Harbinger 1 cgc 9.6 Undervalued?

[soundoftheuniverse]

Out of all the graded books this one seems to me to be one of the better values ATM.

What do you guys think?

[X-O HoboJoe]

Yeah, I don't see the .2 diff. being worth $900. I haven't looked to see the CGC census (cue: Greg) but I'm pretty sure that most all the Harby Pinks have been taken care of since they came out. I've never seen one in a quarter bin, at least.

[soundoftheuniverse]

Bypassing the CGC process makes Harbie 1 9.6's soo sweet to me because someone else did ALL the legwork already. All that's left is paying the fair market value. Which has always been way off as I agree with Hobo that the .2 difference doesn't warrant such a gap in the prices.

No worries I'm not selling mine so this thread is all about your thoughts and oppinions not my profit.

[whetteon]

The 9.8 Harbinger #1's selling for $1,000's is an out-liner price in my opinion and it will soon come down to the $200ish when more graded copies come out. I think we had an arguement like this before in the past so I won't open old wounds.

Using that opinion as my grading scale balance I feel a Harbinger 9.6 is more around the $100 price. But I've always thought ALL 9.6's pre-unity's were under valued and 9.8's were over priced. I'm sure my thoughts are biased however as I have a decent amount of pre-unity cgc 9.6's in my collection.

[Peter Parker]

NM+ books from 1990-present, are as common as a cold Modern books won't hold any significant value in the future if not at LEAST 9.8 or above.

This is simply deductive logic based on facts...like it or not, so NO Harbie# 1 9.6 is not undervalued because at least 70% of them are 9.6 level books.

[whetteon]

NM+ books from 1990-present, are as common as a cold Modern books won't hold any significant value in the future if not at LEAST 9.8 or above.

This is simply deductive logic based on facts...like it or not, so NO Harbie# 1 9.6 is not undervalued because at least 70% of them are 9.6 level books.

Good point and one I've heard before.

[greg]

This post has been edited... derogatory remarks towards members
are not allowed (even as retaliation).

Back ON topic, I serious doubt that any 9.8 book is worthy of 10times 9.6 prices.

Time will tell whether even two-times prices are reasonable,
but I would say that 10times prices are unjustifiable.

Additionally, as Whet mentioned, the $1,000 mark for Harbinger #1 CGC 9.8
is likely to stand for a long time as the record price.
More copies have been found in 9.8 recently,
though I believe the printing process actually
caused many copies of this book to be 9.4 or lower
even when they were new.

[dino]

NM+ books from 1990-present, are as common as a cold Modern books won't hold any significant value in the future if not at LEAST 9.8 or above.

This is simply deductive logic based on facts...like it or not, so NO Harbie# 1 9.6 is not undervalued because at least 70% of them are 9.6 level books.

Do you mean 70% of modern books in general or 70% of harby 1 are 9.6
I've only seen about 50 or so harby 1's and I'm not a perfect grader but from that small sample only about 40% were 9.6s

[X-O HoboJoe]

D'OH!

Sorry, I got Harby 0 Pink into my head somehow.

Harby 1 is a diff. animal. With the printing defects, the lower print run plus the fact that it was a "regular" comic at first (therfore treated poorly by some) has to be considered. Take 3000 to 35000 away from the print run for the cut coupons for 0 pink and it narrows the field a bit too. This book might be one of those that commands the true 9.8 premium cost, and as long as you've got someone willing to pony up the jack your market is sustainable. I do think a lot of people will jump on a 9.6 esp. if it's half the cost or better.

So, all that just to say: HellifIknow . . .

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Take 3000 to 35000 away from the print run for the cut coupons for 0 pink and it narrows the field a bit too. :

Dude....35,000 copies had their coupons cut out? So I've got like 1% of the entire printrun with coupons? Cool.

[X-O HoboJoe]

Take 3000 to 35000 away from the print run for the cut coupons for 0 pink and it narrows the field a bit too. :

Dude....35,000 copies had their coupons cut out? So I've got like 1% of the entire printrun with coupons? Cool.

Damn extra "0."

[soundoftheuniverse]

NM+ books from 1990-present, are as common as a cold Modern books won't hold any significant value in the future if not at LEAST 9.8 or above.

This is simply deductive logic based on facts...like it or not, so NO Harbie# 1 9.6 is not undervalued because at least 70% of them are 9.6 level books.

I think a more accurate statement is that 70% of them are NOT 9.6 level books when describing Harbie 1's w/ coupon. But that's just been my experience so far.

Some of us TLC have very good luck with this book in high grade. Others not soo lucky.

[ckb]

Peter,

We know this is not the case with Harbinger 1. As I have stated before, and have direct experience with CGC pre-screening over 20 of them at this point, (30-40 if you include the ones that I screened out before submitting) most these books did not come off the presses in 9.6. I daresay most did not come off the press in 9.2.

Dino threw out 40% as 9.6s, I'd go with 10%. That still leaves potential 3000 or so 9.6s. And supply/demand takes over with the number actually in a slab and on the market.

All that being said, despite the production/bindery problems, saying any modern book with a print run of 30,000 is undervalued at $100 in 9.6 will always raise an eyebrow.

I don't know whether or not I think it's undervalued, but since I already have a 9.6 in my personal set, if I get any more they will be for sale. I guess that says something.

I do agree with you on the larger point, though. Especially with 1999+ books, where they were being handled like gold right off the presses. No one was wearing gloves with off-thre presses books in 1992, though.

NM+ books from 1990-present, are as common as a cold Modern books won't hold any significant value in the future if not at LEAST 9.8 or above.

This is simply deductive logic based on facts...like it or not, so NO Harbie# 1 9.6 is not undervalued because at least 70% of them are 9.6 level books.

[myron]

there is no way with the printing problems that they had with harb 1 and the print run, that 70% of that issue are 9.6...poor stock, bad corners...just not a possiblity...now if you are talking about submitted books, if people pre-grade as well as ZWH (I think we all realize the possiblity of that) then maybe 70% of the submitted will be 9.6...but even that is unlikely...

[soundoftheuniverse]

The 9.8 Harbinger #1's selling for $1,000's is an out-liner price in my opinion and it will soon come down to the $200ish when more graded copies come out. I think we had an arguement like this before in the past so I won't open old wounds.

Using that opinion as my grading scale balance I feel a Harbinger 9.6 is more around the $100 price. But I've always thought ALL 9.6's pre-unity's were under valued and 9.8's were over priced. I'm sure my thoughts are biased however as I have a decent amount of pre-unity cgc 9.6's in my collection.

Although I think it will be awhile before Harbie 1 in 9.8 is going for $200, I sincerely hope you're right

Looking at how so many other Pre Unity 9.8's have come down recently it would be nice to see Harbie 1 come down to the $300 level at least. *sheesh*

Seems like the oppinions thus far are that Harbie 1's in both 9.6 and 8 will be cooling down if more auction in the comming months.

[Peter Parker]

OK, to elaborate on the valid points made by CKB & Myron i've re-evaluated my position hey, we all suffer from cognitive dissonance ya know.

I'll give in to the opinion you guys expressed regarding the H# 1 numbers in HG. This because you obviously know more about Valiant books than I do, so i'll re-position my point.

The market for Valiant books is at best...small, and I say that with all do respect for the books, but its my opinion of the market. I'd say that even if H#1's in NM+9.6 are hard to find, its a $30.00 book selling for $100.00 or more, and as CKB correctly pointed out, that's hardly undervalued

Now H#1's in NM/M 9.8 grade have an intangible, and sustainable advantage in general within the modern market, ie. speculators/collectors of ALL kinds will consider the book based on its ultra HG level, and rarity at those levels. Personally for example, I will not buy ANY modern "slabbed" books that's not a NM/M 9.8 or higher grade. Why? simply because (IMO) slabbing these books in lower grades is not a long term prospect for me, I just don't see the value in the future.

Basically, in the end, I just feel the Harbinger# 1 in NM/M 9.8 OR higher, is "THE" Valiant book to own, hence its high end price, and the ligitimate (IMO) discrepancy between them and NM+ copies

[ckb]

H1 9.8 is certainly legitimate at 4 figures. No doubt. I think the demand will always be there for this book - it's up to the supply to bring the price down.

Basically, in the end, I just feel the Harbinger# 1 in NM/M 9.8 OR higher, is "THE" Valiant book to own, hence its high end price, and the ligitimate (IMO) discrepancy between them and NM+ copies

[x-omatic]

I also think the printer was aware of the problems during production. That is whay you will find some with 2 staples and some with 3 staples. i think the saw the small tears around the staples and tried to sorrect it by adding the 3rd so that less stress was placed on the paper in those areas.

[soundoftheuniverse]

By the looks of things Harbie 1 9.8's may have lost a tiny bit of ground but are holding firm. TLC just sold one for $750.

WTG Todd!

[400yrs]

Someone hit the BIN on the book an hour after the auction was put up. It may have gone for more without the BIN. One heck of a sale though.

[dino]

By the looks of things Harbie 1 9.8's may have lost a tiny bit of ground but are holding firm. TLC just sold one for $750.

WTG Todd!

was that the 9.8 cgg copy he won and sent to cgc?