I might be out on Valiant

[mkb28]

This has been an interesting thread to read and follow the last few days because it is a combination of several threads that have occurred recently. Too many variant issues, a lack of a cohesive universe, and the mini-series and reboots that are occurring are just a few of those themes.

I agree with what others have said and that I just am not excited to own "everything" as I was at the beginning. The variants that I have bought are worth less than I paid for them, so why keep buying them?

I tend to pile up the monthly issues until I get a complete story arc, so why continue to buy the monthly issues and mess with bags and boards? Switching to trades and Deluxe HC's just makes more sense to me right now.

I still believe in VEI and want to read the stories, but my collecting habits have definitely changed. I will continue to support them by buying the trades and HC's and an occasional splurge on a GOLD book.

Long live Valiant and bring back X-O as soon as possible!

Michael
Mkb28

Definitely an interesting thread!

I wonder if one thing that maintains my attitude toward Valiant comics is that I've always avoided variant covers, etc (Did go for the chromium Armour Hunters covers though, 'cos they were cool!): because I've only ever bought comics for the story content within, with no desire to speculate with the comics in the future, any feeling that I have toward the comics is based purely on the story content without anything else to complicate things - to date I've always thought Valiant comics have been more or less damn good!

Lately, as I've been working on my degree, I've not had much time to read Valiant and I end up 'missing' it after a while, so anytime I get a bit of time off to sit and read through a stack of comics and catch up on events I tend to find it enjoyable, which probably helps too. I'm also still happy to read everything Valiant: there's been no series (other than Dead Drop, but I read it anyway ) that's been so disappointing I've completely lost interest in it, so I'm still excited so keep tabs on what's happening in the various corners of the VU.

Everyone here should just enjoy whatever Valiant books they want to read (and skip the ones they don't!) and buy them in whatever format suits them best

Great point on the variants and maybe you should just avoid them altogether. I just looked at the April Previews and Bloodshot Reborn #14 has nine (9) variant covers, including the rip-off B&W Sketch Variant, which is Cover A without the ink. This is marketed as an "All-New Jumping-On Point!" If I am a new reader, how do I wade through this nonsense?

Mkb28

[Nairbe]

I just looked at the April Previews and Bloodshot Reborn #14 has nine (9) variant covers

Someone seriously stop this *SQUEE* insanity.

[Tony_H]

There's a very positive aspect to VEI's embracement of variant cover production: it creates more paid labor for illustrators and colorists!

As a guy who constantly battles an OCD-rooted impulse to "collect 'em all", I understand the frustration with proliferate variants; however, as a guy with many visual artist friends, I believe that the overall (socioeconomic? karmic?) value of a business trend which benefits that particular community of hard-working, much-beloved and perenially-underpaid professionals generally outweighs costs which may result from ephemeral irritations felt by us, the fans .
iViva los incentivos!

[mkb28]

There's a very positive aspect to VEI's embracement of variant cover production: it creates more paid labor for illustrators and colorists!

As a guy who constantly battles an OCD-rooted impulse to "collect 'em all", I understand the frustration with proliferate variants; however, as a guy with many visual artist friends, I believe that the overall (socioeconomic? karmic?) value of a business trend which benefits that particular community of hard-working, much-beloved and perenially-underpaid professionals generally outweighs costs which may result from ephemeral irritations felt by us, the fans .
iViva los incentivos!

As always, Tony. Good point!

[putz]

Just pick the one (or 2) variant with the cover you like.
If they are done by different people, that helps companies know which artists can be hired for a book.

Sure sounds like a good way to select the people to work on issues or new books.
Have Variant covers made by "up and coming guest" artists to see if people like the style.
If it sells, then have them do more work.

If all the covers are by he same person but just diff colors, etc, then just buy the ones you like and forget the rest.

[Sheikhaljabal]

I must be a rare fan as I never even dreamed of collecting variant covers. I take whatever I prefer, if I can choose it and care overwhelmingly more for the interior's art and writing levels.
I'm a fan of the company since it's establishment, I read everything at their competitors' loss and believe it is now better than ever (I do not even miss the Gold Key characters; besides having new originals - such as Divinity or Punk Mambo - as good as any others, they can/should use yet untouched others from the Acclaim years such as Dr Tomorrow and Trinity Angels)
I read about the nine titles' limit which, I think, locks a guaranteed minimum quality level (shall I remind you how many Dead Drops by other companies you were sucked into?)) and subscribe to the general impression that at least four ongoings (one per week) are needed for a subjective appearence of line solidity (publishing wise, it is quite good) and cohesiveness aka maintenance of continuity (it has plenty, not at all intrusive or dispersive as in the big 2). I wish for five, four in the present and Rai/4001. The other four could be limited series/special events.
I also get and appreciate Valiant's respectable humorous tradition: A&A and Q&W are among the best things VEI has published and from the Bad Eggs redux to the new Delinquents they keep at it. But on the action titles such as Unity or B:R anything more than a couple of pin ups or a six page story in a extra sized issue feels like too much.
Long post because of lots of lurking. Last couple of thoughts: the line really needs a All Star super group title with several 90's founding flagship characters plus Livewire as recognizable core members, as well as more classic villians (Dr Silk's WEBNET, the Immortal Enemy or Weaponeer can easily become as important as Master Darque, Harada's Eggbreakers and PRS currently are) in the spotlight.
D.'s answer was duly registered. I wish the company all the best as they make the best comics I currently read.

[nutflush76]

I have been somewhat feeling the fatigue of the recent stories. They are still entertaining, but I find myself caring less and less for some of the books. Imperium and Ninjak seem to be sliding in quality and the new Archer and Armstrong book really seems ridiculous. (to be fair, I have only read the first issue). Oh, and Ivar, Timewalker devolved into a mess. Even Rai, which I loved for the first arc seems to have gone off the rails a little bit.

X-O, Bloodshot Reborn, and Wrath of the Eternal Warrior are probably my current favorites. But there isn't much currently that can compare to Harbinger, (where is Peter Stancheck btw?), early X-O Manowar and the first Bloodshot series. I am still on board for the long haul but I really hope that the books find their way. It seems like the quality has dropped a little since the announcement of the movie deal. I hope that there isn't so much attention being put on the movies that the books become second tier.

[Aomalle27]

Haven't bothered with Faith (just not my cuppa as a character) also didn't bother with A&A ( the artwork looked awful in previews and the writing in those previews just didn't hold a candle to FVL)...I find Ninjak boring, and have dropped EW ( it just goes nowhere)...bloodshot and XO are about all I'm interested in what with Imperium going by the wayside. Now XO too. I'll give 4001 a go, but unless it really wows me I might be dropping VEI too. My pull list is pretty thin as is, and with the uneven releases schedule from Dark Circle, I may tap out of comics altogether. Just not getting that excitement anymore, more often than not my comics pile up a few weeks before I read them. Maybe it's just a general malaise towards the medium. (Although when the Dark Circle books arrive I still jump into them excitedly)...who knows. Hoping 4001 really wows me, cause I really wanna have that vim and vigor towards VEI

[SwiftMann]

On the variant aspect of the topic...

I preorder all my comics through DCBS, so when VEI launched, I got all the "regular" variants of each title. At that point it was only 1 or 2 (maybe 3 in a crazy month) for each title. And the variants were fun themes across titles. I could also track down 1:10s and 1:20s pretty cheaply in the secondary market. But once Unity and Rai came around with all the store exclusive covers and five or so "regular" covers which were just random artists doing covers (any one of which was a generic enough cover), I totally lost interest in VEI's variants.

Now, I just take the A cover because that's what DCBS gives a deal on and very rarely pick up anything else. I am getting the CGC replicas, because, fun. But having 3-6 covers that are just random artists drawing random covers that don't even match the story inside? Meh.

[nonplayer]

In the beginning, 2012 Valiant was new and expected to do big things. Now three years later the fans are kinda bla. From what I'm understanding by the comments it's like alot of hype and shiny covers have dulled some of us it's hard to get behind the next big thing. Some peeps felt ripped off from BoD I'm feeling ripped of due to ongoing titles shutting down. Personally I think people should just suck it up its sorta like a new relationship were through the honeymoon faze things are getting real we will see who is a true fan and who was just along for the ride riding the hype wave. Yes four issue acres follow a set corse and that's getting old. i don't like investing time money loyalty into a title that just ends. I'm not a cheeters I don't need new new new I'm happy with low times or boring times but to end it is a fail. Why not go back to wrighting one story per comic like old Turok Son of stone did new stories each month with a simple following theam that binds all the issues together. I'm sick of the four step path to any given comic story.

[lorddunlow]

In the beginning, 2012 Valiant was new and expected to do big things. Now three years later the fans are kinda bla. From what I'm understanding by the comments it's like alot of hype and shiny covers have dulled some of us it's hard to get behind the next big thing. Some peeps felt ripped off from BoD I'm feeling ripped of due to ongoing titles shutting down. Personally I think people should just suck it up its sorta like a new relationship were through the honeymoon faze things are getting real we will see who is a true fan and who was just along for the ride riding the hype wave. Yes four issue acres follow a set corse and that's getting old. i don't like investing time money loyalty into a title that just ends. I'm not a cheeters I don't need new new new I'm happy with low times or boring times but to end it is a fail. Why not go back to wrighting one story per comic like old Turok Son of stone did new stories each month with a simple following theam that binds all the issues together. I'm sick of the four step path to any given comic story.

This is sorta my problem. Early VEI was new and fun and exciting. World building was taking place. Now, they've settled into a formula. It's too predictable. My big issue with almost every mini that has been written (keep in mind the last I read was BoD), seems like there was more story to be told, but it all got crammed into 4 issues because that's the formula.

[cjv]

I still like enough of what they are putting out to still enjoy them, although some of the books are not my cup of tea (but then again, not everything from original Valiant was my cup of tea).

I didn't like the huge number of variants in the beginning, and I don't like it now. I can understand having it for first issues, or major anniversaries, but I don't like the overkill. Even for the first issues it is reaching overkill status (IMO, anything more than 4 or 5 variants would be too much). I will be honest that part of the fun of collecting (for me) is finding you have an issue that turns out to be worth a lot. Now it seems they only way that happens is if you have one of the extremely limited variants.

I don't like the idea of having "regular" series stop. I would love to see a Valiant issue reach #100, #150, #200, etc. It gives a sense of history to the company. Ending old series and restarting them as new ones just seems to be catering to the "hype" market of having lots of re-launches, number one issues, etc.

I love some of the stuff they are doing with some of the story lines - I just wish they lasted longer. I wish there were longer arcs than 4 issues. I recall from the Claremont X-men, we would see storylines introduced and slowly develop over 6 to 8 issues. I miss those.

Some of the Valiant issues are still my favorite reads. I really like Ninjak, which oddly I never liked in original Valiant. I loved Ivar. I really like Bloodshot (another one that I never liked so much before). XO is great stuff. Imperium is a great read.

Chris

[bygranddesign]

I think part of the frustration is seeing some of our favorite characters and story ideas sidelined for so long.

Character development is halted, some plot points and storylines are put on pause, for the next big event, for the next big idea ... and then that idea and event ends with more questions and hanging storylines and new characters ... and before you can process anything ... the next big series happens and the next big event begins. Meanwhile, left behind in limbo, are about a hundred ideas/characters/stories that we are not sure will ever be revisited ... that never came to any satisfying conclusion.

Am I the only one still worried about the little girl absorbed by Hive who has to share space with the scary mutant monsters?

i'm sympathetic to what Valiant has to do as a publisher ... But I do think its hard to build relationships with characters when story ideas and characters seem to be forgotten. I know eventually they will get to them ... but still ... the waiting can get frustrating.

I also think the world outside your window type feeling that made the original Valiant universe so special and this universe special in the beginning ... is not as prominent as it once was ... I'm not feeling that real world connection as much as I would like..

(I do think the Faith book helps a bit in that respect, btw, and I'm glad its going to be an ongoing series)

[lorddunlow]

I think part of the frustration is seeing some of our favorite characters and story ideas sidelined for so long.

Character development is halted, some plot points and storylines are put on pause, for the next big event, for the next big idea ... and then that idea and event ends with more questions and hanging storylines and new characters ... and before you can process anything ... the next big series happens and the next big event begins. Meanwhile, left behind in limbo, are about a hundred ideas/characters/stories that we are not sure will ever be revisited ... that never came to any satisfying conclusion.

Am I the only one still worried about the little girl absorbed by Hive who has to share space with the scary mutant monsters?

i'm sympathetic to what Valiant has to do as a publisher ... But I do think its hard to build relationships with characters when story ideas and characters seem to be forgotten. I know eventually they will get to them ... but still ... the waiting can get frustrating.

I also think the world outside your window type feeling that made the original Valiant universe so special and this universe special in the beginning ... is not as prominent as it once was ... I'm not feeling that real world connection as much as I would like..

(I do think the Faith book helps a bit in that respect, btw, and I'm glad its going to be an ongoing series)

You nailed my frustration perfectly. The Harbinger kids and the Generation Zero kids just being forgotten after Harbinger Wars (again, this may have changed over the past 9 months or so, but when I fell off on reading that was a big part of it).

[nonplayer]

Faith was ment to be a four issue arc but I'm guessing after it's success and the low #'s of comics coming out regularly it was decided Apon to continue faith. So xo didn't work Imperium didn't work it seams to me Valiant is looking owing for what sells and are grasping at a thing that will. I personally was not very excited for faith #1 so it's not a arc I'm getting and Because of the trend faith is not a ongoing title I'm planning to get.

[ilzuccone]

[Elveen]

Faith is one of the few books they have had that has made a "splash".

It would be silly of them to not make an ongoing for it.

[lorddunlow]

Faith is one of the few books they have had that has made a "splash".

It would be silly of them to not make an ongoing for it.

Agreed. I follow tons of comics and non-comics people on Twitter that never mention Valiant at all. So many have retweeted news or talked about Faith. It's a hit, for sure.

[Elveen]

Faith is one of the few books they have had that has made a "splash".

It would be silly of them to not make an ongoing for it.

Agreed. I follow tons of comics and non-comics people on Twitter that never mention Valiant at all. So many have retweeted news or talked about Faith. It's a hit, for sure.

No doubt. Doing Faith as a continuing was a no brainer.


BTW, There was a GREAT Faith cosplayer at Wondercon. Great.

[Brapbrap]

I'm sorry but you're delusional if you expect a 100 issue run in the current climate.

Even Scott Snyder's Batman, the most successful comic in recent memory, is ending after #52. The few comics that are still making money past issue 100 are long established franchises with tv / movie tie-ins and a long-running creator or creators. Stuff like 2000AD, Walking Dead, Spawn.

You can't just end a run at #50 and continue with the new writer at #51 and expect to make money, it makes a lot of sense to give the new writer a new volume and to give the artists some time to build up a few issues worth of art before launching, which is why we now do relaunches, it also means that the archival reader knows that they only need to read from "Bloodshot Reborn Vol. 1" instead of it seeming like they have to read through 5 volumes (and a couple of those are pretty bad) of Bloodshot to even begin Lemire's story.

Why would you even want a story that never ends? Imagine if Valiant had just brought in someone new to do a sloppy Ivar, Timewalker #13 after the series had clearly reached its end and the creative team had finished it.

[DirtbagSailor]

The most important reality to consider is NOT how many consecutive issues a title runs, but rather the continued character and story development over time. X-O May end at #50; however, the character X-O will NOT end with #50.

When we look back at comicbook history, we often see titles that lasted 400-500 issues but with HUGE periods of creative dead-space spanning portions of the run. There are a number of titles that likely should have ended, but continued due to the marketing/sales strategy employed by the industry at that time.

The world is different today, and there are not 100,000 loyal readers heading to their LCS month after month for a dedicated title. X-O will end at #50; and then re-launch in 18-24 months with a phenomenal reception from new and old fans.

Remember that everyone loves something new, as long as it reminds them of something old. There is much that Valiant needs to still do and only so much focused room to do it.

[Elveen]

The most important reality to consider is NOT how many consecutive issues a title runs, but rather the continued character and story development over time. X-O Man end at #50; however, the character X-O will NOT end with #50.

When we look back at comicbook history, we often see titles that lasted 400-500 issues but with HUGE periods of creative dead-space spanning portions of the run. There are a number of titles that likely should have ended, but continued due to the marketing/sales strategy employed by the industry at that time.

The world is different today, and there are not 100,000 loyal readers heading to their LCS month after month for a dedicated title. X-O will end at #50; and then re-launch in 18-24 months with a phenomenal reception from new and old fans.

Remember that everyone loves something new, as long as it reminds them of something old. There is much that Valiant needs to still do and only so much focused room to do it.

I agree with everything you said except I don't see it 18-24 before there is a new XO ongoing.

[cjv]

I am not disagreeing with that necessarily. I am saying that I miss the sense of history and background that comes with long running, continuously numbered issues.

When I started reading X-men in the late 80's, there were almost 200 issues of background story. Yes, not all of it was good, but it gave a sense of history, of permanence, and of longevity. There was something interesting about the idea that the comic I was reading had that long background associated with it. Yes, there were periods of decreased quality, but even today’s limited runs and limited series have that – you don’t guarantee quality simply by saying we will stop a titles run at some point.

In addition, rather that serving primarily as a method of quality control, I would argue that the continual ending/relaunching is more about marketing and sales boosts. You get a bump with selling a number one issue, so why not stop every comics at least once every few years to get that bump?

I would actually prefer to see series put on hiatus, then picked up at some point where the numbering left off – that would be an interesting combination of both ideas (not forcing issues when creative input has run out, but still maintaining a sense of continuity and history)…plus it would still serve to create a sales bump with the marketing of “the RETURN of comic XYZ”.

I am curious for people who own comic stores – what is the current back issue market like? Do you think the relaunching/renumbering hinders back issue sales? I would hypothesize it does, and that if comics were numbered continuously, there would be more demand for back issues within the run of those comics. Would there be more demand for the 2012 XO Manowar back issues is XO Manowar reached issue number 100? Or would there be more if the current series stopped (as is planned) and then relaunched in 6 months as "Manowar and Friend" (or some other title)? Or has the back issue market pretty much vanished due to TPBs?

Chris

(Sheesh, I sound like an old man..."back in my day, I had to walk uphill both directions to go to my comic store")

[Aram]

I didn't read every single post in this thread, but the overall gist I got was not 'I'm done with Valiant.' The majority of people posting, including myself, think Valiant has lost sight of what made the company great in the first place.

You mean the cool stuff like Deathmate, Punx, Bad Eggs and the X-O bike?

[Keith]

I didn't read every single post in this thread, but the overall gist I got was not 'I'm done with Valiant.' The majority of people posting, including myself, think Valiant has lost sight of what made the company great in the first place.

You mean the cool stuff like Deathmate, Punx, Bad Eggs and the X-O bike?

Don't forget that world changing encounter the H.A.R.D. Corps had with the Spider-Aliens while on a camping trip.