Alien looking to sell direct to consumer

[Chiclo]

The companies are different, yes. How similar are their mistakes?

Not sure what you mean by "mistakes".

Maybe you know them by the name f@uck ups of which they have plenty

Having recently read all the VALIANT stuff I had missed, I didn't really see any mistake or *SQUEE* ups.

Other than for Harbinger Wars II very blatantly changing creative direction, it's all seemed to flow fairly well from start to finish.

Yeah, that's the VEI run. Harbinger Wars II was the first thing DMG did and the first sign of the dark period we are in where everything is poor quality

I'm including Alien and DMG. Other than for the change in direction with HWII, the narrative has continued to be consistent from the first issue of X-O to Resurgence Finale.

Please define “consistent.”

Perhaps the stories have been editorially consistent. I would not describe the quality of these stories as consistent. The quality of those stories have ebbed and flowed during the entire Valiant revival. The DMG era was very much characterised by an overall ebb in quality.

[ManofTheAtom]

Not sure what you mean by "mistakes".

Maybe you know them by the name f@uck ups of which they have plenty

Having recently read all the VALIANT stuff I had missed, I didn't really see any mistake or *SQUEE* ups.

Other than for Harbinger Wars II very blatantly changing creative direction, it's all seemed to flow fairly well from start to finish.

Yeah, that's the VEI run. Harbinger Wars II was the first thing DMG did and the first sign of the dark period we are in where everything is poor quality

I'm including Alien and DMG. Other than for the change in direction with HWII, the narrative has continued to be consistent from the first issue of X-O to Resurgence Finale.

Please define “consistent.”

Perhaps the stories have been editorially consistent. I would not describe the quality of these stories as consistent. The quality of those stories have ebbed and flowed during the entire Valiant revival. The DMG era was very much characterised by an overall ebb in quality.

I honestly don't recall any variation in the quality of the narrative since the transition.

Do you have any specific examples that jumped out at you?

Maybe what people are noticing is a difference in the style of the comics Dinesh oversaw to the ones Antos oversaw to the ones Hawkins oversaw.

Were they all winners? No. The Harbinger could have been better and I'd say it was the weakest that comes to mind, but was it as bad as past VALIANT comics have been? Nah.

[syzhang28]

Maybe you know them by the name f@uck ups of which they have plenty

Having recently read all the VALIANT stuff I had missed, I didn't really see any mistake or *SQUEE* ups.

Other than for Harbinger Wars II very blatantly changing creative direction, it's all seemed to flow fairly well from start to finish.

Yeah, that's the VEI run. Harbinger Wars II was the first thing DMG did and the first sign of the dark period we are in where everything is poor quality

I'm including Alien and DMG. Other than for the change in direction with HWII, the narrative has continued to be consistent from the first issue of X-O to Resurgence Finale.

Please define “consistent.”

Perhaps the stories have been editorially consistent. I would not describe the quality of these stories as consistent. The quality of those stories have ebbed and flowed during the entire Valiant revival. The DMG era was very much characterised by an overall ebb in quality.

I honestly don't recall any variation in the quality of the narrative since the transition.

Do you have any specific examples that jumped out at you?

Maybe what people are noticing is a difference in the style of the comics Dinesh oversaw to the ones Antos oversaw to the ones Hawkins oversaw.

Were they all winners? No. The Harbinger could have been better and I'd say it was the weakest that comes to mind, but was it as bad as past VALIANT comics have been? Nah.

You just have bad taste

[ManofTheAtom]

Having recently read all the VALIANT stuff I had missed, I didn't really see any mistake or *SQUEE* ups.

Other than for Harbinger Wars II very blatantly changing creative direction, it's all seemed to flow fairly well from start to finish.

Yeah, that's the VEI run. Harbinger Wars II was the first thing DMG did and the first sign of the dark period we are in where everything is poor quality

I'm including Alien and DMG. Other than for the change in direction with HWII, the narrative has continued to be consistent from the first issue of X-O to Resurgence Finale.

Please define “consistent.”

Perhaps the stories have been editorially consistent. I would not describe the quality of these stories as consistent. The quality of those stories have ebbed and flowed during the entire Valiant revival. The DMG era was very much characterised by an overall ebb in quality.

I honestly don't recall any variation in the quality of the narrative since the transition.

Do you have any specific examples that jumped out at you?

Maybe what people are noticing is a difference in the style of the comics Dinesh oversaw to the ones Antos oversaw to the ones Hawkins oversaw.

Were they all winners? No. The Harbinger could have been better and I'd say it was the weakest that comes to mind, but was it as bad as past VALIANT comics have been? Nah.

You just have bad taste

I asked Chiclo for examples of mistakes VALIANT made during the Antos and Hawkins era, and instead of providing them you respond with ad hominem *SQUEE*. That leads me to conclude that there are no such examples.

[Chiclo]

Off the top of my head, I’d say the worst of the worst was Psi-Lords. DMG could not ruin the major properties fast enough around 2020 to 2022, X-O actually was DC-lite trying to be Booster Gold, Harbinger and Shadowman were confused messes. The Bloodshot series published right after the movie was bad and the squandered oppourtunity made it worse. Savage and Armorclads and the Harbinger were just disappointing. What was the one with the potato car? Was that an A&A or Livewire? It is getting hard to remember. There were some books I remember well, like Abnett’s Rai.

[ManofTheAtom]

Off the top of my head, I’d say the worst of the worst was Psi-Lords. DMG could not ruin the major properties fast enough around 2020 to 2022, X-O actually was DC-lite trying to be Booster Gold, Harbinger and Shadowman were confused messes. The Bloodshot series published right after the movie was bad and the squandered oppourtunity made it worse. Savage and Armorclads and the Harbinger were just disappointing. What was the one with the potato car? Was that an A&A or Livewire? It is getting hard to remember. There were some books I remember well, like Abnett’s Rai.

Okay, in order.

I for one thought Psi-Lord was really good in terms of worldbuilding. Yeah, it is lamentable that it no longer takes place in the 41st Century and the Green Lantering of it doesn't really work, but other than that the rest was great and really worked.

The Hopeless run on X-O I think it was did have vibes of X-O Bike-style tone. While the idea was good, the execution didn't really quite live up to it. There was a lot to like, such as Aric vs the warlord I think it was, and the rich guy, but how it unfolded didn't really fit the VALIANT tone.

By Harbinger you must mean The Harbinger since the last series was Renegades, which Dinesh oversaw (unless I'm missing one). I've already posted my thoughts on that.

I thought the Diggle (sp?) Shadowman series was fantastic. I really liked the worldbuilding that went into defining the Shadowman loa.

The second Savage series was indeed crap and failed to match the first one. Like with X-O that boiled down to a matter of tone, really.

Which one was the Bloodshot series? The one by the writer of Underworld? That one didn't quite work.

Armorclads had potential, but, again, it was a matter of tone.

I don't recall the potato car.

[syzhang28]

Off the top of my head, I’d say the worst of the worst was Psi-Lords. DMG could not ruin the major properties fast enough around 2020 to 2022, X-O actually was DC-lite trying to be Booster Gold, Harbinger and Shadowman were confused messes. The Bloodshot series published right after the movie was bad and the squandered oppourtunity made it worse. Savage and Armorclads and the Harbinger were just disappointing. What was the one with the potato car? Was that an A&A or Livewire? It is getting hard to remember. There were some books I remember well, like Abnett’s Rai.

Okay, in order.

I for one thought Psi-Lord was really good in terms of worldbuilding. Yeah, it is lamentable that it no longer takes place in the 41st Century and the Green Lantering of it doesn't really work, but other than that the rest was great and really worked.

The Hopeless run on X-O I think it was did have vibes of X-O Bike-style tone. While the idea was good, the execution didn't really quite live up to it. There was a lot to like, such as Aric vs the warlord I think it was, and the rich guy, but how it unfolded didn't really fit the VALIANT tone.

By Harbinger you must mean The Harbinger since the last series was Renegades, which Dinesh oversaw (unless I'm missing one). I've already posted my thoughts on that.

I thought the Diggle (sp?) Shadowman series was fantastic. I really liked the worldbuilding that went into defining the Shadowman loa.

The second Savage series was indeed crap and failed to match the first one. Like with X-O that boiled down to a matter of tone, really.

Which one was the Bloodshot series? The one by the writer of Underworld? That one didn't quite work.

Armorclads had potential, but, again, it was a matter of tone.

I don't recall the potato car.

Psi-lord was trash. Don't forget the world building you like so much was done by Dinesh and his team. They were seeding those ideas in x-o manowar for over a year.

X-O is the ultimate test of anyone trying to run Valiant. OG VH1 did it well under Shooter, Layton and Windsor-Smith. Acclaim's run was a crime against comics. If I remember correctly, you were heavily advocating for it not to be the launch of VEI. Something about it had its chance to anchor the universe and failed. Then Dinesh proved you emphatically wrong but not just making it great and the anchor to the universe but making it one of the best independent runs in decades. All with a writer making his debut writing an ongoing. DMG, Alien etc are failed miserable to make good X-O books. The tone is very hard. The character is so easily misunderstood.

He means the Kelly and Lanzing debacle that was Harbinger.

Diggle Shadowman was Dinesh. One of the things his team put together but that came out right after he was pushed out. Just like Life and Death of Toyo Harada.

Savage was meant to be completely different but, again after Dinesh was pushed out, they changed it and it was crap.

Every Bloodshot since VEI has been bad.

Armorclads might be a crime against humanity. Zero potential. It's derivative, uninspired, clearly put together by corporate forces. The worst type of comics.

You don't recall the potato car because you haven't really read that much. It's impossible to miss. I remember the days when Dinesh & VEI were in charge and Valiant was absolutely crushing it to the point where the potato car and Dead Drop were huge issues. Today, those would be bright spots.

[ManofTheAtom]

X-O is the ultimate test of anyone trying to run Valiant. OG VH1 did it well under Shooter, Layton and Windsor-Smith. Acclaim's run was a crime against comics. If I remember correctly, you were heavily advocating for it not to be the launch of VEI. Something about it had its chance to anchor the universe and failed. Then Dinesh proved you emphatically wrong but not just making it great and the anchor to the universe but making it one of the best independent runs in decades. All with a writer making his debut writing an ongoing. DMG, Alien etc are failed miserable to make good X-O books. The tone is very hard. The character is so easily misunderstood.

With prior consent and permission from Dinesh I can say that I was allowed to offer my thoughts on the script for the first issue of X-O Manowar while it was being written (it may have been for more than just the first, but I don't recall off-hand).

I remember suggesting that when the Vine capture Aric he take a shard of the broken sword so he can specifically use it to break free of his bonds. Since he, of course, would have no idea that that would be its intended use, it can be said that from his perspective he was taking it to use as a weapon period.

Dinesh once told me, though I don't specifically recall if that's right, that I also suggested that Gilad be present during the battle depicted in the first issue. It sounds like something I would suggest since the two of them knowing each other before Aric was taken by the Spider-Aliens was a thing in VH-1.

Since Dinesh and I tended to be on agreement on a lot of things that worked about VH-1, and given how important their prior connection was to subsequent issues, I am hesitant to take full credit for it (though it would be cool to do).

[Ryan]

No, Alien Books is not DMG in disguise, they are a separate company that licensed the VALIANT characters FROM DMG to make comics, the same way Voyager licensed Solar, Magnus, and Turok from Random House/Classic Media.

Voyager licensed the characters directly from Western Publishing, one of the most successful publishers of the 20th century. It wasn't until Western Publishing declared bankruptcy in 2001 that their character library was acquired by Random House Publishing. And now after several mergers over the years they're in the Dreamworks Classics (NBC) character property library.

[ManofTheAtom]

No, Alien Books is not DMG in disguise, they are a separate company that licensed the VALIANT characters FROM DMG to make comics, the same way Voyager licensed Solar, Magnus, and Turok from Random House/Classic Media.

Voyager licensed the characters directly from Western Publishing, one of the most successful publishers of the 20th century. It wasn't until Western Publishing declared bankruptcy in 2001 that their character library was acquired by Random House Publishing. And now after several mergers over the years they're in the Dreamworks Classics (NBC) character property library.

Ok.

[Ryan]

No, Alien Books is not DMG in disguise, they are a separate company that licensed the VALIANT characters FROM DMG to make comics, the same way Voyager licensed Solar, Magnus, and Turok from Random House/Classic Media.

Voyager licensed the characters directly from Western Publishing, one of the most successful publishers of the 20th century. It wasn't until Western Publishing declared bankruptcy in 2001 that their character library was acquired by Random House Publishing. And now after several mergers over the years they're in the Dreamworks Classics (NBC) character property library.

Ok.

So they're two very different situations. If you're going to try to make the comparison between Voyager-Western and the DMG-Alien relationship you should know the history, because there's very little in common.

[ManofTheAtom]

No, Alien Books is not DMG in disguise, they are a separate company that licensed the VALIANT characters FROM DMG to make comics, the same way Voyager licensed Solar, Magnus, and Turok from Random House/Classic Media.

Voyager licensed the characters directly from Western Publishing, one of the most successful publishers of the 20th century. It wasn't until Western Publishing declared bankruptcy in 2001 that their character library was acquired by Random House Publishing. And now after several mergers over the years they're in the Dreamworks Classics (NBC) character property library.

Ok.

So they're two very different situations. If you're going to try to make the comparison between Voyager-Western and the DMG-Alien relationship you should know the history, because there's very little in common.

It is the same situation, actually.

Back then it was Voyager licensing Western Publishing's IP to produce new comics, today it is Alien Books licensing DMG's IP to make new comics. It's exactly the same, even downright to the licensee rebooting the licensor's characters (back then Voyager/VALIANT rebooted Solar, today Alien is rebooting all of them).

[Ryan]

It is the same situation, actually.

Back then it was Voyager licensing Western Publishing's IP to produce new comics, today it is Alien Books licensing DMG's IP to make new comics. It's exactly the same, even downright to the licensee rebooting the licensor's characters (back then Voyager/VALIANT rebooted Solar, today Alien is rebooting all of them).

It's only the same on the most superficial, basic level. Beyond that, they're very different situations.

[ManofTheAtom]

It is the same situation, actually.

Back then it was Voyager licensing Western Publishing's IP to produce new comics, today it is Alien Books licensing DMG's IP to make new comics. It's exactly the same, even downright to the licensee rebooting the licensor's characters (back then Voyager/VALIANT rebooted Solar, today Alien is rebooting all of them).

It's only the same on the most superficial, basic level. Beyond that, they're very different situations.

Not really. Any company could have licensed the characters from DMG. Alien was the one that got them. The only distinction is that they also hired the staff from VALIANT, like Ward, Black, Hawkins, and others (all of whom I believe are gone now).

[Chiclo]

Valiant characters were in publication by the previous publisher right up to the time Alien took over publishing.

The last issues of Dr Solar, Magnus and Turok were printed what, 9, 10 years before Magnus 1.

[ManofTheAtom]

Valiant characters were in publication by the previous publisher right up to the time Alien took over publishing.

The last issues of Dr Solar, Magnus and Turok were printed what, 9, 10 years before Magnus 1.

Alien took over publication immediately from DMG. That doesn't mean they're the same company owned by the same people. Casanova is not what's-his-name in a Scooby-Doo villain mask.

Alien existed before they published VALIANT comics and, if they can survive Diamond's fall, can continue to exist even after they stop licensing them from DMG.

[Ryan]

Valiant characters were in publication by the previous publisher right up to the time Alien took over publishing.

The last issues of Dr Solar, Magnus and Turok were printed what, 9, 10 years before Magnus 1.

That's just one major difference. And even those early 80's GK(Whitman) comics were a short-lived failed attempt at a revival. The last Russ Manning Magnus issue was in 1968 and the last true GK Solar issue was in 1969.

Turok was the only one that continued through the 70s and had an amazingly long run. Which is why I've always thought the GK versions should have just been continued and modernized like Magnus.

I still have no idea what Alien comics did before doing Valiant that was a big success in the comics market. All I can see are a few random indie books that had zero impact in the N. American market. I agree with what nycjadie said:

Alien Books. Have you tried googling Alien Comics? How can you even find them? It takes work. It's a terrible brand. So bad, that they have no SEO, even in the comics world. It might be, from a distinctiveness perspective, one of the worst existing comic brands. If i bought them, I'd change the name. Nobody will miss it.

The change at Alien was much more apparent in terms of creator experience and overall storyline. I therefore do not separate DMG from VEI. However, for Alien it's a sharp change.

[ManofTheAtom]

DMG purchased VALIANT the same way Acclaim did Voyager.

Alien hired the people that worked at VALIANT the same way Acclaim hired the same people who worked at Voyager.

A distinction between Alien and Acclaim is that Acclaim also owned the IP while Alien licenses it from DMG.

That does not mean Alien and DMG are the same.

There is more truth in the argument that Alien is the same as VALIANT/VEI given they had the same employees and that, for all intents and purposes, the latter turned into the former in a way.

[syzhang28]

X-O is the ultimate test of anyone trying to run Valiant. OG VH1 did it well under Shooter, Layton and Windsor-Smith. Acclaim's run was a crime against comics. If I remember correctly, you were heavily advocating for it not to be the launch of VEI. Something about it had its chance to anchor the universe and failed. Then Dinesh proved you emphatically wrong but not just making it great and the anchor to the universe but making it one of the best independent runs in decades. All with a writer making his debut writing an ongoing. DMG, Alien etc are failed miserable to make good X-O books. The tone is very hard. The character is so easily misunderstood.

With prior consent and permission from Dinesh I can say that I was allowed to offer my thoughts on the script for the first issue of X-O Manowar while it was being written (it may have been for more than just the first, but I don't recall off-hand).

I remember suggesting that when the Vine capture Aric he take a shard of the broken sword so he can specifically use it to break free of his bonds. Since he, of course, would have no idea that that would be its intended use, it can be said that from his perspective he was taking it to use as a weapon period.

Dinesh once told me, though I don't specifically recall if that's right, that I also suggested that Gilad be present during the battle depicted in the first issue. It sounds like something I would suggest since the two of them knowing each other before Aric was taken by the Spider-Aliens was a thing in VH-1.

Since Dinesh and I tended to be on agreement on a lot of things that worked about VH-1, and given how important their prior connection was to subsequent issues, I am hesitant to take full credit for it (though it would be cool to do).

Wonderful! And thank you for two great ideas that were added to the valiant lore. Nice work

[ManofTheAtom]

X-O is the ultimate test of anyone trying to run Valiant. OG VH1 did it well under Shooter, Layton and Windsor-Smith. Acclaim's run was a crime against comics. If I remember correctly, you were heavily advocating for it not to be the launch of VEI. Something about it had its chance to anchor the universe and failed. Then Dinesh proved you emphatically wrong but not just making it great and the anchor to the universe but making it one of the best independent runs in decades. All with a writer making his debut writing an ongoing. DMG, Alien etc are failed miserable to make good X-O books. The tone is very hard. The character is so easily misunderstood.

With prior consent and permission from Dinesh I can say that I was allowed to offer my thoughts on the script for the first issue of X-O Manowar while it was being written (it may have been for more than just the first, but I don't recall off-hand).

I remember suggesting that when the Vine capture Aric he take a shard of the broken sword so he can specifically use it to break free of his bonds. Since he, of course, would have no idea that that would be its intended use, it can be said that from his perspective he was taking it to use as a weapon period.

Dinesh once told me, though I don't specifically recall if that's right, that I also suggested that Gilad be present during the battle depicted in the first issue. It sounds like something I would suggest since the two of them knowing each other before Aric was taken by the Spider-Aliens was a thing in VH-1.

Since Dinesh and I tended to be on agreement on a lot of things that worked about VH-1, and given how important their prior connection was to subsequent issues, I am hesitant to take full credit for it (though it would be cool to do).

Wonderful! And thank you for two great ideas that were added to the valiant lore. Nice work

No problem.

I was also the one who suggested that Mary-Maria give Archer his journal.

[magnusr]

I was also the one who suggested that Mary-Maria give Archer his journal.

Cool

/Magnus

[ManofTheAtom]

I was also the one who suggested that Mary-Maria give Archer his journal.

Cool

/Magnus

Thanks.

[Cyberstrike]

No, Alien Books is not DMG in disguise, they are a separate company that licensed the VALIANT characters FROM DMG to make comics, the same way Voyager licensed Solar, Magnus, and Turok from Random House/Classic Media.

Voyager licensed the characters directly from Western Publishing, one of the most successful publishers of the 20th century. It wasn't until Western Publishing declared bankruptcy in 2001 that their character library was acquired by Random House Publishing. And now after several mergers over the years they're in the Dreamworks Classics (NBC) character property library.

Ok.

Think of the GK3 like Star Trek or Transformers the owners of IP license them to whoever they want for as long a certain amount of time/sales requirement. They might have certain rules of what you can do major characters (Captain Kirk or Optimus Prime) but more freedom with secondary characters (Detmer or Sunstreaker). It's pretty much the same thing with the GK3 now of days and even back VH-1 days Dr. Solar, Man of Atom was a entirely different character than Valiant's Solar: Man of Atom was.

[Chiclo]

No, Alien Books is not DMG in disguise, they are a separate company that licensed the VALIANT characters FROM DMG to make comics, the same way Voyager licensed Solar, Magnus, and Turok from Random House/Classic Media.

Voyager licensed the characters directly from Western Publishing, one of the most successful publishers of the 20th century. It wasn't until Western Publishing declared bankruptcy in 2001 that their character library was acquired by Random House Publishing. And now after several mergers over the years they're in the Dreamworks Classics (NBC) character property library.

Ok.

Think of the GK3 like Star Trek or Transformers the owners of IP license them to whoever they want for as long a certain amount of time/sales requirement. They might have certain rules of what you can do major characters (Captain Kirk or Optimus Prime) but more freedom with secondary characters (Detmer or Sunstreaker). It's pretty much the same thing with the GK3 now of days and even back VH-1 days Dr. Solar, Man of Atom was a entirely different character than Valiant's Solar: Man of Atom was.

What does Star Trek have to do with Detmer?

[TimeWillTell]

Just to clarify. I was never hired by Alien. Only Lysa and Dani were brought on board at Alien.

Hope everyone is doing well. It's been a long time since I posted here.

WB