The "Darker Side" of Valiant

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:48 pm

Picking up from a previous post in another thread:

Who would be the best "good guy" to make into a "bad guy" (permanently)?

(Do not count Pete Stanchek)

Shakespeare · Post by **Shakespeare** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:52 pm

Do we have to avoid the characters we know stay "good" because of Rai #0?

S

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:53 pm

Shakespeare wrote:Do we have to avoid the characters we know stay "good" because of Rai #0?

S

Well, to an extent, yes...

After all, Rai 0 only goes up through the present (4001)...right?

So at least through the timeline we know about they cant "go bad". Afterwards...

on the other hand, Rai 0 doesnt encompass the whole timeline. It is only snapshots woven into a story. so Who's to say that some of the Harbinger kids didn't join the resistance, and then turn traitor. Or i.e. HARD Corps for that matter...

magnusr · Post by **magnusr** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:54 pm

yardstick wrote:Picking up from a previous post in another thread:

Who would be the best "good guy" to make into a "bad guy" (permanently)?

(Do not count Pete Stanchek)

Oh, many. Solar's always been a bit too reckless. Turok desn't trust the authorities. Ninjak's already operated outside the law. Bloodshot has been reprogrammed. Maybe Ninjak would be best.

/Magnus

mobstirr · Post by **mobstirr** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:58 pm

Armstrong!

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:59 pm

magnusr wrote:
yardstick wrote:Picking up from a previous post in another thread:

Who would be the best "good guy" to make into a "bad guy" (permanently)?

(Do not count Pete Stanchek)
Oh, many. Solar's always been a bit too reckless. Turok desn't trust the authorities. Ninjak's already operated outside the law. Bloodshot has been reprogrammed. Maybe Ninjak would be best.

/Magnus

Motive?

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:03 pm

mobstirr wrote:Armstrong!

Well why not? he did after all "disappear" after the death of Archer... And if Archer's death was somehow a result of the actions of Gilad, well I've always suspected more than just a little bit of resentment from Aram regarding Gilad... Archer's death could be the last straw...

Perhaps this time Aram gets possessed by the Eternal Enemy... (willingly, I might add)

magnusr · Post by **magnusr** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:12 pm

yardstick wrote:Motive?

Like other Valiant characters that are inbetween good and bad - the wish to do good, no matter the consequences.

/Magnus

magnusr · Post by **magnusr** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:15 pm

yardstick wrote:
mobstirr wrote:Armstrong!
Well why not? he did after all "disappear" after the death of Archer... And if Archer's death was somehow a result of the actions of Gilad, well I've always suspected more than just a little bit of resentment from Aram regarding Gilad... Archer's death could be the last straw...

Perhaps this time Aram gets possessed by the Eternal Enemy... (willingly, I might add)

I love the idea of Aram showing resentment, but he did show up in later Magnus issues as a good guy - at least after the psychoprobe effects were countered.

/Magnus

Dr. Solar · Post by **Dr. Solar** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:33 pm

I think Archer would make the most interesting good guy turned bad guy.

I mean, he's SO good, and he is always determined to be so righteous. What if he decided that soemthing "bad" was the best thing for everyone, and he righteously believed it?

Evil Archer.

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:38 pm

magnusr wrote:
yardstick wrote:Motive?
Like other Valiant characters that are inbetween good and bad - the wish to do good, no matter the consequences.

/Magnus

There is a term for someone who has that condition. Anyone care to take a guess?

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:21 pm

This is a great topic. The one thing the universes conceived by Shooter (The New Universe, Valiant, Defiant and Broadway) seemed to lack may have been an abundance of interesting villians. I think Shooter perhaps relied on the characters having problems just surviving in life without needing too many villians, but I also think it's an excellent idea for the relaunch if a Valiant hero turned bad. Now that could be interesting.

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:48 am

yardstick wrote:
magnusr wrote:
yardstick wrote:Motive?
Like other Valiant characters that are inbetween good and bad - the wish to do good, no matter the consequences.

/Magnus
There is a term for someone who has that condition. Anyone care to take a guess?

Hmm... not monomaniac (one of the symptoms of Asperger's)

Not zealot.....

Anarchist? No...

I give. What's the word you're looking for?

-slym

Second_Death · Post by **Second_Death** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:49 am

comicmark wrote:This is a great topic. The one thing the universes conceived by Shooter (The New Universe, Valiant, Defiant and Broadway) seemed to lack may have been an abundance of interesting villians. I think Shooter perhaps relied on the characters having problems just surviving in life without needing too many villians, but I also think it's an excellent idea for the relaunch if a Valiant hero turned bad. Now that could be interesting.

One of the reasons that preunity VALIANTs are among the best books ever published.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:28 am

Here's three thousand words for you on the subject.

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:12 am

Those are pretty cool covers.
I'm sure we could think of Marvel and DC heroes that turned temporarily bad as well.
By the way, what happened in this story? I didn't read any Valiants after around the time Shooter left.
I'm curious if it parallels at all what happened in the New Universe's Star Brand.
I've heard a few people were killed in this story arch as well.

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:43 am

Also, this topic is about a good guy going bad permanently, so I was using that premise as stated in the opening post of this topic.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:44 am

comicmark wrote:Those are pretty cool covers.
I'm sure we could think of Marvel and DC heroes that turned temporarily bad as well.
By the way, what happened in this story? I didn't read any Valiants after around the time Shooter left.
I'm curious if it parallels at all what happened in the New Universe's Star Brand.
I've heard a few people were killed in this story arch as well.

Solar destroyed Texas, but that was in another story toward the end of the series, not this one, and it wasn't his fault, it happend when people working for the government tried to capture him.

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:47 am

ManofTheAtom wrote:
comicmark wrote:Those are pretty cool covers.
I'm sure we could think of Marvel and DC heroes that turned temporarily bad as well.
By the way, what happened in this story? I didn't read any Valiants after around the time Shooter left.
I'm curious if it parallels at all what happened in the New Universe's Star Brand.
I've heard a few people were killed in this story arch as well.
Solar destroyed Texas, but that was in another story toward the end of the series, not this one, and it wasn't his fault, it happend when people working for the government tried to capture him.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to have to read these.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:49 am

comicmark wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
comicmark wrote:Those are pretty cool covers.
I'm sure we could think of Marvel and DC heroes that turned temporarily bad as well.
By the way, what happened in this story? I didn't read any Valiants after around the time Shooter left.
I'm curious if it parallels at all what happened in the New Universe's Star Brand.
I've heard a few people were killed in this story arch as well.
Solar destroyed Texas, but that was in another story toward the end of the series, not this one, and it wasn't his fault, it happend when people working for the government tried to capture him.
Thanks for the info. I'm going to have to read these. I know these issues were overprinted, I may already have them.

That happened toward the end of the series, in the latter 50s. Hope you can find them

(I still can't believe they tried to give Solar a super pet in those issues... and what was the deal with the gay supervillain whose motivation was to have sex with Solar?)

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:16 am

That happened toward the end of the series, in the latter 50s. Hope you can find them

(I still can't believe they tried to give Solar a super pet in those issues...

and what was the deal with the gay supervillain whose motivation was to have sex with Solar?)

[/quote]

Thanks to Valiant experts like yourself, a guy can learn tons about Valiant just by hanging around this board!
You're right, those later issues are tough to find in the Solar run.
By the way, they keep talking about someone named MOTA on the boards, and I never realized who that was until now.
Guess I'm a bit slow.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:17 am

comicmark wrote: Thanks to Valiant experts like yourself, a guy can learn tons about Valiant just by hanging around this board!
You're right, those later issues are tough to find in the Solar run.
By the way, they keep talking about someone named MOTA on the boards, and I never realized who that was until now.
Guess I'm a bit slow.

Just spell MOTA backwards, that might help.

Second_Death · Post by **Second_Death** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:18 am

ManofTheAtom wrote:That happened toward the end of the series, in the latter 50s. Hope you can find them (I still can't believe they tried to give Solar a super pet in those issues... and what was the deal with the gay supervillain whose motivation was to have sex with Solar?)

Solar's gay admirer appeared in issues 53-54. Anyone putting together a complege run of Solar may as well save their money and skip those. Texas got smoked in issue 59 I believe.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:21 am

Btw, shouldn't the name of this thread be the Darquer Side of VALIANT?

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:21 am

I'm definately on the lookout for Solar 59 now.
Thanks.

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