ATTN: those having difficulty getting the new Harby HC

[wrunow]

Trademarks = recognizion

Recognizion = sales

Sales lead to anger, anger leads to suffering..

Wait, that's not right.

If VEI lets the tm's go, they loose, and if they loose we all loose.

I respectfully disagree with this opinion. VALIANT has been gone so long title recognition is less and less important each passing week.

If VEI lets the TM's go, the road is harder, but not insurmountable with the web and other ways to promote their product.

Just why exactly do you think VIP wants the tms?

They want them for the recognizion that comes with them.

Please look to this quote I made earlier today for the answer to your question:

I hate to say it, but this may be the case. Many of you know I strongly favor the VEI guys and admire what they have done and are trying to do, but, maybe the way out of this situation is to call VIP's bluff and let them try to publish something. My money says they don't really want to publish anything, and if they are forced to to protect the TM's, and this may not be the way it works, their product will probably be crap and they will have major egg on their face. At that point, they will have ruined there own TM's and it really won't matter much. I guess if they put out a good product that the comic community will support, then, more power to them, but, based on the quality of their "ashcan" I don't think VEI is too worried after having the support of Hall and Shooter, not to mention other quality pro's linked to their own work.

In a free market the consumers will have to choose, do you think VIP wants this feud to go that far? I don't. I think they want to negotiate an agreement for cash. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[ManofTheAtom]

I think they want to negotiate an agreement for cash.

Well, that's a crime.

[slym2none]

I think we all agree on everything that has been said (about 18 times now) in this thread.

Now, can we let Zach get back to trying to sell this HC to us?





-slym

[ManofTheAtom]

I think we all agree on everything that has been said (about 18 times now) in this thread.

Now, can we let Zach get back to trying to sell this HC to us?





-slym

Answer

42

Question

What's the number of times things must be repeated on a msg board?

There, I spoiled the Hitchhicker's Guide to the Universe.

[wrunow]

I think they want to negotiate an agreement for cash.

Well, that's a crime.

It may be, but you have to work with the resources and situations as they take place in the real world. Does it suck? You bet. Do things like this happen all this time in the business world? You bet.

Have you ever had an insurance company settle a claim against you when you know the other party is blatently lying? I have, it sucks and this is sort of the same type deal. VIP, through legal means, has positioned themselves so that VEI has to deal with them if they want control of these TM's in the short term anyway one way or another. If VEI wants to end this they can pay or forget about the TM's in the short term. Of course this is only my opinion, I know nothing more than any other board member.

[ManofTheAtom]

I think they want to negotiate an agreement for cash.

Well, that's a crime.

It may be, but you have to work with the resources and situations as they take place in the real world. Does it suck? You bet. Do things like this happen all this time in the business world? You bet.

Have you ever had an insurance company settle a claim against you when you know the other party is blatently lying? I have, it sucks and this is sort of the same type deal. VIP, through legal means, has positioned themselves so that VEI has to deal with them if they want control of these TM's in the short term anyway one way or another. If VEI wants to end this they can pay or forget about the TM's in the short term. Of course this is only my opinion, I know nothing more than any other board member.

See, that's the misconception.

VIP isn't the kid in the playground playing keep-away with VEI's Gi Joe toy.

VIP's the kid in the playground who's pulling on Joe's legs while VEI's pulling on the arms.

Neither one of them owns these tms, they are fighting for them to see who gets them.

The only position VIP's placed themselves in is as an annoyance who may very well have commited a crime against VIP when they used the Bloodshot TM in their ashcan.

They have nothing of value that VEI may want as they don't own the TMs.

[slym2none]

All I am saying is, we have plenty of threads just for discussing what has been said this past page and a half. Nothing new has been said here, and while many other threads get wayyyyyy off topic, usually because the threads were "ended" in their sense. (i.e., comic FS is now sold, et. al.)

Zach is still selling this HC, let's not clutter his thread with this VIP garbage talk?





-slym

[ManofTheAtom]

All I am saying is, we have plenty of threads just for discussing what has been said this past page and a half. Nothing new has been said here, and while many other threads get wayyyyyy off topic, usually because the threads were "ended" in their sense. (i.e., comic FS is now sold, et. al.)

Zach is still selling this HC, let's not clutter his thread with this VIP garbage talk?





-slym

Heh, ok

[slym2none]

Thank you.



-slym

[wrunow]

i would be more than happy to provide them for you.

if your local comic shop isn't willing to work with valiant to get these into your hands, they don't really deserve your business. it takes minimal effort to get the order placed, yet most shop owners are too lazy to do so.

i'm still offering them for $25.00 postage paid in the U.S. i will ship overseas, postage will just be a bit more.

LET ME KNOW IF YOU NEED ANYTHING.

i have faith that VEI will get back on track. it's been 10 years since new valiant stuff has been released, what's the problem with waiting another week or two? think about everything VEI has put into this. cut them some slack...

ONE THING TO THINK ABOUT:

if dynamic forces/dynamite entertainment is behind VIP, doesn't it make sense that if they put pressure on Diamond to not ship these, that Diamond would crack? Think about the amount of money DF/DE spend advertising in Previews...and what Diamond would potentially fear to lose if DF/DE were to no longer solicite items in Previews? in my mind there is no way in hell they wouldn't continue soliciting, but it makes you think...

I'm done, but, Zach started this discussion with his "ONE THING TO THINK ABOUT" statement. Otherwise move it to Buy/Sell/Trade.

[Chiclo]

Trademarks = recognizion

Recognizion = sales

Sales lead to anger, anger leads to suffering..

Wait, that's not right.

If VEI lets the tm's go, they loose, and if they loose we all loose.

I respectfully disagree with this opinion. VALIANT has been gone so long title recognition is less and less important each passing week.

If VEI lets the TM's go, the road is harder, but not insurmountable with the web and other ways to promote their product.

Just why exactly do you think VIP wants the tms?

They want them for the recognizion that comes with them.

I think this very well illustrates the differences in how you and I see vip.

I don't think "they" have any intention of putting out comics. I don't think "they" had any intention of putting out comics when "they" started pursuing the trademarks and I think "they" only put out that ashcan to strengthen their case and to give them a little more leverage in future hearings about the trademarks. That ashcan looked very rushed and it hit the market before the Harbinger HC did. The infrastructure to produce that ashcan was most likely leased and there's no art credit. That means there are no artists attached to vip, something a legitimate comic company would need.

I don't think vip was after the recognition that the names bring with them. I think vip was after what "they" saw as some easy marks (VEI).

Furthermore, I keep putting "they" in quotes because I doubt there's anyone permenantly attached to vip other than Lovitz.

[ManofTheAtom]

IS the ashcan enough for the courts?

Wouldn't a judge ask VIP and VEI to back up their claims of intent to use the trademarks with something more than an ashcan?

[greg]

Furthermore, I keep putting "they" in quotes because I doubt there's anyone permenantly attached to vip other than Lovitz.

VIP is at least one other person. When I spoke with Lovitz at San Diego Con '05,
I pointed out that if VIP had even attended the Acclaim auction,
they could have been the legitimate heir to the Valiant universe...
but since they didn't even attend, they had no business pretending
to be fans of the original Valiant.

Lovitz said that he specifically worked for two weeks in preparation for the Acclaim auction
and was called the day before the auction and told not to bother to attend.

While I'm sure Lovitz can/would say anything that benefitted him,
I'm certain that he wasn't lying about the Acclaim auction.
He seemed to know how it made him (and his client) look... and didn't seem happy.

[Chiclo]

IS the ashcan enough for the courts?

Wouldn't a judge ask VIP and VEI to back up their claims of intent to use the trademarks with something more than an ashcan?

If nothing else, it was a product put out under the banner of vip using (all?) the trademarks in dispute that was available for sale before any VEI product was for sale.

It's lawyerball. The rules don't always make sense.

[greg]

IS the ashcan enough for the courts?

Wouldn't a judge ask VIP and VEI to back up their claims of intent to use the trademarks with something more than an ashcan?

Stall tactic only. VIP must use the trademarks in a certain window of time.
Even if they don't plan to ever use them again, they had to do so in order
to keep their applications alive in the system.

I'd be interested to hear what a judge thinks about the Bloodshot "TM" label.
VIP had no legitimate claim to that one and it looks like they knew it in their credits page,
but they put "TM" on the image page anyway.

Surely a judge can tell the difference between shaky foundations built on sand
and a foundation built on 80,000,000 books in print.

[ManofTheAtom]

IS the ashcan enough for the courts?

Wouldn't a judge ask VIP and VEI to back up their claims of intent to use the trademarks with something more than an ashcan?

If nothing else, it was a product put out under the banner of vip using (all?) the trademarks in dispute that was available for sale before any VEI product was for sale.

It's lawyerball. The rules don't always make sense.

Being a lawyer is both Lovitz's downfall and redeeming grace.

Being a lawyer gives him the perfect excuse for what he's doing... he's getting paid for it!!, heh.

If VIP had told him to hire hookers to hand out the ashcans at San Diego, he would have done it because that's what they'd pay him to do.

[ManofTheAtom]

IS the ashcan enough for the courts?

Wouldn't a judge ask VIP and VEI to back up their claims of intent to use the trademarks with something more than an ashcan?

Stall tactic only. VIP must use the trademarks in a certain window of time.
Even if they don't plan to ever use them again, they had to do so in order
to keep their applications alive in the system.

I'd be interested to hear what a judge thinks about the Bloodshot "TM" label.
VIP had no legitimate claim to that one and it looks like they knew it in their credits page,
but they put "TM" on the image page anyway.

Surely a judge can tell the difference between shaky foundations built on sand
and a foundation built on 80,000,000 books in print.

VIP's use of the Bloodshot TM is going to be their downfall.

[slym2none]

VIP's use of the Bloodshot TM is going to be their downfall.

Let's hope that anything they might have wanted to hold out for will be negated by this boneheaded manuever (sp?)



-slym

[Cyberstrike]

IS the ashcan enough for the courts?

Wouldn't a judge ask VIP and VEI to back up their claims of intent to use the trademarks with something more than an ashcan?

I think it's more than just comic books at this point it's about the video games, TV shows, and of course movie rights.
Because we're talking very BIG bucks that is possible for the winner of this battle.

[ManofTheAtom]

IS the ashcan enough for the courts?

Wouldn't a judge ask VIP and VEI to back up their claims of intent to use the trademarks with something more than an ashcan?

I think it's more than just comic books at this point it's about the video games, TV shows, and of course movie rights.
Because we're talking very BIG bucks that is possible for the winner of this battle.

That's something I'm curious about.

Their use of the TMs in comic form protects the printed matter TM, but don't they also need to produce a video game, TV show, and/or movie to protect those TMs?

Or is the use of the name in any of those mediums enough to protect the whole thing?

[wrunow]

IS the ashcan enough for the courts?

Wouldn't a judge ask VIP and VEI to back up their claims of intent to use the trademarks with something more than an ashcan?

Stall tactic only. VIP must use the trademarks in a certain window of time.
Even if they don't plan to ever use them again, they had to do so in order
to keep their applications alive in the system.

I'd be interested to hear what a judge thinks about the Bloodshot "TM" label.
VIP had no legitimate claim to that one and it looks like they knew it in their credits page,
but they put "TM" on the image page anyway.

Surely a judge can tell the difference between shaky foundations built on sand
and a foundation built on 80,000,000 books in print.

VIP's use of the Bloodshot TM is going to be their downfall.

Unfortunately, I think Lovitz knows what he's doing, I don't think he'd put his clients in jeopardy. Most of the time the lawyers know how the system works better than those running the system.

[ManofTheAtom]

IS the ashcan enough for the courts?

Wouldn't a judge ask VIP and VEI to back up their claims of intent to use the trademarks with something more than an ashcan?

Stall tactic only. VIP must use the trademarks in a certain window of time.
Even if they don't plan to ever use them again, they had to do so in order
to keep their applications alive in the system.

I'd be interested to hear what a judge thinks about the Bloodshot "TM" label.
VIP had no legitimate claim to that one and it looks like they knew it in their credits page,
but they put "TM" on the image page anyway.

Surely a judge can tell the difference between shaky foundations built on sand
and a foundation built on 80,000,000 books in print.

VIP's use of the Bloodshot TM is going to be their downfall.

Unfortunately, I think Lovitz knows what he's doing, I don't think he'd put his clients in jeopardy. Most of the time the lawyers know how the system works better than those running the system.

Couldn't the same be said for whoever VEI's lawyer is?

[Cyberstrike]

IS the ashcan enough for the courts?

Wouldn't a judge ask VIP and VEI to back up their claims of intent to use the trademarks with something more than an ashcan?

I think it's more than just comic books at this point it's about the video games, TV shows, and of course movie rights.
Because we're talking very BIG bucks that is possible for the winner of this battle.

That's something I'm curious about.

Their use of the TMs in comic form protects the printed matter TM, but don't they also need to produce a video game, TV show, and/or movie to protect those TMs?

Or is the use of the name in any of those mediums enough to protect the whole thing?

My understanding is that who holds the copyrights and trademarks own all
the rights to all media including comics, movies, video games, TV shows,
and etc.
IIRC Bob Layton said that was a Shadowman movie deal with Dimension Films was set up before Acclaim went bankrupt and that since the rights were in limbo so was the movie.

As to who owns the rights to the Shadowman and Armorines video games it should (keyword here: SHOULD) be VEI since they essentially bought Acclaims' rights to those characters.

At least it stands to reason that is how it is suppose to work since Random House owns the rights to Turok so they should own the rights to video games based on the character and I recall reading somewhere that
there is a new Turok video game in the works.

[Daniel Jackson]

Random House owns the rights to Turok so they should own the rights to video games based on the character and I recall reading somewhere that
there is a new Turok video game in the works.

That's correct, but it's only a Turok game in name only and it has nothing to do with the previous video games.

[ManofTheAtom]

Random House owns the rights to Turok so they should own the rights to video games based on the character and I recall reading somewhere that
there is a new Turok video game in the works.

That's correct, but it's only a Turok game in name only and it has nothing to do with the previous video games.

What's funny is that that applies to every single Turok game after the second.

Only the first one has anything to do with the original Turok from the comics, all the others are based on the VH 2 Turok.

The one from the current comic might as well be the VH 4378034 Turok.