mention of Mothergod or her Rainbow Tower? Any indication of her robots or their presence overall? I cannot recall offhand if there was.

No, I'm almost certain there wasn't. I'll double check Magnus 12 though.

Likewise, if we accept that the Turok Gold Key issues are canonical, like the timeline that magnusr posted indicates, then we must also accept that, one, Erica's tower was not present when Turok and Andar roamed the Lost Land, and, two, that Tuork and Andar entered the Lost Land LONG before she, Magnus, and Solar did, which shows that time does pass there.

If time didn't exist, then all of them, including Turok and Andar, would have entered the Lost Land at the same time. But, clearly, Turok had been there longer than any of them.

Yeah, for sure. So one thing is that time passes much slower there ('sluggish'). That doesn't fully explain how different time periods can access the Lost Land yet still remain simultaneous. Like what is the relation between how time passes in the Lost Land vs. how it passes in the outer timelines, and how is it determined how much time has passed when crossing between?

Good question. Where can we find the answer, if one exists?

[ManofTheAtom]

Wonder if the late Turok issues, where the Lost Land reappeared, hold more clues?

/Magnus

Not that I recall offhand.

We do know from those issues that Erica's tower is still there, but destroyed. The Campaigner took it over, which further indicates that time did pass.

When Geoff arrived thee at the end of Chaos Effect and saw it, the suggestion was that it was intact and Erica was there, but that didn't turn out to be the case.

[ManofTheAtom]

The question is, how much slower does time move in the Lost Land than it does outside it?

Could the answer be in Turok exiting the Lost Land in 1987? How much longer after he entered it is that? A century? How much time had he and Andar been in the Lost Land before it was "destroyed"?

[magnusr]

The question is, how much slower does time move in the Lost Land than it does outside it?

Could the answer be in Turok exiting the Lost Land in 1987? How much longer after he entered it is that? A century? How much time had he and Andar been in the Lost Land before it was "destroyed"?

If I remember correctly, Solar tried to send everyone to their original times, but failed for Turok (as he had been too close to Erica).

/Magnus

[ManofTheAtom]

The question is, how much slower does time move in the Lost Land than it does outside it?

Could the answer be in Turok exiting the Lost Land in 1987? How much longer after he entered it is that? A century? How much time had he and Andar been in the Lost Land before it was "destroyed"?

If I remember correctly, Solar tried to send everyone to their original times, but failed for Turok (as he had been too close to Erica).

/Magnus

Interesting.

[Ryan]

I checked. In Magnus 12 there is no reference to Erica. On the contrary, Turok does not have his futuristic bow and does not speak English.

Btw. In Magnus 12 the place is still called the Lost Valley.

Tried to check the timing, with no clear result. Magnus 12, that takes place pretty much in one day in the Lost Land, starts June 15 and Magnus 13 starts July 1. That could mean that time is slower in the Lost Land, but it could also mean that there are 15 days simply not shown in the comics. Dr Noel did manage to build an advanced settlement in short time. Maybe he's just quick or maybe he had more time in the Lost Land.

The two Gilads are from 1992 and 4001 so we've been using the wrong year above.

/Magnus

Hmmm. If time really moves super slow in the Lost Land, when Magnus re-enters the Lost Land for Unity it's August 5, 4001 for him. Only a month and a half since he went in with Willow in Magnus 12, so not much time should have passed. I guess it could be explained that Erica worked fast in the Lost Land and had only recently given Turok the Tech-bow

[Ryan]

Good question. Where can we find the answer, if one exists?

Maybe a close reading of all the issues involving the Lost Land, but even that might come up short.

One personal theory I have is that since time travel is obviously an accepted fact in VH1, maybe the Lost Land is some sort of side effect that's created by time travel. Since VH1 doesn't create alternate realities every time someone time travels (like in Marvel), maybe the fact that there is a place that's in the middle of the storm where time IS absolute, is what allows for the time travel around the different time periods on the outside that coexist in a somewhat chaotic way.

Idk, I'd have to re-read some of the stuff like Chaos Effect that I haven't read in ages to see if that fits.

[Ryan]

Wonder if the late Turok issues, where the Lost Land reappeared, hold more clues?

/Magnus

Not that I recall offhand.

We do know from those issues that Erica's tower is still there, but destroyed. The Campaigner took it over, which further indicates that time did pass.

When Geoff arrived thee at the end of Chaos Effect and saw it, the suggestion was that it was intact and Erica was there, but that didn't turn out to be the case.

Yes, that was an odd contradiction. It seemed like at the end of CE that the LL was brought back to the state just before Unity. Then when we see it next (I believe) in Turok, everything is as if time in the LL picked up at some time after Unity and the Campaigner had picked up the scraps left behind by Erica.

Not sure if the contradiction was intentional or just because they were flying by the seat of their pants. I did like those Turok issues though. I Can't remember exactly how everything turned out for the LL at the end of VH1.

[Ryan]

The question is, how much slower does time move in the Lost Land than it does outside it?

Could the answer be in Turok exiting the Lost Land in 1987? How much longer after he entered it is that? A century? How much time had he and Andar been in the Lost Land before it was "destroyed"?

If I remember correctly, Solar tried to send everyone to their original times, but failed for Turok (as he had been too close to Erica).

/Magnus

Yes, I think in Unity #1 Solar tried to send everyone back to their appropriate times, IIRC Turok was sent to the modern time because he had gained too much knowledge of technology to go back to his old time. Not sure if that's right.

Either way, when everyone left the LL at the end of Unity it wasn't by the same means that people had been coming and going from the LL in the past, so I don't think it can tell us much about how time was passing there.

[ManofTheAtom]

Good question. Where can we find the answer, if one exists?

Maybe a close reading of all the issues involving the Lost Land, but even that might come up short.

One personal theory I have is that since time travel is obviously an accepted fact in VH1, maybe the Lost Land is some sort of side effect that's created by time travel. Since VH1 doesn't create alternate realities every time someone time travels (like in Marvel), maybe the fact that there is a place that's in the middle of the storm where time IS absolute, is what allows for the time travel around the different time periods on the outside that coexist in a somewhat chaotic way.

Idk, I'd have to re-read some of the stuff like Chaos Effect that I haven't read in ages to see if that fits.

Ivar made it clear that history is fixed. When he finds himself in the past he doesn't concern himself with avoiding stepping on any butterflies because if he does it was always meant to happen and nothing would change.

[ManofTheAtom]

Wonder if the late Turok issues, where the Lost Land reappeared, hold more clues?

/Magnus

Not that I recall offhand.

We do know from those issues that Erica's tower is still there, but destroyed. The Campaigner took it over, which further indicates that time did pass.

When Geoff arrived thee at the end of Chaos Effect and saw it, the suggestion was that it was intact and Erica was there, but that didn't turn out to be the case.

Yes, that was an odd contradiction. It seemed like at the end of CE that the LL was brought back to the state just before Unity. Then when we see it next (I believe) in Turok, everything is as if time in the LL picked up at some time after Unity and the Campaigner had picked up the scraps left behind by Erica.

Not sure if the contradiction was intentional or just because they were flying by the seat of their pants. I did like those Turok issues though. I Can't remember exactly how everything turned out for the LL at the end of VH1.

Indeed.

[ManofTheAtom]

The question is, how much slower does time move in the Lost Land than it does outside it?

Could the answer be in Turok exiting the Lost Land in 1987? How much longer after he entered it is that? A century? How much time had he and Andar been in the Lost Land before it was "destroyed"?

If I remember correctly, Solar tried to send everyone to their original times, but failed for Turok (as he had been too close to Erica).

/Magnus

Yes, I think in Unity #1 Solar tried to send everyone back to their appropriate times, IIRC Turok was sent to the modern time because he had gained too much knowledge of technology to go back to his old time. Not sure if that's right.

That sounds right.

Either way, when everyone left the LL at the end of Unity it wasn't by the same means that people had been coming and going from the LL in the past, so I don't think it can tell us much about how time was passing there.

True.

[jakgrimm]

Time passes at the same rate in the LL as in the world outside it. Kris was about 3 months prego and after 6 months in the LL she had Magnus.

I'm pretty sure that's the only reason why Shooter made Unity last so long. Kind of like how the Harby kids had to be put in suspended animation on the moon because Barry Smith had XO walk from Peru to Massachusetts.

[jakgrimm]

The question is, how much slower does time move in the Lost Land than it does outside it?

Could the answer be in Turok exiting the Lost Land in 1987? How much longer after he entered it is that? A century? How much time had he and Andar been in the Lost Land before it was "destroyed"?

If I remember correctly, Solar tried to send everyone to their original times, but failed for Turok (as he had been too close to Erica).

/Magnus

Yes, I think in Unity #1 Solar tried to send everyone back to their appropriate times, IIRC Turok was sent to the modern time because he had gained too much knowledge of technology to go back to his old time. Not sure if that's right.

That sounds right.

Either way, when everyone left the LL at the end of Unity it wasn't by the same means that people had been coming and going from the LL in the past, so I don't think it can tell us much about how time was passing there.

True.

Shadowman left the LL by the same means he entered it and was gone for just a minute

[Ryan]

Good question. Where can we find the answer, if one exists?

Maybe a close reading of all the issues involving the Lost Land, but even that might come up short.

One personal theory I have is that since time travel is obviously an accepted fact in VH1, maybe the Lost Land is some sort of side effect that's created by time travel. Since VH1 doesn't create alternate realities every time someone time travels (like in Marvel), maybe the fact that there is a place that's in the middle of the storm where time IS absolute, is what allows for the time travel around the different time periods on the outside that coexist in a somewhat chaotic way.

Idk, I'd have to re-read some of the stuff like Chaos Effect that I haven't read in ages to see if that fits.

Ivar made it clear that history is fixed. When he finds himself in the past he doesn't concern himself with avoiding stepping on any butterflies because if he does it was always meant to happen and nothing would change.

For sure.

[Ryan]

Time passes at the same rate in the LL as in the world outside it. Kris was about 3 months prego and after 6 months in the LL she had Magnus.

I'm pretty sure that's the only reason why Shooter made Unity last so long. Kind of like how the Harby kids had to be put in suspended animation on the moon because Barry Smith had XO walk from Peru to Massachusetts.

Totally. What I meant to say was how time passes in the LL relative to how time passes in the 'outer' timelines... for example:

Shadowman left the LL by the same means he entered it and was gone for just a minute

There we go. I knew there were some examples of this, I just forgot where. I always loved that Shadowman came and went from Unity on his own and had a totally different experience than the rest of the heroes. Such a brilliantly done crossover event.

[jakgrimm]

Time passes at the same rate in the LL as in the world outside it. Kris was about 3 months prego and after 6 months in the LL she had Magnus.

I'm pretty sure that's the only reason why Shooter made Unity last so long. Kind of like how the Harby kids had to be put in suspended animation on the moon because Barry Smith had XO walk from Peru to Massachusetts.

Totally. What I meant to say was how time passes in the LL relative to how time passes in the 'outer' timelines... for example:

Shadowman left the LL by the same means he entered it and was gone for just a minute

There we go. I knew there were some examples of this, I just forgot where. I always loved that Shadowman came and went from Unity on his own and had a totally different experience than the rest of the heroes. Such a brilliantly done crossover event.

Really so brilliant. They had one of everything so we can experience it all. The slug gets killed the old fashion way and Magnus gets deposited in the air in 3975 or so. XO thinks of his former glory days and is then transported there for another great story line.

As for the time passing in the LL compared to the real world I think we'll find inconsistent examples. For Shadowman the 6 months could not be 1 minute and have that be the constant across the board. People who come back to the real world and reenter an hour late do not experience years and years of time lag. Noel would have been dead and dust if that was the case

[Ryan]

Really so brilliant. They had one of everything so we can experience it all. The slug gets killed the old fashion way and Magnus gets deposited in the air in 3975 or so. XO thinks of his former glory days and is then transported there for another great story line.

Shooter perfected the crossover event that he'd help invent with Secret Wars. I don't think it's been surpassed, but I also haven't read modern 'event' type comics for many years.

As for the time passing in the LL compared to the real world I think we'll find inconsistent examples. For Shadowman the 6 months could not be 1 minute and have that be the constant across the board. People who come back to the real world and reenter an hour late do not experience years and years of time lag. Noel would have been dead and dust if that was the case

Yeah there's probably way too many inconsistencies to form any sort of coherent fictional science behind it.

[magnusr]

I checked. In Magnus 12 there is no reference to Erica.

I just saw that Magnus 27 pretty much undoes this. Noel, who was trapped in a robot-dinosaur, says he was rescued by scavangers and brought to Mother-God. It does not say how long time it took, just that he was half-dead (from thirst/starvation I assume).

/Magnus

[ManofTheAtom]

I checked. In Magnus 12 there is no reference to Erica.

I just saw that Magnus 27 pretty much undoes this. Noel, who was trapped in a robot-dinosaur, says he was rescued by scavangers and brought to Mother-God. It does not say how long time it took, just that he was half-dead (from thirst/starvation I assume).

/Magnus

Interesting. They must have arrived after the events from #12.

[lorddunlow]

Elfquest existed too. Everything but Magnus and Turok comics? How convenient lol

Maybe when Solar changed the Universe he took them out deliberately, pretty far fetched but

Definitely is stretching it a bit into far fetched land, but I guess the argument could be made when Phil destroyed his world, then traveled back in time altering the universe, his subconscious is what made certain Gold Key comics real, while Dr. Solar his favorite character remained fiction. It would be logical that if Phil (in his original world, supposedly our world but actually VH0) was a huge Dr. Solar fan then he would have been reading Magnus and Turok as well, or at the very least aware of them.

However if this theory was true, when Solar first met Magnus and went to the Lost land he would've been like holy sheet why are these comic book characters actually real now?

That didn't happen so it leads me to think Magnus and Turok didn't exist in VH0 either.

I really like this theory and it's my new headcanon.

Sent from my Pixel Fold using Tapatalk

[ManofTheAtom]

When Faith first arrives at Mothergod's tower, she says that it looks like something Jack Kirby designed despite the fact that it is clearly inspired by the art of Russ Manning.

The only likely conclusion within the internal fictional narrative of the VALIANT Universe is that, unlike the artists of the Doctor Solar comic book, Russ Manning does not exist. Or, at the very least, the Magnus comic book never existed.

I believe that the foreword in the Second Death trade mentions that Faith read the Doctor Solar comic books.

[magnusr]

Russ Manning does not exist. Or, at the very least, the Magnus comic book never existed.

Reminds me. Magnus 0 has a little tribute to Russ Maning on the first page. In the cityscape there is a big billboard sign for Manning Systems. When things exist on a meta-level, usually they don't exist on the comic level.

/Magnus