"Joe Illidge, No Longer Executive Editor at Valiant"

The Chosen 1 · Post by **The Chosen 1** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:58:26 am

Ever since the management shakeup, I’ve been keeping positive attitude towards the changes. But, this is the first time I’m starting to dispair over the direction Valiant is going and if it will be around in a years time in its current format.
DMG have really screwed this up.

Chiclo · Post by **Chiclo** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:50:32 am

kinggirlfriend wrote:Wow! Give me an effing break. RIP Joe, lol. I swear to god if this whole thing falls apart before LIFE AND DEATH OF TOYO is published I will angerly post on a message board about my disappointment and frustration.

I will personally hold you to this claim.

nonplayer · Post by **nonplayer** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:52:56 am

nycjadie wrote:What if he just made so much noise about DMG or other folks changing editorial choices? Sometimes folks that make noise get pushed out.

My saying the sqeeky wheel gets replaced. Not always does it get the grease

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:21:23 am

The Chosen 1 wrote:Ever since the management shakeup, I’ve been keeping positive attitude towards the changes. But, this is the first time I’m starting to dispair over the direction Valiant is going and if it will be around in a years time in its current format.
DMG have really screwed this up.

I am an optimistic, cheerful person. But I'm teetering here, too.

TheeBaldMoose · Post by **TheeBaldMoose** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:14:46 am

Has anyone thought of the "why"?

- Four ongoing books canned, many handled/ended poorly, and the public (Us Fans) shouted about it (Q&W, Bloodshot Salvation, Ninja-K, and Shadowman). The ending of these books were a mess, they were wrapped up way before their time, with little to no ceremony.
- HW2 a complete disaster. The build-up took two years, the results were disgusting, leaving the fans feeling dirty and used (much like Bloodshot). Fan enraged regarding the story, not one positive review.
- Monthly books with gaping holes/lack of editing touch. Fans again have and will find the problems in books, and really, there have been a ton of mistakes that should have been found.
- Huge push of unknown authors and artist, some of which have blocked current Valiant fans from their social feeds. Again, fans enraged.
- New Bloodshot story, newest author/artists leave after barely getting the concept off the ground, first book a complete disaster! Fans feel used, not happy
- Next big event that would be their first as a DMG group, fumbled and utterly destroyed. Supposed to be about Shadowman, changed to be about the Geomancer and Eternal Warrior. Fans confused, not happy, but not too upset (we've been wanting EW back in the fold)
- Attempt to bring in a few villains, brings back a character that no one wanted, resulting in luke-warm reception.
- Attempts to bring back Faith/Dr Mirage, to a complete disaster. Fans prove while they generally love Faith, her being in her own book just doesn't float anymore. Numbers are quite possibly the worst numbers seen in a Valiant Mini as of late.

I don't know if you can attribute all these facts to the EIC, but I would think that the EIC is the focal point for the direction of all of the books. From the outside looking in, it looks like a complete *SQUEE* show, I can only imagine what the inside must have been like.

I think it has dawned on DMG that the direction he was taking just wasn't working and more importantly, wasn't being well received. He was pushing his agenda real hard, it doesn't surprise me that it ended quickly

kinggirlfriend · Post by **kinggirlfriend** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:23:56 am

Chiclo wrote:
kinggirlfriend wrote:Wow! Give me an effing break. RIP Joe, lol. I swear to god if this whole thing falls apart before LIFE AND DEATH OF TOYO is published I will angerly post on a message board about my disappointment and frustration.
I will personally hold you to this claim.

LOL

*sigh*

nycjadie · Post by **nycjadie** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:43:46 pm

The analogy that instantly popped into my head yesterday was the coach that's canned on a poor sports team.

BugsySig · Post by **BugsySig** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:07:24 pm

lorddunlow wrote:Feeling like I made the right decision when I told my LCS as I wasn't gonna get any Valiant anymore. It hurt, but I haven't been interested in a while. They dumped all the creatives I liked and I just figured I'd cut bait. All in for 6+ years has to count for something, yeah? I felt like I was supporting something good before. Now, I just feel like I'm helping a crook make money with the DMG debacle.

Sent from my HTC U Ultra using Tapatalk

Ditto

BugsySig · Post by **BugsySig** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:13:51 pm

TheeBaldMoose wrote:Has anyone thought of the "why"?

- Four ongoing books canned, many handled/ended poorly, and the public (Us Fans) shouted about it (Q&W, Bloodshot Salvation, Ninja-K, and Shadowman). The ending of these books were a mess, they were wrapped up way before their time, with little to no ceremony.
- HW2 a complete disaster. The build-up took two years, the results were disgusting, leaving the fans feeling dirty and used (much like Bloodshot). Fan enraged regarding the story, not one positive review.
- Monthly books with gaping holes/lack of editing touch. Fans again have and will find the problems in books, and really, there have been a ton of mistakes that should have been found.
- Huge push of unknown authors and artist, some of which have blocked current Valiant fans from their social feeds. Again, fans enraged.
- New Bloodshot story, newest author/artists leave after barely getting the concept off the ground, first book a complete disaster! Fans feel used, not happy
- Next big event that would be their first as a DMG group, fumbled and utterly destroyed. Supposed to be about Shadowman, changed to be about the Geomancer and Eternal Warrior. Fans confused, not happy, but not too upset (we've been wanting EW back in the fold)
- Attempt to bring in a few villains, brings back a character that no one wanted, resulting in luke-warm reception.
- Attempts to bring back Faith/Dr Mirage, to a complete disaster. Fans prove while they generally love Faith, her being in her own book just doesn't float anymore. Numbers are quite possibly the worst numbers seen in a Valiant Mini as of late.

I don't know if you can attribute all these facts to the EIC, but I would think that the EIC is the focal point for the direction of all of the books. From the outside looking in, it looks like a complete *SQUEE* show, I can only imagine what the inside must have been like.

I think it has dawned on DMG that the direction he was taking just wasn't working and more importantly, wasn't being well received. He was pushing his agenda real hard, it doesn't surprise me that it ended quickly

You’re not wrong. He may well have been fired for poor performance (though in comics it’s hard to tell when things may become profitable or not...some of the titles you mention are yet to launch or just started). But it’s worrying that a) DMG will be onto a whole new editorial staff for a second time in less than a year (which likely won’t improve the issues you’ve mentioned) and b) they don’t even have a replacement lined up...no word who is taking over “executive editor” duties...no transitioning from one team to the next...that spells disaster editorially, and ultimately maybe for deadlines, publication, shipping, and sales. Ouf.

kinggirlfriend · Post by **kinggirlfriend** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:35:12 pm

TheeBaldMoose wrote:- Attempts to bring back Faith/Dr Mirage, to a complete disaster. Fans prove while they generally love Faith, her being in her own book just doesn't float anymore. Numbers are quite possibly the worst numbers seen in a Valiant Mini as of late.

While the numbers might not be there the quality certainly is. This book is great and every Valiant fan should be reading it. And I'm not even big on Faith like that (no pun intended).

Dallow Spicer1 · Post by **Dallow Spicer1** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:59:34 pm

This is good news as far as I’m concerned. There was absolute zero energy and enthusiasm towards the books from Illidge on Twitter, Rising Spirit was poor (3 writers, numerous artists, poorly edited) and nothing in the pipeline is particularly exciting.

The new person needs to inject some Dinesh style energy and gets the fans pumped again for these books AND bring in creators we’ve heard of and have confidence in.

TheeBaldMoose · Post by **TheeBaldMoose** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:02:59 pm

kinggirlfriend wrote:
TheeBaldMoose wrote:- Attempts to bring back Faith/Dr Mirage, to a complete disaster. Fans prove while they generally love Faith, her being in her own book just doesn't float anymore. Numbers are quite possibly the worst numbers seen in a Valiant Mini as of late.
While the numbers might not be there the quality certainly is. This book is great and every Valiant fan should be reading it. And I'm not even big on Faith like that (no pun intended).

Oh, I am a big Faith fan, and I've purchased the entire run so far. I do agree that its a solid book, but I don't think that's enough, the numbers just don't lie. These numbers hurt just to look at.

SuperMage · Post by **SuperMage** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:11:33 pm

I think Dan Mintz might be the real problem here. Joe is just getting the blame for Dan's sinking ship. Think about it, Joe's got a long resume of working at various companies. At none of the companies he worked for previously was there ever a history of such a high turnover rate of creative talent. Lionforge might no sell gangbusters, but Joe managed to maintain a consistent creative vision across the books. His history doesn't suggest he's to blame for the turmoil Valiant has been going through.

Businesses like this always need a scapegoat to blame for their shortcomings, but problems like this suggest that the issue is with the corporate culture. The biggest issue is high turnover rate of creative talent, right? Bloodshot being relaunched with two separate creative teams, Incursion being retooled mid-development, Harbingers Wars II losing half of its writing team, etc. These problems aren't exclusive to the comics though. Quantum and Woody are in limbo, Dr. Mirage has a completely different writing team, radio silence on non-Sony Valiant films, Eric Heisserer quitting Valiant, etc. Last time I checked Joe Illidge isn't in charge of Valiant's media projects, but Dan Mintz is CEO of DMG Entertainment and Chairman of Valiant Entertainment. Afterall, why would Joe drive away the people he was friends with before he worked at Valiant? Maybe he's not the one putting the pressure on writers.

I think the truth is that no one is running Valiant anymore. Dan Mintz is clearly apathetic to the characters, he couldn't even be bothered to describe them in interview released today. Apathy is a good way to describe Valiant in general lately. As if everyone is taking orders from someone who can't be bothered to learn about the company he bought, but doesn't trust the people beneath him to do their jobs.

TheeBaldMoose wrote:
kinggirlfriend wrote:
TheeBaldMoose wrote:- Attempts to bring back Faith/Dr Mirage, to a complete disaster. Fans prove while they generally love Faith, her being in her own book just doesn't float anymore. Numbers are quite possibly the worst numbers seen in a Valiant Mini as of late.
While the numbers might not be there the quality certainly is. This book is great and every Valiant fan should be reading it. And I'm not even big on Faith like that (no pun intended).
Oh, I am a big Faith fan, and I've purchased the entire run so far. I do agree that its a solid book, but I don't think that's enough, the numbers just don't lie. These numbers hurt just to look at.

Then maybe the problem isn't Faith, or Jody Houser? Whose job is it try to maximize sales of these books? That's right Mr. Matthew Klein. The guy who was fired, mysteriously came back to a big promotion, and was mysteriously promoted again after Joe was sacked. If the same problems continue to persist after Joe Illidge's firing, we'll know for sure who's really to blame, and I'm willing to bet we're in for more of the same.

TheeBaldMoose · Post by **TheeBaldMoose** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:35:50 pm

SuperMage wrote:I think Dan Mintz might be the real problem here. Joe is just getting the blame for Dan's sinking ship. Think about it, Joe's got a long resume of working at various companies. At none of the companies he worked for previously was there ever a history of such a high turnover rate of creative talent. Lionforge might no sell gangbusters, but Joe managed to maintain a consistent creative vision across the books. His history doesn't suggest he's to blame for the turmoil Valiant has been going through.

Businesses like this always need a scapegoat to blame for their shortcomings, but problems like this suggest that the issue is with the corporate culture. The biggest issue is high turnover rate of creative talent, right? Bloodshot being relaunched with two separate creative teams, Incursion being retooled mid-development, Harbingers Wars II losing half of its writing team, etc. These problems aren't exclusive to the comics though. Quantum and Woody are in limbo, Dr. Mirage has a completely different writing team, radio silence on non-Sony Valiant films, Eric Heisserer quitting Valiant, etc. Last time I checked Joe Illidge isn't in charge of Valiant's media projects, but Dan Mintz is CEO of DMG Entertainment and Chairman of Valiant Entertainment. Afterall, why would Joe drive away the people he was friends with before he worked at Valiant? Maybe he's not the one putting the pressure on writers.

I think the truth is that no one is running Valiant anymore. Dan Mintz is clearly apathetic to the characters, he couldn't even be bothered to describe them in interview released today. Apathy is a good way to describe Valiant in general lately. As if everyone is taking orders from someone who can't be bothered to learn about the company he bought, but doesn't trust the people beneath him to do their jobs.

TheeBaldMoose wrote:
kinggirlfriend wrote:
TheeBaldMoose wrote:- Attempts to bring back Faith/Dr Mirage, to a complete disaster. Fans prove while they generally love Faith, her being in her own book just doesn't float anymore. Numbers are quite possibly the worst numbers seen in a Valiant Mini as of late.
While the numbers might not be there the quality certainly is. This book is great and every Valiant fan should be reading it. And I'm not even big on Faith like that (no pun intended).
Oh, I am a big Faith fan, and I've purchased the entire run so far. I do agree that its a solid book, but I don't think that's enough, the numbers just don't lie. These numbers hurt just to look at.
Then maybe the problem isn't Faith, or Jody Houser? Whose job is it try to maximize sales of these books? That's right Mr. Matthew Klein. The guy who was fired, mysteriously came back to a big promotion, and was mysteriously promoted again after Joe was sacked. If the same problems continue to persist after Joe Illidge's firing, we'll know for sure who's really to blame, and I'm willing to bet we're in for more of the same.

See, I disagree there. They've done quite a bit of marketing regarding the return of Jody and this new mini to maximize sales. They pushed and advertised a considerable amount, including it in their Valiant Beyond images, posters, bookmarks, markers, box cutters, etc. They've pushed this mini as hard as they've pushed Bloodshot and Livewire, but the results just aren't there. If the same level of advertisements went into Faith as that have gone into BS and Livewire, yet BS gets the highest sales total of any BS book, and Livewire 1 is looking to do the same, you tell me where the problem is. I don't think it's in sales, it's in demand, and the demand just isn't there.

kinggirlfriend · Post by **kinggirlfriend** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:45:20 pm

Sometimes good books slip through the cracks and fail to find an audience. Even when it has the machine behind it and people championing it they can still fail. I don't think this is necessarily anyone's fault. I also think HW2 hurt Valiant so bad that it sucked the enthusiasm out of everything else. No matter what they come up with everything feels tainted now.

Dallow Spicer1 · Post by **Dallow Spicer1** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:08:57 pm

Robert Myers named new top editor!

The Chosen 1 · Post by **The Chosen 1** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:21:04 pm

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:Robert Myers named new top editor!

The Facebook groups seem to be quite happy and optimistic with this appointment. He doesn't have extensive experience, but he's been at Valiant for a little while and by all accounts is a good operator.

Fingers crossed.

Dallow Spicer1 · Post by **Dallow Spicer1** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:25:38 pm

The Chosen 1 wrote:
Dallow Spicer1 wrote:Robert Myers named new top editor!
The Facebook groups seem to be quite happy and optimistic with this appointment. He doesn't have extensive experience, but he's been at Valiant for a little while and by all accounts is a good operator.

Fingers crossed.

I’m gonna start off optimistic and see what he brings to the table

Elveen · Post by **Elveen** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:26:23 pm

I've spent a good amount of time with Robert.

I like him very very much.

Great dude.

SuperMage · Post by **SuperMage** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:38:53 pm

You have a good point that lack of overall interest in Valiant could be the biggest factor. Bloodshot's only boost is from the movie news, and we never heard anything on actual sales for that book. Just that they shipped a ton of returnable copies. It's hard to get a read on anything these days.

Valiant Entertainment is excited to announce that Editorial Director Robert Meyers has been promoted to Senior Editorial Director. In his new role, Meyers will help guide the vision of the Valiant Universe and the rich cast of characters

Meyers joined Valiant Entertainment as an intern back in 2013. Throughout the years, Meyers fully immersed himself in the Valiant Universe, wearing multiple hats and always pushing the brand and its characters forward. He was named Managing Editor in 2016 and became Editorial Director earlier this year. He is not only an essential member of Valiant Entertainment but also one of the Valiant Universe's biggest fans.

Interesting.

syzhang28 wrote:
Beware Cyclops wrote:
syzhang28 wrote:Sure enough now that I would say I bet we hear about another major departure soon based on this news. My bet is it's the Lionsforge guy who leaves next.
And you hit the nail right on the head! Uncanny..... or not.

New predictions:

- Valiant brings Dinesh back!
- Dinesh brings Gold Key with him!!
- Barry Windsor-Smith to draw the Josh Dysart written epic that they all make together!!!

or maybe Valiant pulls another Matthew Klein announcement and adds executive editor to the job title of someone already at Valiant. Karl Bollers? Robert Meyers?

Hey Syzhang, do you wanna maybe buy me some lottery tickets while your at it? That's twice in a row.

Alright it's my turn. Mel Caylo is going to be the next to leave, because his job is being merged with Matthew Klein's job.

AnarchoMambo · Post by **AnarchoMambo** » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:25:48 pm

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:Robert Myers named new top editor!

yes!!!

Shadowman99 · Post by **Shadowman99** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:07:13 am

Stability in staff is something that Valiant badly, badly need right now. The recent staff changeover has clearly hurt the books, and the sooner that a new and stable team can be formed, who are ready to bring enthusiasm and committment to the table, the better.

Valiant seems like a tired boxer in the 12th round right now - it's moving forward through force of will alone, but there's nothing there to back it up with. We're only just into the transition now between Dinesh/DMG era titles, and so far it looks like the company's losing steam. The marketing hasn't been anywhere near as exciting or frequent as it had under Dinesh, and the company just doesn't have that energy about it that it had up until earlier this year, and it's hurting the company's marketplace presence. The creative team (at all levels) staffing clearly isn't working right now, and this is being reflected in book sales.

Unless Valiant can re-establish a happy and quality creative staff and start improving its marketing, it'll tank.

jxm640 · Post by **jxm640** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:48:00 am

Shadowman99 wrote:Stability in staff is something that Valiant badly, badly need right now. The recent staff changeover has clearly hurt the books, and the sooner that a new and stable team can be formed, who are ready to bring enthusiasm and committment to the table, the better.

Valiant seems like a tired boxer in the 12th round right now - it's moving forward through force of will alone, but there's nothing there to back it up with. We're only just into the transition now between Dinesh/DMG era titles, and so far it looks like the company's losing steam. The marketing hasn't been anywhere near as exciting or frequent as it had under Dinesh, and the company just doesn't have that energy about it that it had up until earlier this year, and it's hurting the company's marketplace presence. The creative team (at all levels) staffing clearly isn't working right now, and this is being reflected in book sales.

Unless Valiant can re-establish a happy and quality creative staff and start improving its marketing, it'll tank.

This

AnarchoMambo · Post by **AnarchoMambo** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:56:15 am

Robert has been there for some time. He was present on the editorial staff as most of the VEI line was built out, and worked under Warren and Dinesh for years. At C2E2 he was a confident and knowledgeable presence. He will need no “catching up” as he has been around since nearly the beginning.

I cannot imagine a better choice for chief editor, as he will likely have a knowledge of and dedication to Valiant that could not be found elsewhere. He has relationships with VEI creators from all phases, so I would not be surprised to hear again from Van Lente, Venditti, and yes, perhaps more from Josh Dysart even after the Harada series. This may be the move that keeps Kindt on the team as well.

In my opinion, this is exactly the thing Valiant needed. In my brief contact with Robert Meyers and (just last year) Karl Bollers, I believe that the Valiant editors are moving towards a more lasting quality than we’ve seen in this last year.

kinggirlfriend · Post by **kinggirlfriend** » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:05:24 am

Kindt isn't sticking around. He's going to pursue the success he's having with his creator owned work. I'm sure the constant musical chairs Valiant is playing within their office is only helping him solidify his decision.

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