Iconic game publisher Acclaim has been resurrected, with wrestler Jeff Jarrett as advisor

[ManofTheAtom]

Iconic game publisher Acclaim has been resurrected, with wrestler Jeff Jarrett as advisor

[Chiclo]

Maybe they can help Alien get Valiant back on track.

[ManofTheAtom]

Maybe they can help Alien get Valiant back on track.

There's a something here about a WWE wrestler saving Acclaim when VALIANT began with publishing WWE comics...

[Ryan]

Maybe they can help Alien get Valiant back on track.

There's a something here about a WWE wrestler saving Acclaim when VALIANT began with publishing WWE comics...

Lol that is pretty ironic.

It reminds me of the guy who's publishing Gold Key Comics now. The brand is cool and all, but how much is it really worth without all of the properties and licenses?

[ManofTheAtom]

Maybe they can help Alien get Valiant back on track.

There's a something here about a WWE wrestler saving Acclaim when VALIANT began with publishing WWE comics...

Lol that is pretty ironic.

It reminds me of the guy who's publishing Gold Key Comics now. The brand is cool and all, but how much is it really worth without all of the properties and licenses?

For sure. Maybe they're waiting for the characters to become available. It's been a while since Dynamite's done anything with them, no?

Has anyone contacted them to find out if they have any plans for that?

[Ryan]

Maybe they can help Alien get Valiant back on track.

There's a something here about a WWE wrestler saving Acclaim when VALIANT began with publishing WWE comics...

Lol that is pretty ironic.

It reminds me of the guy who's publishing Gold Key Comics now. The brand is cool and all, but how much is it really worth without all of the properties and licenses?

For sure. Maybe they're waiting for the characters to become available. It's been a while since Dynamite's done anything with them, no?

Has anyone contacted them to find out if they have any plans for that?

I'm not sure, looks like they (new GK) have done two successful kickstarters with a new Boris Karloff comic and one in the style of GK funny animal comics.

That's cool that they're trying to remain true to the tone of GK. Other than that, I have no idea what their plans are.

[ManofTheAtom]

Maybe they can help Alien get Valiant back on track.

There's a something here about a WWE wrestler saving Acclaim when VALIANT began with publishing WWE comics...

Lol that is pretty ironic.

It reminds me of the guy who's publishing Gold Key Comics now. The brand is cool and all, but how much is it really worth without all of the properties and licenses?

For sure. Maybe they're waiting for the characters to become available. It's been a while since Dynamite's done anything with them, no?

Has anyone contacted them to find out if they have any plans for that?

I'm not sure, looks like they (new GK) have done two successful kickstarters with a new Boris Karloff comic and one in the style of GK funny animal comics.

That's cool that they're trying to remain true to the tone of GK. Other than that, I have no idea what their plans are.

Indeed. Might even be dormant for now.

[Ryan]

Indeed. Might even be dormant for now.

It doesn't seem like they're preparing to do a full super hero universe launch, but who knows. I'd love to see those characters back closer to their original versions.

[ManofTheAtom]

Indeed. Might even be dormant for now.

It doesn't seem like they're preparing to do a full super hero universe launch, but who knows. I'd love to see those characters back closer to their original versions.

If done right it could work. Dark Horse's Magnus was close to the original and it wasn't that good. The VALIANT versions were certainly superior.

[Ryan]

Indeed. Might even be dormant for now.

It doesn't seem like they're preparing to do a full super hero universe launch, but who knows. I'd love to see those characters back closer to their original versions.

If done right it could work. Dark Horse's Magnus was close to the original and it wasn't that good. The VALIANT versions were certainly superior.

For sure, it would have to be a blending of the old with the new like the Valiant versions were. DH versions had some bright spots but could've been better I agree.

The Dynamite and other versions change so much in an effort to 'modernize' that they're barely recognizable. At that point, why even bother to license the name, just make a new character.

[ManofTheAtom]

Indeed. Might even be dormant for now.

It doesn't seem like they're preparing to do a full super hero universe launch, but who knows. I'd love to see those characters back closer to their original versions.

If done right it could work. Dark Horse's Magnus was close to the original and it wasn't that good. The VALIANT versions were certainly superior.

For sure, it would have to be a blending of the old with the new like the Valiant versions were. DH versions had some bright spots but could've been better I agree.

The Dynamite and other versions change so much in an effort to 'modernize' that they're barely recognizable. At that point, why even bother to license the name, just make a new character.

Indeed. I think the Dynamite versions suffered from having to try to modernize the '60s original, and it just didn't work.

[Ryan]

Indeed. I think the Dynamite versions suffered from having to try to modernize the '60s original, and it just didn't work.

Agreed. It's not an easy thing to pull off. Revivals of any old niche characters aren't easy to pull off. Shooter did it perfectly once with Magnus and Solar, but even he couldn't duplicate that success with the same characters.

[ManofTheAtom]

Indeed. I think the Dynamite versions suffered from having to try to modernize the '60s original, and it just didn't work.

Agreed. It's not an easy thing to pull off. Revivals of any old niche characters aren't easy to pull off. Shooter did it perfectly once with Magnus and Solar, but even he couldn't duplicate that success with the same characters.

Remember that he got the initial idea for the Solar reboot from Layton. It was a team effort.

Layton had similar problems with Future Comics, which were too Silver Agey.

[Ryan]

Indeed. I think the Dynamite versions suffered from having to try to modernize the '60s original, and it just didn't work.

Agreed. It's not an easy thing to pull off. Revivals of any old niche characters aren't easy to pull off. Shooter did it perfectly once with Magnus and Solar, but even he couldn't duplicate that success with the same characters.

Remember that he got the initial idea for the Solar reboot from Layton. It was a team effort.

Layton had similar problems with Future Comics, which were too Silver Agey.

Definitely a team effort. None of them (Shooter, Layton, or BWS) were ever able to duplicate their success after Valiant.

But imo Shooter was the driving force behind those comics, and Shooter was the one who grew up as a fan of GK. His writing always shows great respect for the original GK stories, and that he'd read them very closely.

As soon as Shooter left, Layton destroyed North Am and turned Magnus into a pretty generic sci-fi post-apocalyptic story, losing all of the retro charm of Russ Manning's world.

Reading Solar A&O some of the bits and humor feel like BWS to me. So I give him a lot of credit too since his concepts and ideas also had a big impact on early Valiant beyond just his beautiful illustrations.

[ManofTheAtom]

Indeed. I think the Dynamite versions suffered from having to try to modernize the '60s original, and it just didn't work.

Agreed. It's not an easy thing to pull off. Revivals of any old niche characters aren't easy to pull off. Shooter did it perfectly once with Magnus and Solar, but even he couldn't duplicate that success with the same characters.

Remember that he got the initial idea for the Solar reboot from Layton. It was a team effort.

Layton had similar problems with Future Comics, which were too Silver Agey.

Definitely a team effort. None of them (Shooter, Layton, or BWS) were ever able to duplicate their success after Valiant.

But imo Shooter was the driving force behind those comics, and Shooter was the one who grew up as a fan of GK. His writing always shows great respect for the original GK stories, and that he'd read them very closely.

As soon as Shooter left, Layton destroyed North Am and turned Magnus into a pretty generic sci-fi post-apocalyptic story, losing all of the retro charm of Russ Manning's world.

Reading Solar A&O some of the bits and humor feel like BWS to me. So I give him a lot of credit too since his concepts and ideas also had a big impact on early Valiant beyond just his beautiful illustrations.

I had no problem with Malev War. It really opened up the world of 4001 and changed the tone into something more serious.

[Ryan]

I had no problem with Malev War. It really opened up the world of 4001 and changed the tone into something more serious.

Fair enough, that's a different debate though. More generic doesn't necessarily mean worse, just that it was more like other sci-fi stories and less like Russ Manning's Magnus.

They intentionally discarded a lot of the uniqueness of Manning's North Am. And I get it, Layton wanted to 'modernize' the setting and get rid of the retro elements.

People may agree or disagree with Layton on that point, but my point is that it shows that he wasn't the one who had the love for the GK properties (at least Magnus). The evidence in the comics shows that Shooter was the one who revered them, and wanted to preserve as much as he could from the original comics while modernizing them.

[ManofTheAtom]

I had no problem with Malev War. It really opened up the world of 4001 and changed the tone into something more serious.

Fair enough, that's a different debate though. More generic doesn't necessarily mean worse, just that it was more like other sci-fi stories and less like Russ Manning's Magnus.

They intentionally discarded a lot of the uniqueness of Manning's North Am. And I get it, Layton wanted to 'modernize' the setting and get rid of the retro elements.

People may agree or disagree with Layton on that point, but my point is that it shows that he wasn't the one who had the love for the GK properties (at least Magnus). The evidence in the comics shows that Shooter was the one who revered them, and wanted to preserve as much as he could from the original comics while modernizing them.

I'm reminded of something Giffen said when he took over Magnus in which he compared it to Krypton.

I couldn't really understand what he meant since, at the time, Krypton was based on the version from Byrne's The Man of Steel reboot and looked nothing at all like North Am.

In time, as I studied more about the comics of the '60s, I realized that Giffen wasn't comparing North Am to the then-current version of Krypton but, rather, to the one from the '50s and '60s, which, in turn, was based on the aesthetics of the planet Mongo from the old Flash Gordon serials.

So, ultimately, while at a glance North Am as designed by Manning may look unique, if someone like Giffen can compare it to the Silver Age Krypton -- which, in turn, is comparable to the Flash Gordon serials -- maybe it wasn't so much after all and, in fact, it may have been even more generic of 1950s and 1930s science fiction that it may seem.

[Ryan]

I'm reminded of something Giffen said when he took over Magnus in which he compared it to Krypton.

I couldn't really understand what he meant since, at the time, Krypton was based on the version from Byrne's The Man of Steel reboot and looked nothing at all like North Am.

In time, as I studied more about the comics of the '60s, I realized that Giffen wasn't comparing North Am to the then-current version of Krypton but, rather, to the one from the '50s and '60s, which, in turn, was based on the aesthetics of the planet Mongo from the old Flash Gordon serials.

So, ultimately, while at a glance North Am as designed by Manning may look unique, if someone like Giffen can compare it to the Silver Age Krypton -- which, in turn, is comparable to the Flash Gordon serials -- maybe it wasn't so much after all and, in fact, it may have been even more generic of 1950s and 1930s science fiction that it may seem.

Definitely, it was unique for the 90s because it was retro, not because it was unique in all of sci-fi. Manning's North Am is very much inspired by Flash Gordon and other sci-fi comics, pulps, and novels from the 30s-50s.

What made Valiant's Magnus unique was that Shooter kept the retro future setting and kept the continuity while making it more logical and realistic. That was unique for the 90s because no one was doing the retro future/Flash Gordon-type setting for sci-fi anymore. When Layton took over he turned it into a more 90's style post-apocalyptic sci-fi setting, that was more popular at the time yes but also everywhere and thus more generic.

[ManofTheAtom]

I'm reminded of something Giffen said when he took over Magnus in which he compared it to Krypton.

I couldn't really understand what he meant since, at the time, Krypton was based on the version from Byrne's The Man of Steel reboot and looked nothing at all like North Am.

In time, as I studied more about the comics of the '60s, I realized that Giffen wasn't comparing North Am to the then-current version of Krypton but, rather, to the one from the '50s and '60s, which, in turn, was based on the aesthetics of the planet Mongo from the old Flash Gordon serials.

So, ultimately, while at a glance North Am as designed by Manning may look unique, if someone like Giffen can compare it to the Silver Age Krypton -- which, in turn, is comparable to the Flash Gordon serials -- maybe it wasn't so much after all and, in fact, it may have been even more generic of 1950s and 1930s science fiction that it may seem.

Definitely, it was unique for the 90s because it was retro, not because it was unique in all of sci-fi. Manning's North Am is very much inspired by Flash Gordon and other sci-fi comics, pulps, and novels from the 30s-50s.

What made Valiant's Magnus unique was that Shooter kept the retro future setting and kept the continuity while making it more logical and realistic. That was unique for the 90s because no one was doing the retro future/Flash Gordon-type setting for sci-fi anymore. When Layton took over he turned it into a more 90's style post-apocalyptic sci-fi setting, that was more popular at the time yes but also everywhere and thus more generic.

Sure.

What came after Malev War, though, made it worth it. it's not like it stayed post-apocalyptic, and it's also not how it went back. The invasion served as a way to truly modernize the retro look into something more futuristic based on the then-present as opposed to when it was conceived in the '60s.

We agree that the '60s aesthetics of both Magnus and Superman were ripped off from Flash Gordon. Likewise, the aesthetics in Byrne's reboot of the latter and VALIANT's post-Malev War of the former made those truly unique to their respective worlds.

It was the first time people had designed Superman's and Magnus' worlds with an eye toward them rather than to copy what Flash Gordon had done.

[Ryan]

Sure.

What came after Malev War, though, made it worth it. it's not like it stayed post-apocalyptic, and it's also not how it went back. The invasion served as a way to truly modernize the retro look into something more futuristic based on the then-present as opposed to when it was conceived in the '60s.

We agree that the '60s aesthetics of both Magnus and Superman were ripped off from Flash Gordon. Likewise, the aesthetics in Byrne's reboot of the latter and VALIANT's post-Malev War of the former made those truly unique to their respective worlds.

It was the first time people had designed Superman's and Magnus' worlds with an eye toward them rather than to copy what Flash Gordon had done.

I understand all of that, that's not what I'm debating though. All I'm saying is that those choices made it obvious (to me) that Shooter was the one who revered Gold Key Magnus. If Layton had been the one in charge from Magnus #1, he would have just updated it to a more 'modern' 90s future from the beginning. It was Shooter who kept the retrofuturism of Manning, and that was a big factor that made Magnus unique in the 90's.

[Ryan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrofuturism

Retrofuturism (adjective retrofuturistic or retrofuture) is a movement in the creative arts showing the influence of depictions of the future produced in an earlier era.

One of the many artists that obviously influenced Manning in creating Magnus' world:
Ed Valigursky's Pulp and book covers from the 1950s


Amazing Stories Pulp Feb 1956

[ManofTheAtom]

Sure.

What came after Malev War, though, made it worth it. it's not like it stayed post-apocalyptic, and it's also not how it went back. The invasion served as a way to truly modernize the retro look into something more futuristic based on the then-present as opposed to when it was conceived in the '60s.

We agree that the '60s aesthetics of both Magnus and Superman were ripped off from Flash Gordon. Likewise, the aesthetics in Byrne's reboot of the latter and VALIANT's post-Malev War of the former made those truly unique to their respective worlds.

It was the first time people had designed Superman's and Magnus' worlds with an eye toward them rather than to copy what Flash Gordon had done.

I understand all of that, that's not what I'm debating though. All I'm saying is that those choices made it obvious (to me) that Shooter was the one who revered Gold Key Magnus. If Layton had been the one in charge from Magnus #1, he would have just updated it to a more 'modern' 90s future from the beginning. It was Shooter who kept the retrofuturism of Manning, and that was a big factor that made Magnus unique in the 90's.

Sure. But when Shooter did it alone at Dark Horse, the writing was just not as good even if the art looked the same. Something -- or someone -- was missing.

[Ryan]

Sure. But when Shooter did it alone at Dark Horse, the writing was just not as good even if the art looked the same. Something -- or someone -- was missing.

Yeah Layton, BWS, Perlin, Jayjay, Nichols, Lapham etc. etc. were all super important to Valiant's early success. I never said it was all Shooter. I said it seems like Shooter was the one who revered the Gold Key comics and was most responsible for making Magnus a continuation and very similar to the Russ Manning Magnus, using a retrofuturistic setting that was very unique in the 90s.

[ManofTheAtom]

Sure. But when Shooter did it alone at Dark Horse, the writing was just not as good even if the art looked the same. Something -- or someone -- was missing.

Yeah Layton, BWS, Perlin, Jayjay, Nichols, Lapham etc. etc. were all super important to Valiant's early success. I never said it was all Shooter. I said it seems like Shooter was the one who revered the Gold Key comics and was most responsible for making Magnus a continuation and very similar to the Russ Manning Magnus, using a retrofuturistic setting that was very unique in the 90s.

Sure.

[syzhang28]

Sure. But when Shooter did it alone at Dark Horse, the writing was just not as good even if the art looked the same. Something -- or someone -- was missing.

Yeah Layton, BWS, Perlin, Jayjay, Nichols, Lapham etc. etc. were all super important to Valiant's early success. I never said it was all Shooter. I said it seems like Shooter was the one who revered the Gold Key comics and was most responsible for making Magnus a continuation and very similar to the Russ Manning Magnus, using a retrofuturistic setting that was very unique in the 90s.

I think this is true. Even with many disputing Shooter's version of how the new characters were created and how much he did versus others, I haven't seen anyone claim he wasn't the driving force in identifying and negotiating the gold key deal.