A new Valiant could still use Phil Seleski, if not Solar...

[ManofTheAtom]

And Sting and Starseed, and the little girl from Knights on Broadway with the Geomancer.

Yeah, but it's so cool I doubt it'll happen.

While at Broadway, Shooter had plans to include the Defiant concepts into the Broadway universe and even did a Christmas one shot story that featured Fatale and a few Defiant characters that was never published, so never say never.

Stop being so pessimistic

[cjv]

I never read Defiant or Broadway too much. The whole "plasm" thing never grabbed my attention to the same degree.

How would the concepts of those universes fit into the Valiant universe? The idea of trying to be as realistic as possible, real science, etc? I mean, the Valiant universe never had "parallel dimensions" and stuff like that - wasn't the whole world of Plasm supposed to be a parallel universe or something?

I am not saying it couldn't work - I don't know Defiant and Broadway well enough, but I am curious how the concepts of the three universes (origin or powers, staying similar to reality, etc) would mesh.

Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

DEFIANT according to Shooterswork.com (DEFIANT1 original source for all)

Charlemange

In 1973, at the close of the Vietnam War, 12 year old Charles Smith runs away from home in search of his brother Pete who is missing in Vietnam. Upon arriving in Vietnam, Charles is drawn to an American who helps him, but later Charles overhears a plot to ship him back to America. Once again he runs away on his own. Months go by.

Eventually, he gets assistance and is directed to the village where his brother is located. He sees his brother from a distance just as the small village is being overtaken by a helicopter bombing raid. He sees his brother and runs towards him, but his brother is hit directly with a bomb before Charles can get there. Bullets mow Charles down as struggles to reach the charred remains of his brother. His determination gets him there and he hold the remains of his brother. One more bomb goes off and the scene shifts to Charles in a hospital bed with no legs. He is in a coma.

His brother's "Dog Tags" are put around his neck. Deep in a coma, Charles dreams of finding answers. He dreams that his dreams become reality. The scene shifts to 1993 and a new physical therapist tells the doctor she is exercising Charles' legs. The doctor runs in to see that Charles has awoke, and he has two fully regrown legs.

Charles hops a ship to leave Vietnam. The ship is ambushed by modern pirates and Charles is overwhelmed with flashbacks of his brother's death. Charles defeats the pirates in the first display of his incredible strength. The issue ends with Charles visiting his family again some 20 years after he first ran away.

Dark Dominion

The story for issue 0 begins with Michael being established as a weirdo and crazy to some of his neighbors. Michael begins his day by visiting McDonalds for breakfast and then stopping by to visit a homeless woman who we later find out is named Mercy. Michael has no luck introducing himself, so he next visits a book store to see how his books are selling. It is established that he has two books published "Beyond the Imaginary Limits" and "Dark Dominion". Michael exits the book store and talks with Madame Consuela, a fortune teller who claims to see his aura and makes a bad prediction for him. Her prediction comes true as he walks away and is cornered by street thugs. Michael cleverly evades his attackers and it is established that he harbors no fear.

Michael arrives at home and makes notes about strange things he's been seeing out of the corner of his eye. He rushes out to meet the homeless woman "Mercy" again. He tells her that he is able to see the same things she sees. "Mercy" agree to help show him around to the new things he is now seeing. Michael asks about a growth, Mercy shows him the origins of the growth in the bowels beneath Grand Central Station. It is here that Michael oversees Chasm (Charles Mal) ordering Skinner to torture a man. Michael interferes and is attacked. Michael escapes fearlessly, and in his escape he inadvertently shifts into the Substratum adjacent to the material world. It is here that he encounters previously invisible monsters. He also runs to protect Mercy who is being attacked. Chasm catches up and attacks him with fire in the Substratum. Michael shift back into the material world and escapes Chasm. Chasm is then gone. Mercy and Michael leave the bowels of Grand Central Station. Mercy gives Michael the nickname "Glimmer" as in "Glimmer of Hope".

Dogs of War

Shooter and Mouse return from the Plasm world. He shows off his new talents to the military and they run him off. Upon returning to his apartment, he discovers that he has been evicted and the landlord has put all his belongings in storage. His significant other is seeing another man.

His mom is broke and desperate because she fell for a marketing scam that took her money. She's working two jobs. Shooter is fed up with the injustice and raids the headquarters of the Canadian company that cheated his mother out of her savings. He tracks down a company supervisor and destroys his car after the guy can't tell where the money went. Mouse loans him money to help his mom.

Later, while walking around in the park, he ponders how to pay back Mouse. A drug dealer assaults him and pulls a gun. Shooter kicks the drug dealer's posterior and keeps the drug dealer's money. Shooter decides that ridding the drug dealers from streets of New York is more profitable than other forms of employment. He continues.

Major Hawkins, one of the military guys from his earlier encounter tracks down Shooter. Shooter is hired to find Major Hawkins' missing grand-daughter who was abducted by someone connected to the child porn industry. Shooter, with the help of Mouse, follows the trail of the girls abduction to the office of a woman who heads a child porn business. The woman warns Shooter of her powerful connections. Shooter starts to leave, but he returns to perform an unmentioned act upon the woman as she screams off panel.

War Dancer

We meet Sally Throckmorton as she stares in disbelief after hitting a deer on a rural road. Running late for her an appointment with her shrink, a passerby offers to clean up the mess so she can be on her way. Arriving over an hour late, Doctor Longstreet tells Sally that she can't help her because she's always late for her appointments, and late with her payments.

Sally drives home only to be severely irritated when a young boy and his dog appear on her doorstep. Willie and his dog Happy immediately start getting into everything. Sally, beginning to snap, goes out back to have a cigarette. Walking around her backyard, she finds a strange gigantic pyramid. A light show happens and War Dancer appears on the steps of the pyramid.

Some locals who saw the lights stop by to harrass the War Dancer dressed in an ancient warrior costume. A fight breaks out between the War Dance and a guy named Bowie. War Dancer is much too fast for Bowie who never lands a punch. As War Dancer offers to help Bowie up, Bowie pulls a knife and slices War Dancer's arm. The locals flee and Sally takes War Dancer back to her house to tend to his wound.

War Dancer starts talking and dreaming of his home world all while Willie continues to annoy. As War Dancer leaves Sally's house, a group from Plasm show up. In the ensuing fight, War Dancer performs his dance to conjure up his powers and run off the thugs from Plasm. The War Dancer become suspicious of Willie and his dog and violently kills them in front of Sally.

Warriors of Plasm (according to Wikipedia)

Far, far away from Earth there exists a planet which is itself alive: the Org of Plasm.

The people of this planet must constantly conquer other worlds to feed the Org. One man, Lorca, is set as Supreme Acquisitor over the Org of Plasm. It his duty to seek out other planets for the Org to devour.

Lorca eventually sets his sights on Earth.

However, he devises an attempt to overthrow the rulers of Plasm. To do so he genetically modifies five humans. When his rebellion is thwarted, he sends them home. These humans gain super powers and then set themselves in preparation to attempt to defend the Earth from the oncoming alien invasion from Plasm.

In addition to an incredibly unique storyline, Warriors of Plasm also had some unique characters for its heroes. Of the five genetically altered superheroes, one was a grandmother and one was a Pastor.

[ManofTheAtom]

Broadway Comics according to Shooterswork.com(DEFIANT1 original source for all)

Knights on Broadway

Knights on Broadway features child-prodigy Tammy who can see into the future. A genius at age 2, she strives to provide a solution for the impending virus that will destroy current society. Without the full support of her parents, she's forced to fake her own death and skip town with the only person who's willing to help, her nanny Ms. Hopkins.

As Tammy forges ahead developing technology for her earth-saving Knights, she occassionally has visions of the future to let her know if she's heading in the right direction.

Star Seed

Cor is the Star Seed. His kidnapped alien father has developed some incredible technology, one of which is Snoopy, a human-like machine capable of audio/visual recording, holographic playback and informational analysis all in a little remote ball that can dock on Cor's watch. Cor, being a half alien, has strength far greater than that of a normal human and is equipped with a gravity vector suit which allows for flight and a cape primarily used for defensive purposes. We follow Cor as he searches for his kidnapped father and his missing technology.

There's not much info about Fatale or or Shadow State at either Wiki or this other site.

Fatale was about a woman who was half human and half demon that could drain powers from men whose ability was inefectual against women.

Shadow State was about Troy Hickenbottom, a man in jail who co-op's his cellmate's "magic" spell and gains super powers that transform him and his wife into comic book characters from his favorite series. While he wants to be a hero and rob banks so they can build a secret fortress all she cares about is returning to normal.

Before the change Troy abused his wife, but after the change she can defend herself and hit him back.

[Second_Death]

The idea of integrating the best of these universes is intriguing, but that still means that VE is mortgaging its future. If it already owns properties (such as everything Solar but the name and suit) it should develop those by any means necessary to establish a flow of revenue. Once established, assuming there is enough revenue to justify expansion, VE can then pursue rights to other properties like the GK characters.

[ManofTheAtom]

The idea of integrating the best of these universes is intriguing, but that still means that VE is mortgaging its future. If it already owns properties (such as everything Solar but the name and suit) it should develop those by any means necessary to establish a flow of revenue. Once established, assuming there is enough revenue to justify expansion, VE can then pursue rights to other properties like the GK characters.

That goes without saying

[cjv]

Okay, so if we try to fit those characters into the Valiant universe, how do we do so?

Are people like Charlemagne harbingers? Do we develop a new class of super powers?

What about Fatale - Valiant, afaik, doesn't have any "demons", at least as I can recall. I know Shadowman dealth with some weird stuff, but I don't recall any real demons or anything (I may be wrong). So what is she?

My point is since the Valiant universe has a very specific set of rules (dead is dead, as close to real science as possible, no parallel dimensions, limited aliens, etc) how do we incorporate and explain these new characters with powers and such? Some of them might fit in no problem, will all of them fit with the Valiant concept of a universe?


Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

Okay, so if we try to fit those characters into the VALIANT universe, how do we do so?

Are people like Charlemagne harbingers? Do we develop a new class of super powers?

What about Fatale - VALIANT, afaik, doesn't have any "demons", at least as I can recall. I know Shadowman dealth with some weird stuff, but I don't recall any real demons or anything (I may be wrong). So what is she?

My point is since the VALIANT universe has a very specific set of rules (dead is dead, as close to real science as possible, no parallel dimensions, limited aliens, etc) how do we incorporate and explain these new characters with powers and such? Some of them might fit in no problem, will all of them fit with the VALIANT concept of a universe?


Chris

Going by the information posted above, it could go something like this

Charlemange could be an immortal, a child of Aram or Gilad. His growing his legs back in 20 years is a dead giveaway to that.

Dark Dominion could explore String Theory, make it so that the demons and other creatures come from a dimension/reality alternate to our own. Mercy and Michael could be specially attuned to seeing beings from that reality.

If not String Theory, there was this episode of Stargate SG-1 in season 6 where a machine the Ancients built allowed Jonas Quinn and others at the base to see insect-like beings who exist in a dimension superimpossed over our own reality but that vibrates at a different frequency or something like that.

Either way, Dark Dominion could be done to follow the rules of the VALIANT Universe.

Dogs of War, War Dancer, and Warriors of Plasm all link their origin to the same place, the Org of Plasm, so it wouldn't be that hard to integrate them into the VALIANT Universe. They'd just be a second alien race alongside the Spider-Aliens.

As for Broadway, Star Seed's father's people would be the third alien race in the VALIANT Universe, and as for Cor himself there's nothing in his concept that would need to be altered.

Same goes for Fatale. The whole demon thing isn't that different from Shadowman, it's just not as subtle as in the earlier issues, it's more overt. The series itself (as well as the rest of Broadway) followed the same rules as VALIANT.

Knights on Broadway (renamed VALIANT Knights maybe? lol) dealt with black holes, not magic, and it followed the same rules about hard science as Solar, Magnus, or any other VALIANT comic.

Shadow State (aka Till Death Does Us Part) was no different than Solar (as I quoted in this or another thread, I forget where I did).

I don't see anything at Broadway that would need to be changed, everything they did fit well within VALIANT, even unreleased stuff like Makeshift.

As for Defiant, someone else that may have read it might know better than I do if anything would need to be changed.

[slym2none]

If not String Theory, there was this episode of Stargate SG-1 in season 6 where a machine the Ancients built allowed Jonas Quinn and others at the base to see insect-like beings who exist in a dimension superimpossed over our own reality but that vibrates at a different frequency or something like that.

So, you don't want VALIANT, you want VH-SG1.





-slym ( )

[ManofTheAtom]

If not String Theory, there was this episode of Stargate SG-1 in season 6 where a machine the Ancients built allowed Jonas Quinn and others at the base to see insect-like beings who exist in a dimension superimpossed over our own reality but that vibrates at a different frequency or something like that.

So, you don't want VALIANT, you want VH-SG1.





-slym ( )

Heh

[slym2none]

If not String Theory, there was this episode of Stargate SG-1 in season 6 where a machine the Ancients built allowed Jonas Quinn and others at the base to see insect-like beings who exist in a dimension superimpossed over our own reality but that vibrates at a different frequency or something like that.

So, you don't want VALIANT, you want VH-SG1.





-slym ( )

Heh

Hey, you had to know someone was gonna do it.





-slym