Time travel rules in Valiant?
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Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
The start of Birthquake. And, yeah, everything that happened in X-O Manowar's final issues that contradicts canon can be dismissed as being part of Crescendo's simulation.Ryan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 12:21:33 pmWhat issue was that? So your theory would be everything after that in X-O would be a simulation, and not part of Vh1 canon?ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 11:09:54 amFixing it is easy, just limit those experiences to X-O. Cresendo had once before put him inside a virtual reality machine. All that happened in those final issues can be a repeat of that.Ryan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 9:37:29 amI just re-read X-O 66, lol I forgot they killed Ax. Which directly contradicts Rai 0. After Birthquake there's so many things that either don't fit or directly contradict everything that came before. It would be a big challenge to integrate all of it and make sense out of it.ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 7:45:30 amIndeed.Ryan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:29:17 pmYeah there was so much weird stuff going on in X-O the last few years, I feel like the dream ending was just part of his story and something that needs to be resolved within X-O. It shouldn't have an effect on the rest of VH1. I'd have to re-read post-BQ X-O and Heavy Metal to get a grasp on it.ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 8:02:15 pm Far more than Jack jumping off the building, those final issues of X-O really screwed up VALIANT canon. It's definitely something that should be revisited and fixed. The dream ending is not the real ending.
Much like the Harbinger Wars trilogy, it's something that happened which merely needs to be resolved to put things right.
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Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
Evidence that Valiant was not sustainable long-term?ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 8:02:15 pmFar more than Jack jumping off the building, those final issues of X-O really screwed up VALIANT canon. It's definitely something that should be revisited and fixed. The dream ending is not the real ending.Ryan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:31:16 pmI was just thinking about that. 'It was all a dream' endings are usually cop-outs, but in this case it was more of a mind-f#ck. It opens up some interesting possibilities but I don't think it should negate anything that happened.ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:18:11 pmExactly.Ryan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:12:42 pmThat's cool. It does seem like in some of the stories, the characters at least think they have the ability to change events. I guess it boils down to the classic philosophical argument of determinism vs. free will. The Valiant characters may think they're acting out of free will, but they're actually just fulfilling their pre-determined roles in a deterministic universe.ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:05:32 pmTo see what was, what is, and what will be.
Ivar time traveled to reunite with Nefertiti.
Then again, it was all a fever dream Aric had while in a cell aboard a Spider Alien space ship...
Much like the Harbinger Wars trilogy, it's something that happened which merely needs to be resolved to put things right.
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Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
Nah. Remember, that arc was just Layton's way to end VALIANT to set things up for Nicieza.Chiclo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 2:36:55 pmEvidence that Valiant was not sustainable long-term?ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 8:02:15 pmFar more than Jack jumping off the building, those final issues of X-O really screwed up VALIANT canon. It's definitely something that should be revisited and fixed. The dream ending is not the real ending.Ryan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:31:16 pmI was just thinking about that. 'It was all a dream' endings are usually cop-outs, but in this case it was more of a mind-f#ck. It opens up some interesting possibilities but I don't think it should negate anything that happened.ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:18:11 pmExactly.Ryan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:12:42 pmThat's cool. It does seem like in some of the stories, the characters at least think they have the ability to change events. I guess it boils down to the classic philosophical argument of determinism vs. free will. The Valiant characters may think they're acting out of free will, but they're actually just fulfilling their pre-determined roles in a deterministic universe.ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:05:32 pm
To see what was, what is, and what will be.
Ivar time traveled to reunite with Nefertiti.
Then again, it was all a fever dream Aric had while in a cell aboard a Spider Alien space ship...
Much like the Harbinger Wars trilogy, it's something that happened which merely needs to be resolved to put things right.
Comics are like a Rorschach test, everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
So that includes Master Darque's deathManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 2:35:50 pm The start of Birthquake. And, yeah, everything that happened in X-O Manowar's final issues that contradicts canon can be dismissed as being part of Crescendo's simulation.
Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
I would say more like evidence of poor management and poor writing. There's no reason that a group of comic books can't be kept in a reasonable continuity over many years. No one expects it to be perfect.
But Birthquake was a total cash-grab that put splashy visuals and shock value ahead of any concerns over story or long-term viability. If anything, it proves that the 90's Image model (Big, splashy art with thin stories) is not a sustainable model for developing long-term comic readers. And yet people keep trying it.
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Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
Absolutely.Ryan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 3:02:38 pmSo that includes Master Darque's deathManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 2:35:50 pm The start of Birthquake. And, yeah, everything that happened in X-O Manowar's final issues that contradicts canon can be dismissed as being part of Crescendo's simulation.
At a glance, the whole thing looks like a video game, with Aric fighting a different boss on each new level.
Comics are like a Rorschach test, everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
From X-O 46. It would make sense that everything from X-O 44-68 takes place in Crescendo's VR machine. Definitely all feels like a video game, good call.ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 3:20:32 pmAbsolutely.Ryan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 3:02:38 pmSo that includes Master Darque's deathManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 2:35:50 pm The start of Birthquake. And, yeah, everything that happened in X-O Manowar's final issues that contradicts canon can be dismissed as being part of Crescendo's simulation.
At a glance, the whole thing looks like a video game, with Aric fighting a different boss on each new level.
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Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
Thanks. It would be the easiest explanation.Ryan wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 10:52:25 pmScreenshot 2023-11-12 224201.pngManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 3:20:32 pmAbsolutely.Ryan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 3:02:38 pmSo that includes Master Darque's deathManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 2:35:50 pm The start of Birthquake. And, yeah, everything that happened in X-O Manowar's final issues that contradicts canon can be dismissed as being part of Crescendo's simulation.
At a glance, the whole thing looks like a video game, with Aric fighting a different boss on each new level.
From X-O 46. It would make sense that everything from X-O 44-68 takes place in Crescendo's VR machine. Definitely all feels like a video game, good call.
Comics are like a Rorschach test, everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
Yeah I think it fits. It makes more sense since it's not just a fancy VR machine, Crescendo also has mental illusionist powers in some ways similar to Loki.ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:16:17 amThanks. It would be the easiest explanation.Ryan wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 10:52:25 pmScreenshot 2023-11-12 224201.pngManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 3:20:32 pmAbsolutely.Ryan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 3:02:38 pmSo that includes Master Darque's deathManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 2:35:50 pm The start of Birthquake. And, yeah, everything that happened in X-O Manowar's final issues that contradicts canon can be dismissed as being part of Crescendo's simulation.
At a glance, the whole thing looks like a video game, with Aric fighting a different boss on each new level.
From X-O 46. It would make sense that everything from X-O 44-68 takes place in Crescendo's VR machine. Definitely all feels like a video game, good call.
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Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
We can even dismiss the crossover with Iron Man as part of the same scam since it had already previously been established that DC and Marvel heroes are fictional in the VALIANT Universe.Ryan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 9:17:04 amYeah I think it fits. It makes more sense since it's not just a fancy VR machine, Crescendo also has mental illusionist powers in some ways similar to Loki.ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:16:17 amThanks. It would be the easiest explanation.Ryan wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 10:52:25 pmScreenshot 2023-11-12 224201.pngManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 3:20:32 pmAbsolutely.Ryan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 3:02:38 pmSo that includes Master Darque's deathManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 2:35:50 pm The start of Birthquake. And, yeah, everything that happened in X-O Manowar's final issues that contradicts canon can be dismissed as being part of Crescendo's simulation.
At a glance, the whole thing looks like a video game, with Aric fighting a different boss on each new level.
From X-O 46. It would make sense that everything from X-O 44-68 takes place in Crescendo's VR machine. Definitely all feels like a video game, good call.
Comics are like a Rorschach test, everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
Ooo yeah, I haven't re-read that one yet but Crescendo is also involved, right? And the fact that it's an actual video game ties it all togetherManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 9:47:45 amWe can even dismiss the crossover with Iron Man as part of the same scam since it had already previously been established that DC and Marvel heroes are fictional in the VALIANT Universe.Ryan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 9:17:04 amYeah I think it fits. It makes more sense since it's not just a fancy VR machine, Crescendo also has mental illusionist powers in some ways similar to Loki.ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:16:17 amThanks. It would be the easiest explanation.Ryan wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 10:52:25 pmScreenshot 2023-11-12 224201.pngManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 3:20:32 pmAbsolutely.
At a glance, the whole thing looks like a video game, with Aric fighting a different boss on each new level.
From X-O 46. It would make sense that everything from X-O 44-68 takes place in Crescendo's VR machine. Definitely all feels like a video game, good call.
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Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
She is in it, yeah.Ryan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 10:02:14 amOoo yeah, I haven't re-read that one yet but Crescendo is also involved, right? And the fact that it's an actual video game ties it all togetherManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 9:47:45 amWe can even dismiss the crossover with Iron Man as part of the same scam since it had already previously been established that DC and Marvel heroes are fictional in the VALIANT Universe.Ryan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 9:17:04 amYeah I think it fits. It makes more sense since it's not just a fancy VR machine, Crescendo also has mental illusionist powers in some ways similar to Loki.ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:16:17 amThanks. It would be the easiest explanation.Ryan wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 10:52:25 pmScreenshot 2023-11-12 224201.pngManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 3:20:32 pm
Absolutely.
At a glance, the whole thing looks like a video game, with Aric fighting a different boss on each new level.
From X-O 46. It would make sense that everything from X-O 44-68 takes place in Crescendo's VR machine. Definitely all feels like a video game, good call.
The crazier things get at VALIANT, particularly with X-O, the easier it is to dismiss them as part of Crecesndo messing with Aric.
Comics are like a Rorschach test, everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
Definitely. As you said the Marvel characters are established as fictional within the Valiant universe, so the whole thing could be an elaborate hoax/fantasy created by Crescendo.ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 10:51:33 am
She is in it, yeah.
The crazier things get at VALIANT, particularly with X-O, the easier it is to dismiss them as part of Crecesndo messing with Aric.
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Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
Indeed. And that's all the resolution VH 2 needs.Ryan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 1:23:48 pmDefinitely. As you said the Marvel characters are established as fictional within the Valiant universe, so the whole thing could be an elaborate hoax/fantasy created by Crescendo.ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 10:51:33 am
She is in it, yeah.
The crazier things get at VALIANT, particularly with X-O, the easier it is to dismiss them as part of Crecesndo messing with Aric.
Comics are like a Rorschach test, everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
I know you don't agree, but I see VH2, 3, VEI, etc. as alternate universes within a Valiant multiverse. As established in Solar that VH1 is an alternate universe to Phil's original world (VH0, in theory an exact copy of our universe), and established in Unity 2K that the Valiant multiverse is a real thing.
I'm not a fan of mulitverses either, especially now with the current multiverse trend in pop culture. But they can be done in a more controlled way that doesn't lead to the abuses we see in Marvel, DC, etc. It's the only way that all the iterations of the Valiant characters can co-exist in a way that doesn't minimize or try to negate certain versions.
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Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
Unity 2000 can be dismissed, though.Ryan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 2:45:28 pmI know you don't agree, but I see VH2, 3, VEI, etc. as alternate universes within a Valiant multiverse. As established in Solar that VH1 is an alternate universe to Phil's original world (VH0, in theory an exact copy of our universe), and established in Unity 2K that the Valiant multiverse is a real thing.
I'm not a fan of mulitverses either, especially now with the current multiverse trend in pop culture. But they can be done in a more controlled way that doesn't lead to the abuses we see in Marvel, DC, etc. It's the only way that all the iterations of the Valiant characters can co-exist in a way that doesn't minimize or try to negate certain versions.
Phil didn't travel to another universe, he traveled back in time and prevented the destruction of the world.
Comics are like a Rorschach test, everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
That's one way to interpret it. All the Valiant comics exist, whatever way one wants to interpret them is up to them.ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 3:31:20 pmUnity 2000 can be dismissed, though.Ryan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 2:45:28 pmI know you don't agree, but I see VH2, 3, VEI, etc. as alternate universes within a Valiant multiverse. As established in Solar that VH1 is an alternate universe to Phil's original world (VH0, in theory an exact copy of our universe), and established in Unity 2K that the Valiant multiverse is a real thing.
I'm not a fan of mulitverses either, especially now with the current multiverse trend in pop culture. But they can be done in a more controlled way that doesn't lead to the abuses we see in Marvel, DC, etc. It's the only way that all the iterations of the Valiant characters can co-exist in a way that doesn't minimize or try to negate certain versions.
Phil didn't travel to another universe, he traveled back in time and prevented the destruction of the world.
I choose to look at it like a multiverse, not because I like multiverses, but because that way all the different iterations can exist and be 'valid'. In my brain at least.
And there's plenty of instances within the comics themselves that support my interpretation. Not that my way is the only way to interpret those things. It's just the way that it makes sense to me.
There's plenty of things I don't like about Unity 2000, but I still enjoy it in many ways too.
If Phil just traveled back in time and is still in the 'normal' world, how do things like the Immortal brothers and Master Darque exist in that world when they didn't before?
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Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
He was responsible for creating them. He rewrote the nature of the universe. It's part of the reason why Erica hates him, and what she believes she can fix with her wish machine in Unity.Ryan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 4:17:51 pmThat's one way to interpret it. All the Valiant comics exist, whatever way one wants to interpret them is up to them.ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 3:31:20 pmUnity 2000 can be dismissed, though.Ryan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 2:45:28 pmI know you don't agree, but I see VH2, 3, VEI, etc. as alternate universes within a Valiant multiverse. As established in Solar that VH1 is an alternate universe to Phil's original world (VH0, in theory an exact copy of our universe), and established in Unity 2K that the Valiant multiverse is a real thing.
I'm not a fan of mulitverses either, especially now with the current multiverse trend in pop culture. But they can be done in a more controlled way that doesn't lead to the abuses we see in Marvel, DC, etc. It's the only way that all the iterations of the Valiant characters can co-exist in a way that doesn't minimize or try to negate certain versions.
Phil didn't travel to another universe, he traveled back in time and prevented the destruction of the world.
I choose to look at it like a multiverse, not because I like multiverses, but because that way all the different iterations can exist and be 'valid'. In my brain at least.
And there's plenty of instances within the comics themselves that support my interpretation. Not that my way is the only way to interpret those things. It's just the way that it makes sense to me.
There's plenty of things I don't like about Unity 2000, but I still enjoy it in many ways too.
If Phil just traveled back in time and is still in the 'normal' world, how do things like the Immortal brothers and Master Darque exist in that world when they didn't before?
They both came from the real world, and when they returned to it after the black hole destroyed it it was no longer the same. Now it had aliens and psiots, and immortals, and such.
Comics are like a Rorschach test, everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
Functionally 'rewriting the nature of the universe' and 'creating an alternate reality' is the same thing. I guess the difference is whether you think the previous universe/reality existed separately and was destroyed, or if you think this new reality has overwritten the previous one. Mostly a matter of semantics and interpretation IMO.ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 4:31:53 pm He was responsible for creating them. He rewrote the nature of the universe. It's part of the reason why Erica hates him, and what she believes she can fix with her wish machine in Unity.
They both came from the real world, and when they returned to it after the black hole destroyed it it was no longer the same. Now it had aliens and psiots, and immortals, and such.
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Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
Well, it's not about what we think but rather what was established in the comics, which is that he went back in time and prevented the destruction of the world. There is no acknowledgement or belief on his or anyone else's part that he traveled from one universe to another.Ryan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 5:26:57 pmFunctionally 'rewriting the nature of the universe' and 'creating an alternate reality' is the same thing. I guess the difference is whether you think the previous universe/reality existed separately and was destroyed, or if you think this new reality has overwritten the previous one. Mostly a matter of semantics and interpretation IMO.ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 4:31:53 pm He was responsible for creating them. He rewrote the nature of the universe. It's part of the reason why Erica hates him, and what she believes she can fix with her wish machine in Unity.
They both came from the real world, and when they returned to it after the black hole destroyed it it was no longer the same. Now it had aliens and psiots, and immortals, and such.
Comics are like a Rorschach test, everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
Ok, but what's in the comics is open to interpretation. The fact is that the Valiant universe is not our universe, nor is it the same universe as the one Phil started in. The world Phil started in - Gold Key comics are fictional, no immortals, no aliens, etc. Phil destroys that world with a black hole and time travels or travels to a different universe, where there's an Earth that's similar to his own but not the same, it has immortals, aliens, super powered beings, and Gold Key characters really exist, they're not fiction.ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 7:30:40 pmWell, it's not about what we think but rather what was established in the comics, which is that he went back in time and prevented the destruction of the world. There is no acknowledgement or belief on his or anyone else's part that he traveled from one universe to another.Ryan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 5:26:57 pmFunctionally 'rewriting the nature of the universe' and 'creating an alternate reality' is the same thing. I guess the difference is whether you think the previous universe/reality existed separately and was destroyed, or if you think this new reality has overwritten the previous one. Mostly a matter of semantics and interpretation IMO.ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 4:31:53 pm He was responsible for creating them. He rewrote the nature of the universe. It's part of the reason why Erica hates him, and what she believes she can fix with her wish machine in Unity.
They both came from the real world, and when they returned to it after the black hole destroyed it it was no longer the same. Now it had aliens and psiots, and immortals, and such.
Whether you call it time travel that 'rewrote the nature of the universe' or time travel that created an alternate universe, it's a matter of semantics. An alternate world was created. It's never explicitly stated in the comics exactly what he did (that I remember), so that leaves room for interpretation as to what exactly happened.
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Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
But it's not that I call it time travel, it's that the comics did. Phil messing up with time was at the crux of his conflict with Mothergod. She believed he screwed up time. He was directly responsible for creating the immortals, aliens, and such.Ryan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:01:07 pmOk, but what's in the comics is open to interpretation. The fact is that the Valiant universe is not our universe, nor is it the same universe as the one Phil started in. The world Phil started in - Gold Key comics are fictional, no immortals, no aliens, etc. Phil destroys that world with a black hole and time travels or travels to a different universe, where there's an Earth that's similar to his own but not the same, it has immortals, aliens, super powered beings, and Gold Key characters really exist, they're not fiction.ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 7:30:40 pmWell, it's not about what we think but rather what was established in the comics, which is that he went back in time and prevented the destruction of the world. There is no acknowledgement or belief on his or anyone else's part that he traveled from one universe to another.Ryan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 5:26:57 pmFunctionally 'rewriting the nature of the universe' and 'creating an alternate reality' is the same thing. I guess the difference is whether you think the previous universe/reality existed separately and was destroyed, or if you think this new reality has overwritten the previous one. Mostly a matter of semantics and interpretation IMO.ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 4:31:53 pm He was responsible for creating them. He rewrote the nature of the universe. It's part of the reason why Erica hates him, and what she believes she can fix with her wish machine in Unity.
They both came from the real world, and when they returned to it after the black hole destroyed it it was no longer the same. Now it had aliens and psiots, and immortals, and such.
Whether you call it time travel that 'rewrote the nature of the universe' or time travel that created an alternate universe, it's a matter of semantics. An alternate world was created. It's never explicitly stated in the comics exactly what he did (that I remember), so that leaves room for interpretation as to what exactly happened.
Comics are like a Rorschach test, everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
Ok, so you're saying there's no alternate world created, right? So are there Solar, Magnus, and Turok comics in the VH1 universe that are also canon events that happen in the universe? How do you explain the existence of VH2, VH3, Unity 2000 and VEI?ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:10:56 pm But it's not that I call it time travel, it's that the comics did. Phil messing up with time was at the crux of his conflict with Mothergod. She believed he screwed up time. He was directly responsible for creating the immortals, aliens, and such.
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Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
VH 2 came into existence as a result of Aric using the Cosmic Cube from Marvel comics to give himself the X-O Manowar armor in the past.Ryan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:20:44 pmOk, so you're saying there's no alternate world created, right? So are there Solar, Magnus, and Turok comics in the VH1 universe that are also canon events that happen in the universe? How do you explain the existence of VH2, VH3, Unity 2000 and VEI?ManofTheAtom wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:10:56 pm But it's not that I call it time travel, it's that the comics did. Phil messing up with time was at the crux of his conflict with Mothergod. She believed he screwed up time. He was directly responsible for creating the immortals, aliens, and such.
Since Iron Man and other such characters had already been established as being fictional within the narrative of the VALIANT Universe, such a crossover could not have happened outside the confines of Crescendo's virtual reality machine. We already established this earlier, heh.
Since everything that followed came as a result of that, it can all be dismissed similarly.
And, yeah, there was no alternate world created. When Phil went back in time, he changed the very nature of the universe. He was a schizophrenic comic book fanboy who created a machine that gave him the powers of his favorite superhero, which he then used to change the fundamental aspects of the universe.
Comics are like a Rorschach test, everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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Re: Time travel rules in Valiant?
There're the rules by which the VALIANT Universe operated and then there are the rules Nicieza brought him with from Marvel.
Everything prior to X-O Manowar/Iron Man adhered to the former, while everything after adhered to the latter.
Everything prior to X-O Manowar/Iron Man adhered to the former, while everything after adhered to the latter.
Comics are like a Rorschach test, everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...