December 2015 Solicitations

[Phoenix8008]

Kudos to Fred Van Lente for ALWAYS knowing how to end his stories.

As I stated in another thread, it's time really for comic books to ditch the ongoing format and to instead be a series of maxi-series (like TV Seasons). Stories with defined endings always end up more coherent and better written than open-ended stories, and VEI can also keep the core creative team intact. Do it, VEI. Us old-timers can change as long as you maximize the advantages of that format.

Pining for an ongoing is just plain old nostalgia.

I'll agree to a point. For me at least, I could see that it is partially nostalgia I guess, but not only nostalgia. A good chunk of it is just how I like my comic books to be - a connected, ongoing universe. I don't read 10 different comics set in 10 different worlds. I want a universe that has connection and continuity. The easiest way to have continuity - is to have a series that continues! One series, starting at #1 and going up to how ever far it can (lets say 75 or 100, just for a bigger milestone than just about anything in comics that isn't Walking Dead has hit lately), is easier to understand and fit in place than 3 or 4 volumes of the same title as maxi-series of 12 or 25 issues each.

I understand that if the writer had only a definite story in mind to tell and no loose ends to continue with, or if it's organically better to switch it over to another title (like from Harbinger to Imperium) then maybe it's best to let the title stop in that case. I understand that forcing a writer to just keep filling stuff in forever isn't the best way for great quality stories to be made. But who says it has to be like that? Eternal filler material is not the only other option! Another writer may well have great ideas of where they could take the characters and plot out another 25 issues of great story if there's not enough there for the original writer to chew on still. If there's nobody with ideas or interest in doing it, then you let it die as before. Unity, for instance, I think could have been improved by just switching away from Kindt at the end of a regular #24 and giving somebody else a shot on the book starting with #25. Sure, they're losing Eternal Warrior after BoD, but that's a perfect time for a team reshuffle to bring in some new characters and give the new writer a chance to start with something fresh.

I'm not vehemently against some maxi-series. But I do prefer longer series and will continue to pine for them. The road Marvel & DC have built with series getting shorter and shorter in order to trot out more and more new #1's seems to me like a self defeating gimmick in the long run. Now comics have a built in half life where each iteration gets shorter and shorter just because 'everybody knows' the masses just want more #1's. Bull. The companies want more #1's because they make more money in the short run.

What happens in the long run? I'd say - just look at the state of DC now: not doing well financially, and their whole connected universe now is on the half-life cycle. From the start of DC (in the 30's-40's) to when they had to do their first 'universal reboot' with Crisis on Infinite Earths (in 1985) is 40-50 years. Then rebooting again in 2011 with the Flashpoint/New 52 reset - that's 26 years since Crisis. Then Convergence this year - only 4 years since the New 52. And now their continuity is so scrambled, they're not even trying to pretend that all the stories are in the same universe/timeline anymore. It's like comic book fanfic. "You wanna write a story about Superman's ship crashing into Bruce Wayne's baby carriage and killing him, but Kal-El being raised by the Wayne's instead? Go ahead! We'll call it 'Super-Bat' and it'll run alongside the other new #1 that month, 'Green-Bat' which is about Bruce Wayne joining the Green Lanterns!" They used to do stuff like this in separate titles like 'What-If?' from Marvel, but now DC just has alternate universes published alongside everything else and just figures the readers will figure out what they want and know what's canon/connected and what's not. That's where I see the trend away from ongoings has taken the industry.

So I guess it is nostalgia by definition - I want/prefer things how they used to be in the comics industry as a whole. But I want it that way because I'd rather have a little bit of filler material between great arcs of story in a long ongoing series, than a convoluted, unconnected, universe of comics that don't make sense with themselves or each other.

[jeremycoe]

...
9 series its ok, and they needed the extra room if they are to do a volume 2 of archer and armstrong.
....

Except it is 8 non-reprint books for December; was November 7 or 8?

I too would like more monthly releases, but all year Dinesh has been saying they were planning on releasing "about 100 comic books" in 2015. If I counted correctly they will finish at 108. 104 if you don't count Legends of the Geomancer. I think they have a plan and know what they are doing. Hopefully increased interest will make it possible for them to further expand their publishing plans.

[leonmallett]

...
What happens in the long run? I'd say - just look at the state of DC now: not doing well financially, and their whole connected universe now is on the half-life cycle. From the start of DC (in the 30's-40's) to when they had to do their first 'universal reboot' with Crisis on Infinite Earths (in 1985) is 40-50 years. Then rebooting again in 2011 with the Flashpoint/New 52 reset - that's 26 years since Crisis. Then Convergence this year - only 4 years since the New 52. And now their continuity is so scrambled, they're not even trying to pretend that all the stories are in the same universe/timeline anymore. ...

Actually worse than that; you missed Zero Hour and Infinite Crisis after CoIE but before Flashpoint, both as continuity resetting exercises.

IMHO, DC spends far too much time trying to fix what they keep mucking up (continuity); that shoukd not be their primary story focus, yet interminably that seems to be the case.

[sonicdan]

XO is their only ongoing right now.

At least until issue #50?

[dornwolf]

Oh, and no XO in December...replaced with Trill #0...set up to align the book with another event in May?

Would May not be either the 50th issue or at the very least the march towards 50

[iggy101us]

XO is their only ongoing right now.

At least until issue #50?

Comedy special finale

[leonmallett]

XO is their only ongoing right now.

At least until issue #50?

Comedy special finale

*SQUEE*, please no...

[krylox]

it's all about the management of intellectual properties for further films down the line. the 12-issue format is made for the movie pitch.

the next big launches are or will be re-imaginations of concepts which haven't work out, yet.
- shadowman
- eternal warrior
- team book (probably to be named secret weapons)

in the comics world, this won't have the same impact like the original launches. bloodshot by lemire is a solid book by well-known creators, but it's not necessarily much talked about. BUT it's very important for the movie pitches. they need top notch material, so i expect well-known creators to be attached to further "big" launches.

their old ips are pretty much done by now. there may be an armorines mini somewhere in the future. a geomancer "maxi-ongoing" is also an option. but really, those won't set the world on fire, nor are they very superheroish.

if they want to grow, they either force the creation of new characters, which is cheaper, but needs a lot more time and is a trial&error thing (in fact with imperium and divinity they have already started to do that) and/or will buy the gk3 back. i think the second option is very much probable. they don't have enough brand name superheroes. they need more. they have the money. this has to be the move for 2016. has to.

it's an interesting and decisive phase for them, from a business perspective. are they really gonna grow into being the third force in the superhero business or ...not?

[BugsySig]

it's all about the management of intellectual properties for further films down the line. the 12-issue format is made for the movie pitch.

the next big launches are or will be re-imaginations of concepts which haven't work out, yet.
- shadowman
- eternal warrior
- team book (probably to be named secret weapons)

in the comics world, this won't have the same impact like the original launches. bloodshot by lemire is a solid book by well-known creators, but it's not necessarily much talked about. BUT it's very important for the movie pitches. they need top notch material, so i expect well-known creators to be attached to further "big" launches.

their old ips are pretty much done by now. there may be an armorines mini somewhere in the future. a geomancer "maxi-ongoing" is also an option. but really, those won't set the world on fire, nor are they very superheroish.

if they want to grow, they either force the creation of new characters, which is cheaper, but needs a lot more time and is a trial&error thing (in fact with imperium and divinity they have already started to do that) and/or will buy the gk3 back. i think the second option is very much probable. they don't have enough brand name superheroes. they need more. they have the money. this has to be the move for 2016. has to.

it's an interesting and decisive phase for them, from a business perspective. are they really gonna grow into being the third force in the superhero business or ...not?

[Brapbrap]

What happens in the long run? I'd say - just look at the state of DC now: not doing well financially, and their whole connected universe now is on the half-life cycle. From the start of DC (in the 30's-40's) to when they had to do their first 'universal reboot' with Crisis on Infinite Earths (in 1985) is 40-50 years. Then rebooting again in 2011 with the Flashpoint/New 52 reset - that's 26 years since Crisis. Then Convergence this year - only 4 years since the New 52. And now their continuity is so scrambled, they're not even trying to pretend that all the stories are in the same universe/timeline anymore. It's like comic book fanfic. "You wanna write a story about Superman's ship crashing into Bruce Wayne's baby carriage and killing him, but Kal-El being raised by the Wayne's instead? Go ahead! We'll call it 'Super-Bat' and it'll run alongside the other new #1 that month, 'Green-Bat' which is about Bruce Wayne joining the Green Lanterns!" They used to do stuff like this in separate titles like 'What-If?' from Marvel, but now DC just has alternate universes published alongside everything else and just figures the readers will figure out what they want and know what's canon/connected and what's not. That's where I see the trend away from ongoings has taken the industry.

there's nothing wrong with stories that don't fit in the canon

canon is honestly awful, Valiant definitely does it well but marvel and DC have never ever done it well throughout their line. All it has lead to is writers having to keep in mind hundreds of awful stories or else make a convoluted mess of retcons. Comics like Prez or Omega Men don't work in the current DC universe and instead of spending two issues setting up the necessary status quo for the story why not just ignore the canon and tell a good story? Do you want to read good stories or do you want to play join the dots?

think of the most well known and well selling DC and Marvel titles: knightfall, year one, TDKR, A.S.S., Sandman, Swamp Thing, Marvels, Born Again, Kraven's Last Hunt

nobody who reads these stories now cares about what else was going on in the universe and a good amount of these famous stories were set completely outside of their contemporary canon, imagine how *SQUEE* it would be if halfway through sandman there was a tie-in to Invasion or if Kraven's Last Hunt was during the clone saga and you had to read that to know why he was called Ben suddenly.

[Captain Craig]

Do you want to read good stories or do you want to play join the dots?

think of the most well known and well selling DC and Marvel titles: knightfall, year one, TDKR, A.S.S., Sandman, Swamp Thing, Marvels, Born Again, Kraven's Last Hunt

The irony to this flippant answer is that for decades, and this will blow some minds, BOTH happened. Maybe not perfectly all the time but it did happen. Lots and lots of good/great stories that connected dots to the past(when need be) or didn't overwrite anything to tell the story they wanted to tell.

Your list of stories are either prequels(Year One,MARVELS,Born Again), standalone at imprint(Sandman, Swamp Thing), long range 'what if'(TDKR) or work perfectly in the existing timeframe of the character(Kraven/Hunt).

There is no reason the same type of varied storytelling formats can't still be used.
This idea that readers are too lazy, that it's too hard to come into a book with a high number is frankly pathetic. Pathetic cause the industry has started to cater to this mentality and frankly it's made for great jumping off points as well. Readers did it for decades, DECADES, joining a title with triple digit numbers and the characters didn't suffer.

[Brapbrap]

those are the stories that spring to mind when i think of great big 2 comic books, the stories that anyone even on the periphery of comics knows about.

the fact that so many are prequels, standalones and what ifs speaks volumes

there are many good writers who can join the dots, al ewing for example is a master of using continuity to tell a great story.

the problem is that many comic book writers aren't, and many great comic book writers get characters with baggage from stupid stories written by idiots like sins past, trouble, house of m, ultimatum (which more or less killed the potential of a whole imprint), e.t.c.

just look at All-New Ultimates. Fiffe is incredibly talented, he is putting out a comic called COPRA that I think could potentially be one of the best of this decade, but when he was given a nonsensical premise in an imprint that had become a tangled, self-contradictory and incomprehensible mess of continuity he ended up making a truly awful comic.

if a writer wants to tell a great story about the justice league in current dc they would have to have Hal Jordan in a weird costume on the run, Superman depowered, Jim Gordon in a big suit as Batman...

so whats wrong with a good writer who ignores these things to give us a timeless justice league story. it's quite hard to tell a timeless story when its mired in the latest events and has to deal with other story arcs that are potentially written by incompetent idiots. some people have a knack for it, but there really aren't very many of them.

20 years down the line nobody is going to care enough to sort through all the connected stories to find out what the deal is Batman being ginger and in a bunny suit, the story would never become a classic if it was stuck in current canon.

[nycjadie]

there's nothing wrong with stories that don't fit in the canon

canon is honestly awful

So agreed, but most people love canon. Really love it. They want 83 earths. And if you want to understand the universe, you kind of need to understand what is happening around it. That's the concept Valiant is selling.

[bygranddesign]

Canon/Continuity is the backbone of the superhero universe

The reason many of us care about characters is because of that history that is built within continuity

The Dark Knight Returns is a hauntingly brilliant story ... but no one would care about it without that rich Batman history built over decades before it.

Valiant should NOT be thinking about stories out of continuity

They need to build up that backbone and history that makes for a rich universe that people can grow up with and love and understand.

I think we are willing to forgive mistakes in continuity or for writers to even improve upon/CHANGE the intention of other writers ... if it makes sense and makes the character better.

But this universe is too young ... these characters still developing ... to start thinking about out of continuity storylines.

How about we find out how Gilad, The Eternal Warrior actually became the sword of the Earth before writers start creating their own out of continuity storylines for him?

I'm fine at some point at writers doing their own thing(out of continuity stories) with these characters ... but right now because the universe so young and characters are still developing ... we are more likely to get something like Dead Drop Part 2 instead of the next The Dark Knight Returns...

[Brapbrap]

there's nothing wrong with stories that don't fit in the canon

canon is honestly awful

So agreed, but most people love canon. Really love it. They want 83 earths. And if you want to understand the universe, you kind of need to understand what is happening around it. That's the concept Valiant is selling.

valiant's canon is very managable, a small number of books every month makes it very easy to understand the whole universe (but even Valiant aren't perfect, Kindt in particular has certainly done his part to confuse canon - Kindt's Gilad is much more prominent than the superior Van Lente interpretation)

i think the concept of a shared universe falls apart a bit when you have 52 comics per month

But this universe is too young ... these characters still developing ... to start thinking about out of continuity storylines. .

yes but we don't need to have lots of long continuous ongoings like some people want, ivar timewalker for example fits seamlessly into continuity but it is also a good read for someone who hasn't read A&A. Divinity is a nice mini that I think could easily be read in 10 years with no knowledge of what was happening in valiant at the time. I would love to see more stuff that is in continuity but is very readable to someone who isn't too familiar with the universe*. I love Book of Death but I have no idea why they pushed it to non fans, it's the exact opposite of what a non-fan would want to read IMO. They don't know who Trill is or who Hwen is or what it means for Gilad to fight Ninjak and Livewire.

*stuff that represents the universe properly tho, please no more dead drop series.

[agent_graves]

Valiant should NOT be thinking about stories out of continuity.

They need to build up that backbone and history that makes for a rich universe that people can grow up with and love and understand.

I think we are willing to forgive mistakes in continuity or for writers to even improve upon/CHANGE the intention of other writers ... if it makes sense and makes the character better.

But this universe is too young ... these characters still developing ... to start thinking about out of continuity storylines.

+1

[Keith]

Canon/Continuity is the backbone of the superhero universe

The reason many of us care about characters is because of that history that is built within continuity

The Dark Knight Returns is a hauntingly brilliant story ... but no one would care about it without that rich Batman history built over decades before it.

Valiant should NOT be thinking about stories out of continuity

They need to build up that backbone and history that makes for a rich universe that people can grow up with and love and understand.

I think we are willing to forgive mistakes in continuity or for writers to even improve upon/CHANGE the intention of other writers ... if it makes sense and makes the character better.

But this universe is too young ... these characters still developing ... to start thinking about out of continuity storylines.

How about we find out how Gilad, The Eternal Warrior actually became the sword of the Earth before writers start creating their own out of continuity storylines for him?

I'm fine at some point at writers doing their own thing(out of continuity stories) with these characters ... but right now because the universe so young and characters are still developing ... we are more likely to get something like Dead Drop Part 2 instead of the next The Dark Knight Returns...

This.

[jmatt]

The other thing to consider is the jumping on point. I see Spawn #238 on the new release shelf and wonder how anyone could start reading and understanding what's going on. And as much as I like SA Marvel, my head swims when I look at Marvel on the shelf and try to devine what's what, which is canon, which is alternate universe, etc. Too lazy to sort it all out and too confused by what I see, I just keep walking.

[geocarr]

The other thing to consider is the jumping on point. I see Spawn #238 on the new release shelf and wonder how anyone could start reading and understanding what's going on. And as much as I like SA Marvel, my head swims when I look at Marvel on the shelf and try to divine what's what, which is canon, which is alternate universe, etc. Too lazy to sort it all out and too confused by what I see, I just keep walking.

Ditto, me too.

[Captain Craig]

The other thing to consider is the jumping on point. I see Spawn #238 on the new release shelf and wonder how anyone could start reading and understanding what's going on. And as much as I like SA Marvel, my head swims when I look at Marvel on the shelf and try to devine what's what, which is canon, which is alternate universe, etc. Too lazy to sort it all out and too confused by what I see, I just keep walking.

Welcome to step 1 - admitting where the problem lies.

[Ras the future fan]

When I first started reading comics in the 90's most Marvel and DC books were already at 200-300, trades and back-issues were a lot harder to get back then, but it didn't deter me from enjoying the books. I did enjoy reading the smaller universes better though like Valiant, Early Image(they did had a universe), 2099, Milestone. It saddens me to see books like Spawn and Savage Dragon have higher numbers than Amazing Spiderman, Action comics.
With VEI the only two books I believe were cancelled because of poor sales were Shadowman and EW, the rest seemed to be planned. I don't have a problem with re-numbering if its justified within the story and not just for a creative change like what the big two is doing.

[nycjadie]

When I first started reading comics in the 90's most Marvel and DC books were already at 200-300, trades and back-issues were a lot harder to get back then, but it didn't deter me from enjoying the books. I did enjoy reading the smaller universes better though like Valiant, Early Image(they did had a universe), 2099, Milestone. It saddens me to see books like Spawn and Savage Dragon have higher numbers than Amazing Spiderman, Action comics.
With VEI the only two books I believe were cancelled because of poor sales were Shadowman and EW, the rest seemed to be planned. I don't have a problem with re-numbering if its justified within the story and not just for a creative change like what the big two is doing.

+1

The McFarlane ASM were my favorite issues. I picked up Uncanny X-Men at about 200, and read until about 300+. Great run.

[nscc]

Initially, after getting back into comics a couple years ago, I wanted to have long ongoings with high numbers. Now I don't really care that much. As long as the quality of the stories is good, it doesn't matter to me if we have titles in the 200's or all one-shots every month

[BugsySig]

I kinda like the maxi series. It provides multiple jumping on points and makes it easy to collect in trade, and especially HC format.

In most cases, I think this is VEI's plan--to end series at 12 or 25--but they will not advertise it as such for various reasons.

However, I do think having a flagship title or two with ongoing numbering is a good idea in that it represents the stability of the company over time. Someone can see a new VEI book and say, "well that'll be over in a year..." Then see it sitting next to XO #150 and think "oh, well even if this series ends its going to be a complete story and not just dropped when the publisher goes under" or "If I like this, I know there's more where that came from (past and future)."

[nscc]

I kinda like the maxi series. It provides multiple jumping on points and makes it easy to collect in trade, and especially HC format.

In most cases, I think this is VEI's plan--to end series at 12 or 25--but they will not advertise it as such for various reasons.

However, I do think having a flagship title or two with ongoing numbering is a good idea in that it represents the stability of the company over time. Someone can see a new VEI book and say, "well that'll be over in a year..." Then see it sitting next to XO #150 and think "oh, well even if this series ends its going to be a complete story and not just dropped when the publisher goes under" or "If I like this, I know there's more where that came from (past and future)."

Good point there.