Best Case Scenario...

[ManofTheAtom]

...creators like Layton, Hall, etc. should be given the chance to wrap up the stories of the VH 1 iterations of X-O Manowar and Shadowman (as detailed in Rai #0) in either mini-series form (like Q2) or graphic novels.

The true death of Shadowman need not be a massive line-wide crossover. It can be contained within the boundaries of a Shadowman-centric series.

Ideally, this should be done sooner rather than later. I do wish VEI had allowed Hall to do that rather than done Q2.

[magnusr]

...creators like Layton, Hall, etc. should be given the chance to wrap up the stories of the VH 1 iterations of X-O Manowar and Shadowman (as detailed in Rai #0) in either mini-series form (like Q2) or graphic novels.

The true death of Shadowman need not be a massive line-wide crossover. It can be contained within the boundaries of a Shadowman-centric series.

Ideally, this should be done sooner rather than later. I do wish VEI had allowed Hall to do that rather than done Q2.

As a fan I love this idea. Business-wise I think it could be good as well. It's the kind of thing that could be noticed.

/Magnus

[ManofTheAtom]

...creators like Layton, Hall, etc. should be given the chance to wrap up the stories of the VH 1 iterations of X-O Manowar and Shadowman (as detailed in Rai #0) in either mini-series form (like Q2) or graphic novels.

The true death of Shadowman need not be a massive line-wide crossover. It can be contained within the boundaries of a Shadowman-centric series.

Ideally, this should be done sooner rather than later. I do wish VEI had allowed Hall to do that rather than done Q2.

As a fan I love this idea. Business-wise I think it could be good as well. It's the kind of thing that could be noticed.

/Magnus

Indeed. Ultimately, what fans of VH 1 want is closure. Something like this can't hurt.

[Ryan]

Indeed. Ultimately, what fans of VH 1 want is closure. Something like this can't hurt.

So from Vh1 Can Never Come Back to what fans of Vh1 want is closure in one day?

Just speak for yourself, don't assume what you want or think is universal. For instance, I disagree strongly with both statements.

[ManofTheAtom]

Indeed. Ultimately, what fans of VH 1 want is closure. Something like this can't hurt.

So from Vh1 Can Never Come Back to what fans of Vh1 want is closure in one day?

Just speak for yourself, don't assume what you want or think is universal. For instance, I disagree strongly with both statements.

It could never come back and pick up from where it left off without ignoring what made it VALIANT, such as Rai #0.

[Ryan]

It could never come back and pick up from where it left off without ignoring what made it VALIANT, such as Rai #0.

There you go, a much better title for your previous thread: IMO, VH1 could never come back and pick up from where it left off without ignoring what made it VALIANT, such as Rai #0

[ManofTheAtom]

It could never come back and pick up from where it left off without ignoring what made it VALIANT, such as Rai #0.

There you go, a much better title for your previous thread: IMO, VH1 could never come back and pick up from where it left off without ignoring what made it VALIANT, such as Rai #0

[jrewing]

Hello,
I have lurked on here for quite a few years. I never felt like I needed to reply cause someone always did reply with what I usually wanted to say. But after scanning the VH-1 can never come back and then this one. I have to say, why? Why can VH-1 not come back? The right writer can and should be able to come up with a way to continue it. Easy fix, something happen that disrupts the events of Rai #0 and we just pick up in the here and now. People age heroes can age, Sting’s middle aged now, the armor slows Aric’s aging. A new guy or gal has become Shadowman cause Jack died in 99. Turok had returned to the Lost Land and comes back today. There are thousands of ways to continue VH-1.

[ManofTheAtom]

Hello,
I have lurked on here for quite a few years. I never felt like I needed to reply cause someone always did reply with what I usually wanted to say. But after scanning the VH-1 can never come back and then this one. I have to say, why? Why can VH-1 not come back? The right writer can and should be able to come up with a way to continue it. Easy fix, something happen that disrupts the events of Rai #0 and we just pick up in the here and now. People age heroes can age, Sting’s middle aged now, the armor slows Aric’s aging. A new guy or gal has become Shadowman cause Jack died in 99. Turok had returned to the Lost Land and comes back today. There are thousands of ways to continue VH-1.

But then it's not VH 1, it's a variation of it that ignores canon just to keep the original characters around.

Had VH 1 continued till today, it is more likely than not that Shooter, Layton, Vanhook, Hall, Perlin, etc. would have introduced new characters to replace those that got lost along the way, like Shadowman and Archer.

Since Shooter wrote Legion of Super-Heroes he might have kept an older Sting, Faith, Kris, and Flamingo around, but he likely would have continued to introduce younger characters.

At this point, though, a reboot makes more sense than a continuation, particularly since the foundation has already been laid out since 2012. Going back doesn't really benefit much.

[Ryan]

Hello,
I have lurked on here for quite a few years. I never felt like I needed to reply cause someone always did reply with what I usually wanted to say. But after scanning the VH-1 can never come back and then this one. I have to say, why? Why can VH-1 not come back? The right writer can and should be able to come up with a way to continue it. Easy fix, something happen that disrupts the events of Rai #0 and we just pick up in the here and now. People age heroes can age, Sting’s middle aged now, the armor slows Aric’s aging. A new guy or gal has become Shadowman cause Jack died in 99. Turok had returned to the Lost Land and comes back today. There are thousands of ways to continue VH-1.

Great first post. You're right, it wouldn't be hard at all.

[jrewing]

Hello,
I have lurked on here for quite a few years. I never felt like I needed to reply cause someone always did reply with what I usually wanted to say. But after scanning the VH-1 can never come back and then this one. I have to say, why? Why can VH-1 not come back? The right writer can and should be able to come up with a way to continue it. Easy fix, something happen that disrupts the events of Rai #0 and we just pick up in the here and now. People age heroes can age, Sting’s middle aged now, the armor slows Aric’s aging. A new guy or gal has become Shadowman cause Jack died in 99. Turok had returned to the Lost Land and comes back today. There are thousands of ways to continue VH-1.

But then it's not VH 1, it's a variation of it that ignores canon just to keep the original characters around.

Had VH 1 continued till today, it is more likely than not that Shooter, Layton, Vanhook, Hall, Perlin, etc. would have introduced new characters to replace those that got lost along the way, like Shadowman and Archer.

Since Shooter wrote Legion of Super-Heroes he might have kept an older Sting, Faith, Kris, and Flamingo around, but he likely would have continued to introduce younger characters.

At this point, though, a reboot makes more sense than a continuation, particularly since the foundation has already been laid out since 2012. Going back doesn't really benefit much.

How is that a variation? It is plainly a continuation. Do you not grow and lose people throughout life? So are you a variation on your twenty something years old self? No, you are continuing your life. We as people move and progress, we grow and age and die and reproduce and life continues. VH-1 was about the real world, I totally believe Shooter would have people die and new heroes replaced others.
With that said, I appreciate having a place to see ideas and people who love Valiant as much as I do, so I am happy to talk about this and listen to others all day long. Have an outstanding day and week!

[jrewing]

Hello,
I have lurked on here for quite a few years. I never felt like I needed to reply cause someone always did reply with what I usually wanted to say. But after scanning the VH-1 can never come back and then this one. I have to say, why? Why can VH-1 not come back? The right writer can and should be able to come up with a way to continue it. Easy fix, something happen that disrupts the events of Rai #0 and we just pick up in the here and now. People age heroes can age, Sting’s middle aged now, the armor slows Aric’s aging. A new guy or gal has become Shadowman cause Jack died in 99. Turok had returned to the Lost Land and comes back today. There are thousands of ways to continue VH-1.

Great first post. You're right, it wouldn't be hard at all.

Thank you! Have a great day

[ManofTheAtom]

Hello,
I have lurked on here for quite a few years. I never felt like I needed to reply cause someone always did reply with what I usually wanted to say. But after scanning the VH-1 can never come back and then this one. I have to say, why? Why can VH-1 not come back? The right writer can and should be able to come up with a way to continue it. Easy fix, something happen that disrupts the events of Rai #0 and we just pick up in the here and now. People age heroes can age, Sting’s middle aged now, the armor slows Aric’s aging. A new guy or gal has become Shadowman cause Jack died in 99. Turok had returned to the Lost Land and comes back today. There are thousands of ways to continue VH-1.

But then it's not VH 1, it's a variation of it that ignores canon just to keep the original characters around.

Had VH 1 continued till today, it is more likely than not that Shooter, Layton, Vanhook, Hall, Perlin, etc. would have introduced new characters to replace those that got lost along the way, like Shadowman and Archer.

Since Shooter wrote Legion of Super-Heroes he might have kept an older Sting, Faith, Kris, and Flamingo around, but he likely would have continued to introduce younger characters.

At this point, though, a reboot makes more sense than a continuation, particularly since the foundation has already been laid out since 2012. Going back doesn't really benefit much.

How is that a variation? It is plainly a continuation. Do you not grow and lose people throughout life? So are you a variation on your twenty something years old self? No, you are continuing your life. We as people move and progress, we grow and age and die and reproduce and life continues. VH-1 was about the real world, I totally believe Shooter would have people die and new heroes replaced others.
With that said, I appreciate having a place to see ideas and people who love Valiant as much as I do, so I am happy to talk about this and listen to others all day long. Have an outstanding day and week!

If something happens that disrupts the events of Rai #0, then it's no longer VH 1 because those events are indisputable.

Rai #0 catalogued the events that took place between Solar's time and Magnus' time. None of them can be disrupted or ignored. Shadowman died in 1999, Archer in 2020, and Bloodshot in 2028. Many of those were cemented in both present-day comics and future-day comics.

To some it was past history, to others it was future history.

Either through planning or sheer luck, Rai #0 event accommodated what became Deathmate. What it didn't have room for was a crossover between X-O Manowar and Iron Man that would result in the creation of an alternate timeline in which Aric gains the X-O Manowar in the past.

If we look at VH 2 as history being rewritten, then the easiest fix would be to rewrite it again so that Aric does not gain the armor in the past, which would set history back on its proper track.

Even then, there is very little to be gained from having VH 1 back now as the original characters would be much older or dead, and entirely new characters would need to take their place. A reboot affords the chance to have both the old characters but younger and new characters too.

I am glad I got a lurker to become an active participant, heh. So, welcome.

[Ryan]

Even then, there is very little to be gained from having VH 1 back now as the original characters would be much older or dead, and entirely new characters would need to take their place. A reboot affords the chance to have both the old characters but younger and new characters too.

EW, Ivar, Aram - Immortals
X-O, Bloodshot - Armor and Blood both slow aging. Armor and Blood could also be passed to another character.
Shadowman - Time travel option, also a lineage character
Geomancer - Lineage character
Rai - Lineage character, takes place in future therefore real-time passage doesn't apply
Harbinger - team book, Pete/Fatih could be mentor characters
Ninjak - could be a mentor, his son/daughter could take over

I would find this much more interesting than yet another reboot where we get the same tired origin stories again, the same Pete vs. Harada, etc. etc. Let's move the story forward finally.

[ManofTheAtom]

Even then, there is very little to be gained from having VH 1 back now as the original characters would be much older or dead, and entirely new characters would need to take their place. A reboot affords the chance to have both the old characters but younger and new characters too.

EW, Ivar, Aram - Immortals
X-O, Bloodshot - Armor and Blood both slow aging. Armor and Blood could also be passed to another character.
Shadowman - Time travel option, also a lineage character
Geomancer - Lineage character
Rai - Lineage character, takes place in future therefore real-time passage doesn't apply
Harbinger - team book, Pete/Fatih could be mentor characters
Ninjak - could be a mentor, his son/daughter could take over

I would find this much more interesting than yet another reboot where we get the same tired origin stories again, the same Pete vs. Harada, etc. etc. Let's move the story forward finally.

They are moving forward, though. Those stories, like Peter vs Harada, was already done. Sure, the conflict continues, but it should.

If VEI lacks anything of importance, is the passage of real time. They should address that a decade has passed since Peter first gathered his resistance.

[Ryan]

Even then, there is very little to be gained from having VH 1 back now as the original characters would be much older or dead, and entirely new characters would need to take their place. A reboot affords the chance to have both the old characters but younger and new characters too.

EW, Ivar, Aram - Immortals
X-O, Bloodshot - Armor and Blood both slow aging. Armor and Blood could also be passed to another character.
Shadowman - Time travel option, also a lineage character
Geomancer - Lineage character
Rai - Lineage character, takes place in future therefore real-time passage doesn't apply
Harbinger - team book, Pete/Fatih could be mentor characters
Ninjak - could be a mentor, his son/daughter could take over

I would find this much more interesting than yet another reboot where we get the same tired origin stories again, the same Pete vs. Harada, etc. etc. Let's move the story forward finally.

They are moving forward, though. Those stories, like Peter vs Harada, was already done. Sure, the conflict continues, but it should.

If VEI lacks anything of importance, is the passage of real time. They should address that a decade has passed since Peter first gathered his resistance.

So you're getting exactly what you want. Support the books, buy them, read them, discuss them, and enjoy. Let the Vh1 fans be.

[magnusr]

If something happens that disrupts the events of Rai #0, then it's no longer VH 1 because those events are indisputable.
Rai #0 catalogued the events that took place between Solar's time and Magnus' time. None of them can be disrupted or ignored.

The sad truth is that Magnus is not coming back, so we can't avoid having the events of 4001 disputed.

Shadowman died in 1999, Archer in 2020, and Bloodshot in 2028.

Still gives us four years of Bloodshot stories.

I am glad I got a lurker to become an active participant, heh. So, welcome.

That's cool. And this morning there are eight live threads. Been a long time since I saw that much activity.

/Magnus

[Ryan]

The sad truth is that Magnus is not coming back, so we can't avoid having the events of 4001 disputed.

Yeah that's why I would propose starting in the 3000s with the beginning of the Rais. It's closer to the Harbinger wars to connect it with the present characters and there would be more than enough stories of the Rais before ever getting close to the 4000s.

That's cool. And this morning there are eight live threads. Been a long time since I saw that much activity.

That was mostly just me digging through the archives a bit Some really fun stuff from the 2004-08 era. It's a shame all the 01-04 archives are gone, I feel like everyone was on top of their game at that point.

[magnusr]

That was mostly just me digging through the archives a bit Some really fun stuff from the 2004-08 era. It's a shame all the 01-04 archives are gone, I feel like everyone was on top of their game at that point.

Good idea, there are lots of threads that are worth revisiting, even with so much lost.

/Magnus

[ManofTheAtom]

If something happens that disrupts the events of Rai #0, then it's no longer VH 1 because those events are indisputable.
Rai #0 catalogued the events that took place between Solar's time and Magnus' time. None of them can be disrupted or ignored.

The sad truth is that Magnus is not coming back, so we can't avoid having the events of 4001 disputed.

Shadowman died in 1999, Archer in 2020, and Bloodshot in 2028.

Still gives us four years of Bloodshot stories.

I am glad I got a lurker to become an active participant, heh. So, welcome.

That's cool. And this morning there are eight live threads. Been a long time since I saw that much activity.

/Magnus

Nice.

6shrr6.jpg

[ManofTheAtom]

Even then, there is very little to be gained from having VH 1 back now as the original characters would be much older or dead, and entirely new characters would need to take their place. A reboot affords the chance to have both the old characters but younger and new characters too.

EW, Ivar, Aram - Immortals
X-O, Bloodshot - Armor and Blood both slow aging. Armor and Blood could also be passed to another character.
Shadowman - Time travel option, also a lineage character
Geomancer - Lineage character
Rai - Lineage character, takes place in future therefore real-time passage doesn't apply
Harbinger - team book, Pete/Fatih could be mentor characters
Ninjak - could be a mentor, his son/daughter could take over

I would find this much more interesting than yet another reboot where we get the same tired origin stories again, the same Pete vs. Harada, etc. etc. Let's move the story forward finally.

They are moving forward, though. Those stories, like Peter vs Harada, was already done. Sure, the conflict continues, but it should.

If VEI lacks anything of importance, is the passage of real time. They should address that a decade has passed since Peter first gathered his resistance.

So you're getting exactly what you want. Support the books, buy them, read them, discuss them, and enjoy. Let the Vh1 fans be.

At this point, VEI has been around longer than VH 1 or VH 2.

[Ryan]

At this point, VEI has been around longer than VH 1 or VH 2.

Exactly. There should be even a lot of fan interest then. *crickets*

After thinking about this, I agree that VEI should be the continuity that Alien continues. It seems like they're using mostly younger creators, so VEI is the Valiant that they would be familiar with anyway.

Leave Vh1 for the hardcore fans who have always loved it. I would hate to see new Vh1 stories by some new creators who just skimmed a few of the comics and read the Wikipedia.

[ManofTheAtom]

At this point, VEI has been around longer than VH 1 or VH 2.

Exactly. There should be even a lot of fan interest then. *crickets*

After thinking about this, I agree that VEI should be the continuity that Alien continues. It seems like they're using mostly younger creators, so VEI is the Valiant that they would be familiar with anyway.

Leave Vh1 for the hardcore fans who have always loved it. I would hate to see new Vh1 stories by some new creators who just skimmed a few of the comics and read the Wikipedia.

Heh.

Well, Alien is just starting out, and VALIANT as a brand is recovering from DMG's mismanagement. Let's give Alien a chance to prove themselves.

[slack]

At this point, VEI has been around longer than VH 1 or VH 2.

Leave Vh1 for the hardcore fans who have always loved it. I would hate to see new Vh1 stories by some new creators who just skimmed a few of the comics and read the Wikipedia.

VH1 isn't exactly a darling of "hardcore" comic fans... it's the darling of around 2500ish VH1 fans (mainly guys in their late 40s/early 50s). If they do 5 variant covers, they might sell more... but only because a lot of those folks will buy multiple copies of the same book because of those covers.

BTW... many of those buyers, will end up hating it and complaining, because it won't be exactly what they think they want. Hard to recapture 30 year old lightning in the same bottle. Plus, VH1 was off the rails stupid when it died... 30 years ago, not enough people wanted to see more, that's why it died... even fewer people want it back now.

I mean, good luck though.

[Ryan]

At this point, VEI has been around longer than VH 1 or VH 2.

Leave Vh1 for the hardcore fans who have always loved it. I would hate to see new Vh1 stories by some new creators who just skimmed a few of the comics and read the Wikipedia.

VH1 isn't exactly a darling of "hardcore" comic fans... it's the darling of around 2500ish VH1 fans (mainly guys in their late 40s/early 50s). If they do 5 variant covers, they might sell more... but only because a lot of those folks will buy multiple copies of the same book because of those covers.

BTW... many of those buyers, will end up hating it and complaining, because it won't be exactly what they think they want. Hard to recapture 30 year old lightning in the same bottle. Plus, VH1 was off the rails stupid when it died... 30 years ago, not enough people wanted to see more, that's why it died... even fewer people want it back now.

I mean, good luck though.

Cool. Yeah I probably worded it poorly. I meant that doing new Vh1 stories by new writers who never read them would be a massive undertaking and not worth the effort.

I would rather the original universe just be left alone at this point rather than merged with VEI or given a half-hearted reboot. The VEI continuity is more current and updated, much smoother to just continue that and build on it.

So question for you then, what would you consider the definitive Valiant to be?