will cgc ever admit a mistake?

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:32 am

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 78127&rd=1

The guy in the auction doesn't seem to hold hostile feelings towards cgc and the mishandling of the book. Honestly you don't know if the book was even nm to begin with or if it was damaged in shipping or if handler bob took an ecto knife and chuckled to himself while he did some "restoration" but it's stories like these that worry me. I'd rather keep the book rare then have cgc mess up the book and pretend like it was always this way...

No excuse (if this guy's story is legit) :x

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:42 am

Brittleness in a book is a defect that will be deducted for. If grading the book causes the spine to split.... The brittleness would make it a VG/F anyway.

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:41 am

Still, damn. To send in a book in that shape (even with the britt. problem) and have them damn near shear the cover off? This guy's being a lot nicer about it than I would be.

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:49 am

If this was really the story I have to think that CGC would take care of it and replace it. CGC has built a reputation of going the extra mile with their customer service. Basically that is what distinguishes them from other companys. Others will find a reason that it is not their fault. CGC will go beyond the call of duty to fix any mistakes..

Also you have a 3/4 split spine in the 5.0 grade?

Good lord..

x-omatic · Post by **x-omatic** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:24 pm

you would think he might include a picture on the empty case to prove his point.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:42 pm

x-omatic wrote:you would think he might include a picture on the empty case to prove his point.

Yeah, I thought the same thing...call me a cynic.

Peter Parker · Post by **Peter Parker** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:03 pm

When a book has "tanning/browning" pages, the start of serious problems has already begun long ago

As paper begins to discolor and mutate do to heat/light/moisture, ALL kinds of chemistry is going on that will rapidly deteriorate anything made of paper. A comic book is made out of...at BEST..average paper quality, hence the CONSTANT mantra for decades, informing us of how to properly store and preserve comics.

This book obviously had some MAJOR structural issues BEFORE it was submitted to CGC

"Brittle" ANYTHING screams one thing if it screams a hundred things: "I will easily break if you're not careful"

This book when lying face down on a table may look "amazing" (pun intended) but watch out if you try and pick it up folks. The book will eventually fall apart, and witout preservation, will be to hot to handle for perpetuity.

This guy should have known this prior to submission, but chose to believe his OWN hype of this "nm 9.4" gem he had

I mean, come on guy...do you even understand the necessity of structural integrity

Its fairly important in general, let alone when dealing in collectibles

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:48 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:
x-omatic wrote:you would think he might include a picture on the empty case to prove his point.
Yeah, I thought the same thing...call me a cynic.

He wasn't proving any point. He simple said this book looks great but was graded a 5.0 due to this reason. I made an issue of this, not him. No hidden agendas here folks.

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:54 pm

Peter Parker wrote:When a book has "tanning/browning" pages, the start of serious problems has already begun long ago

As paper begins to discolor and mutate do to heat/light/moisture, ALL kinds of chemistry is going on that will rapidly deteriorate anything made of paper. A comic book is made out of...at BEST..average paper quality, hence the CONSTANT mantra for decades, informing us of how to properly store and preserve comics.

This book obviously had some MAJOR structural issues BEFORE it was submitted to CGC "Brittle" ANYTHING screams one thing if it screams a hundred things: "I will easily break if you're not careful" This book when lying face down on a table may look "amazing" (pun intended) but watch out if you try and pick it up folks. The book will eventually fall apart, and witout preservation, will be to hot to handle for perpetuity.

This guy should have known this prior to submission, but chose to believe his OWN hype of this "nm 9.4" gem he had I mean, come on guy...do you even understand the necessity of structural integrity Its fairly important in general, let alone when dealing in collectibles

So your point is not to send a great looking book into a 3 party grader if you feel the book is too brittle? So long cgc golden-age graded books! I would tend to believe a 3rd party grader would have the neccessary tools to handel "brittle" books but maybe I'm being optimistic here.

The issue is that this individual claimed to have a nice (near mint) book and sent it to cgc. When the book came back it had a hugs spine split. The only questions here are 1) was it split before sending? 2) did the post office have anything to do with it? 3) did cgc make a mistake in the handling of a customers property?

Escaflown4 · Post by **Escaflown4** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:21 pm

CGC charges alot more to grade books older then 1975, which applies to Golden and Silver Age era. I would assume they have the common sense to handle those books more carefully. Even if this guy is telling the true story, I would weigh the risk of whether it is worth sending a brittle book in. However this looks more of a case of greed where he was hoping to score more $$ to get it graded.

CGC is not perfect either and I'm sure they must have run into some mistakes. I don't know how they handle these issues, but I hope I don't have to go through the drama. I sure as hell won't be as calm as this guy.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:25 pm

whetteon wrote:
So your point is not to send a great looking book into a 3 party grader if you feel the book is too brittle? So long cgc golden-age graded books! I would tend to believe a 3rd party grader would have the neccessary tools to handel "brittle" books but maybe I'm being optimistic here.

The issue is that this individual claimed to have a nice (near mint) book and sent it to cgc. When the book came back it had a hugs spine split. The only questions here are 1) was it split before sending? 2) did the post office have anything to do with it? 3) did cgc make a mistake in the handling of a customers property?

If the book was brittle enough to split...it wasn't 9.4 to begin with. It doesn't matter HOW 'non-worn' the covers may look, if it's so brittle mere handling by professionals will split the spine...it's in BAD shape.

That's just the reality.

You can leave a flawless book out in the hot AZ summer sun, and after about 3 weeks, it will be so brittle it will crumble to pieces, no matter HOW non worn it may have been.

Is it possible CGC did it? Sure.

Is it likely? Nope.

Peter Parker · Post by **Peter Parker** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:05 pm

Whett...

what are you talking about regarding "saying goodbye" to Golden Age books being submitted

I own roughly 24 golden age slabs, and NONE of them have "brittle" paper

Sure, some have "off-white pages" I may even possess one with "tanning" pages...but no where NEAR what you're assuming.

Ultimately, yes, older the book the more oxidation the book will have, but it always comes down to storage and proper handling of the books.

As a further point, I own a CGC NM 9.4 Amazing Spider-Man#51...and it has WHITE pages

...so, we have the same# book with vastly different storage lives, and that's what its all about.

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:30 am

Done a surface-scratch of reading on the issue (mainly topics off of web-site, mind you) and it looks like when CGC makes a mistake, they seem to go out of their way to make the situation right. It looks like this usually come in the form of cost-waived submissions.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:57 pm

The most spectacular mistake I've ever seen CGC make was a Daredevil #4, graded universal 4.0 VG....

...with a non-story ad page missing.

Oops.

This was around 2001, and was being sold by Zillaf4. Apparently, THEY didn't catch it either, but I and others pointed it out, the book was removed for sale, and CGC made it right.

However....something to consider is this: the ad page missing WAS mentioned on the label...it was just a clerical error that this was printed on a UNIVERSAL label rather than a QUALIFIED label, where it belonged. So it's not as if CGC was trying to 'hide' something for someone.

Yes, it begs the question of 'well, what if the missing page wasn't ON the label?

Couple of things about that: the first thing CGC does when it receives a book is a page count. If there are pages missing, they know right off the bat. ALL books are page counted (or, at least, that's policy, and have no reason to doubt it at this time.)

If a missing page DID slip by, the book is slabbed, so the odds of it being discovered are VERY, VERY low.

If it IS discovered....well, A. I'm sure it would have to be proven, and B. if it was, I don't doubt that CGC would take steps to correct it.

They're just not in the business to make 'mistakes' on 'purpose'.

mrwoogieman · Post by **mrwoogieman** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:37 pm

I've tested them twice with some iffy books and they passed both times.

First, I sent in a Batman 13 with a page out. It was an ad page, thought I'd get a qualified, but they chose Poor .5 instead.

Second, I sent in a Marvel Mystery Comics 51 with a married centerfold. They caught that too, Qualified 5.0.

Many, many people get burned with the early Amazing Spider-Man issues that have pin-ups that have been clipped out and forgotten about.

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:56 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:The most spectacular mistake I've ever seen CGC make was a Daredevil #4, graded universal 4.0 VG....

...with a non-story ad page missing.

Oops.

This was around 2001, and was being sold by Zillaf4. Apparently, THEY didn't catch it either, but I and others pointed it out, the book was removed for sale, and CGC made it right.

However....something to consider is this: the ad page missing WAS mentioned on the label...it was just a clerical error that this was printed on a UNIVERSAL label rather than a QUALIFIED label, where it belonged. So it's not as if CGC was trying to 'hide' something for someone.

Yes, it begs the question of 'well, what if the missing page wasn't ON the label?

Couple of things about that: the first thing CGC does when it receives a book is a page count. If there are pages missing, they know right off the bat. ALL books are page counted (or, at least, that's policy, and have no reason to doubt it at this time.)

If a missing page DID slip by, the book is slabbed, so the odds of it being discovered are VERY, VERY low.

If it IS discovered....well, A. I'm sure it would have to be proven, and B. if it was, I don't doubt that CGC would take steps to correct it.

They're just not in the business to make 'mistakes' on 'purpose'.

yeah and as I recall they didnt just give the guy a free sub, I think the they gave the guy a complete DD #4 in atleast 4.0 condition. Yeah they dont just make things right, they make things better...part of the reason the have the rep they do...