VH-2 Reprints?

[ManofTheAtom]

I've noticed that since the 2012 relaunch VEI and, now, Alien have both reprinted VH-1 comics published by Voyager, but I don't recall seeing any reprints of VH-2 comics published by Acclaim (except, MAYBE, Quantum & Woody?).

Is that accurate or they do exist and I just haven't seen them/remember?

If they don't exist, is it that there is no perceived market for them or is it that both VEI and Alien would rather focus on the original iteration instead because it's the one that more closely resembles the current comics?

Lack of a market for them would be ironic given that the main selling point for VH-2 was the popularity of the creators.

Another question would be, have all or some of those creators become more or less popular since the release of those comics? If the former, would reprints of VH-2 sell better now than when they were originally published?

[nycjadie]

VEI put out a Shadowman TPB reprint that’s pretty nice. I think that was it, save the Quantum and Woody Omnibus.

[ManofTheAtom]

VEI put out a Shadowman TPB reprint that’s pretty nice. I think that was it, save the Quantum and Woody Omnibus.

Interesting.

[Cyberstrike]

Another question would be, have all or some of those creators become more or less popular since the release of those comics? If the former, would reprints of VH-2 sell better now than when they were originally published?

I would say some popularity of the creators it depends on the creator.
For me:
Warren Ellis has seemed to slip down in popularity a bit, some of it due to his lateness and unless it's a passion project for him most of his work seems to be dialed in.
Mark Waid is more controversial than ever mostly for his out-spoken political beliefs then his work being good or bad. Take it for what it is.
Kurt Busick seems to be still pretty popular and is busy with creator-owned projects at Image and doesn't any more or less popular today then he was back in 90s/00s.
Kevin McGuire seems to be popular for his artwork on Justice League International and very little else.

Regardless of what you think of their work for Valiant or recently they all have their own fanbases and while it's kind of surprising that they're work at Valiant hasn't been reprinted before by Dino and company some of it could be royalties, rights, or even trying to get them promote the book (via new cover art or intro) and maybe they don't look back fondly at their work and/or time at Valiant and don't want to be reminded of it.

[ManofTheAtom]

Another question would be, have all or some of those creators become more or less popular since the release of those comics? If the former, would reprints of VH-2 sell better now than when they were originally published?

I would say some popularity of the creators it depends on the creator.
For me:
Warren Ellis has seemed to slip down in popularity a bit, some of it due to his lateness and unless it's a passion project for him most of his work seems to be dialed in.
Mark Waid is more controversial than ever mostly for his out-spoken political beliefs then his work being good or bad. Take it for what it is.
Kurt Busick seems to be still pretty popular and is busy with creator-owned projects at Image and doesn't any more or less popular today then he was back in 90s/00s.
Kevin McGuire seems to be popular for his artwork on Justice League International and very little else.

Regardless of what you think of their work for Valiant or recently they all have their own fanbases and while it's kind of surprising that they're work at Valiant hasn't been reprinted before by Dino and company some of it could be royalties, rights, or even trying to get them promote the book (via new cover art or intro) and maybe they don't look back fondly at their work and/or time at Valiant and don't want to be reminded of it.

Interesting.

I recall Maguire raising a stink over Trinity Angels, but I don't recall how that was resolved, if at all.

[Ryan]

They've done 2 VH2 Shadowman reprints collecting most of the series, and most (all?) of Q & W. What else is worthy of reprinting? Maybe Bloodshot?

I don't think it makes sense to reprint all of it considering Vh2 was never that popular and its still pretty easy to get almost the entire run cheaply on the back issue market.

Maybe a compendium style book would be cool.

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[ManofTheAtom]

They've done 2 VH2 Shadowman reprints collecting most of the series, and most (all?) of Q & W. What else is worthy of reprinting? Maybe Bloodshot?

I don't think it makes sense to reprint all of it considering Vh2 was never that popular and its still pretty easy to get almost the entire run cheaply on the back issue market.

Maybe a compendium style book would be cool.



Screenshot 2024-12-30 131324.png

Screenshot 2024-12-30 131341.png

Ironic.

[Ryan]

Ironic.

Or just bad business decisions. The lazy way to build a comic universe is just to go out and hire a bunch of creators who seem 'hot' based on a recently successful series with no consideration to larger vision or plan. And yet the 'hottest' writer VEI hired, Justin Jordan, also produced the least popular series, Shadowman. Maybe that's just a poor way to build a universe for the long term.

[ManofTheAtom]

Ironic.

Or just bad business decisions. The lazy way to build a comic universe is just to go out and hire a bunch of creators who seem 'hot' based on a recently successful series with no consideration to larger vision or plan. And yet the 'hottest' writer VEI hired, Justin Jordan, also produced the least popular series, Shadowman. Maybe that's just a poor way to build a universe for the long term.

Jordan was the hottest? I'd say Van Lente.

[Ryan]

Ironic.

Or just bad business decisions. The lazy way to build a comic universe is just to go out and hire a bunch of creators who seem 'hot' based on a recently successful series with no consideration to larger vision or plan. And yet the 'hottest' writer VEI hired, Justin Jordan, also produced the least popular series, Shadowman. Maybe that's just a poor way to build a universe for the long term.

Jordan was the hottest? I'd say Van Lente.

I'll admit I don't follow comics close enough to know what the exact rankings on the 'hot' chart were. I just know that Jordan had a hit for Image with Luther Strode, and that made him a semi-hot name at the time. What hits or successful series has Van Lente had? I honestly don't know.

[ManofTheAtom]

Ironic.

Or just bad business decisions. The lazy way to build a comic universe is just to go out and hire a bunch of creators who seem 'hot' based on a recently successful series with no consideration to larger vision or plan. And yet the 'hottest' writer VEI hired, Justin Jordan, also produced the least popular series, Shadowman. Maybe that's just a poor way to build a universe for the long term.

Jordan was the hottest? I'd say Van Lente.

I'll admit I don't follow comics close enough to know what the exact rankings on the 'hot' chart were. I just know that Jordan had a hit for Image with Luther Strode, and that made him a semi-hot name at the time. What hits or successful series has Van Lente had? I honestly don't know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Van_Lente

Marvel stuff mostly.

[Ryan]

Ironic.

Or just bad business decisions. The lazy way to build a comic universe is just to go out and hire a bunch of creators who seem 'hot' based on a recently successful series with no consideration to larger vision or plan. And yet the 'hottest' writer VEI hired, Justin Jordan, also produced the least popular series, Shadowman. Maybe that's just a poor way to build a universe for the long term.

Jordan was the hottest? I'd say Van Lente.

I'll admit I don't follow comics close enough to know what the exact rankings on the 'hot' chart were. I just know that Jordan had a hit for Image with Luther Strode, and that made him a semi-hot name at the time. What hits or successful series has Van Lente had? I honestly don't know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Van_Lente

Marvel stuff mostly.

Eh, I don't mean what's his bibliography. What comics did he write that were considered successful hits, meaning the sales actually went up as the series went along.

[ManofTheAtom]

Ironic.

Or just bad business decisions. The lazy way to build a comic universe is just to go out and hire a bunch of creators who seem 'hot' based on a recently successful series with no consideration to larger vision or plan. And yet the 'hottest' writer VEI hired, Justin Jordan, also produced the least popular series, Shadowman. Maybe that's just a poor way to build a universe for the long term.

Jordan was the hottest? I'd say Van Lente.

I'll admit I don't follow comics close enough to know what the exact rankings on the 'hot' chart were. I just know that Jordan had a hit for Image with Luther Strode, and that made him a semi-hot name at the time. What hits or successful series has Van Lente had? I honestly don't know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Van_Lente

Marvel stuff mostly.

Eh, I don't mean what's his bibliography. What comics did he write that were considered successful hits, meaning the sales actually went up as the series went along.

No clue.

[Ryan]

No clue.

That's what I meant by hot writer, someone who has produced a hit. Just getting writing jobs in comics might make someone an established writer, but not necessarily a hot writer.

This is in the context of the VH2 discussion, I'm pretty sure most of the writers they hired had multiple hits by the time they were hired for VH2, making them hot writers at the time.

[ManofTheAtom]

No clue.

That's what I meant by hot writer, someone who has produced a hit. Just getting writing jobs in comics might make someone an established writer, but not necessarily a hot writer.

This is in the context of the VH2 discussion, I'm pretty sure most of the writers they hired had multiple hits by the time they were hired for VH2, making them hot writers at the time.

I remember some mocking Waid for following up Kingdom Come with X-O Manowar...

[Ryan]

I remember some mocking Waid for following up Kingdom Come with X-O Manowar...

Hmm not Valiant fans I assume. Waid had done Kingdom Come, Busiek had done Marvels, Ennis had done Preacher... all 3 probably among the most successful and impactful comics of the mid-90s. It was a coup to get those guys involved with Valiant, too bad there wasn't a better vison and a better appreciation for what the fans had loved about Vh1.

[ManofTheAtom]

I remember some mocking Waid for following up Kingdom Come with X-O Manowar...

Hmm not Valiant fans I assume. Waid had done Kingdom Come, Busiek had done Marvels, Ennis had done Preacher... all 3 probably among the most successful and impactful comics of the mid-90s. It was a coup to get those guys involved with Valiant, too bad there wasn't a better vison and a better appreciation for what the fans had loved about Vh1.

Yeah. They could have worked had they done actual VALIANT comics instead of copied DC's Silver Age.

[Ryan]

I remember some mocking Waid for following up Kingdom Come with X-O Manowar...

Hmm not Valiant fans I assume. Waid had done Kingdom Come, Busiek had done Marvels, Ennis had done Preacher... all 3 probably among the most successful and impactful comics of the mid-90s. It was a coup to get those guys involved with Valiant, too bad there wasn't a better vison and a better appreciation for what the fans had loved about Vh1.

Yeah. They could have worked had they done actual VALIANT comics instead of copied DC's Silver Age.

And yet, VEI took half of their concepts directly from the VH2 versions.

[ManofTheAtom]

I remember some mocking Waid for following up Kingdom Come with X-O Manowar...

Hmm not Valiant fans I assume. Waid had done Kingdom Come, Busiek had done Marvels, Ennis had done Preacher... all 3 probably among the most successful and impactful comics of the mid-90s. It was a coup to get those guys involved with Valiant, too bad there wasn't a better vison and a better appreciation for what the fans had loved about Vh1.

Yeah. They could have worked had they done actual VALIANT comics instead of copied DC's Silver Age.

And yet, VEI took half of their concepts directly from the VH2 versions.

Nah.

[Ryan]

And yet, VEI took half of their concepts directly from the VH2 versions.

Nah.

Quantum & Woody, Bloodshot, Shadowman, Eternal Warrior- all either fully, mostly, or partially (EW) based on the VH2 versions.
X-O, Harbinger, Ninjak, A&A - fully, mostly, or partially based on the VH1 versions.

That's half of their main concepts. 4 out of 8.

[ManofTheAtom]

And yet, VEI took half of their concepts directly from the VH2 versions.

Nah.

Quantum & Woody, Bloodshot, Shadowman, Eternal Warrior- all either fully, mostly, or partially (EW) based on the VH2 versions.
X-O, Harbinger, Ninjak, A&A - fully, mostly, or partially based on the VH1 versions.

That's half of their main concepts. 4 out of 8.

Nah, VEI EW was nothing like VH 2's Warmaster. Neither were Aram or Ivar. Archer did veer off from the VH 1 version, but not as far away as VH 2.

Shadowman was not Michael Leroi. All they did was incorporate the concept of Deadside into the story.

Bloodshot likewise incorporated characters like Simon Oreck, but he was not a comic booky whale like in VH 2.

[Ryan]

And yet, VEI took half of their concepts directly from the VH2 versions.

Nah.

Quantum & Woody, Bloodshot, Shadowman, Eternal Warrior- all either fully, mostly, or partially (EW) based on the VH2 versions.
X-O, Harbinger, Ninjak, A&A - fully, mostly, or partially based on the VH1 versions.

That's half of their main concepts. 4 out of 8.

Nah, VEI EW was nothing like VH 2's Warmaster. Neither were Aram or Ivar. Archer did veer off from the VH 1 version, but not as far away as VH 2.

Shadowman was not Michael Leroi. All they did was incorporate the concept of Deadside into the story.

Bloodshot likewise incorporated characters like Simon Oreck, but he was not a comic booky whale like in VH 2.

Ok, since I haven't read EW in a long time, I'll take that one off. I thought the Boon was established in VH2 though?

Both Bloodshot and SM take much more from VH2 than VH1 for their broad concepts.

So that still makes 3 out of 8 main characters being all or mostly based on VH2 versions. Almost half.

[ManofTheAtom]

And yet, VEI took half of their concepts directly from the VH2 versions.

Nah.

Quantum & Woody, Bloodshot, Shadowman, Eternal Warrior- all either fully, mostly, or partially (EW) based on the VH2 versions.
X-O, Harbinger, Ninjak, A&A - fully, mostly, or partially based on the VH1 versions.

That's half of their main concepts. 4 out of 8.

Nah, VEI EW was nothing like VH 2's Warmaster. Neither were Aram or Ivar. Archer did veer off from the VH 1 version, but not as far away as VH 2.

Shadowman was not Michael Leroi. All they did was incorporate the concept of Deadside into the story.

Bloodshot likewise incorporated characters like Simon Oreck, but he was not a comic booky whale like in VH 2.

Ok, since I haven't read EW in a long time, I'll take that one off. I thought the Boon was established in VH2 though?

Both Bloodshot and SM take much more from VH2 than VH1 for their broad concepts.

So that still makes 3 out of 8 main characters being all or mostly based on VH2 versions. Almost half.

The Boon in VEI is not the same as the origin of the immortals in VH-2.

Shadowman took Deadside from VH-2, but it is still overall the VH-1 version at its core. With Bloodshot, he merely replaced the Italian mafia stuff from VH-1 with the military/intelligence angle.

[ManofTheAtom]

Dinesh did what Nicieza should have done from the start; infuse new ideas into the existing narrative.

Bloodshot: "I'm Angelo Mortalli, Mafia hitman who was sold out to a Japanese conglomerate after I testified against the Don to be experimented on -- holy crap, no I'm not! I'm actually Raymond Garrison, a US special forces soldier (or whatever the hell he is), and I was experimented on by an American weapons manufacturer to test out their new nanite technology!" or whatever the proper phrasing might be.

That's the kind of rug pulling Bloodshot needed (or, alternatively, the introduction of Raymond Garrison as a new Bloodshot after Angelo died at the end of issue #51).

With Shadowman, after Jack jumped off the building he could have awoken in Deadside, an afterlife he had no idea existed because neither Nettie nor Darque every brought it up until that moment. He wakes up there, finds out he's dead, and has to decide whether he wants to stay or return to life.

That is how it works when old comics grow stale. Whether it's the above examples, or someone like Johns introducing different versions of power rings and corps in the Green Lantern comic book.

That's one way Nicieza could have chosen to do it instead of a reboot.

What Dinesh chose to do was take what was there and introduce such things as Deadside and Raymond Garrison from the onset, and there was nothing wrong with it.

[Ryan]

The Boon in VEI is not the same as the origin of the immortals in VH-2.

Shadowman took Deadside from VH-2, but it is still overall the VH-1 version at its core. With Bloodshot, he merely replaced the Italian mafia stuff from VH-1 with the military/intelligence angle.

The origin of the Immortals in VEI is much more similar to VH2 than VH1.

There is no Deadside and very little pure fantasy in VH1 Shadowman. VH2 and VEI Shadowman both use Deadside and a much more Voodoo Fantasy. Visually VEI SM is also more similar to VH2 SM. VH1 SM is Creole, VH2 and VEI are not.