why jim did it..

[valiantdude]

i think ultimately he would have more creative control at dark horse. Also, he wouldnt have to integrate characters he didnt create, by people he may or may not like. He may have given Dino the *SQUEE* end of the stick, but he also probably felt the management of Dark Horse would stand up better in the long term. VEI may have lost desire to print comics within a year.. NOw he can take his original concept and redesign it from the ground up.. there will be similarities and new characters..but i bet the essence of the original valiant would be the same..we'll see

[Draco]

i think ultimately he would have more creative control at dark horse. Also, he wouldnt have to integrate characters he didnt create, by people he may or may not like. He may have given Dino the *SQUEE* end of the stick, but he also probably felt the management of Dark Horse would stand up better in the long term. VEI may have lost desire to print comics within a year.. NOw he can take his original concept and redesign it from the ground up.. there will be similarities and new characters..but i bet the essence of the original valiant would be the same..we'll see

I think it will be interesting to see where he goes with this for sure, but will he be looking to put out something with a similar feel to his Valiant stuff and ?
I would have thought the whole new start would allow him to go in a completely different direction than previously.

If New universe was ahead of its time and the second attempt in (pre Unity) vh1 was considered by many to be some of the best comics of the last 30+ years, then maybe he will want to carry on with his formula.
However under an established publisher who isn't under the thumb of investors and one who he has a great relationship with, it's Possible that with complete free reign to do as he sees fit, he may surprise us with what's in store.

[leonmallett]

I suspect Jim Shooter's move from VEI to Dark Horse may not have been on purely creative grounds, but that as valiantdude suggests that he may have seen greater longevity at one than at the other. I doubt the decision is to try to repeat himself, JS has shown an ability to tread familiar ground in different ways.

I suspect that there may be a lot of other factors at play as well in his decision. We don't know how good or otherwise the working relationship with VEI was since neither party has commented on it publicly. We don't know how joined up the vision of VEI and JS going forwards was, in terms of VEI as a whole and the comic books (which we still haven't seen of course) in particular.

Ultimately I think JS would not have made an impulsive decision, especially as his association (if not employment per se, depending on how we interpret the publicly posted 'facts' of said involvement) with VEI was for 8 months, plenty of time to reach a decision about his own future if he had doubts, and arguably time also for VEI to allay those doubts - that is if Jim Shooter gave them the opportunity to try to do so, which we just don't know if he did or did not.

The fact is that the situation looks a mess in hindsight, and from what little we may know, or think we may know, neither party looks especially positive as a consequence. Taking that into account, since only one party is visibly on target to produce some comic books, then the benefit of the doubt for me errs slightly towards JS since the politics of the situation don't matter for me, just being able to read something superheroic outisde of DC and Marvel does, preferably with characters I have a fondness for.

[Daniel Jackson]

Well, since it looks like the lawsuit business is over, maybe Jim will tell everyone his side of the story now and why he made the move to DH.

[Cyberstrike]

Well, since it looks like the lawsuit business is over, maybe Jim will tell everyone his side of the story now and why he made the move to DH.

It is possible that both parties might (key word here is MIGHT) have signed non-disclosure agreements as part of the agreement to drop or settle the case.

IF that is the case we may never know.

[Crow331]

Well the lawsuit business may be over for now, I hope that Jim comes up some completely new ideas than what he was planning over at VEI because if anything from this new DH universe is the same or similar to the universe that Jim started to create in the short months he was at VEI, we could see the lawsuit again. Anything he created while working for them would be their intellectual property

[dhudson1]

Well the lawsuit business may be over for now, I hope that Jim comes up some completely new ideas than what he was planning over at VEI because if anything from this new DH universe is the same or similar to the universe that Jim started to create in the short months he was at VEI, we could see the lawsuit again. Anything he created while working for them would be their intellectual property

Assuming he was legally working for them and was compensated for such work

[leonmallett]

Well, since it looks like the lawsuit business is over, maybe Jim will tell everyone his side of the story now and why he made the move to DH.

It is possible that both parties might (key word here is MIGHT) have signed non-disclosure agreements as part of the agreement to drop or settle the case.

IF that is the case we may never know.

I have a feeling that whether or not NDA's formed part of the case being dropped, that we may never see any official statement from either side.

[wrunow]

Well, since it looks like the lawsuit business is over, maybe Jim will tell everyone his side of the story now and why he made the move to DH.

It is possible that both parties might (key word here is MIGHT) have signed non-disclosure agreements as part of the agreement to drop or settle the case.

IF that is the case we may never know.

I have a feeling that whether or not NDA's formed part of the case being dropped, that we may never see any official statement from either side.

I don't really have any information about the case being dropped, but, to my knowledge, JS was never officially legally served with the actual lawsuit. Last I knew he had no permanant address at the time the suit was filed and no one knew where he physically resided or was working in the late summer or fall. There were rumors of serving him at the Wizard show in NYC last fall, and that was part of the reason I chose not to attend as I value my friends on both sides of the issue.

My personal opinion is that VEI made their point about the situation publicly with their side of the story and didn't pursue the issue any farther.

Also in my opinion Shooter + Peirce= No deal no matter what.

These are my opinions only as I haven't really discussed this too much with the Dino because of its sensitivity.

[wrunow]

Well the lawsuit business may be over for now, I hope that Jim comes up some completely new ideas than what he was planning over at VEI because if anything from this new DH universe is the same or similar to the universe that Jim started to create in the short months he was at VEI, we could see the lawsuit again. Anything he created while working for them would be their intellectual property

I am sure that Shooter and DH would be very sensitive to not doing anything that would come even close to the work he did for VEI. Neither of these parties are stupid and wouldn't risk such an obvious lawsuit.

[dave]

U guys see the ads for FCBD stuff in Previews????

[leonmallett]

Well the lawsuit business may be over for now, I hope that Jim comes up some completely new ideas than what he was planning over at VEI because if anything from this new DH universe is the same or similar to the universe that Jim started to create in the short months he was at VEI, we could see the lawsuit again. Anything he created while working for them would be their intellectual property

I am sure that Shooter and DH would be very sensitive to not doing anything that would come even close to the work he did for VEI. Neither of these parties are stupid and wouldn't risk such an obvious lawsuit.

I think you are right. They are going to have to stand by their statements and stick to safe ground to steer this one through, and so reverting back to GK stories as the springboard is the only way.

[valiantdude]

as long as shooter brings in the 'seleski' version of solar, or some lawsuit free variation, then thats all you need for a starting point. The whole orig vh1 concept was that the superhero idea was a creation from phil's mind, and that all reality sprung forth from phil's consciousness, as long as they keep that fundamental element, then anything is possible.
If solar reverts to the gold key charachter, its not going to stick.. solar is where the magic was

[maraxusofkeld]

One thing I think that no one has mentioned is the fact that most things come down to a money issue. He was probably offered a considerable amount more from Dark Horse and decided that was going to be his new creative home.

[wrunow]

as long as shooter brings in the 'seleski' version of solar, or some lawsuit free variation, then thats all you need for a starting point. The whole orig *VALIANT (1991-1996)* concept was that the superhero idea was a creation from phil's mind, and that all reality sprung forth from phil's consciousness, as long as they keep that fundamental element, then anything is possible.
If solar reverts to the gold key charachter, its not going to stick.. solar is where the magic was

I would think Shooter will have to do something totally different than has been done before, I don't think you'll see a "Seleski" type Solar. At least I hope not, I am hoping for stories that are a little newer and more interesting.

[vikingspawn]

U guys see the ads for FCBD stuff in Previews????

this one?

[etos45]

I have a feeling that whether or not NDA's formed part of the case being dropped, that we may never see any official statement from either side.

I agree with this and think it's really for the best. I would like to know what really happened one day, but I think this whole lawsuit has done nothing but cause mass negativity for one side or the other and it's best to just let it fade away.

I'm real interested to see what JS does with the Solar and Magnus characters, but I'm not expecting to see the same magic that was VH1. If they're at least good stories, though, I will buy them.

[Daniel Jackson]

I have a feeling that whether or not NDA's formed part of the case being dropped, that we may never see any official statement from either side.

I agree with this and think it's really for the best. I would like to know what really happened one day, but I think this whole lawsuit has done nothing but cause mass negativity for one side or the other and it's best to just let it fade away.

I'm real interested to see what JS does with the Solar and Magnus characters, but I'm not expecting to see the same magic that was *VALIANT (1991-1996)*. If they're at least good stories, though, I will buy them.

I think one of the main things is surrounding Magnus and Solar with other interesting characters like we had in the early Valiant.

[ian_house]

as long as shooter brings in the 'seleski' version of solar, or some lawsuit free variation, then thats all you need for a starting point. The whole orig *VALIANT (1991-1996)* concept was that the superhero idea was a creation from phil's mind, and that all reality sprung forth from phil's consciousness, as long as they keep that fundamental element, then anything is possible.
If solar reverts to the gold key charachter, its not going to stick.. solar is where the magic was

I would think Shooter will have to do something totally different than has been done before, I don't think you'll see a "Seleski" type Solar. At least I hope not, I am hoping for stories that are a little newer and more interesting.

Too right. Why would Shooter want to remake something exactly as he did it before? And it would lead to trouble just making another character who is as close to Phil as valiantdude is proposing.

[superman-prime]

true there, a new concept would be cool

[IanAlexavier]

Jim Shooter IS Solar!

'nuff said!

[dave]

I think one of the main things is surrounding Magnus and Solar with other interesting characters like we had in the early Valiant.

Yep!

[superman-prime]

Jim Shooter has a interview in CB guide i saw at barnes and noble

[wrunow]

i think ultimately he would have more creative control at dark horse. Also, he wouldnt have to integrate characters he didnt create, by people he may or may not like. He may have given Dino the *SQUEE* end of the stick, but he also probably felt the management of Dark Horse would stand up better in the long term. VEI may have lost desire to print comics within a year.. NOw he can take his original concept and redesign it from the ground up.. there will be similarities and new characters..but i bet the essence of the original valiant would be the same..we'll see

Shooter was "EIC" at VEI, he pretty much had full creative control, although I am sure when it came down to hiring writers and pencilers the page rates and such would have to be approved. I also think they were negotiating with Peirce and that was a problem for him, but that is totally conjecture. I have been told by many of the VALIANT alumni that Peirce was specifically given control over VALIANT because Massarsky and the investors felt JS was out of control with his spending. Of coarse, I take this with a grain of salt, as there are many sides to this story.

Also, Shooter was an employee at VEI, but not with DH as they have contracted through his company for his work. I am sure there are incentives in the deal that could make him a lot of money if the books do well.

Personally, I think he left for the money, he knew the GK characters future rights were in play, and who got them very much hinged on his relationships with Western Media or whatever the company is now. There was probably no big payday in his deal at VEI, just a paycheck, so he did the deal with DH behind his employers back. Happens all the time in business I guess.

[Vydas]

i think ultimately he would have more creative control at dark horse. Also, he wouldnt have to integrate characters he didnt create, by people he may or may not like. He may have given Dino the *SQUEE* end of the stick, but he also probably felt the management of Dark Horse would stand up better in the long term. VEI may have lost desire to print comics within a year.. NOw he can take his original concept and redesign it from the ground up.. there will be similarities and new characters..but i bet the essence of the original valiant would be the same..we'll see

Shooter was "EIC" at VEI, he pretty much had full creative control, although I am sure when it came down to hiring writers and pencilers the page rates and such would have to be approved. I also think they were negotiating with Peirce and that was a problem for him, but that is totally conjecture. I have been told by many of the VALIANT alumni that Peirce was specifically given control over VALIANT because Massarsky and the investors felt JS was out of control with his spending. Of coarse, I take this with a grain of salt, as there are many sides to this story.

Also, Shooter was an employee at VEI, but not with DH as they have contracted through his company for his work. I am sure there are incentives in the deal that could make him a lot of money if the books do well.

Personally, I think he left for the money, he knew the GK characters future rights were in play, and who got them very much hinged on his relationships with Western Media or whatever the company is now. There was probably no big payday in his deal at VEI, just a paycheck, so he did the deal with DH behind his employers back. Happens all the time in business I guess.

You are making a number of pretty negative assumptions there, some of which would seem to be false, given the information out there.

Shooter being public and one guy, it seems to have made him an easy target for some fans to blame for the dream crumbling. VEI general incompetence, I would wager, is likely the majority of the explanation.

Basically, I believe the situation became for Shooter that it was time VEI to either sh!t, or get off the pot. They apparently chose the latter.