Lesser Titles???

[Elveen]

Is there a plan for the quantumandwoody material? I really want some new stuff.

I would be postivie that VEI has plans for Q&W. Too much of a fan base to not use them.

[Drift]

I would personally like to own a full set of everything Valiant put out in HC format as I think it is superb but, for some people, $25 is too much in one hit.

I would say, as mentioned earlier, a TPB release would receive a better return than an HC release on the lesser titles.

It is far easier to persuade people to spend $25 on 2 items than it is on one even if the quality of one is so much higher than the others.

[Cyberstrike]

I think the lesser titles like The Second Life of Dr. Mirage, Timewalker,
Aromines, and Hard CORPS could do better being reprinted in digest-sized TPBs priced around $10.
BTBPH I think that even at $10 it's asking a lot for fans to buy books that are considered "awful" by most critics, creators, and fans.

[ManofTheAtom]

I think the lesser titles like The Second Life of Dr. Mirage, Timewalker,
Aromines, and Hard CORPS could do better being reprinted in digest-sized TPBs priced around $10.
BTBPH I think that even at $10 it's asking a lot for fans to buy books that are considered "awful" by most critics, creators, and fans.

EEEEEEWWWWW

[Elveen]

I think the lesser titles like The Second Life of Dr. Mirage, Timewalker,
Aromines, and Hard CORPS could do better being reprinted in digest-sized TPBs priced around $10.
BTBPH I think that even at $10 it's asking a lot for fans to buy books that are considered "awful" by most critics, creators, and fans.

That sounds good. I would like a full size, but $10 sounds about right.

[ManofTheAtom]

The message that VEI would be sending if they did that would be that the properties are of lesser value than the ones they are releasing in hardcovers.

VEI has to handle all their properties equally, not based on how a no longer existing market responded to them over a decade ago.

[yardstick]

If done right (due to the similarities), Armorines could be the next GI Joe and Timewalker an American Dr Who.

I like the parallels described here...

[yardstick]

Like I just said, test the waters first by giving them guest appearances in one of the popular titles. If the response is good, then go from there. It's just that simple.

Btw, one thing I liked about VALIANT (which was mention at CBR) was how guest apperances were not hyped on the cover or in solicits. They happened organically (like, you didn't see Shadowman's name on the cover of XO 4).

Hyped guest apperances for the sake of forcibly making a concept popular aren't the way VALIANT should do it.

I liked how there was a small cover blurb when there was a guest appearance. Not advertising it is a nice move though...

[Elveen]

The message that VEI would be sending if they did that would be that the properties are of lesser value than the ones they are releasing in hardcovers.

VEI has to handle all their properties equally, not based on how a no longer existing market responded to them over a decade ago.

I disagree. IMO, it would be foolish to release a Psi-Lords HC. And equally as foolish NOT to release a Shadowman HC.

Business NEVER treat all of their products the same. The bigger sellers, the most popular, always get more $$$ for advertising.


Think of TV shows. Does every TV show get the same amount of commercials? No.

[ManofTheAtom]

The message that VEI would be sending if they did that would be that the properties are of lesser value than the ones they are releasing in hardcovers.

VEI has to handle all their properties equally, not based on how a no longer existing market responded to them over a decade ago.

I disagree. IMO, it would be foolish to release a Psi-Lords HC. And equally as foolish NOT to release a Shadowman HC.

Business NEVER treat all of their products the same. The bigger sellers, the most popular, always get more $$$ for advertising.


Think of TV shows. Does every TV show get the same amount of commercials? No.

So VEI should decide what they publish based on a popularity contest?

That's how we ended up with a goat one shot and a goat action figure, because the goat was the most popular character Nicieza had, then he whined to Wizard that no one was buying Turok.

[ManofTheAtom]

If done right (due to the similarities), Armorines could be the next GI Joe and Timewalker an American Dr Who.

I like the parallels described here...

It be cool to have Armorines toys and stuff like that. There's a lot of potential with that concept.

[Elveen]

The message that VEI would be sending if they did that would be that the properties are of lesser value than the ones they are releasing in hardcovers.

VEI has to handle all their properties equally, not based on how a no longer existing market responded to them over a decade ago.

I disagree. IMO, it would be foolish to release a Psi-Lords HC. And equally as foolish NOT to release a Shadowman HC.

Business NEVER treat all of their products the same. The bigger sellers, the most popular, always get more $$$ for advertising.


Think of TV shows. Does every TV show get the same amount of commercials? No.

So VEI should decide what they publish based on a popularity contest?

That's how we ended up with a goat one shot and a goat action figure, because the goat was the most popular character Nicieza had, then he whined to Wizard that no one was buying Turok.

No.

Read what I said. I said they should publish all of the material.(this is my opinion) But not all books need to be treated the same way.

If I owned a business and I had 4 products. Three of my products sold well (sell well = popularity with consumers, that is Econ 101, demand for a product = popularity in the eye of the consumer), and the 4th one, not so much.

Should I treat all of my products equally? Should I spend the same amount of my resources equally on each product?

Should I?


That would be dumb. On my resources that I spent on the 3 good selling products, I would get a great return on my investment. Why? Cause they are popular with consumers. On the 4th, I would not get a good return. Why? They are not popular with consumers. Why would I purposly NOT maximize my resources?

I am not saying to not re-publish all of the books. I am saying to re-publish all of the books, all of them. But for the books that ARE not as good (based on the popularity of the books then and now, by us, VALIANT fans), why loose $$$$ by making a HC, put out a cheap trade instead.

Also,

I was not reading the books during the Accliam years...... and really, that was back then, not now. Thing ARE different. Who cares about FN or the GOAT, or what ever stuff went on back then. This is a different time, with different consumers, a different market, and so on......

And what if VEI did release a GOAT book. And it was well written, and well drawn, and well recieved. It sold well and made them $$$$. And everyone wrote in and said, "The GOAT is my favorite character." And the #s and the $$$ back it up.

Shouldn't VEI make GOAT books? They better.

VEI, is all about 1 thing. Making money. If the GOAT makes them $$$. Believe me, there will be GOAT books.


Now.......... please listen. I do not care about the GOAT one way of the other. I read some of the GOAT book, it was.......

I am not saying this is what I want. What I want is VEI to make great stories with the characters that I love.

But I need them to be sucessful in order to do that. And to VEI, sucess is based on one thing, and one thing only. MONEY.

So whatever they have to do to make $$$, they should do it.

If it is not the "VALIANT" that you want, or I want, or the "VALIANT" that was, or even that you/or I think it should be...... none of that matters.



VALIANT is going to be new and different. I for one am excited for it.

So we'll see.......................

[ManofTheAtom]

If I owned a business and I had 4 products. Three of my products sold well (sell well = popularity with consumers, that is Econ 101, demand for a product = popularity in the eye of the consumer), and the 4th one, not so much.

Should I treat all of my products equally? Should I spend the same amount of my resources equally on each product?

Should I?

You're analyzing today's market using a market model from 13 years ago.

You don't know how people will react to Armorines and Timewalker TODAY. TODAY they might like them MORE than they did 13 years ago. The only way to know for sure if to expose the audience to them, and doing it with subpar produce like 10 dollar cheap trades isn't the way to do it. That kind of printing would be a reflection of lack of faith from the publisher in the properties.

That would be dumb. On my resources that I spent on the 3 good selling products, I would get a great return on my investment. Why? Cause they are popular with consumers. On the 4th, I would not get a good return. Why? They are not popular with consumers. Why would I purposly NOT maximize my resources?

Once again, you can't define what will be popular today based on what wasn't popular 13 years ago.

I am not saying to not re-publish all of the books. I am saying to re-publish all of the books, all of them. But for the books that ARE not as good (based on the popularity of the books then and now, by us, VALIANT fans), why loose $$$$ by making a HC, put out a cheap trade instead.

The VALIANT fans will not decide VEI's future. Just because people here did not like Armorines and Timewalker it doesn't mean that people who never read them the first time around won't find them interesting.

VEI can't publish based on what the members of this board will like.

I was not reading the books during the Accliam years...... and really, that was back then, not now. Thing ARE different. Who cares about FN or the GOAT, or what ever stuff went on back then. This is a different time, with different consumers, a different market, and so on......

Yet you keep saying that it'll react to Armorines and Timewalker the same way it did 13 years ago. Make up your mind.

And what if VEI did release a GOAT book. And it was well written, and well drawn, and well recieved. It sold well and made them $$$$. And everyone wrote in and said, "The GOAT is my favorite character." And the #s and the $$$ back it up.

No, no. Get your facts right. The one shot was published because Nicieza thought that the Goat was popular enough to warrant it.

Shouldn't VEI make GOAT books? They better.

VEI, is all about 1 thing. Making money. If the GOAT makes them $$$. Believe me, there will be GOAT books.


Now.......... please listen. I do not care about the GOAT one way of the other. I read some of the GOAT book, it was.......

I am not saying this is what I want. What I want is VEI to make great stories with the characters that I love.

But I need them to be sucessful in order to do that. And to VEI, sucess is based on one thing, and one thing only. MONEY.

So whatever they have to do to make $$$, they should do it.

If it is not the "VALIANT" that you want, or I want, or the "VALIANT" that was, or even that you/or I think it should be...... none of that matters.

So VEI should target the lowest commun denominator? Gee, they might as well just publish a comic with Faith (from VH 2) in a bikini having a lesbian party. Hell, why make it a comic at all, they could hire models and make it a photo comic. Get Vanhook to do it like the Baywatch magazine.

That will make them more money than any hardcover with the most popular VALIANT character ever would.

Yes, they want to make money, and they want to do it using the VALIANT characters, not pandering to goat lovers.

[QWfanSD]

Has anyone asked priest if he will work on the new books?

[ManofTheAtom]

Has anyone asked priest if he will work on the new books?

No idea.

Last thing that Priest said in relation to Q&W was that he expected Valiant Intelectual Properties (a rival company that tried to steal the trademarks for the VALIANT characters) to publish the comic, or something like that.

[Drift]

You don't know how people will react to Armorines and Timewalker TODAY. TODAY they might like them MORE than they did 13 years ago. The only way to know for sure if to expose the audience to them, and doing it with subpar produce like 10 dollar cheap trades isn't the way to do it. That kind of printing would be a reflection of lack of faith from the publisher in the properties.

Whilst true that we cannot gauge the reactions of the public now based on what happened 13 years ago, what better way to expose them to the material than by giving them a more affordable product?

I know that if I were to visit a LCS with the intention of trying something new and the owner said, "Hey, why don't you give this a go?" I would be more likely to pick up a $10 TPB than a $25 HC.

[ManofTheAtom]

You don't know how people will react to Armorines and Timewalker TODAY. TODAY they might like them MORE than they did 13 years ago. The only way to know for sure if to expose the audience to them, and doing it with subpar produce like 10 dollar cheap trades isn't the way to do it. That kind of printing would be a reflection of lack of faith from the publisher in the properties.

Whilst true that we cannot gauge the reactions of the public now based on what happened 13 years ago, what better way to expose them to the material than by giving them a more affordable product?

I know that if I were to visit a LCS with the intention of trying something new and the owner said, "Hey, why don't you give this a go?" I would be more likely to pick up a $10 TPB than a $25 HC.

You'd be better off buying it online, where for four to eight dollars more (depending on what online retailer you use) you can get the hc you can't buy at the LCS.

Marvel does hardcovers with a cover price of like 20 dollars or something that I get from Mailorder for 12 dollars after the discount.

If you shop smart, you can find the 25 dollar hcs online for much less than cover price.

[Drift]

You don't know how people will react to Armorines and Timewalker TODAY. TODAY they might like them MORE than they did 13 years ago. The only way to know for sure if to expose the audience to them, and doing it with subpar produce like 10 dollar cheap trades isn't the way to do it. That kind of printing would be a reflection of lack of faith from the publisher in the properties.

Whilst true that we cannot gauge the reactions of the public now based on what happened 13 years ago, what better way to expose them to the material than by giving them a more affordable product?

I know that if I were to visit a LCS with the intention of trying something new and the owner said, "Hey, why don't you give this a go?" I would be more likely to pick up a $10 TPB than a $25 HC.

You'd be better off buying it online, where for four to eight dollars more (depending on what online retailer you use) you can get the hc you can't buy at the LCS.

Marvel does hardcovers with a cover price of like 20 dollars or something that I get from Mailorder for 12 dollars after the discount.

If you shop smart, you can find the 25 dollar hcs online for much less than cover price.

That means I can find TPBs cheaper too and I would still be more willing to try a cheaper, more affordable TPB if I were trying a new title that I had never heard of (and let's face it, after being out of production for 13 years there are going to be a hell of a lot of people who haven't heard of Valiant) than I would a more expensive HC and knowing my customer-base as a retailer, I know for a fact that 95% of them would go for the cheaper option as well.

From a retail perspective TPBs are the way forward because they are more affordable, with a run of HCs for those people that want the quality they get from an HC or for those that want to treat themselves occasionally.

[ManofTheAtom]

That means I can find TPBs cheaper too and I would still be more willing to try a cheaper, more affordable TPB if I were trying a new title that I had never heard of (and let's face it, after being out of production for 13 years there are going to be a hell of a lot of people who haven't heard of Valiant) than I would a more expensive HC and knowing my customer-base as a retailer, I know for a fact that 95% of them would go for the cheaper option as well.

From a retail perspective TPBs are the way forward because they are more affordable, with a run of HCs for those people that want the quality they get from an HC or for those that want to treat themselves occasionally.

The problem I'm seeing here is that all of your opinions are based on your first-hand experience with the comics 13 years ago.

No one here can say how people who were not alive back then or old enough to remember the comics when they came out will react to it.

You're all saying "well, since "I" didn't like them 13 years ago, no one will today, so VEI might as well print them in a cheap format like if it was crap".

[Drift]

That means I can find TPBs cheaper too and I would still be more willing to try a cheaper, more affordable TPB if I were trying a new title that I had never heard of (and let's face it, after being out of production for 13 years there are going to be a hell of a lot of people who haven't heard of Valiant) than I would a more expensive HC and knowing my customer-base as a retailer, I know for a fact that 95% of them would go for the cheaper option as well.

From a retail perspective TPBs are the way forward because they are more affordable, with a run of HCs for those people that want the quality they get from an HC or for those that want to treat themselves occasionally.

The problem I'm seeing here is that all of your opinions are based on your first-hand experience with the comics 13 years ago.

No one here can say how people who were not alive back then or old enough to remember the comics when they came out will react to it.

You're all saying "well, since "I" didn't like them 13 years ago, no one will today, so VEI might as well print them in a cheap format like if it was crap".

Where the hell did I say any of that.

I agreed with you that we cannot gauge how the public will react to comics printed 13 years ago.

I never anywhere said I didn't like them 13 years ago. I haven't even read the titles being discussed so I don't even know how I would react to them.

I said, as a retailer, I know my customer base are more likely to try a more affordable option than a more expensive option when it comes to trying new things and as the TPB is the more affordable of the two, it is the way forward.

More affordable means more sales. More sales means more interest. More interest leads to even more sales and even more money allowing you to put out more product. Believe it or not this is actually good for business as it allows for continued business.

[ManofTheAtom]

That means I can find TPBs cheaper too and I would still be more willing to try a cheaper, more affordable TPB if I were trying a new title that I had never heard of (and let's face it, after being out of production for 13 years there are going to be a hell of a lot of people who haven't heard of Valiant) than I would a more expensive HC and knowing my customer-base as a retailer, I know for a fact that 95% of them would go for the cheaper option as well.

From a retail perspective TPBs are the way forward because they are more affordable, with a run of HCs for those people that want the quality they get from an HC or for those that want to treat themselves occasionally.

The problem I'm seeing here is that all of your opinions are based on your first-hand experience with the comics 13 years ago.

No one here can say how people who were not alive back then or old enough to remember the comics when they came out will react to it.

You're all saying "well, since "I" didn't like them 13 years ago, no one will today, so VEI might as well print them in a cheap format like if it was crap".

Where the hell did I say any of that.

I agreed with you that we cannot gauge how the public will react to comics printed 13 years ago.

I never anywhere said I didn't like them 13 years ago. I haven't even read the titles being discussed so I don't even know how I would react to them.

I said, as a retailer, I know my customer base are more likely to try a more affordable option than a more expensive option when it comes to trying new things and as the TPB is the more affordable of the two, it is the way forward.

More affordable means more sales. More sales means more interest. More interest leads to even more sales and even more money allowing you to put out more product. Believe it or not this is actually good for business as it allows for continued business.

So, VEI has offered their most popular concepts in an expensive format that most people will avoid, but should offer their most unpopular and unknown concepts in a format that will sell through the roof?

That sounds like retarded business tactic.

You market what you know is more popular for 25 dollars and market what you know might not sell for 10 dollars.

How does that make sense?

Maybe, VEI will publish hardcovers for both kinds of concepts since whatever popularity and unpopularity they had 13 years ago is irrelevant today, and it's in their best interest to present ALL of their properties in the best format possible (not only in cost but also production values) so that readers will want to read them.

The 25 USD cover price is an SRP, a suggest retail price. Retailers don't pay 25 dollars for it, it's just what they can sell it for. They can choose to sell it for less, as online retailers do (of course, there are retailers who sell American products for more than they're worth, like here in Mexico, where we have LCSs that sell American comics for more than the legal exchange rate), or for the exact SRP.

[Cyberstrike]

The message that VEI would be sending if they did that would be that the properties are of lesser value than the ones they are releasing in hardcovers.

VEI has to handle all their properties equally, not based on how a no longer existing market responded to them over a decade ago.

I disagree. IMO, it would be foolish to release a Psi-Lords HC. And equally as foolish NOT to release a Shadowman HC.

Business NEVER treat all of their products the same. The bigger sellers, the most popular, always get more $$$ for advertising.


Think of TV shows. Does every TV show get the same amount of commercials? No.

So VEI should decide what they publish based on a popularity contest?

That's how we ended up with a goat one shot and a goat action figure, because the goat was the most popular character Nicieza had, then he whined to Wizard that no one was buying Turok.

That's how Corporate America works pal.
Look IDW publishes and sells Transformers comics, but they only sell comics based on G1, Beast Wars, The Live Action Movie, and Animated versions/continuities/timelines.
They don't sell comics based on Beast Machines, Robots in Disguise, Armada, Energon, Cybertron, Alternators, and Universe versions/continuities/timelines because IDW knows that won't sell due to fans not be as interested in Beast Machines, RiD, Armada, Energon, Cybertron, and the rest.

I mean hell Armada/Energon/Cybertron was only finished less than 2 years ago.

The simple truth is that most people don't like Valiant because of the lackluster quality of books like The Second Life of Dr. Mirage,
Timewalker, Armorines, Hard CORPs, PSI-Lords, and Geomancer.

I wouldn't pay $25 for hardcovers of those books because they simply aren't worth that price to me and nor would I recommend them to other
potential customers for two reasons:
1) They don't represent the best of Valiant Comics.
2) They're not worth the money to reprint them in hardcover because IMHO they suck and are no amount or digital re-coloring and lettering is going to change that.

Now I MIGHT pay and recommend them in an $10 digest size TPB, but only if I didn't have anything better to buy with that $10.

Now that's my opinion.

[Drift]

So, VEI has offered their most popular concepts in an expensive format that most people will avoid, but should offer their most unpopular and unknown concepts in a format that will sell through the roof?

No, VEI offered their most popular property on a direct sale only basis due to problems with distributors, in a format that would entice fans to pick the stuff up again and start to get the word out.

When the distribution problems were resolved, they continued to offer more of their popular properties to a wider audience because of the success their first release received.

It worked because they got those people that were already fans of the product to buy and start talking again and I don't just mean the people here.

The thing with this is, you refer to "their most popular concepts" despite pointing out repeatedly that we shouldn't judge based on previous popularity. VEI made the judgment call themselves to put out what had worked in the past. If they had thought, like you do, that people wouldn't judge because of the past why didn't they start by putting out a deluxe hardcover of Armorines or Armed and Dangerous or one of the other properties they own that didn't do so well in the past?

They have already acted in a way that is contradictory to what you are saying they should do in all but book format. They have taken what was previously the most popular concepts - whereas you say it shouldn't matter what they put out as we don't know how people will react - and marketed to existing fans and not new readers.

I think that VEI know what they are doing far better than you do and despite how you want them to act and what you want them to put out and in what format, in the end they will make their own decisions and they are more likely to be right.

[ManofTheAtom]

So, VEI has offered their most popular concepts in an expensive format that most people will avoid, but should offer their most unpopular and unknown concepts in a format that will sell through the roof?

No, VEI offered their most popular property on a direct sale only basis due to problems with distributors, in a format that would entice fans to pick the stuff up again and start to get the word out.

When the distribution problems were resolved, they continued to offer more of their popular properties to a wider audience because of the success their first release received.

It worked because they got those people that were already fans of the product to buy and start talking again and I don't just mean the people here.

The thing with this is, you refer to "their most popular concepts" despite pointing out repeatedly that we shouldn't judge based on previous popularity. VEI made the judgment call themselves to put out what had worked in the past. If they had thought, like you do, that people wouldn't judge because of the past why didn't they start by putting out a deluxe hardcover of Armorines or Armed and Dangerous or one of the other properties they own that didn't do so well in the past?

They have already acted in a way that is contradictory to what you are saying they should do in all but book format. They have taken what was previously the most popular concepts - whereas you say it shouldn't matter what they put out as we don't know how people will react - and marketed to existing fans and not new readers.

I think that VEI know what they are doing far better than you do and despite how you want them to act and what you want them to put out and in what format, in the end they will make their own decisions and they are more likely to be right.

You are aware that they are going to do an Armed & Dangerours color reprint (as per the colorists' comments from NYCC)?

What do you think the odds are that it'll be in a regular trade?

And clearly you haven't paid attention.

I said that VEI should release all their properties in the same format despite their popularity 13 years ago, which is what they seem to be doing.

[Drift]

So, VEI has offered their most popular concepts in an expensive format that most people will avoid, but should offer their most unpopular and unknown concepts in a format that will sell through the roof?

No, VEI offered their most popular property on a direct sale only basis due to problems with distributors, in a format that would entice fans to pick the stuff up again and start to get the word out.

When the distribution problems were resolved, they continued to offer more of their popular properties to a wider audience because of the success their first release received.

It worked because they got those people that were already fans of the product to buy and start talking again and I don't just mean the people here.

The thing with this is, you refer to "their most popular concepts" despite pointing out repeatedly that we shouldn't judge based on previous popularity. VEI made the judgment call themselves to put out what had worked in the past. If they had thought, like you do, that people wouldn't judge because of the past why didn't they start by putting out a deluxe hardcover of Armorines or Armed and Dangerous or one of the other properties they own that didn't do so well in the past?

They have already acted in a way that is contradictory to what you are saying they should do in all but book format. They have taken what was previously the most popular concepts - whereas you say it shouldn't matter what they put out as we don't know how people will react - and marketed to existing fans and not new readers.

I think that VEI know what they are doing far better than you do and despite how you want them to act and what you want them to put out and in what format, in the end they will make their own decisions and they are more likely to be right.

You are aware that they are going to do an Armed & Dangerours color reprint (as per the colorists' comments from NYCC)?

What do you think the odds are that it'll be in a regular trade?

And clearly you haven't paid attention.

I said that VEI should release all their properties in the same format despite their popularity 13 years ago, which is what they seem to be doing.

I wasn't aware they were doing an A&D book but it is irrelevant as I was using it as an example of a property they owned and it was in the context of what to put out first if previous performance wasn't an issue, which it obviously is or they wouldn't have done Harbinger first.

And I said they should make decisions on what to publish based on their own business plan and not based on your ideas because you obviously don't have a clue what general consumers want in a retail market.