Curious....

[Peter Parker]

BTW...I mean no offense here (sometimes I DO but not now)

EVERYBODY..."thinks" they have a stash of HIGH GRADE gems in their closet just waiting for CGC to make them rich

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh, Folks...it AIN'T that easy and it's ususally because most collectors just cannot be COMPLETELY unbiased when appraising their books.

Don't forget that MINUTE color-breaking stress line along the back cover spine area dudes or that slight "impact" indentation on the cover...

yes, it's that anal

[Peter Parker]

Go back and re-read this and you will see that Peter Parker was and is the one who is defending himself ( in his own way ) because of his opinion on grading comics.
His opinion was attacked by other members who seen to have a problem with him........don't be one too just because it's the cool thing to do.
Remember, opinions are like a$$holes.........Everyone has one.

I really don't think his opinion was "attacked" at all. Unless someone voicing an opinion that may be different from his is considered an "attack." Nobody ever called his opinions about slabbing books ignorant crap (unless in another thread that I haven't seen). That post of his (which was his 2nd post in this thread) was the first attack here.

And just to be clear, I'm still not "attacking" his opinion on CGC'd books. I really don't care what he does with his own books. All I'm saying is there was no need to be a jerk about it.

THAT was far from an attack my man, trust me...you'll know when i'm attacking :x

It was a statement of FACT!!!!!!

[Peter Parker]

Peter Parker,

I don't know anything about you or how you may or may not treat people in person compared to how you would treat them here. But I do know this: There was a very pleasant conversation going on here until you came in and called people's comments and opinions "ignorant." If you don't have anything to add to the conversation, just keep quiet and move on to another thread. There was really no need for that.

Go back and re-read this and you will see that Peter Parker was and is the one who is defending himself ( in his own way ) because of his opinion on grading comics.
His opinion was attacked by other members who seen to have a problem with him........don't be one too just because it's the cool thing to do.
Remember, opinions are like a$$holes.........Everyone has one.

Marley...a class act you are my man

I simply refuse to go through the same ol' menusha about this topic THAT was my point in my 2nd post...but hey, thanks for seeing things accurately

[Ricomortis]

<drools>

Hey 400...

Santa came and seen me today.

Here's what I got back....

Magnus 2 CGC 9.8 - expecting 9.8

Vintage Magnus 1 CGC 9.8 - really thought it was going to get a 9.6

Archer & Armstrong 0 CGC 9.8 - expecting 9.8

Magnus 14 CGC 9.8 - expecting 9.8 w/ a chance at a 9.6

Solar 9 CGC 9.6 - hoping for a 9.8 but expecting a 9.6

Solar 10 (1st) CGC 9.6 - ARGGG! They are SO DAMN TOUGH on that
book. This thing looks sweet. Oh well... have to try again. Arggg!

Well Santa was pretty damn good to me this month...



Rico

[400yrs]

Very, Very Nice, Rico!! You got that elusive VM 1 9.8!! Congrats!!

[Ricomortis]

Very, Very Nice, Rico!! You got that elusive VM 1 9.8!! Congrats!!

That reminds me...

Thanks CKB.. I got the package friday. Once again the the slab king comes through with the best quality, best prices, best packaging in the best grades on the internet. Thanks again!

(for those interested) I got... from ckb

Vintage Magnus 1 CGC 9.8

Solar 6 CGC 9.8

X-O Manowar 2 CGC 9.8

Magnus 9 CGC 9.8

Magnus 11 CGC 9.8



Rico

[ckb]

Very, Very Nice, Rico!! You got that elusive VM 1 9.8!! Congrats!!

I agree, it's a big deal. I had the first two, sold one to Rico, so now Rico has two and I have one. The only 3, I believe.

I just need a VM 2 for a full registry set.

[Peter Parker]

<drools>

Hey 400...

Santa came and seen me today.

Here's what I got back....

Magnus 2 CGC 9.8 - expecting 9.8

Vintage Magnus 1 CGC 9.8 - really thought it was going to get a 9.6

Archer & Armstrong 0 CGC 9.8 - expecting 9.8

Magnus 14 CGC 9.8 - expecting 9.8 w/ a chance at a 9.6

Solar 9 CGC 9.6 - hoping for a 9.8 but expecting a 9.6

Solar 10 (1st) CGC 9.6 - ARGGG! They are SO DAMN TOUGH on that
book. This thing looks sweet. Oh well... have to try again. Arggg!

Well Santa was pretty damn good to me this month...



Rico

Nice books Rico...

damn kid, you and CKB...be tha Valiant HG mens

[magnusr]

What does this mean ? Registry set ?

http://www.collectors-society.com/regis ... TypeID=169

/Magnus

[Heath]

I simply refuse to go through the same ol' menusha about this topic THAT was my point in my 2nd post...

But the FACT is you ARE going through it. And the only person attacking anybody's opinions is you. If you had really refused to discuss it, you would have never posted in this thread to begin with. Nobody is dragging you in here.

[GGSAE]

I'm surprised none of you slabbers have requested CGC to include the variants...or is there another grouping of all slabs that i'm unaware of?

- Nick-stiring-the-pot-Gagnon

[Peter Parker]

I simply refuse to go through the same ol' menusha about this topic THAT was my point in my 2nd post...

But the FACT is you ARE going through it. And the only person attacking anybody's opinions is you. If you had really refused to discuss it, you would have never posted in this thread to begin with. Nobody is dragging you in here.

Heath...you're obviously far too ignorant to understand my point of contention, THAT is quite easy to see the more you write your drabble

To continue to lay imputations, and innuendo my way because you cannot conceptulize my position, is simply myopic.

I'm no sycophant, never will be...you most likely are, and will always be...now before you post AGAIN, ask yourself 1 very pertinent querry?

Do I understand this guys position? or am I simply reacting to his tone, and his seeming ego?

Because the FACTS are...you still don't comprehend

[soundoftheuniverse]

Peter shut the f up and please extract CGC's magnus from your mouth so your posts aren't ALWAYS tainted with their seed.

Congrats Rico, nice books!

[400yrs]

I'm surprised none of you slabbers have requested CGC to include the variants...or is there another grouping of all slabs that i'm unaware of?

- Nick-stiring-the-pot-Gagnon

It's only pre-unities so only A&A 0 Gold is in there. IMO, only a few variants are worth the slab, but most pre-unities are worth it.

[GGSAE]

I'm surprised none of you slabbers have requested CGC to include the variants...or is there another grouping of all slabs that i'm unaware of?

- Nick-stiring-the-pot-Gagnon

It's only pre-unities so only A&A 0 Gold is in there. IMO, only a few variants are worth the slab, but most pre-unities are worth it.

I'm sure the guys who have the high grade red and cears would like them included...

[Peter Parker]

Peter shut the f up and please extract CGC's magnus from your mouth so your posts aren't ALWAYS tainted with their seed.

Congrats Rico, nice books!

should you not be cleaning toilets about right now????

[Peter Parker]

Peter shut the f up and please extract CGC's magnus from your mouth so your posts aren't ALWAYS tainted with their seed.

Congrats Rico, nice books!

Talk about ANOTHER someone who has trouble comprehending

Lack of schooling will do that to ya

[Ricomortis]

I'm surprised none of you slabbers have requested CGC to include the variants...or is there another grouping of all slabs that i'm unaware of?

- Nick-stiring-the-pot-Gagnon

It's only pre-unities so only A&A 0 Gold is in there. IMO, only a few variants are worth the slab, but most pre-unities are worth it.

I'm sure the guys who have the high grade red and cears would like them included...

Anyone else... feel free to list their collections probability on HG cgc books.

However... you guys gave me a great idea for the next thread.

Rico"It takes a TON of that antibiotic to clear THAT up"Mortis

[GGSAE]

I'm surprised none of you slabbers have requested CGC to include the variants...or is there another grouping of all slabs that i'm unaware of?

- Nick-stiring-the-pot-Gagnon

It's only pre-unities so only A&A 0 Gold is in there. IMO, only a few variants are worth the slab, but most pre-unities are worth it.

I'm sure the guys who have the high grade red and cears would like them included...

Anyone else... feel free to list their collections probability on HG cgc books.

However... you guys gave me a great idea for the next thread.

Rico"It takes a TON of that antibiotic to clear THAT up"Mortis

I think you put us all to shame killer...
but now i'm curious, how many of the following do you have lying around?
1) Unity Red
2) CEAR
slabbed and unslabbed...

[Ricomortis]

I'm surprised none of you slabbers have requested CGC to include the variants...or is there another grouping of all slabs that i'm unaware of?

- Nick-stiring-the-pot-Gagnon

It's only pre-unities so only A&A 0 Gold is in there. IMO, only a few variants are worth the slab, but most pre-unities are worth it.

I'm sure the guys who have the high grade red and cears would like them included...

Anyone else... feel free to list their collections probability on HG cgc books.

However... you guys gave me a great idea for the next thread.

Rico"It takes a TON of that antibiotic to clear THAT up"Mortis

I think you put us all to shame killer...
but now i'm curious, how many of the following do you have lying around?
1) Unity Red
2) CEAR
slabbed and unslabbed...

GG...

My intentions are NOT to put ANYONE to shame...(especially after Aug002), but rather am trying to REALLY get a sense of how difficult it is to get these valiant pre-unities in 9.8.

See... I'm lucky I hoarded valiants back in 91-93 for near cover in excellent shape. They sat protected for 10+ years, until last year when I pulled them out. Most are in Excellent shape. I didn't have to scour e-bay to put them together.

So, I'm curious... if we ALL put our opinions and collection together (HOWEVER you may have acquired yours) and get a sense of how hard it really is to put one of these pre-unity registry sets together.

I sometimes lean towards, "no one knows about valiants little popularity therefore don't get them graded" then sometimes I think "damn these things are hard to get in HG". Conditions cause problems, paper issues, 50 cent bins, the great valiant crash and how people shall I utter (disposed of) valiants.

Just curious... not egotisitical (I hope)

Anyway... to answer your question...

I have a unity red cgc 9.8
unity red cgc 9.6
cear cgc 9.8
....all were bought in the open market. I quit buying comics shortly after unity was over...

I have 0 issues raw.

Rico

[ckb]

I'm surprised none of you slabbers have requested CGC to include the variants...or is there another grouping of all slabs that i'm unaware of?

- Nick-stiring-the-pot-Gagnon

It's only pre-unities so only A&A 0 Gold is in there. IMO, only a few variants are worth the slab, but most pre-unities are worth it.

I'm sure the guys who have the high grade red and cears would like them included...

Anyone else... feel free to list their collections probability on HG cgc books.

However... you guys gave me a great idea for the next thread.

Rico"It takes a TON of that antibiotic to clear THAT up"Mortis

I think you put us all to shame killer...
but now i'm curious, how many of the following do you have lying around?
1) Unity Red
2) CEAR
slabbed and unslabbed...

GG...

My intentions are NOT to put ANYONE to shame...(especially after Aug002), but rather am trying to REALLY get a sense of how difficult it is to get these valiant pre-unities in 9.8.

See... I'm lucky I hoarded valiants back in 91-93 for near cover in excellent shape. They sat protected for 10+ years, until last year when I pulled them out. Most are in Excellent shape. I didn't have to scour e-bay to put them together.

So, I'm curious... if we ALL put our opinions and collection together (HOWEVER you may have acquired yours) and get a sense of how hard it really is to put one of these pre-unity registry sets together.

I sometimes lean towards, "no one knows about valiants little popularity therefore don't get them graded" then sometimes I think "damn these things are hard to get in HG". Conditions cause problems, paper issues, 50 cent bins, the great valiant crash and how people shall I utter (disposed of) valiants.

Just curious... not egotisitical (I hope)

Anyway... to answer your question...

I have a unity red cgc 9.8
unity red cgc 9.6
cear cgc 9.8
....all were bought in the open market. I quit buying comics shortly after unity was over...

I have 0 issues raw.

Rico

Well, Rico and I have talked about this privately in the past, and I have posted about it with some frequency, but I've found it to be much more difficult than I expected. I'm now even surprised by the late run issues, which you would think would be OK.

I'm currently of the opinion that 9.8 is attainable, but hard. Those of you who have had luck on a limited basis - it's great. Things are not always as they seem, though. I think I'm at between 400 and 500 Valiants submitted at various pre-screen level and some (but not too many) even without a screen. I'd estimate I've gotten about half back graded, on average.

Now, even worse, I am having a hard time finding raw books. I don't want to go on the 'shooting in the dark' thing I did when the books were cheap, since I know how hard it is to get 9.8s. And with the slabbing secret now 'out', the high grade books are held tighter. I made a fair offer on the pre-unity lot that Vault-Keeper had up, at what I considered top dollar for a purchase that large, but understood when he passed on it. The potentially slabbed book holds more value, in some ways, than the already slabbed one right now.

Unfortunately no one handed me stacks of Valiant keys to buy in Chicago like they did in New York in November. I get giddy just thinking about it.

[Ricomortis]

It's only pre-unities so only A&A 0 Gold is in there. IMO, only a few variants are worth the slab, but most pre-unities are worth it.

I'm sure the guys who have the high grade red and cears would like them included...

Anyone else... feel free to list their collections probability on HG cgc books.

However... you guys gave me a great idea for the next thread.

Rico"It takes a TON of that antibiotic to clear THAT up"Mortis

I think you put us all to shame killer...
but now i'm curious, how many of the following do you have lying around?
1) Unity Red
2) CEAR
slabbed and unslabbed...

GG...

My intentions are NOT to put ANYONE to shame...(especially after Aug002), but rather am trying to REALLY get a sense of how difficult it is to get these valiant pre-unities in 9.8.

See... I'm lucky I hoarded valiants back in 91-93 for near cover in excellent shape. They sat protected for 10+ years, until last year when I pulled them out. Most are in Excellent shape. I didn't have to scour e-bay to put them together.

So, I'm curious... if we ALL put our opinions and collection together (HOWEVER you may have acquired yours) and get a sense of how hard it really is to put one of these pre-unity registry sets together.

I sometimes lean towards, "no one knows about valiants little popularity therefore don't get them graded" then sometimes I think "damn these things are hard to get in HG". Conditions cause problems, paper issues, 50 cent bins, the great valiant crash and how people shall I utter (disposed of) valiants.

Just curious... not egotisitical (I hope)

Anyway... to answer your question...

I have a unity red cgc 9.8
unity red cgc 9.6
cear cgc 9.8
....all were bought in the open market. I quit buying comics shortly after unity was over...

I have 0 issues raw.

Rico

Well, Rico and I have talked about this privately in the past, and I have posted about it with some frequency, but I've found it to be much more difficult than I expected. I'm now even surprised by the late run issues, which you would think would be OK.

I'm currently of the opinion that 9.8 is attainable, but hard. Those of you who have had luck on a limited basis - it's great. Things are not always as they seem, though. I think I'm at between 400 and 500 Valiants submitted at various pre-screen level and some (but not too many) even without a screen. I'd estimate I've gotten about half back graded, on average.

Now, even worse, I am having a hard time finding raw books. I don't want to go on the 'shooting in the dark' thing I did when the books were cheap, since I know how hard it is to get 9.8s. And with the slabbing secret now 'out', the high grade books are held tighter. I made a fair offer on the pre-unity lot that Vault-Keeper had up, at what I considered top dollar for a purchase that large, but understood when he passed on it. The potentially slabbed book holds more value, in some ways, than the already slabbed one right now.

Unfortunately no one handed me stacks of Valiant keys to buy in Chicago like they did in New York in November. I get giddy just thinking about it.

CKB....

This seems to be the same picture I seem to be painting with more and more information. I just don't have much luck with e-bay, retail stores, or even internet sites.

Rico"you want me to take what? those are freakin horse pills doc"Mortis

[GGSAE]

Do you think the crash of valiant is what makes some of these key books so difficult to find in HG, or is it relatively on par with other key 1990s comics?

[ckb]

Do you think the crash of valiant is what makes some of these key books so difficult to find in HG, or is it relatively on par with other key 1990s comics?

I have no idea. Seriously.

I have a few relevant thoughts....The fact that these books fell so far out of favor for a long period of time cannot help things. On the other hand, you have people who paid $30-$40-$50-$100 per book on the pre-unities in 1993. Some will sell for a loss, many will not bother and just keep them.

If I was trying to submit to get a 1993ish Marvel in 9.8, say Ghost rider 1 or Spidey 364 or something, I would be a hell of a lot more confident than say a Solar 2 or Rai 4. I could be that I have limited experience with those Marvel books, but when I find one it seems to be mint a lot of the time.

[greg]

Two key elements in this discussion are: quality of production and print run.

Take any book from the 1990s other publishers, and with few exceptions,
there are hundreds of thousands of copies available, with decades of
printing experience under the belt of the publisher. Even Dark Horse
had already been around about 10 years by the mid-1990s.
Problems with the printing process would/should have been ironed
out for the other publishers years before... and they would have been
into a consistent routine for printing.

As far as the Valiant quality of production goes... consistency was hard to find.
The early Valiants (pre-Unity) had "something unusual" going on just about every issue...
Magnus - had the thick trading cards in the middle, #12 has an insert story
Solar - has the Alpha & Omega insert, #10 has the smudgy-cardstock cover
Harbinger - had the coupons, easily splitting-covers, sometimes 3 staples
Rai - somehow wasn't cut correctly, has tilted or miscut covers
X-O Manowar - was the only "normal production" early title

If we check the CGC census counts for these pre-Unity books...
http://www.valiantcomics.com/valiant/valiantcgc.asp
we can see that only about 1/4 to 1/3 of the pre-Unity issues are CGC 9.8
whenever there was "something extra" happening with the production process.

Fox X-O Manowar, CGC 9.8 occurs about 1/2 of the time...
and the same is true for Shadowman... also a "normal" production process.

That doesn't mean that 1/2 of the copies in existence are 9.8...
but of those deemed "CGC-worthy", about 1/2 have been 9.8.
(Pre-screening and selective submissions can play a big part in this process)

Given that none of these pre-Unity books has a print run of even 100,000,
we're talking about "fewer out there" than the 1990s books of their 'competitiors'.

Of course the lower print runs mean lower supply...
but quality of production is probably just as important.

If there are "fewer out there" and there are known "production concerns"...
then it's understandable that the earliest Valiant books generally
are harder to find in CGC 9.8 than other books of the day.