Spider Aliens

[Chiclo]

On Earth, one single spider can give birth to millions of spiders (Charlotte's Web, for instance).

Ok, sure. I kinda remember that from the comics.

In VALIANT comics, we saw that Spider Aliens hives have queens.

I remember that too. Good so far.

The Spider Alien government would therefore be made up of queens, one queen for each species of spider in the race.

Ah, an assumption. I believe it's possible but don't accept this as fact. It is a logical leap for a possible form of government but there's no evidence to support this.

These aren't terrestrial beings. It is difficult to make any statements derived from the comics and not taken directly from the comics and accept those statements as facts about the spider aliens because they are not terrestrial beings and all we know about, all the beings, spiders and forms of government with which we are familiar are terrestrial.

The alien government could be like the government in an ant colony, where the queen gives the orders. It could be a government based more on what we see in nature than what we see in civilization.

Yes, it could be. I don't dispute that it could be, but I don't believe that we can say that that is the way it works.

They are aliens. Their form of government could be something we don't know about and haven't heard about on Earth before. It could be something we haven't seen before in nature or in civilization.

[cjv]

On Earth, one single spider can give birth to millions of spiders (Charlotte's Web, for instance).

Ok, sure. I kinda remember that from the comics.

In VALIANT comics, we saw that Spider Aliens hives have queens.

I remember that too. Good so far.

The Spider Alien government would therefore be made up of queens, one queen for each species of spider in the race.

Ah, an assumption. I believe it's possible but don't accept this as fact. It is a logical leap for a possible form of government but there's no evidence to support this.

These aren't terrestrial beings. It is difficult to make any statements derived from the comics and not taken directly from the comics and accept those statements as facts about the spider aliens because they are not terrestrial beings and all we know about, all the beings, spiders and forms of government with which we are familiar are terrestrial.

The alien government could be like the government in an ant colony, where the queen gives the orders. It could be a government based more on what we see in nature than what we see in civilization.

Yes, it could be. I don't dispute that it could be, but I don't believe that we can say that that is the way it works.

They are aliens. Their form of government could be something we don't know about and haven't heard about on Earth before. It could be something we haven't seen before in nature or in civilization.

[ManofTheAtom]

Again, just because they are called spider aliens does not mean they are the same as earth spiders. They are called that simply because of some similarities..they are not "spiders".

Yes they are. Read the comics. In Eternal Warrior we saw a giant spider alien queen in her nest.

Spider are an earth creature, evolved on our planet. Something from another planet could appear spider-like, behave in a similar fashion, but they aren't "spiders".

From another comic book, that would be like calling a pink-Kree a human, because they look and behave like humans...but they aren't.

Yes, we did see that in a few comics (again emphasizing that they are not like earth spiders). However, that's doesn't say anything about their political structure. The queens "may" be in charge, or perhaps they are only in charge of breeding or something.

They are in charge. Read the comics

We saw them in charge of where they are. We don't know anything about their homeworld. You can, if you want, ASSUME they are in charge on the hoemworld as well, but there is no evidence of it.

The queen is the highest position of power in their culture.

According to your logic, when the US attacked the Germany in WWII, the Germans would say that Eisenhower was in charge of EVERYTHING in the US, simply because he was the head general. But he wasn't. Maybe the queens are their "head generals".

Do you understand that there is potenntially a difference in heirarchy between an invading force (which we saw here on Earth) and the political structure "back at home".

Chris

The First Among Equals are the "generals". The queens are just that, queens. Rulers.

There is no evidence to suggest that the apperance of a queen in EW is not indicative of how their entire cultrue works.

[ManofTheAtom]

On Earth, one single spider can give birth to millions of spiders (Charlotte's Web, for instance).

Ok, sure. I kinda remember that from the comics.

In VALIANT comics, we saw that Spider Aliens hives have queens.

I remember that too. Good so far.

The Spider Alien government would therefore be made up of queens, one queen for each species of spider in the race.

Ah, an assumption. I believe it's possible but don't accept this as fact. It is a logical leap for a possible form of government but there's no evidence to support this.

These aren't terrestrial beings. It is difficult to make any statements derived from the comics and not taken directly from the comics and accept those statements as facts about the spider aliens because they are not terrestrial beings and all we know about, all the beings, spiders and forms of government with which we are familiar are terrestrial.

The alien government could be like the government in an ant colony, where the queen gives the orders. It could be a government based more on what we see in nature than what we see in civilization.

Yes, it could be. I don't dispute that it could be, but I don't believe that we can say that that is the way it works.

They are aliens. Their form of government could be something we don't know about and haven't heard about on Earth before. It could be something we haven't seen before in nature or in civilization.

Sure.

[Chiclo]

Again, just because they are called spider aliens does not mean they are the same as earth spiders. They are called that simply because of some similarities..they are not "spiders".

Yes they are. Read the comics. In Eternal Warrior we saw a giant spider alien queen in her nest.

Spider are an earth creature, evolved on our planet. Something from another planet could appear spider-like, behave in a similar fashion, but they aren't "spiders".

From another comic book, that would be like calling a pink-Kree a human, because they look and behave like humans...but they aren't.

Yes, we did see that in a few comics (again emphasizing that they are not like earth spiders). However, that's doesn't say anything about their political structure. The queens "may" be in charge, or perhaps they are only in charge of breeding or something.

They are in charge. Read the comics

We saw them in charge of where they are. We don't know anything about their homeworld. You can, if you want, ASSUME they are in charge on the hoemworld as well, but there is no evidence of it.

The queen is the highest position of power in their culture.

According to your logic, when the US attacked the Germany in WWII, the Germans would say that Eisenhower was in charge of EVERYTHING in the US, simply because he was the head general. But he wasn't. Maybe the queens are their "head generals".

Do you understand that there is potenntially a difference in heirarchy between an invading force (which we saw here on Earth) and the political structure "back at home".

Chris

The First Among Equals are the "generals". The queens are just that, queens. Rulers.

There is no evidence to suggest that the apperance of a queen in EW is not indicative of how their entire cultrue works.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

There is no evidence to suggest either way that the political structure on their homeworld is or is not like what we saw in their invading forces.

[ManofTheAtom]

Again, just because they are called spider aliens does not mean they are the same as earth spiders. They are called that simply because of some similarities..they are not "spiders".

Yes they are. Read the comics. In Eternal Warrior we saw a giant spider alien queen in her nest.

Spider are an earth creature, evolved on our planet. Something from another planet could appear spider-like, behave in a similar fashion, but they aren't "spiders".

From another comic book, that would be like calling a pink-Kree a human, because they look and behave like humans...but they aren't.

Yes, we did see that in a few comics (again emphasizing that they are not like earth spiders). However, that's doesn't say anything about their political structure. The queens "may" be in charge, or perhaps they are only in charge of breeding or something.

They are in charge. Read the comics

We saw them in charge of where they are. We don't know anything about their homeworld. You can, if you want, ASSUME they are in charge on the hoemworld as well, but there is no evidence of it.

The queen is the highest position of power in their culture.

According to your logic, when the US attacked the Germany in WWII, the Germans would say that Eisenhower was in charge of EVERYTHING in the US, simply because he was the head general. But he wasn't. Maybe the queens are their "head generals".

Do you understand that there is potenntially a difference in heirarchy between an invading force (which we saw here on Earth) and the political structure "back at home".

Chris

The First Among Equals are the "generals". The queens are just that, queens. Rulers.

There is no evidence to suggest that the apperance of a queen in EW is not indicative of how their entire cultrue works.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

There is no evidence to suggest either way that the political structure on their homeworld is or is not like what we saw in their invading forces.

The invading forces didn't show us the government, they showed us the generals.

The only glimpse we ever had of a spider alien ruler was the queen in EW (though maybe I'm forgetting more, I don't recall).

[Chiclo]

Again, just because they are called spider aliens does not mean they are the same as earth spiders. They are called that simply because of some similarities..they are not "spiders".

Yes they are. Read the comics. In Eternal Warrior we saw a giant spider alien queen in her nest.

Spider are an earth creature, evolved on our planet. Something from another planet could appear spider-like, behave in a similar fashion, but they aren't "spiders".

From another comic book, that would be like calling a pink-Kree a human, because they look and behave like humans...but they aren't.

Yes, we did see that in a few comics (again emphasizing that they are not like earth spiders). However, that's doesn't say anything about their political structure. The queens "may" be in charge, or perhaps they are only in charge of breeding or something.

They are in charge. Read the comics

We saw them in charge of where they are. We don't know anything about their homeworld. You can, if you want, ASSUME they are in charge on the hoemworld as well, but there is no evidence of it.

The queen is the highest position of power in their culture.

According to your logic, when the US attacked the Germany in WWII, the Germans would say that Eisenhower was in charge of EVERYTHING in the US, simply because he was the head general. But he wasn't. Maybe the queens are their "head generals".

Do you understand that there is potenntially a difference in heirarchy between an invading force (which we saw here on Earth) and the political structure "back at home".

Chris

The First Among Equals are the "generals". The queens are just that, queens. Rulers.

There is no evidence to suggest that the apperance of a queen in EW is not indicative of how their entire cultrue works.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

There is no evidence to suggest either way that the political structure on their homeworld is or is not like what we saw in their invading forces.

The invading forces didn't show us the government, they showed us the generals.

The only glimpse we ever had of a spider alien ruler was the queen in EW (though maybe I'm forgetting more, I don't recall).

And that was both my and cjv's point in the first place.

We don't know about their culture, only their warriors.

[ManofTheAtom]

Yes they are. Read the comics. In Eternal Warrior we saw a giant spider alien queen in her nest.

Spider are an earth creature, evolved on our planet. Something from another planet could appear spider-like, behave in a similar fashion, but they aren't "spiders".

From another comic book, that would be like calling a pink-Kree a human, because they look and behave like humans...but they aren't.

They are in charge. Read the comics

We saw them in charge of where they are. We don't know anything about their homeworld. You can, if you want, ASSUME they are in charge on the hoemworld as well, but there is no evidence of it.

The queen is the highest position of power in their culture.

According to your logic, when the US attacked the Germany in WWII, the Germans would say that Eisenhower was in charge of EVERYTHING in the US, simply because he was the head general. But he wasn't. Maybe the queens are their "head generals".

Do you understand that there is potenntially a difference in heirarchy between an invading force (which we saw here on Earth) and the political structure "back at home".

Chris

The First Among Equals are the "generals". The queens are just that, queens. Rulers.

There is no evidence to suggest that the apperance of a queen in EW is not indicative of how their entire cultrue works.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

There is no evidence to suggest either way that the political structure on their homeworld is or is not like what we saw in their invading forces.

The invading forces didn't show us the government, they showed us the generals.

The only glimpse we ever had of a spider alien ruler was the queen in EW (though maybe I'm forgetting more, I don't recall).

And that was both my and cjv's point in the first place.

We don't know about their culture, only their warriors.

And what was in EW. That can't be ignored.

[cjv]

That queen was still part of an invading force.

Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

That queen was still part of an invading force.

Chris

There's no indication of that. They were a hive, there was nothing to suggest that they were invaders (that I recall offhand. I'd have to check if there's a line or something that might mention that, but I don't recall)

[cjv]

That queen was still part of an invading force.

Chris

There's no indication of that. They were a hive, there was nothing to suggest that they were invaders (that I recall offhand. I'd have to check if there's a line or something that might mention that, but I don't recall)

Unless you think Earth was their homeworld or that they were here just as tourists, than ANY spider alien we see is an invader.

Chris

[slym2none]

Hivemind...





-slym

[ManofTheAtom]

That queen was still part of an invading force.

Chris

There's no indication of that. They were a hive, there was nothing to suggest that they were invaders (that I recall offhand. I'd have to check if there's a line or something that might mention that, but I don't recall)

Unless you think Earth was their homeworld, than ANY spider alien we see is an invader.

Chris

They seemed more primitive than the spider aliens we've seen in the present or future. They hardly seemed like an invading force.

If they had the technology back then that they showed in the present, then they could have easily taken over the planet.

[Chiclo]

That queen was still part of an invading force.

Chris

There's no indication of that. They were a hive, there was nothing to suggest that they were invaders (that I recall offhand. I'd have to check if there's a line or something that might mention that, but I don't recall)

Unless you think Earth was their homeworld, than ANY spider alien we see is an invader.

Chris

They seemed more primitive than the spider aliens we've seen in the present or future. They hardly seemed like an invading force.

If they had the technology back then that they showed in the present, then they could have easily taken over the planet.

If I had the technology I have now back then, I could have taken over the world. Or at least the Alamo would have gone a little differently. We still took the coward Santa Ana prisoner at San Jacinto.

It's the basic idea behind Pax Romana by Image. Except they go back and support... Constantine? Justinian? Nonetheless, much more of the world falls under the Byzantine banner.

[cjv]

Tt is possible that it might have been a spaceship that accidentilly crashed or something.

But it is also possible that they were simply advanced scouts.

Given that the aliens were invading the planet 3000 (4000?, whatever the number is) years later, I lean to the side that would say it was not a coincidence that they were here.

Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

Tt is possible that it might have been a spaceship that accidentilly crashed or something.

But it is also possible that they were simply advanced scouts.

Given that the aliens were invading the planet 3000 (4000?, whatever the number is) years later, I lean to the side that would say it was not a coincidence that they were here.

Chris

I lean to believe that it was in fact a failed expedition that crashed, which is why they lacked the technology to conquer the planet 5,000 years ago.

I'll have to check what the dialogue says about them... or you could do it. Be the exception, chris. OPEN one of your comics and check

[magnusr]

I'll have to check what the dialogue says about them...

Didn't find much useful. Just this dialogue from Timewalker 0 (between Jahk'rt and a spider alien) that contradicts the feeling of isolation one gets from the rest of the story: "Why we trust you is beyond me" "Because your chairman wishes it" "Our chairman is old and on another planet" That could also give some insight about their chain of command. In the story in Eternal Warrior the queen seems to be in command.

/Magnus

[ManofTheAtom]

I'll have to check what the dialogue says about them...

Didn't find much useful. Just this dialogue from Timewalker 0 (between Jahk'rt and a spider alien) that contradicts the feeling of isolation one gets from the rest of the story: "Why we trust you is beyond me" "Because your chairman wishes it" "Our chairman is old and on another planet" That could also give some insight about their chain of command. In the story in Eternal Warrior the queen seems to be in command.

/Magnus

Could chairman refer to a First?

[UnknownTales]

a and a queen are completely different social leadership structures.

[cjv]

a and a queen are completely different social leadership structures.

(I assume you mean" a chairman and a queen")

on Earth. Can't relate that to an alien societal structure.

Again, we can try to use earth terminology or words to get across a meaning (ie, calling the spider aliens "Spiders") but it is an alien society/culture, and may be completely different from what we expect.

Chris

[cjv]

I'll have to check what the dialogue says about them...

Didn't find much useful. Just this dialogue from Timewalker 0 (between Jahk'rt and a spider alien) that contradicts the feeling of isolation one gets from the rest of the story: "Why we trust you is beyond me" "Because your chairman wishes it" "Our chairman is old and on another planet" That could also give some insight about their chain of command. In the story in Eternal Warrior the queen seems to be in command.

/Magnus

Could chairman refer to a First?

Why wasn't he called a "first" then?

Maybe the spider alien is more "corporate" than we thought.

Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

I'll have to check what the dialogue says about them...

Didn't find much useful. Just this dialogue from Timewalker 0 (between Jahk'rt and a spider alien) that contradicts the feeling of isolation one gets from the rest of the story: "Why we trust you is beyond me" "Because your chairman wishes it" "Our chairman is old and on another planet" That could also give some insight about their chain of command. In the story in Eternal Warrior the queen seems to be in command.

/Magnus

Could chairman refer to a First?

Why wasn't he called a "first" then?

Maybe the spider alien is more "corporate" than we thought.

Chris

For the same reason that there was a character called Neville Sinclair in Eternal Warrior even though such a character didn't exist, editorial incompetence? Lack of attention?

[cjv]

[ManofTheAtom]

Maybe when VEI reprints those issues they'll fix it. They probably can't alter the art to replace "Neville Sinclair", but maybe they can give him a new name.

And when they reprint the issue that mentions the chairman, they can replace it with "First"

[cjv]

If it really is a mistake.

Or perhaps it isn't a mistake...

Chris