Resurgence of the Valiant Universe #3

[Dallow Spicer1]

This is Fred Van Lente on steroids! An overly ambitious story littered with boring ‘Marvel style’ quips. This universe wide crossover with every Valiant character crammed in whether it makes sense or not is just dull. The plot lurches from one place to the next and I zoned out that many times I can’t recall much detail of what happened.

Art wasn’t to my taste either.

The best I can say about Alien is that I THINK they want to do the right thing. However, they haven’t got the editorial or creative talent to make books worth reading. They should change whoever is in charge of creative decisions, put fewer books out but pay for better writers and artists.

1/5 - waste of time, avoid.

[ManofTheAtom]

I liked it, and thought the art was great.

Other than for Tama's reference to a multiverse I liked it, both the story and the art.

I liked seeing Archer fight the Killers in the Faraway, that was cool.

I had a feeling Silk would show up in the B plot to get to the kid, Chris.

As I suspected, Flamingo's resurrection messed with her mind. Things are clearly not what they seem for her or Kay.

Divinity's development will likely lead into the rumored returns of VH-1 and VH-2, so it is apt for Aric -- the first and flagship hero of the VEI iteration of VALIANT to be there.

It will be interesting if that C arc results in a visual depiction of all three iterations of VALIANT like the one of VH-1 and VH-2 in the VH-2 Bloodshot series in either of the two next issues of Resurgence.

I will reiterate that I am very much on the fence about any return of the VH-1 continuity at this point, even though prior to the launch of VEI I was THE loudest voice on the VFans.com board who was against a reboot and starting from scratch.

In hindsight, Dinesh provided VALIANT with a strong foundation (considerably stronger than VH 2 did) that shows it really was the only way to go.

When Ronald. D. Moore rebooted Battlestar Galactica, fans of the original argued that it should have instead been a continuation of the original, to which he responded that that would have required also including Galactica 1980, in which the colonials found Earth.

The passage of real time was as much an important aspect of VH 1 as tight continuity and a real-world setting.

Consequently, bringing VH 1 back should include respecting the events depicted in Rai #0, such as the death of Jack Boniface and the end of Master Darque and the Darque power in 1999, the death of Archer, his marriage to Flamingo, and Geoff becoming a grandfather in 2020, and the looming death of Bloodshot in 2028.

VH 1 in 2024 -- or even in 2012 -- would not be the VH 1 of the '90s. Any betrayal of Rai #0 would be a betrayal of VALIANT in general, and it would just be favoritism.

For a VH 1 revival to work in 2024 -- or, again, 2012 for that matter -- would require new characters, new concepts, etc. to co-exist alongside which ever original ones from the '90s were still viable today. If whoever publishes VALIANT is going to do that, they might as well reboot so they can have both the original characters in their prime and those new concepts.

But, Alien may have a plan in motion that can make it work.

For me, it has to be about the story and characters first, not just the drawings on the page. It's not enough for Shadowman in 2025 to look like he did in 1995.

[Dallow Spicer1]

Wow, I wish I lived in your world!

[ManofTheAtom]

Wow, I wish I lived in your world!

Ok.

I forgot to say, it is worth noting that those who are not on Earth can still die. It shows the limits of what Silk has done.

[The Harbinger]

Seems like something rushed forward. I recall Flamingo and Zephyr meeting up from previous issue, but this one has the scene with Flamingo just shooting fire at the other good guys. Needed more time to focus on how the sides would divide so easily.

Might have been too ambitious of an idea for 4 issues.

Wonder who would be pulled from VH1 into the universe? Ax, Rexo, and Sting stick out as better versions in the VH1 era. When I start venturing out to other properties though, some of them Dinesh made better. Harada is definitely way cooler.

Archer and Armstrong has an approved visual dynamic in VEI and honestly more interesting stories, as does Eternal Warrior. Livewire is botched, but the VH1 Livewire while likable, can't carry the weight of a storyline.

XO is fine, I like VH1's more but don't feel a need to replace him. VEI Ninjak is better. VEI Shadowman and Darque fits better in 2024. Bloodshot is about equal between VH1 and VEI.

[ManofTheAtom]

Seems like something rushed forward. I recall Flamingo and Zephyr meeting up from previous issue, but this one has the scene with Flamingo just shooting fire at the other good guys. Needed more time to focus on how the sides would divide so easily.

Might have been too ambitious of an idea for 4 issues.

Wonder who would be pulled from VH1 into the universe? Ax, Rexo, and Sting stick out as better versions in the VH1 era. When I start venturing out to other properties though, some of them Dinesh made better. Harada is definitely way cooler.

Archer and Armstrong has an approved visual dynamic in VEI and honestly more interesting stories, as does Eternal Warrior. Livewire is botched, but the VH1 Livewire while likable, can't carry the weight of a storyline.

XO is fine, I like VH1's more but don't feel a need to replace him. VEI Ninjak is better. VEI Shadowman and Darque fits better in 2024. Bloodshot is about equal between VH1 and VEI.

For me, the goal should be integrating the tone and character arcs from the VH-1 universe and characters into the VEI version far more than one replacing the other.

Think of it as when DC and Marvel amalgamated their characters but done with the three versions of each VALIANT character from the three distinct universes.

[Dallow Spicer1]

Wow, I wish I lived in your world!

I forgot to say, it is worth noting that those who are not on Earth can still die. It shows the limits of what Silk has done.

How arbitrary is that!! Poorly thought out from the start, layered with more poorly thought out ‘plot twists’

[Ryan]

Consequently, bringing VH 1 back should include respecting the events depicted in Rai #0, such as the death of Jack Boniface and the end of Master Darque and the Darque power in 1999, the death of Archer, his marriage to Flamingo, and Geoff becoming a grandfather in 2020, and the looming death of Bloodshot in 2028.

That never happened, check the actual quote, no Jack Boniface nor Master Darque mentioned.

From what I've seen and read of Resurgence, it seems like more fantasy sci-fi and Marvel-like than even VH2 was. To argue that it's going to get Valiant back to 'integrating the tone' of Vh1 makes no logical sense.

[ManofTheAtom]

Wow, I wish I lived in your world!

I forgot to say, it is worth noting that those who are not on Earth can still die. It shows the limits of what Silk has done.

How arbitrary is that!! Poorly thought out from the start, layered with more poorly thought out ‘plot twists’

It merely means that what he did does not extend beyond the atmosphere.

[ManofTheAtom]

Consequently, bringing VH 1 back should include respecting the events depicted in Rai #0, such as the death of Jack Boniface and the end of Master Darque and the Darque power in 1999, the death of Archer, his marriage to Flamingo, and Geoff becoming a grandfather in 2020, and the looming death of Bloodshot in 2028.

That never happened, check the actual quote, no Jack Boniface nor Master Darque mentioned.

Screenshot 2024-02-28 120932.png


From what I've seen and read of Resurgence, it seems like more fantasy sci-fi and Marvel-like than even VH2 was. To argue that it's going to get Valiant back to 'integrating the tone' of Vh1 makes no logical sense.

Jack is Shadowman.

[Ryan]

Consequently, bringing VH 1 back should include respecting the events depicted in Rai #0, such as the death of Jack Boniface and the end of Master Darque and the Darque power in 1999, the death of Archer, his marriage to Flamingo, and Geoff becoming a grandfather in 2020, and the looming death of Bloodshot in 2028.

That never happened, check the actual quote, no Jack Boniface nor Master Darque mentioned.

Screenshot 2024-02-28 120932.png


From what I've seen and read of Resurgence, it seems like more fantasy sci-fi and Marvel-like than even VH2 was. To argue that it's going to get Valiant back to 'integrating the tone' of Vh1 makes no logical sense.

Jack is Shadowman.

Shadowman is a lineage title that has had multiple different characters taking the mantle. In Vh1, Maxim St. James had been brought to the present time before 1999, and the Michael LeRoi character had been introduced, originally intended to be yet another Vh1 Shadowman.

That's 3 different Shadowman characters introduced before 1999, any of whom (or a character who hadn't been introduced by 1996) could have been the 'dark vested hero called Shadowman' killed in Rai 0. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

[ManofTheAtom]

Consequently, bringing VH 1 back should include respecting the events depicted in Rai #0, such as the death of Jack Boniface and the end of Master Darque and the Darque power in 1999, the death of Archer, his marriage to Flamingo, and Geoff becoming a grandfather in 2020, and the looming death of Bloodshot in 2028.

That never happened, check the actual quote, no Jack Boniface nor Master Darque mentioned.

Screenshot 2024-02-28 120932.png


From what I've seen and read of Resurgence, it seems like more fantasy sci-fi and Marvel-like than even VH2 was. To argue that it's going to get Valiant back to 'integrating the tone' of Vh1 makes no logical sense.

Jack is Shadowman.

Shadowman is a lineage title that has had multiple different characters taking the mantle. In Vh1, Maxim St. James had been brought to the present time before 1999, and the Michael LeRoi character had been introduced, originally intended to be yet another Vh1 Shadowman.

That's 3 different Shadowman characters introduced before 1999, any of whom (or a character who hadn't been introduced by 1996) could have been the 'dark vested hero called Shadowman' killed in Rai 0. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

If Jack survived past 1999, where did he go?

Why would he stop recording music?

Why would he vanish from the face of the Earth to the point that there are no records of his existence past 1999 for Elya to find?

[Ryan]

Consequently, bringing VH 1 back should include respecting the events depicted in Rai #0, such as the death of Jack Boniface and the end of Master Darque and the Darque power in 1999, the death of Archer, his marriage to Flamingo, and Geoff becoming a grandfather in 2020, and the looming death of Bloodshot in 2028.

That never happened, check the actual quote, no Jack Boniface nor Master Darque mentioned.

Screenshot 2024-02-28 120932.png


From what I've seen and read of Resurgence, it seems like more fantasy sci-fi and Marvel-like than even VH2 was. To argue that it's going to get Valiant back to 'integrating the tone' of Vh1 makes no logical sense.

Jack is Shadowman.

Shadowman is a lineage title that has had multiple different characters taking the mantle. In Vh1, Maxim St. James had been brought to the present time before 1999, and the Michael LeRoi character had been introduced, originally intended to be yet another Vh1 Shadowman.

That's 3 different Shadowman characters introduced before 1999, any of whom (or a character who hadn't been introduced by 1996) could have been the 'dark vested hero called Shadowman' killed in Rai 0. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

If Jack survived past 1999, where did he go?

Why would he stop recording music?

Why would he vanish from the face of the Earth to the point that there are no records of his existence past 1999 for Elya to find?

Where did any of the Vh1 characters go after 1996? We don't know, those stories were never told.

You're drawing conclusions from circumstantial evidence at best. There are multiple ways to interpret that evidence, it's only fiction after all.

Maybe Dr. Silk will just resurrect everyone who ever lived? No that would be too far-fetched in a hard science universe like Valiant

[ManofTheAtom]

Consequently, bringing VH 1 back should include respecting the events depicted in Rai #0, such as the death of Jack Boniface and the end of Master Darque and the Darque power in 1999, the death of Archer, his marriage to Flamingo, and Geoff becoming a grandfather in 2020, and the looming death of Bloodshot in 2028.

That never happened, check the actual quote, no Jack Boniface nor Master Darque mentioned.

Screenshot 2024-02-28 120932.png


From what I've seen and read of Resurgence, it seems like more fantasy sci-fi and Marvel-like than even VH2 was. To argue that it's going to get Valiant back to 'integrating the tone' of Vh1 makes no logical sense.

Jack is Shadowman.

Shadowman is a lineage title that has had multiple different characters taking the mantle. In Vh1, Maxim St. James had been brought to the present time before 1999, and the Michael LeRoi character had been introduced, originally intended to be yet another Vh1 Shadowman.

That's 3 different Shadowman characters introduced before 1999, any of whom (or a character who hadn't been introduced by 1996) could have been the 'dark vested hero called Shadowman' killed in Rai 0. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

If Jack survived past 1999, where did he go?

Why would he stop recording music?

Why would he vanish from the face of the Earth to the point that there are no records of his existence past 1999 for Elya to find?

Where did any of the Vh1 characters go after 1996? We don't know, those stories were never told.

You're drawing conclusions from circumstantial evidence at best. There are multiple ways to interpret that evidence, it's only fiction after all.

Maybe Dr. Silk will just resurrect everyone who ever lived? No that would be too far-fetched in a hard science universe like Valiant

You keep ignoring the fact that Silk is using advanced technology to stop people from dying.

Anyway, if Jack had lived past 1999 then Elya would have found records of it.

[Ryan]

You keep ignoring the fact that Silk is using advanced technology to stop people from dying.

Anyway, if Jack had lived past 1999 then Elya would have found records of it.

What if advanced technology hid those records from Elya? Technology so advanced that it would seem like magic. Clarke's third law.

[ManofTheAtom]

You keep ignoring the fact that Silk is using advanced technology to stop people from dying.

Anyway, if Jack had lived past 1999 then Elya would have found records of it.

What if advanced technology hid those records from Elya? Technology so advanced that it would seem like magic. Clarke's third law.

No. You need to find an actual reason why she wouldn't find ANY records of him.

He would have died at any point between 1999 and 4001 and she found no record of anyone with his DNA at any point after 1999.

Whether he died then or when he was a 100 living under an assumed name, those records could not be hidden from her.

[Ryan]

No. You need to find an actual reason why she wouldn't find ANY records of him.

He would have died at any point between 1999 and 4001 and she found no record of anyone with his DNA at any point after 1999.

Whether he died then or when he was a 100 living under an assumed name, those records could not be hidden from her.

Any Geomancer or Harbinger (many of whom can control machines) in 2000 years could have changed those records.

We don't know how extensive the records were. It could have just said, Jack Boniface was Shadowman. Shadowman died a grisly death in 1999, and she assumed it meant him.

Why no mention of Maxim St. James in the records or that Jack jumped off a building in 1995? Records were corrupted or incomplete, that much is proven.

[ManofTheAtom]

No. You need to find an actual reason why she wouldn't find ANY records of him.

He would have died at any point between 1999 and 4001 and she found no record of anyone with his DNA at any point after 1999.

Whether he died then or when he was a 100 living under an assumed name, those records could not be hidden from her.

Any Geomancer or Harbinger (many of whom can control machines) in 2000 years could have changed those records.

We don't know how extensive the records were. It could have just said, Jack Boniface was Shadowman. Shadowman died a grisly death in 1999, and she assumed it meant him.

Why no mention of Maxim St. James in the records or that Jack jumped off a building in 1995? Records were corrupted or incomplete, that much is proven.

She wasn't looking for Shadowman or for Maxim St. James. She was looking for Jack Boniface.

You are conflating what she told Jack she found with what Rockland told Takao. The two are not the same thing.

[Ryan]

She wasn't looking for Shadowman or for Maxim St. James. She was looking for Jack Boniface.

You are conflating what she told Jack she found with what Rockland told Takao. The two are not the same thing.

Yeah I know what she said, it's far from the iron-clad, definitive statement you're making it out to be.

You're also ignoring the many interviews given after Unity that hint and overtly suggest that there was a plan in place to keep Jack alive.

I get it, you want to pretend that Valiant is some sort of air-tight fictional universe with no contradictions or inconsistencies. But that's just not how these things work in reality.

I will stop making posts in this thread now, so it can get back to discussion of Resurgence #3.