eternal warrior question

[stvitus]

hey, im new to this here forum thing, but i always wondered- in unity, there are two different Gilads participating in the big fight right? i mean, since hes been around for centuries, and time coexists, why didnt hundreds of different geomancers throughout history just tell him to come to the lost land and fight? then there would have been an entire army of gilads from all different time periods. how come they only use the one from 1992 and 4000 AD? just a little something i thought about, whatd you guys think?

[magnusr]

hey, im new to this here forum thing, but i always wondered- in unity, there are two different Gilads participating in the big fight right? i mean, since hes been around for centuries, and time coexists, why didnt hundreds of different geomancers throughout history just tell him to come to the lost land and fight? then there would have been an entire army of gilads from all different time periods. how come they only use the one from 1992 and 4000 AD? just a little something i thought about, whatd you guys think?

Maybe there are some limits in the physical laws of the Valiant universe that prevents that.

/Magnus

[Solar_OSX]

I'll take a crack at answering this by just adding my thoughts on it:

Since Gilad mentions (I think in EW #1 or Unity #0) that practically every Geomancer he knew down through history mentioned the "end of everything" scenario, I suppose they all did bring it up to him at one time or another.

But, since the plan never actually started in motion until Erica's "death" in 1992, though, is obviously why no Geomancer prior to Geoff could / would be involved. Nor any prior Gilads.

So far as the future goes I think it was generally revealed that the two eras shared many links. Solar had only then re-appeared by 4002, Magnus became more aware of his role after the "Steel Nation" storyline...I guess you could say the two years - 1992 & 4002 - were linked cosmically in some greater sense.

That was always my take on it, anyways.

[ManofTheAtom]

I think that was the point of introducing the 41st Century Geomancer, Rockland Tate.

The idea was for us to get an explanation to questions like this one.

The answer is that the Geomancers didn't know when or where the conflict was going to take place, or who was involved/responsible.

Consider Solar 10, where Geoff accuses Phil of being the one that's going to destroy the world. He was wrong, it was Erica that was responsible.

Time in the VALIANT Universe worked in such a way that everything happened at the same moment like if it was space.

Think of New York City as November 22nd 1963 and Los Angeles as September 11 2001.

In VALIANT time, John F Kennedy's assasination occured at the same exact moment as the planes crashed into the WTC.

In VALIANT time, Geoff discovered the truth at the same time as Rockland did.

The question is, why didn't Geoff pas this knowledge along to the Geomancers that came after him?

One possible explanation is as follows:

Geoff's disapearing during the Chaos Effect meant that he wasn't around to instruct Clay.

Geoff could have returned in 99 in time for the event, but something could have happened to Clay and he died or something, meaning that Geoff would have to wait until the next Geomancer came along to share the information.

That Geomancer would be Lucinda, but she didn't come along until 2056, over 50 years after Unity.

Could it be that Geoff forgot?

Could it be that he never had a chance to tell Lucinda?

[Dr. Solar]

But then why when Solar sent Geoff back with his hand to get the Harbinger kids, Gilad, Armstrong and Aric, didn't he show back up right after he left? He was getting the other heroes at the same time that he and Solar first went to the lost land.

Sounds like "fuzzy time" to me, but hey. I am a product of the California publis school system, so I am already well versed in fuzzy math. Fuzzy time shouldn't be such a stretch.

Chewbacca does not make sense.

[ManofTheAtom]

But then why when Solar sent Geoff back with his hand to get the Harbinger kids, Gilad, Armstrong and Aric, didn't he show back up right after he left? He was getting the other heroes at the same time that he and Solar first went to the lost land.

Sounds like "fuzzy time" to me, but hey. I am a product of the California publis school system, so I am already well versed in fuzzy math. Fuzzy time shouldn't be such a stretch.

Chewbacca does not make sense.

Wasn't there a line about how he wasn't gone long from Solar's pov because time works differently there?

And didn't the people from the 41st Century arrive relatively at the same time as the ones from the 20th?

[Elveen]

But then why when Solar sent Geoff back with his hand to get the Harbinger kids, Gilad, Armstrong and Aric, didn't he show back up right after he left? He was getting the other heroes at the same time that he and Solar first went to the lost land.

Sounds like "fuzzy time" to me, but hey. I am a product of the California publis school system, so I am already well versed in fuzzy math. Fuzzy time shouldn't be such a stretch.

Chewbacca does not make sense.

you took Latin?

[Dr. Solar]

But then why when Solar sent Geoff back with his hand to get the Harbinger kids, Gilad, Armstrong and Aric, didn't he show back up right after he left? He was getting the other heroes at the same time that he and Solar first went to the lost land.

Sounds like "fuzzy time" to me, but hey. I am a product of the California publis school system, so I am already well versed in fuzzy math. Fuzzy time shouldn't be such a stretch.

Chewbacca does not make sense.

you took Latin?

At least I didn't mistype it "pubis". That would have gotten me into trouble.

[Chiclo]

I think that was the point of introducing the 41st Century Geomancer, Rockland Tate.

The idea was for us to get an explanation to questions like this one.

The answer is that the Geomancers didn't know when or where the conflict was going to take place, or who was involved/responsible.

Consider Solar 10, where Geoff accuses Phil of being the one that's going to destroy the world. He was wrong, it was Erica that was responsible.

Time in the VALIANT Universe worked in such a way that everything happened at the same moment like if it was space.

Think of New York City as November 22nd 1963 and Los Angeles as September 11 2001.

In VALIANT time, John F Kennedy's assasination occured at the same exact moment as the planes crashed into the WTC.

In VALIANT time, Geoff discovered the truth at the same time as Rockland did.

The question is, why didn't Geoff pas this knowledge along to the Geomancers that came after him?

One possible explanation is as follows:

Geoff's disapearing during the Chaos Effect meant that he wasn't around to instruct Clay.

Geoff could have returned in 99 in time for the event, but something could have happened to Clay and he died or something, meaning that Geoff would have to wait until the next Geomancer came along to share the information.

That Geomancer would be Lucinda, but she didn't come along until 2056, over 50 years after Unity.

Could it be that Geoff forgot?

Could it be that he never had a chance to tell Lucinda?

I think you are simplifying time a little too much.

The Lost Land is part of the Valiant mythos, but not exactly part of their universe. It stands without the four conventional dimensions of the Valiant Universe. Basically the way that the Lost Land is suggested to work is that you can go from the Lost Land to any given time in the regular Valiant Universe - that the four conventional dimensions of the Lost Land can intersect the four conventional dimensions of the Valiant Universe at any given time and presumably place.

I could prattle on for a while about this, but it would only be reiterating my point.

[Dr. Solar]

I think you are simplifying time a little too much.

The Lost Land is part of the Valiant mythos, but not exactly part of their universe. It stands without the four conventional dimensions of the Valiant Universe. Basically the way that the Lost Land is suggested to work is that you can go from the Lost Land to any given time in the regular Valiant Universe - that the four conventional dimensions of the Lost Land can intersect the four conventional dimensions of the Valiant Universe at any given time and presumably place.

I could prattle on for a while about this, but it would only be reiterating my point.

The more I try to figure this out, the more it makes my head spin.

I am willing to let this one be one of those "comic book" things that is a device to tell a cool story.

[Chiclo]

Ok, try it this way:

When you leave the regular Valiant Universe, you leave the length, height and depth (the three physical dimensions) of the Valiant Universe. You also leave the time - the fourth dimension - of the Valiant Universe.

When you come back from the Lost Land, you re-enter at a specific location, a specific point that you can uniquely describe in the three physical dimensions. You also appear at a specific time. If you can control what point in space you come back in, it stands to reason that you can control what point in time you come back in.

Space and time aren't all that separate. It is easy to make it more complicated than it is.

[Dr. Solar]

Ok, try it this way:

When you leave the regular Valiant Universe, you leave the length, height and depth (the three physical dimensions) of the Valiant Universe. You also leave the time - the fourth dimension - of the Valiant Universe.

When you come back from the Lost Land, you re-enter at a specific location, a specific point that you can uniquely describe in the three physical dimensions. You also appear at a specific time. If you can control what point in space you come back in, it stands to reason that you can control what point in time you come back in.

Space and time aren't all that separate. It is easy to make it more complicated than it is.

I follow all of this, but then I think of things like:
why did Geoff show up later in the Lost Land the second time when he brought the Valiant heroes? Why didn't he just show up at the same time he initially did?

Why didn't Solar just decide to show up right when Pierce did and just nuke her and everything else?

If whenever you show up to the lost land you show up in it's "present", how does the universe keep track?

oi vey.

[Chiclo]

I follow all of this, but then I think of things like:
why did Geoff show up later in the Lost Land the second time when he brought the Valiant heroes? Why didn't he just show up at the same time he initially did?

Why didn't Solar just decide to show up right when Pierce did and just nuke her and everything else?

If whenever you show up to the lost land you show up in it's "present", how does the universe keep track?

oi vey.

You are leaving one universe and entering (for purposes of simplicity, let's call it) another one. You are not only leaving the space, but the time, too. There's a principal called Time's Arrow. It states that it is just as likely that time would travel backwards when a universe is created as forwards, so there was a 50/50 shot that time would have flowed backwards in the Lost Land, but all indications show that is not the case. As for the time of his various arrivals, I suspect it would have been possible, but would not have made for very entertaining reading, and it would be a shame to nip a story like Unity in the bud.

Come to think of it, that comment about Time's Arrow probably didn't help anything.

[schi0249]

I never though of it this way before, but that all kind of makes sense.

[Chiclo]

I never though of it this way before, but that all kind of makes sense.

I won't mention the thousands of dollars I spent going to school to be able to generate that sort of insight.