Shadowman's death

Lynndale · Post by **Lynndale** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:13 pm

Does anyone know how Shadowman was supposed to die in 1999?

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:23 pm

I don't think they said anything concrete other then riding the world of the Darque power. Many have interupted that to mean a final battle between the two. (or maybe that was also mentioned somewhere in the books. My memory is getting sketchy as I'm getting old

)

dellamorte · Post by **dellamorte** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:33 pm

Nothing was officialy said although Bob Hall was nice enough to provide us with a glimpse of what he had planned.

Will · Post by **Will** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:35 pm

Actually, "ridding" is with two "d"s as in: I am ridding the world of body odor. "Riding" is what we do to horses, or small squirels.

--Whetteon's Mom

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:14 pm

Will wrote:Actually, "ridding" is with two "d"s as in: I am ridding the world of body odor. "Riding" is what we do to horses, or small squirels.

--Whetteon's Mom

He is actually just using his famous "whetspeak" again.

Redtrax · Post by **Redtrax** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:09 am

whetteon wrote:I don't think they said anything concrete other then riding the world of the Darque power. Many have interupted that to mean a final battle between the two. (or maybe that was also mentioned somewhere in the books. My memory is getting sketchy as I'm getting old )

Must have something to do with the deformed Spideyhead

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:25 am

dellamorte wrote:Nothing was officialy said although Bob Hall was nice enough to provide us with a glimpse of what he had planned.

Cool drawing, if only i could figure out what was going on in it

. I remember someone posting an email from Bob Hall saying would've liked to resurrect Jack after 9/9/99 but the initial attempt at this would result in Jack just being a zombie and they'ld have to go on a quest to get his soul and Darque would try to stop them. Hall said it would've only happened if Layton let him which he sounded dubious about. Just picturing a zombie Jack standing there all day and then still getting the urge to go out and %*$# up criminals at night ("Must..rid...night...of...demons") brings a smile to my face. Those poor crooks in New Orleans at the turn of the millenium

.

It's curious the 9/9/99 death of Shooter's version of Shadowman mentioned in the U2000 #1 and it's prequels (Jack gets eaten alive by a gaint aligator while trying to get back to the Lost Land to find Elya) also has him living long past his "death" in the future with Elya (he lives to the ripe old age of 120!).

Both nice twists on one of the most inevitable deathes in comics.

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Sun May 01, 2005 2:33 pm

I'm bumping this thread just to remind people that are argueing Jack and Darque are dead in VH-1 continuity that they might not have taken the most obvious and predictable path on this (though we'll never know) and how much fun that could be. If anyone can find the post on Hall's email about resurrecting Jack, please post it. It was on a board or group somewhere (could've even been on here). I'ld love to see the exact wording again. I think he mentions Darque in passing, indicating Darque survived (as opposed to being a ghost or something).

Hall's drawing is expecially interesting. Obviously Jack's "healing factor" must stop working at some point. And it doesn't look like a fight so much as an exchange of of energies (they're both in mutual pain with niether clearly "blasting" the other). Could Darque and Jack have had to join forces to rid the world of the Darque power? Wouldn't that have been a twist?

Ofcourse a reboot makes this a moot point but even with a new Valiant Universe it would be majorly fun if they got some of the old guys back together for a miniseries on the 9/9/99 event.

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Sun May 01, 2005 6:55 pm

Two quick things.

1) How positive are we that Shadowman died? I mean, I know the heroes said he died, but could they be mistaken?

2) Could "Shadowman" have died, but Jack have survived? IE, what made him Shadowman was removed from his body?

Chris

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Sun May 01, 2005 7:43 pm

cjv wrote:Two quick things.

1) How positive are we that Shadowman died? I mean, I know the heroes said he died, but could they be mistaken?

2) Could "Shadowman" have died, but Jack have survived? IE, what made him Shadowman was removed from his body?

Chris

We are talking Valiant here, NOT DC...

In Valiant dead is dead...

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Sun May 01, 2005 9:34 pm

That's all well and good. And yet if someone things someone else is dead, it still doesn't automatically mean they are.

Chris

dellamorte · Post by **dellamorte** » Sun May 01, 2005 10:30 pm

In chatting with Bob while working on the VcVSS book he told me a lot of his ideas regarding Jacks death. I don't want to say too much because I would really like to see this story told someday but I will say this Jacks death ties into the end of issue #43.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Sun May 01, 2005 10:52 pm

cjv wrote:That's all well and good. And yet if someone things someone else is dead, it still doesn't automatically mean they are.

Chris

In VALIANT's case, there's no such thing as iffy death's.

People in the future had very good records about these things (i.e. the Archies), and we have a lot of sources that confirm that Jack died in 99.

We have Elya telling Jack during Unity and Rockland narrating it in Rai 0.

It be one thing is Elya had said "Shadowman died in 99" but she didn't, she said that Jack Boniface did.

Virgule · Post by **Virgule** » Mon May 02, 2005 2:53 am

HAHA, let it be know that around chaods effect we had A shadowman who got rid of the dark power...

But the contradiction also come from the S vol 1 N° 12 where jack cheats death 'cos of that knowledge...or maybe a real good placebo hein?

V,

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Mon May 02, 2005 9:46 am

Virgule wrote:HAHA, let it be know that around chaods effect we had A shadowman who got rid of the dark power...

But the contradiction also come from the S vol 1 N° 12 where jack cheats death 'cos of that knowledge...or maybe a real good placebo hein?

V,

Someone once pointed out that necromantic energy and darque power aren't necessarily the same thing.

The energy from Chaos Effect was necromantic in nature (i.e. death energy, possibly from a tremendous source, one grander than one universe).

Now, Darque was empowered by the energy from the universe Solar destroyed, so he is empowered by Necromantic energy, but I believe that Darque can alter that energy and turn it into Darque power, his body acts like a filter of some kind.

Kindda like an electric heater can turn electric energy into heat energy, a flashlight can turn electric energy from batteries into light energy, giant fans can turn wind energy into electric energy, etc, etc.

myron · Post by **myron** » Mon May 02, 2005 10:31 am

ManofTheAtom wrote:
Virgule wrote:HAHA, let it be know that around chaods effect we had A shadowman who got rid of the dark power...

But the contradiction also come from the S vol 1 N° 12 where jack cheats death 'cos of that knowledge...or maybe a real good placebo hein?

V,
Someone once pointed out that necromantic energy and darque power aren't necessarily the same thing.

The energy from Chaos Effect was necromantic in nature (i.e. death energy, possibly from a tremendous source, one grander than one universe).

Now, Darque was empowered by the energy from the universe Solar destroyed, so he is empowered by Necromantic energy, but I believe that Darque can alter that energy and turn it into Darque power, his body acts like a filter of some kind.

Kindda like an electric heater can turn electric energy into heat energy, a flashlight can turn electric energy from batteries into light energy, giant fans can turn wind energy into electric energy, etc, etc.

I believe the darque power was all the left over energy from the deaths caused by the first solar destroying his universe...to bad bloodofheroes hasn't been around for a while...he had some good explanations for this stuff..

Virgule · Post by **Virgule** » Mon May 02, 2005 11:45 am

indeed the necromantic energy comes from the destruction of the first universe by Solar, and indeed max the shadowman got the world rid of darque.... user of the darque power... but not the power itself....in that case well it seems to match...

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Mon May 02, 2005 4:05 pm

There isn't much to explain about the "Darque power". The comics make vague, brief, general references to it being necromatic energy. The only thing that was ever specifically said about it was in VH-1's Darque Passages, which said it was the necromatic energy left over from the death of Solar's world and that Darque's goal is to get access to it so he can be God (I assume that's what was in the "Unity" portal in the swamp, but I think I'm just inferring that).

Do we know Jack died on Sept 9th 1999? Yes, Elya said he died a horrible grisely death on that date. The doesn't mean you can't put a twist on it as Shooter did in Unity 2000 where Jack got better after that "horrible, grisly death".

And ofcourse the version of Rai 0 that was published was pretty vague too. It said Shadowman died ridding the world of the Darque power. Not what happened afterwards or what happened to Master Darque. Here's a refresher:

http://www.valiantcomics.com/valiant/im ... /r0-08.jpg

TDarke · Post by **TDarke** » Wed May 04, 2005 3:24 pm

I always envisioned a pretty significantly bloody battle between Master Darque and Jack Boniface in the bayou directly before the tree leading to the Lost Land, as it always seemed to be Darque's goal to open the portal to Unreality. Almost a bit of a throwback to Shadowman #12, which was an incredible issue.

Man I miss Bob Hall on Shadowman. Can anyone divulge what the story was with Shadowman #43, why the series was cancelled, and what was supposed to happen?

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Wed May 04, 2005 3:58 pm

TDarke wrote:I always envisioned a pretty significantly bloody battle between Master Darque and Jack Boniface in the bayou directly before the tree leading to the Lost Land, as it always seemed to be Darque's goal to open the portal to Unreality. Almost a bit of a throwback to Shadowman #12, which was an incredible issue.

Man I miss Bob Hall on Shadowman. Can anyone divulge what the story was with Shadowman #43, why the series was cancelled, and what was supposed to happen?

The cops figured out Jack was Shadowman, arrested him (I think it took the whole police force

), and put him on trail. Meanwhile Sandria releases her brother from Max St. James (Darque was killing him from the inside). Darque floats around without a body for the rest of the series. The trail ended with Max bursting in and Shadowman taking over Jack. It ended in such chaos a mistrail is declared but Jack runs away and climbs a tall building with all New Orleans watching. He wants to test fate by jumping off the building when the sun rises (you've got to understand Jack's lost control of ever aspect of his life at this moment, he's tired of every choice being taken out of his hands and having his future already writen). In the final panel he jumps at sunrise and it leaves him in mid-air.

The series, like all the others at the time, was suffering from plummeting sales. Bob Hall also expressed he didn't appreciate some of the editorial commands he was getting either (Layton wanted Jack to be "blacker" he said). The picture in this thread and the email I mentioned earlier in the thread are the only hints I've seen of what could've happened.

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:42 pm

Flagrant bump of a good thread - and now maybe BOH can shed some light.

-slym

magnusr · Post by **magnusr** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:34 am

slym2none wrote:Flagrant bump of a good thread - and now maybe BOH can shed some light.

-slym

Yeah, we should try to get him back here.

/Magnus

tarheelmarine · Post by **tarheelmarine** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:12 am

magnusr wrote:
slym2none wrote:Flagrant bump of a good thread - and now maybe BOH can shed some light.

-slym
Yeah, we should try to get him back here.

/Magnus

Indeed.