Biggest VALIANT writing mistake

tarheelmarine · Post by **tarheelmarine** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:49 pm

betterthanezra wrote:How about getting Ron Marz to write X-O.....

-Brian

and GIffen sucked as well (as mentioned earlier).

Chuck · Post by **Chuck** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:03 pm

I didn't think changing the direction of Harbinger after issue 25 a good idea.

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:24 pm

Chuck wrote:I didn't think changing the direction of Harbinger after issue 25 a good idea.

I hated that, although I did warm a little to the new Harbingers as time went by.

I disliked Jurgens on Solar ... it seemed like he turned it into a crappy DC comic. I did like his art, though.

Second_Death · Post by **Second_Death** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:52 pm

Since we are not counting the ouster of Jim which was the first and possibly the biggest mistake both creative and managerial......

The first creative mistake was in A&A #8 with the introduction of Ivar. Big, big mistake bringing in a "new" brother who travels through time. The issue itself was an otherwise classic Valiant story with great BWS art.

The biggest creative and managerial mistake was Birthquake. This effectively flushed everything left of the old Valiant right down the toilet. When reading some of the post-BQ books I found myself looking for the Image logo. This was a shame since until BQ the company was still publishing some decent books even if they weren't pre-unity perfection.

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:19 am

depluto wrote:
Chuck wrote:I didn't think changing the direction of Harbinger after issue 25 a good idea.
I hated that, although I did warm a little to the new Harbingers as time went by.

I disliked Jurgens on Solar ... it seemed like he turned it into a crappy DC comic. I did like his art, though.

When I first heard he was going to Solar I was pretty excited about it. Then I read the material and couldn't wait for him to leave.

Brother J · Post by **Brother J** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:48 am

Second_Death wrote: The first creative mistake was in A&A #8 with the introduction of Ivar. Big, big mistake bringing in a "new" brother who travels through time. The issue itself was an otherwise classic VALIANT story with great BWS art.

I like Ivar, and I think Timewalker was one of the better late VALIANT books. So needless to say, I disagree.

tarheelmarine · Post by **tarheelmarine** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:54 am

Brother J wrote:
Second_Death wrote: The first creative mistake was in A&A #8 with the introduction of Ivar. Big, big mistake bringing in a "new" brother who travels through time. The issue itself was an otherwise classic VALIANT story with great BWS art.
I like Ivar, and I think Timewalker was one of the better late VALIANT books. So needless to say, I disagree.

I thought Ivar was a great addition to the Valiant U. I enjoyed all of his appearances.

Rai-fan · Post by **Rai-fan** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:18 am

I also really liked Timewalker. It was the only title that debuted after HARD Corps that I felt was worthy (note: Dr. Mirage was also good, just a little too romance-booky for my taste so I didn't read past issue 8 or so).

Also, don't remember why precisely, but I feel like Timewalker 0 was an important book storywise.

As for the worst writing mistakes?

Harbinger after 25, Rai 9-20, Psi Lords, canceling Ninjak in the middle of a really cool story, all of Ninjak (volume 2) and the granddaddy of them all:

X-0 68.

Heath · Post by **Heath** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:50 am

betterthanezra wrote:
jedimarley wrote:So VH2 started when....Birthquake?
VH-2 in my opinion started with X-O Manowar #1 VOL. 2....thats the way I always looked at it.

-Brian

Yeah, that's the way I always thought it was. VH1 was the original Valiant universe. VH2 was Fabian's new universe. I'm not sure about VH3 as I'm not that familiar with the later issues put out by Acclaim.

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:40 am

Heath wrote:
betterthanezra wrote:
jedimarley wrote:So VH2 started when....Birthquake?
VH-2 in my opinion started with X-O Manowar #1 VOL. 2....thats the way I always looked at it.

-Brian
Yeah, that's the way I always thought it was. VH1 was the original VALIANT universe. VH2 was Fabian's new universe. I'm not sure about VH3 as I'm not that familiar with the later issues put out by Acclaim.

No. What I was getting at is some people look at valiant and Acclaim as being separate.

valiant VH1

Acclaim VH2 and 3.

Me? It's all valiant. For good or bad

Second_Death · Post by **Second_Death** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:07 am

Brother J wrote:
Second_Death wrote: The first creative mistake was in A&A #8 with the introduction of Ivar. Big, big mistake bringing in a "new" brother who travels through time. The issue itself was an otherwise classic VALIANT story with great BWS art.
I like Ivar, and I think Timewalker was one of the better late VALIANT books. So needless to say, I disagree.

Didn't so much mind the Timewalker character and the series was a good read, but not as a brother to Gilad and Aram. After all, where was Ivar in the first couple of issues of A&A and EW for Unity? Always felt Ivar was an after-thought and wondered if an immortal sister would be introduced next.

SnotDrip · Post by **SnotDrip** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:09 am

The middle of pretty much all the main series of VH1 IMO. quality of writing dropped way off it was noticeable. Sure there were some sparks but generally yuck.

Second_Death · Post by **Second_Death** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:09 am

jedimarley wrote:
Me? It's all VALIANT. For good or bad

Me......also.

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:31 am

Daniel Jackson wrote:
depluto wrote:
Chuck wrote:I didn't think changing the direction of Harbinger after issue 25 a good idea.
I hated that, although I did warm a little to the new Harbingers as time went by.

I disliked Jurgens on Solar ... it seemed like he turned it into a crappy DC comic. I did like his art, though.
When I first heard he was going to Solar I was pretty excited about it. Then I read the material and couldn't wait for him to leave.

Same here!

And this wasn't really a writing mistake, but I was dismayed when they started running all those ads touting how Valiant was moving away from the House Art style.

Oh great, lots of splash pages! You know, those look just like ...

dantheman · Post by **dantheman** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:02 am

Rai-fan wrote:I also really liked Timewalker. It was the only title that debuted after HARD Corps that I felt was worthy (note: Dr. Mirage was also good, just a little too romance-booky for my taste so I didn't read past issue 8 or so).

Also, don't remember why precisely, but I feel like Timewalker 0 was an important book storywise.

As for the worst writing mistakes?

Harbinger after 25, Rai 9-20, Psi Lords, canceling Ninjak in the middle of a really cool story, all of Ninjak (volume 2) and the granddaddy of them all:

X-0 68.

I liked Timewalker as well but personally never thought the character lived up to its possible potential (except for the first couple of issues)

cobra_commander · Post by **cobra_commander** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:40 am

Daniel Jackson wrote:
depluto wrote:I disliked Jurgens on Solar ... it seemed like he turned it into a crappy DC comic. I did like his art, though.
When I first heard he was going to Solar I was pretty excited about it. Then I read the material and couldn't wait for him to leave.

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:16 pm

A p!ssed-off, flat-top and goatee sporting, muscle-bound version of Solar called "The Destroyer?" What the HELL was that about? That was sorta lame to me, an antithesis of what the early Solar was. BWS spun in his grave after seeing that, I'm sure. And yes, I know - Barry isn't dead.

-slym

X-O Manowar0415 · Post by **X-O Manowar0415** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:31 pm

"the granddaddy of them all: X-0 68".

I couldn't agree more!

Absolutely horrible

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:12 pm

X-O Manowar0415 wrote:"the granddaddy of them all: X-0 68".

I couldn't agree more!

Absolutely horrible

Hmm... I would have to say Magnus #64 would be close in that race.

Brother J · Post by **Brother J** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:56 pm

Second_Death wrote:
Brother J wrote:
Second_Death wrote: The first creative mistake was in A&A #8 with the introduction of Ivar. Big, big mistake bringing in a "new" brother who travels through time. The issue itself was an otherwise classic VALIANT story with great BWS art.
I like Ivar, and I think Timewalker was one of the better late VALIANT books. So needless to say, I disagree.
Didn't so much mind the Timewalker character and the series was a good read, but not as a brother to Gilad and Aram. After all, where was Ivar in the first couple of issues of A&A and EW for Unity? Always felt Ivar was an after-thought and wondered if an immortal sister would be introduced next.

He probably WAS an after-thought, he wasn't in Rai # 0 so it does seem like he was a later creation. I think his book was good, although it wasn't as good as I think it could have been. I do like that great MAC art in there!

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:58 pm

Brother J wrote:
Second_Death wrote:
Brother J wrote:
Second_Death wrote: The first creative mistake was in A&A #8 with the introduction of Ivar. Big, big mistake bringing in a "new" brother who travels through time. The issue itself was an otherwise classic VALIANT story with great BWS art.
I like Ivar, and I think Timewalker was one of the better late VALIANT books. So needless to say, I disagree.
Didn't so much mind the Timewalker character and the series was a good read, but not as a brother to Gilad and Aram. After all, where was Ivar in the first couple of issues of A&A and EW for Unity? Always felt Ivar was an after-thought and wondered if an immortal sister would be introduced next.
He probably WAS an after-thought, he wasn't in Rai # 0 so it does seem like he was a later creation. I think his book was good, although it wasn't as good as I think it could have been. I do like that great MAC art in there!

I agree, the concept was great, but the series and the character could have been done a little better.

X-O Manowar0415 · Post by **X-O Manowar0415** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:25 pm

the granddaddy of them all: X-0 68".

I couldn't agree more!

Absolutely horrible

Hmm... I would have to say Magnus #64 would be close in that race.

Well for me it isn't even close considering I'm A HUGE X-O fan and not a Magnus fan.

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:15 pm

X-O Manowar0415 wrote:the granddaddy of them all: X-0 68".

I couldn't agree more!

Absolutely horrible

Hmm... I would have to say Magnus #64 would be close in that race.

Well for me it isn't even close considering I'm A HUGE X-O fan and not a Magnus fan.

Whaaaaat?? Not a Magnus fan? <Doing best Ralph Wiggum impression> ......that's unpossible.

X-O Manowar0415 · Post by **X-O Manowar0415** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:55 pm

Daniel Jackson wrote:
X-O Manowar0415 wrote:the granddaddy of them all: X-0 68".

I couldn't agree more!

Absolutely horrible

Hmm... I would have to say Magnus #64 would be close in that race.

Well for me it isn't even close considering I'm A HUGE X-O fan and not a Magnus fan.
Whaaaaat?? Not a Magnus fan? <Doing best Ralph Wiggum impression> ......that's unpossible.

I could never get past that "red dress" he wore.

Elveen · Post by **Elveen** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:01 am

X-O Manowar0415 wrote:
Daniel Jackson wrote:
X-O Manowar0415 wrote:the granddaddy of them all: X-0 68".

I couldn't agree more!

Absolutely horrible

Hmm... I would have to say Magnus #64 would be close in that race.

Well for me it isn't even close considering I'm A HUGE X-O fan and not a Magnus fan.
Whaaaaat?? Not a Magnus fan? <Doing best Ralph Wiggum impression> ......that's unpossible.
I could never get past that "red dress" he wore.

but the white boots were ok....

Magnus could have used a pair of pants... and still kept his "battle tunic"