Book of Death #4 Discussion

[jeremycoe]

I enjoyed this issue, and the series as a whole. I'm looking forward to more Tama in the future, as well as Wrath of the Eternal Warrior.

[Ras the future fan]

I enjoyed this issue, and the series as a whole. I'm looking forward to more Tama in the future, as well as Wrath of the Eternal Warrior.

Who's gonna take care of Tamma now, she is still a kid after all, I think that Livewire would be a good babysitter until EW returns.

[Bl00dsh0t]

I enjoyed this issue, and the series as a whole. I'm looking forward to more Tama in the future, as well as Wrath of the Eternal Warrior.

Who's gonna take care of Tamma now, she is still a kid after all, I think that Livewire would be a good babysitter until EW returns.

Despite Unity #25 making mention of thr team disbanding post BOD, I don't really see any reason for this and like your idea of Livewire watching over Tama. I think this is where we see the evolution of Unity with Punk Mambo only appearing briefly and Tama perhaps joining the team.

[Dallow Spicer1]

I thought this was a disappointing series. My main gripe was the art, Gill was a poor choice for this book. The 'horror' scenes were not at all menacing and the zombie type characters looked like something out of Scooby Doo. I'm not saying Gill is a bad artist, just not suited to this book.

Whilst VEI gets most things right, it amazes me the amount of effort and energy they put into marketing this book along with the quality of the stock only to use a newcomer on the art? Braithwaite should have drawn the 4 issues in their entirety. The pages he drew are stark in contrast to Gill's and reflect Venditti's script more closely IMO.

I was disappointed with Darque's design, the clothes, long fingernails etc are a total cliche. I would have preferred the look of the Acclaim Master Darque which I thought was more subtle but effective.

Was a little puzzled by Punk Mambos appearance, was she really necessary? Also I thoght she was English and middle class but her dialogue made her sound Irish or possibly Scottish?

For me Armor Hunters is still easily the best summer event from VEI, shame BOD didn't come close.

2.5/5

[jmatt]

My main gripe was the art, Gill was a poor choice for this book. The 'horror' scenes were not at all menacing and the zombie type characters looked like something out of Scooby Doo. ....Braithwaite should have drawn the 4 issues in their entirety.

I'm gonna have to agree with that. Judging by the bears in last issue and the deadside spectres in this, it's obvious he's out of his comfort zone when he's not drawing people. Even then, there's something that doesn't work for me with his art. I can't quite put my finger on it.

[Peter]

B.O.D. is better re-read in one sitting as it has felt a bit drawn out read over four months. Issue #4 for me was outstanding, Tama's and Gilad's relationship had grown and their mutual respect and faith in each other paid dividends.

A scene I found very touching was where after vanquishing Darque, whereby she has the power of the Earth flowing through her, Tama returns to a mortally wounded Gilad and becomes that scared little girl again. Gilad reminds her that she did what the Earth wanted her to do, and immediately she taps back in, to tell him that the Earth says that he may rest now. Afterwards she tells the others that Gilad has been released and is in a nicer place, and even later adds David's power to hers.

Tama now has grown incredibly powerful, and here I realise that this whole book has been about Gilad teaching her the responsibility and mental discipline she will need to match that power. Gilad was her protector and teacher.

I don't hide the fact that Gilad has always been my favourite Valiant character, but in my opinion, this story arc is right up there with the best of all Gilad's stories.

I am really looking forward to Gilad's next arc, which hopefully will be one of self examination.

This whole B.O.D. series and spin-offs, (especially Legends of the Geomancer) has been a pure joy to read.

[bygranddesign]

I always likes to think of stuff in the Fall of books as destiny, with the book of Geomancer showing the most logical route to get there.

I also think that Darque is not "The Corrupted One" and a grown up Daniel will teach himself enough magic to become "Corrupted".

I agree that Daniel will end up being "the corrupted one" therefore this bleak future was still not diverted

IMO, this was a vditti head fake

Tama and Gilad assume that Master Darque is the corrupted one ... And therefore as readers we take that as fact. But they are reading from a book that has an unreliable narrator ... why wouldn't the book Explicitidly say that the corrupted one is Master Darque?

Why is Master Darque who normally wears an extravagant super villain costume wearing raggedy robes in the future?

Could the writer (perhaps Tama?) be protecting young Daniel? Because she has feelings for him. Because she still wants to figure out a way to save him?

Obviously Tama does not realize this now.. Because it's her future writings. But as she writes in this "new" book she realizes that the bleak future is still happening and that Daniel who she has feelings for (but let's say they have a falling out). Daniel who gets marked by Master Darque begins a slow corruption to the "dark side" as he starts to enter adulthood.

Future Tama who knows that this book will be sent back in the past - never says Daniel is the corrupted one because she doesn't want Gilad to kill him as a little kid. I would guess that future Tama still has a plan to save Daniel from being corrupted.

Just my guess --- but I think these future events within this book of death have not changed.

But I think Valiant smartly left this open to interpretation where we left guessing a bit ... Which keeps in tact the idea that maybe the future has changed and therefore anything can still happen.

[Sir Sandrick]

I enjoyed the issue, but it could have been so much more. It felt a bit lame that Gilad destroyed a stone rather than killing David. We all know he cares for kids so it would have been character building for him to have killed a kid in order to save everyone. The next series with him could have him dealing with having made that decision. Just seemed a bit cliche to hit the stone or whatever that was.

Also, the battleground seemed a bit weak (a grassy plain in the middle of nowhere?) For the ultimate confrontation between the forces of good and evil, it just seemed a bit meh. I didn't get the sense of danger in Darque and felt that he was just a bit more cartoony than he should be. I think that the big prob with him as a character is that he has no motivation other than he is evil and wants power. Why am I supposed to fear this guy who is living under the ground in Kansas or wherever and has 2 skeleton henchmen and some ghouls? I think that BoD had a good set up but didn't deliver on the last part. The Fall ofs were great though!

[jmatt]

A scene I found very touching was where after vanquishing Darque, whereby she has the power of the Earth flowing through her, Tama returns to a mortally wounded Gilad and becomes that scared little girl again. Gilad reminds her that she did what the Earth wanted her to do, and immediately she taps back in, to tell him that the Earth says that he may rest now. Afterwards she tells the others that Gilad has been released and is in a nicer place, and even later adds David's power to hers.

+1 to all of that. Like you, I intend on a re-read -- it's always better that way.

[jxm640]

I always likes to think of stuff in the Fall of books as destiny, with the book of Geomancer showing the most logical route to get there.

I also think that Darque is not "The Corrupted One" and a grown up Daniel will teach himself enough magic to become "Corrupted".

I agree that Daniel will end up being "the corrupted one" therefore this bleak future was still not diverted

IMO, this was a vditti head fake

Tama and Gilad assume that Master Darque is the corrupted one ... And therefore as readers we take that as fact. But they are reading from a book that has an unreliable narrator ... why wouldn't the book Explicitidly say that the corrupted one is Master Darque?

Why is Master Darque who normally wears an extravagant super villain costume wearing raggedy robes in the future?

Could the writer (perhaps Tama?) be protecting young Daniel? Because she has feelings for him. Because she still wants to figure out a way to save him?

Obviously Tama does not realize this now.. Because it's her future writings. But as she writes in this "new" book she realizes that the bleak future is still happening and that Daniel who she has feelings for (but let's say they have a falling out). Daniel who gets marked by Master Darque begins a slow corruption to the "dark side" as he starts to enter adulthood.

Future Tama who knows that this book will be sent back in the past - never says Daniel is the corrupted one because she doesn't want Gilad to kill him as a little kid. I would guess that future Tama still has a plan to save Daniel from being corrupted.

Just my guess --- but I think these future events within this book of death have not changed.

But I think Valiant smartly left this open to interpretation where we left guessing a bit ... Which keeps in tact the idea that maybe the future has changed and therefore anything can still happen.

[CongoBill]

B.O.D. is better re-read in one sitting as it has felt a bit drawn out read over four months. Issue #4 for me was outstanding, Tama's and Gilad's relationship had grown and their mutual respect and faith in each other paid dividends.

A scene I found very touching was where after vanquishing Darque, whereby she has the power of the Earth flowing through her, Tama returns to a mortally wounded Gilad and becomes that scared little girl again. Gilad reminds her that she did what the Earth wanted her to do, and immediately she taps back in, to tell him that the Earth says that he may rest now. Afterwards she tells the others that Gilad has been released and is in a nicer place, and even later adds David's power to hers.

Tama now has grown incredibly powerful, and here I realise that this whole book has been about Gilad teaching her the responsibility and mental discipline she will need to match that power. Gilad was her protector and teacher.

I don't hide the fact that Gilad has always been my favourite Valiant character, but in my opinion, this story arc is right up there with the best of all Gilad's stories.

I am really looking forward to Gilad's next arc, which hopefully will be one of self examination.

This whole B.O.D. series and spin-offs, (especially Legends of the Geomancer) has been a pure joy to read.

I also enjoyed issue #4. I felt the first three issues were decent but there was a lot of repetition. Unity doesn't believe Gilad, scenes of Darque plotting, Tama and Gilad on the run, etc. But this issue had good payoff. I had no idea how it was going to end (I avoided any and all spoilers) so I thought the big battle was pretty exciting. Gilad was truly heroic and basically sacrificed himself. Darque is destroyed (but probably not gone for good), and Tama matures into a very powerful character who should play a significant role in the VEI universe going forward. I say Well Done!

[cinlach@aol.com]

My main nervousness comes from the apparent contradiction of one of Valiant's core concepts...dead is dead. It's what made the original universe so compelling knowing that truly at any moment and character could die and if that happened they were gone for good.

Killing Gilad only to bring him back in a new ongoing series 30 days later bugs me...but virtually everything the new company has done I've agreed with and enjoyed, so I'm going to assume they know what they're doing.

They know the rules of their universe, and the guy is "Eternal" after all...

He had his arm in a sling for like 6 months, so maybe he truly is immortal and can heal from this injury with enough time. Perhaps the first arc of WOTEW takes place in his head while he's in this healing coma?

[jxm640]

My main nervousness comes from the apparent contradiction of one of Valiant's core concepts...dead is dead. It's what made the original universe so compelling knowing that truly at any moment and character could die and if that happened they were gone for good.

Killing Gilad only to bring him back in a new ongoing series 30 days later bugs me...but virtually everything the new company has done I've agreed with and enjoyed, so I'm going to assume they know what they're doing.

They know the rules of their universe, and the guy is "Eternal" after all...

He had his arm in a sling for like 6 months, so maybe he truly is immortal and can heal from this injury with enough time. Perhaps the first arc of WOTEW takes place in his head while he's in this healing coma?

I am going to throw a crazed theory out there and say that the first arc takes place on the Deadside, with Gilad fighting to eventually escape.

[Phoenix8008]

My main nervousness comes from the apparent contradiction of one of Valiant's core concepts...dead is dead. It's what made the original universe so compelling knowing that truly at any moment and character could die and if that happened they were gone for good.

Killing Gilad only to bring him back in a new ongoing series 30 days later bugs me...but virtually everything the new company has done I've agreed with and enjoyed, so I'm going to assume they know what they're doing.

They know the rules of their universe, and the guy is "Eternal" after all...

He had his arm in a sling for like 6 months, so maybe he truly is immortal and can heal from this injury with enough time. Perhaps the first arc of WOTEW takes place in his head while he's in this healing coma?

I am going to throw a crazed theory out there and say that the first arc takes place on the Deadside, with Gilad fighting to eventually escape.

And we have seen people able to come back from the Deadside before. According to that preview, Gilad has been there many times, he just never stayed long. So in a sense, the "Dead is Dead" thing has been violated by Gilad everytime he died and got back up due to the Geomancers/Earth bringing him back. This time he was ALLOWED to actually die and potentially stay that way. I'm betting the beginning of his next series is where he earns the title he told to Rai in the latest issue... "The one that Hell spit back out".

[jmatt]

I'm betting the beginning of his next series is where he earns the title he told to Rai in the latest issue... "The one that Hell spit back out".

No doubt.

Also consider that the Earth is what makes the Eternal Warrior who he is. His life force is derived from the planet itself. He is, as Yoda might say, a "luminous being -- not this crude matter." Dead is different for him. We saw him die already in AA #0.

[BugsySig]

Gilad by definition breaks the "Dead is Dead" rule, as would Armstrong. Gilad can be brought back to life by the Earth. Thats his thing. Has there been anyone else who's "returned to life" who was "killed"? I wouldn't consider travelling to the Deadside (without dying) and back as coming back to life.

[jeremycoe]

Gilad by definition breaks the "Dead is Dead" rule, as would Armstrong. Gilad can be brought back to life by the Earth. Thats his thing. Has there been anyone else who's "returned to life" who was "killed"? I wouldn't consider travelling to the Deadside (without dying) and back as coming back to life.

I think the only one people might argue is Beta-Max. I wouldn't agree with that argument, but that's just me.

[BugsySig]

Gilad by definition breaks the "Dead is Dead" rule, as would Armstrong. Gilad can be brought back to life by the Earth. Thats his thing. Has there been anyone else who's "returned to life" who was "killed"? I wouldn't consider travelling to the Deadside (without dying) and back as coming back to life.

I think the only one people might argue is Beta-Max. I wouldn't agree with that argument, but that's just me.

Debatable. It was hard to tell how much of him was robotic vs flesh and blood. Personally I try to forget Dead Drop ever happened.

[Dallow Spicer1]

Gilad by definition breaks the "Dead is Dead" rule, as would Armstrong. Gilad can be brought back to life by the Earth. Thats his thing. Has there been anyone else who's "returned to life" who was "killed"? I wouldn't consider travelling to the Deadside (without dying) and back as coming back to life.

I think the only one people might argue is Beta-Max. I wouldn't agree with that argument, but that's just me.

Debatable. It was hard to tell how much of him was robotic vs flesh and blood. Personally I try to forget Dead Drop ever happened.

Beta max death did break that rule and it definitely was NOT worth it!

+1 on the forget Dead Drop happened.

[Brapbrap]

Gilad by definition breaks the "Dead is Dead" rule, as would Armstrong. Gilad can be brought back to life by the Earth. Thats his thing. Has there been anyone else who's "returned to life" who was "killed"? I wouldn't consider travelling to the Deadside (without dying) and back as coming back to life.

In A&A he asks earth if it is time for him to die and earth says no, in Book of Death the earth says yes. There is a big difference between the two deaths.

[BugsySig]

Gilad by definition breaks the "Dead is Dead" rule, as would Armstrong. Gilad can be brought back to life by the Earth. Thats his thing. Has there been anyone else who's "returned to life" who was "killed"? I wouldn't consider travelling to the Deadside (without dying) and back as coming back to life.

In A&A he asks earth if it is time for him to die and earth says no, in Book of Death the earth says yes. There is a big difference between the two deaths.

Maybe she changes her mind.

[Phoenix8008]

Weird theory time!

The ruinous future described in the BoD is not necessarily averted. I'm thinking Venditti is giving us a double head fake by showing the future visions, then making us think that they've been avoided. I think if the bad future described does manifest, the 'Corrupted One' may actually be David, not Darque. Here are my reasons for this theory:
1. All the visions of the Corrupted One in the future show him wearing a red & black outfit just like David was dressed in, not Darques red armor he was wearing.
2. Why do we assume it's Darque? -Pale skin. -Bald. -Glowing magical tattoos on his head. -Described as wielding Necromantic magic and the Geomancer powers. David could achieve all of these. If Tama dies, he might get connection with the Geomancer powers again. He could study magic because he liked messing with it. He already had some of the magic tattoos put on him by Darque and could get them again later during his magic studies. He could shave his head easy. That covers all but the pale skin. Could be some explanation for that via magic too.
3. Darque would be more accurately described as 'The Corrupter' (of the Earth/Geomancer powers), not 'The Corrupted One'. That title would much more accurately fit a future David that got infected with dark magic in his early life.

Thoughts?

[BugsySig]

Weird theory time!

The ruinous future described in the BoD is not necessarily averted. I'm thinking Venditti is giving us a double head fake by showing the future visions, then making us think that they've been avoided. I think if the bad future described does manifest, the 'Corrupted One' may actually be David, not Darque. Here are my reasons for this theory:
1. All the visions of the Corrupted One in the future show him wearing a red & black outfit just like David was dressed in, not Darques red armor he was wearing.
2. Why do we assume it's Darque? -Pale skin. -Bald. -Glowing magical tattoos on his head. -Described as wielding Necromantic magic and the Geomancer powers. David could achieve all of these. If Tama dies, he might get connection with the Geomancer powers again. He could study magic because he liked messing with it. He already had some of the magic tattoos put on him by Darque and could get them again later during his magic studies. He could shave his head easy. That covers all but the pale skin. Could be some explanation for that via magic too.
3. Darque would be more accurately described as 'The Corrupter' (of the Earth/Geomancer powers), not 'The Corrupted One'. That title would much more accurately fit a future David that got infected with dark magic in his early life.

Thoughts?

I had the same thoughts. That's what was good about the series. Flash forwards/future timelines can often box future writers in. By leaving it ambiguous it allows for writers down the line to deliver on that future or not.

Even the Fall of... books, which I do believe are cannon, are ambiguous enough and/or set far enough into the future to not interfere with any future storylines.

[Dallow Spicer1]

Weird theory time!

The ruinous future described in the BoD is not necessarily averted. I'm thinking Venditti is giving us a double head fake by showing the future visions, then making us think that they've been avoided. I think if the bad future described does manifest, the 'Corrupted One' may actually be David, not Darque. Here are my reasons for this theory:
1. All the visions of the Corrupted One in the future show him wearing a red & black outfit just like David was dressed in, not Darques red armor he was wearing.
2. Why do we assume it's Darque? -Pale skin. -Bald. -Glowing magical tattoos on his head. -Described as wielding Necromantic magic and the Geomancer powers. David could achieve all of these. If Tama dies, he might get connection with the Geomancer powers again. He could study magic because he liked messing with it. He already had some of the magic tattoos put on him by Darque and could get them again later during his magic studies. He could shave his head easy. That covers all but the pale skin. Could be some explanation for that via magic too.
3. Darque would be more accurately described as 'The Corrupter' (of the Earth/Geomancer powers), not 'The Corrupted One'. That title would much more accurately fit a future David that got infected with dark magic in his early life.

Thoughts?

I had the same thoughts. That's what was good about the series. Flash forwards/future timelines can often box future writers in. By leaving it ambiguous it allows for writers down the line to deliver on that future or not.

Even the Fall of... books, which I do believe are cannon, are ambiguous enough and/or set far enough into the future to not interfere with any future storylines.

Not sure I agree with the not interfering aspect. Take Trill for example, any future storyline can no longer indicate his death as we 'know' he outlives Aric. We 'know' that no other Harbingers die etc Which, if the Fall Of, books are cannon is problematic and restrictive.

[jmatt]

Weird theory time!

The ruinous future described in the BoD is not necessarily averted. I'm thinking Venditti is giving us a double head fake by showing the future visions, then making us think that they've been avoided. I think if the bad future described does manifest, the 'Corrupted One' may actually be David, not Darque. Here are my reasons for this theory:
1. All the visions of the Corrupted One in the future show him wearing a red & black outfit just like David was dressed in, not Darques red armor he was wearing.
2. Why do we assume it's Darque? -Pale skin. -Bald. -Glowing magical tattoos on his head. -Described as wielding Necromantic magic and the Geomancer powers. David could achieve all of these. If Tama dies, he might get connection with the Geomancer powers again. He could study magic because he liked messing with it. He already had some of the magic tattoos put on him by Darque and could get them again later during his magic studies. He could shave his head easy. That covers all but the pale skin. Could be some explanation for that via magic too.
3. Darque would be more accurately described as 'The Corrupter' (of the Earth/Geomancer powers), not 'The Corrupted One'. That title would much more accurately fit a future David that got infected with dark magic in his early life.

Thoughts?

If all of that is true, Gilad would have known it in 3001 when he sent Tama back. If so, they would have dealt with David as much as they did with Darque.

The "corrupted one" what? The corrupted Geomancer, Darque. But I like the theory.