Mark Waid talking Comicsgate.

[TheFerg714]

This thread is worse than the DMG stock thread. I'm gonna just say this one thing, and then I'm done:

[EDIT by Greg]****[EDIT] is an idiot, in the purist sense of the word. This is a personal attack, but sometimes you gotta call a spade a spade.

In the immortal words of Mark Twain: Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience...

Sent from my HTC U Ultra using Tapatalk

[EDIT by Greg]personal attack removed[EDIT]

Toxic as f***.

[Zhuge1]

For anyone interested, Richard C. Meyers from Diversity and Comics was on the Jim Jefferies show this week:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... r8vMIbkPwg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TheFerg714]

For anyone interested, Richard C. Meyers from Diversity and Comics was on the Jim Jefferies show this week:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... r8vMIbkPwg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I saw that. Obvious hatchet job.

However, we got this amazing meme out of it!

[Sven the Returned]

You have 0 basis to say i want a religious right in charge of the culture or the government.

Fine, so what is your point? You seem to be attempting to justify Islamaphobia because of... what? Christianphobia? Spell it out... What is your point?

You did say there are barely any real racists in the U.S.

I really don't think you have been many places.

Why cannot i be afraid of a religion that treats women as chattel and i averse to freedom of speech comapred to the rest of the world this century? Why it cannot be mocked like very other religion?

Compared to the population their numbers are insignificant.

We all have phobias... and most people have no idea what anyone else's phobias are. It's not having phobias that is the problem, it is irrational behavior due to personal fears. The U.S. does not prohibit the free exercise of any religion (or the right not to be religious), so the irrational behavior which falls under Islamaphobia as demonstrations against Islam (violent or peaceful) aren't a reflection of the freedoms of Americans. To say "I am an American, I am religious, and I am opposed to the free exercise of religions other than mine" is not a valid American position. To say "I am an American, I am not religious, and I am opposed to the free exercise of religions" is not a valid American position.

It is not Islamaphobia to say "I don't want Islam dictating the behavior of anyone other than those who freely choose Islam."

It is not Christianphobia to say "I don't want Christianity dictating the behavior of anyone other than those who freely choose Christianity."

It is not anti-religion to say "I don't want religion dictating the behavior of anyone other than those who freely choose religion."

All three views are perfectly fine and American.

What if that religion even in this century treats women as second class citizens?

Do you consider not allowing women to drive an American thing?

Also in Islam we are talking about centuries woth of ingrained cultural conditionning.

[Zhuge1]

For anyone interested, Richard C. Meyers from Diversity and Comics was on the Jim Jefferies show this week:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... r8vMIbkPwg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I saw that. Obvious hatchet job.

However, we got this amazing meme out of it!

I think he knew what he was walking in to when he agreed to do the show. They only showed him for a a couple of minutes at most and he really didn't say very much, so I don't think it was much of a hatchet job to be honest. More of the segment was Jefferies' comedic approach to developing "villains" that both sides would like.

I listened to his retort video last night as well. I don't agree with most of his opinions, but one thing that I've noticed is that he tends to ramble a lot; so if he had a specific viewpoint to convey on the show, I wouldn't be surprised if he struggled to articulate it. In many of his reviews, he rambles off onto tangents and then says a lot of borderline offensive stuff (and Jefferies did bring up one instance of that on the segment).

[Sven the Returned]

For anyone interested, Richard C. Meyers from Diversity and Comics was on the Jim Jefferies show this week:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... r8vMIbkPwg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I saw that. Obvious hatchet job.

However, we got this amazing meme out of it!

I think he knew what he was walking in to when he agreed to do the show. They only showed him for a a couple of minutes at most and he really didn't say very much, so I don't think it was much of a hatchet job to be honest. More of the segment was Jefferies' comedic approach to developing "villains" that both sides would like.

I listened to his retort video last night as well. I don't agree with most of his opinions, but one thing that I've noticed is that he tends to ramble a lot; so if he had a specific viewpoint to convey on the show, I wouldn't be surprised if he struggled to articulate it. In many of his reviews, he rambles off onto tangents and then says a lot of borderline offensive stuff (and Jefferies did bring up one instance of that on the segment).

It's kinda annoying how big a Big 2 loyalist he is.

[greg]

It is not Islamaphobia to say "I don't want Islam dictating the behavior of anyone other than those who freely choose Islam."

What if that religion even in this century treats women as second class citizens?

Do you consider not allowing women to drive an American thing?

Also in Islam we are talking about centuries woth of ingrained cultural conditionning.

Does my statement above not work? Your opinion about how adult women are treated by a religion they are choosing to follow seems like the weakest possible reason to also attempt to pass yourself off as a non-bigoted Islamophobic.

[Sven the Returned]

It is not Islamaphobia to say "I don't want Islam dictating the behavior of anyone other than those who freely choose Islam."

What if that religion even in this century treats women as second class citizens?

Do you consider not allowing women to drive an American thing?

Also in Islam we are talking about centuries woth of ingrained cultural conditionning.

Does my statement above not work? Your opinion about how adult women are treated by a religion they are choosing to follow seems like the weakest possible reason to also attempt to pass yourself off as a non-bigoted Islamophobic.

Not just adult women are mistreated.

Choosing to follow, in a dictatorship, in a culture hostile to women even driving?

[Zhuge1]

It's kinda annoying how big a Big 2 loyalist he is.

If he stopped being loyal to the Big 2, then he probably wouldn't have much to talk on his YouTube channel.

What I've struggled to understand all along is -- why does he (or others) continue to buy a product that they dislike so much? There are lots of other options for entertainment.

Maybe Marvel continues to pump out these stories because they know they can always count on Richard to buy them?

[The Dirt Gang]

Maybe Marvel continues to pump out these stories because they know they can always count on Richard to buy them?

[Chiclo]

What I've struggled to understand all along is -- why does he (or others) continue to buy a product that they dislike so much? There are lots of other options for entertainment.

Bingo. I drop books I don't like. Life is too short to keep reading comics that I am not enjoying.

[possumgrease]

What I've struggled to understand all along is -- why does he (or others) continue to buy a product that they dislike so much? There are lots of other options for entertainment.

Bingo. I drop books I don't like. Life is too short to keep reading comics that I am not enjoying.

Dead Drop! The title is so meta now. I see what the author was trying to do.

[TheFerg714]

I think he knew what he was walking in to when he agreed to do the show. They only showed him for a a couple of minutes at most and he really didn't say very much, so I don't think it was much of a hatchet job to be honest. More of the segment was Jefferies' comedic approach to developing "villains" that both sides would like.

He definitely knew what he was getting into, and it was definitely just an obvious attempt to villainize him, but dude the "interview" was obviously chopped to hell. Why would he say, "oh black Superman isn't okay, but light-brown skinned Superman is okay." I've seen a lot of D&C videos, and I can't imagine him saying something like that in his worst mood.

I listened to his retort video last night as well. I don't agree with most of his opinions, but one thing that I've noticed is that he tends to ramble a lot; so if he had a specific viewpoint to convey on the show, I wouldn't be surprised if he struggled to articulate it. In many of his reviews, he rambles off onto tangents and then says a lot of borderline offensive stuff (and Jefferies did bring up one instance of that on the segment).

He's definitely a rambler, and you could be onto something, but I don't think there's any reason to take the blame away from Jeffries (and his producers). It's gross the way these shows deal with people they disagree with.

It's kinda annoying how big a Big 2 loyalist he is.

Tell me about it. I hate the way he dealt with Valiant. D&C is obviously only into "traditional" superheroes, so it was very frustrating when he tried only Faith and Eternity and gave up on Valiant. I tried to tell him in the comments that he should try X-O, Ninjak, or Bloodshot, but he refused. Kind of d**chey imo.

If he stopped being loyal to the Big 2, then he probably wouldn't have much to talk on his YouTube channel.

Exactly this. People want to see videos about Marvel and DC heroes, with like a couple indies thrown in every once in a while.

What I've struggled to understand all along is -- why does he (or others) continue to buy a product that they dislike so much? There are lots of other options for entertainment.

To review them for YouTube? I mean obviously I can't speak for every YouTuber or critic, but also they could just have an emotional connection to it and want it to be better. I kept buying Ultimate Spider-Man, even after it was just awful.

Does that make me a sadist?


...maybe.

[Sven the Returned]

It's kinda annoying how big a Big 2 loyalist he is.

If he stopped being loyal to the Big 2, then he probably wouldn't have much to talk on his YouTube channel.

What I've struggled to understand all along is -- why does he (or others) continue to buy a product that they dislike so much? There are lots of other options for entertainment.

Maybe Marvel continues to pump out these stories because they know they can always count on Richard to buy them?

He can be more open minded, cover stuff that draws views at the same time.

[Chiclo]

What I've struggled to understand all along is -- why does he (or others) continue to buy a product that they dislike so much? There are lots of other options for entertainment.

Bingo. I drop books I don't like. Life is too short to keep reading comics that I am not enjoying.

Dead Drop! The title is so meta now. I see what the author was trying to do.

Dude.

[Chiclo]

It's kinda annoying how big a Big 2 loyalist he is.

If he stopped being loyal to the Big 2, then he probably wouldn't have much to talk on his YouTube channel.

What I've struggled to understand all along is -- why does he (or others) continue to buy a product that they dislike so much? There are lots of other options for entertainment.

Maybe Marvel continues to pump out these stories because they know they can always count on Richard to buy them?

He can be more open minded, cover stuff that draws views at the same time.

He could be more open minded, yes, but then would this thread get this kind of response? Many of his opponents would argue that his closed-mindedness extends beyond his simple dedication to DC and Marvel.

[Zhuge1]

He's definitely a rambler, and you could be onto something, but I don't think there's any reason to take the blame away from Jefferies (and his producers). It's gross the way these shows deal with people they disagree with.

Well, these aren't news magazine shows. They are comedy shows. Jefferies' goal is to get something he can make fun of and crack a few jokes at. So, I'd disagree that it's gross in anyway -- it's simply the format of the show.

That said, even the "news" shows take this same approach to people they disagree with. For example, Fox News recently mistakenly booked the wrong guest and cut her feed when she began saying things that weren't in line with their viewpoints.

Tell me about it. I hate the way he dealt with Valiant. D&C is obviously only into "traditional" superheroes, so it was very frustrating when he tried only Faith and Eternity and gave up on Valiant. I tried to tell him in the comments that he should try X-O, Ninjak, or Bloodshot, but he refused. Kind of d**chey imo.

Well, I think much like Jim Jefferies -- he's trying to accomplish a specific thing. His argument doesn't work if he starts looking outside of the Big 2. And, even with the Big 2, his argument doesn't work if he looks fully across the whole spectrum of Marvel or DC's output.

I've watched a few of his videos since I first heard about this and tried to have an open mind.

If the extent of his argument was simply "I don't like the fact that Marvel has taken long-established characters and changed their race or gender because they are doing so as nothing more than a marketing ploy that doesn't result in good comics. Instead, I would rather see them establish more diversity and inclusiveness by creating new characters that fit that mold and build great storylines around them." then that would be one thing (and it could be stated with a single video... one time... succinctly). But, that's a reasonably stated (and very succinct) point. Instead, he rambles on about "SJWs", goes off on tangents and throws out personal insults, and says some stuff that's borderline offensive.

At the same time, he could tackle the idea that "Marvel is producing bad comics right now" by reviewing comics from other publishers (such as Valiant, Image, Dark Horse) and contrasting what makes them good versus the Marvel books.

But much like the Jim Jefferies show looks for people that have contrasting viewpoints that they can poke fun of (and "news" shows like Fox and Friends bring on contributors who share their viewpoints to reinforce their suggestions), Meyer is playing to a specific audience and realizes that it's easier to get YouTube views (and profit from them) by rabble-rousing and creating outrage.

[Zhuge1]

What I've struggled to understand all along is -- why does he (or others) continue to buy a product that they dislike so much? There are lots of other options for entertainment.

Bingo. I drop books I don't like. Life is too short to keep reading comics that I am not enjoying.

Dead Drop! The title is so meta now. I see what the author was trying to do.

Nicely done

[The Dirt Gang]

What I've struggled to understand all along is -- why does he (or others) continue to buy a product that they dislike so much? There are lots of other options for entertainment.

Bingo. I drop books I don't like. Life is too short to keep reading comics that I am not enjoying.

Dead Drop! The title is so meta now. I see what the author was trying to do.

Well played!

[Sven the Returned]

It's kinda annoying how big a Big 2 loyalist he is.

If he stopped being loyal to the Big 2, then he probably wouldn't have much to talk on his YouTube channel.

What I've struggled to understand all along is -- why does he (or others) continue to buy a product that they dislike so much? There are lots of other options for entertainment.

Maybe Marvel continues to pump out these stories because they know they can always count on Richard to buy them?

He can be more open minded, cover stuff that draws views at the same time.

He could be more open minded, yes, but then would this thread get this kind of response? Many of his opponents would argue that his closed-mindedness extends beyond his simple dedication to DC and Marvel.

Thread started with a Waid interview.

[The Dirt Gang]

It's kinda annoying how big a Big 2 loyalist he is.

If he stopped being loyal to the Big 2, then he probably wouldn't have much to talk on his YouTube channel.

What I've struggled to understand all along is -- why does he (or others) continue to buy a product that they dislike so much? There are lots of other options for entertainment.

Maybe Marvel continues to pump out these stories because they know they can always count on Richard to buy them?

He can be more open minded, cover stuff that draws views at the same time.

He could be more open minded, yes, but then would this thread get this kind of response? Many of his opponents would argue that his closed-mindedness extends beyond his simple dedication to DC and Marvel.

Thread started with a Waid interview.

This feels like the thread that ate it's own tail.

The Ouroboros has been used to represent self-reflection.



Note: This is not directed at anyone in particular, I just thought of it when the Waid interview was brought up and that's how this all started.

[TheFerg714]

He can be more open minded, cover stuff that draws views at the same time.

Yea, I really think it would do him (and the industry) good if he talked about indies more often. He doesn't have to stop reviewing Marvel and DC books, and it would be stupid to stop reviewing the major books (Batman 50, Man of Steel, etc), but he could easily spend a little time propping up the rest of the industry.
That said, he's admitted that he's a Marvel fan first. Kind of like if I were to make a YouTube channel, of course Valiant would be at the forefront.

Well, these aren't news magazine shows. They are comedy shows. Jefferies' goal is to get something he can make fun of and crack a few jokes at. So, I'd disagree that it's gross in anyway -- it's simply the format of the show.

They're comedy shows masquerading as news show. These shows are obviously trying to be political and comedic at the same time. He wasn't just making fun of D&C, he was essentially calling him a bigot and acting like his opinions were ridiculous. The show didn't portray him as a real person, and it presented "the opposition" as being totally 100% right, without question.

[possumgrease]

He can be more open minded, cover stuff that draws views at the same time.

Yea, I really think it would do him (and the industry) good if he talked about indies more often. He doesn't have to stop reviewing Marvel and DC books, and it would be stupid to stop reviewing the major books (Batman 50, Man of Steel, etc), but he could easily spend a little time propping up the rest of the industry.
That said, he's admitted that he's a Marvel fan first. Kind of like if I were to make a YouTube channel, of course Valiant would be at the forefront.

Well, these aren't news magazine shows. They are comedy shows. Jefferies' goal is to get something he can make fun of and crack a few jokes at. So, I'd disagree that it's gross in anyway -- it's simply the format of the show.

They're comedy shows masquerading as news show. These shows are obviously trying to be political and comedic at the same time. He wasn't just making fun of D&C, he was essentially calling him a bigot and acting like his opinions were ridiculous. The show didn't portray him as a real person, and it presented "the opposition" as being totally 100% right, without question.

I agree. He was calling him a bigot and acting like his opinions were ridiculous.

[Sven the Returned]

He can be more open minded, cover stuff that draws views at the same time.

Yea, I really think it would do him (and the industry) good if he talked about indies more often. He doesn't have to stop reviewing Marvel and DC books, and it would be stupid to stop reviewing the major books (Batman 50, Man of Steel, etc), but he could easily spend a little time propping up the rest of the industry.
That said, he's admitted that he's a Marvel fan first. Kind of like if I were to make a YouTube channel, of course Valiant would be at the forefront.

That is fine but he is acting like an arrogant GSW fan because Marvel's and DC's undeserved domminance.

[Chiclo]

It's kinda annoying how big a Big 2 loyalist he is.

If he stopped being loyal to the Big 2, then he probably wouldn't have much to talk on his YouTube channel.

What I've struggled to understand all along is -- why does he (or others) continue to buy a product that they dislike so much? There are lots of other options for entertainment.

Maybe Marvel continues to pump out these stories because they know they can always count on Richard to buy them?

He can be more open minded, cover stuff that draws views at the same time.

He could be more open minded, yes, but then would this thread get this kind of response? Many of his opponents would argue that his closed-mindedness extends beyond his simple dedication to DC and Marvel.

Thread started with a Waid interview.

And while we are discussing things that don't matter, I like RC better than Pepsi and I like Pepsi better than Coke.