Discuss Hard To Find Or Currently Hot Comics Of Any Era

iggy101us · Post by **iggy101us** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:53 am

400yrs wrote:The 648-650 set of 2nds is selling for about $30 a set. You should still be able to find these in shops. I don't think this one is going to end up being quite as hard to find as the 638, but it's going to be much rarer than the first prints. The first prints are selling pretty well too...... above cover which is good for a modern. People seem to be liking Big Time so far.

I sold a lot of ASM 648 (x2), 649, 652 all 2nd prints for $25 on eBay about 2 weeks ago.

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:55 am

I've been torn lately about selling off a dupe of my TWD #1 and I'm thinking that I should not do it. Here is why:

An observation that I've been pondering for some time now about The Walking Dead #1 - At all the cons I've been to, I've seen many, many Amazing Spider-Man 1s, Amazing Fantasy 15s, X-Men 1s, etc. Usually several copies at each show. HOWEVER, I've honestly NEVER seen a copy of The Walking Dead #1 at a con.

So I ask myself, "Why?"

The reasons could be:
1. Scarcity - Is it possible that there are really less TWD 1s out there than existing copies of SA keys?
2. Liquidity - Are silver age keys that much more liquid than TWD #1 that sellers wouldn't bother buying TWD #1s?
3. Collection retention - Are TWDs staying in personal collections while silver age keys are often held by and traded with dealers?

Answers I come up with:
1. Yes, TWD #1s at 7K-ish copies probably are more limited than existing silver age keys.
2. No. I see Silver Age keys relisted many times on ebay without being sold while copies of TWD #1 always move.
3. Yes. Dealers tend to hang on to copies of those big dollar books and not sell them until they move. TWDs seem more likely to stay in personal collections since they aren't showing up at cons.

So, if my thoughts are wrong about the supply of TWDs being lower than Silver Age keys, I was thinking that I might see a ton more copies of TWD #1 listed on ebay than some silver age keys. To my surprise, I was wrong:

TWD #1 - 21 copies
Amazing Spider-Man #1 - 37 copies
Amazing Fantasy #15 - 25 copies

So I'm still thinking that TWD #1 are in less supply and are staying in permanent (at least for now) collections moreso than silver age keys (proportionately speaking at least).

Trying to think of comparable books:

Comparable books to TWD #1 would be Albedo #2 and TNMT #1. Does anyone have the print run numbers on these?

I've seen both of those at cons. TNMT #1s moreso than Albedo 2s, but still, I've seen them unlike TWD #1s.

There are only 3 TMNT 1s on ebay and 1 Albedo 2.

I'd like to know the print runs on these. I'm pretty sure the Albedo 2 was around 600, but the market for that book has to be smaller than TWD #1. TMNT, I have no idea on the print run, but I'd imagine the market would be smaller for that book as well.

All of this kind of leads me to think I should sell off my dupes of #2-10 and buy another copy of #1 instead of selling off a #1.

sanman · Post by **sanman** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:35 pm

400yrs wrote: I'd like to know the print runs on these. I'm pretty sure the Albedo 2 was around 600, but the market for that book has to be smaller than TWD #1. TMNT, I have no idea on the print run, but I'd imagine the market would be smaller for that book as well.

According to the TMNT website:

Kevin had just gotten a $500 income tax refund check, so the artists decided to self-publish the comic book. They borrowed an additional $700 from Kevin's uncle, Quentin Eastman, and used the money to print 3,000 black and white copies of the first issue of the TMNT.

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/origin/origin.htm

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:22 pm

Thanks. That number sounds familiar. So it's about half the size of TWD #1.

However, over the long term, I think there's going to be and remain much more of a market for TWD. It's something that appeals to nearly all ages. Whereas TMNT appeals mainly to kids, nostalgic adults and collectors.

The comic itself, I don't think has drawn in many non-comic readers / collectors to buy a copy of #1. TWD #1 has done that.

The Spider · Post by **The Spider** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:24 pm

400yrs wrote:I'd like to know the print runs on these. I'm pretty sure the Albedo 2 was around 600, but the market for that book has to be smaller than TWD #1. TMNT, I have no idea on the print run, but I'd imagine the market would be smaller for that book as well.

According to http://www.usagiyojimbo.com/casl/comics ... bedo2.html

...Albedo #2 is around 2000 copies.
And as sanman mentioned above, TMNT #1 is 3000 copies.
Walking Dead #1 is 7266 according to ICV2.

sanman · Post by **sanman** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:52 pm

I know the art and story are highly regarded, but I just don’t see Walking Dead having any real staying power 20+ years from now. The problem for me is that I don’t believe that WD is truly unique or that the characters have the ability to transcend the comic itself.

In contrast, with Viacom owning the TMNT, I think the boys will remain much more culturally significant—not to mention that TMNT #1 has a much smaller print run than WD #1. I think in 20 years one would do well finding a copy of TMNT #1 under $1,000 while I doubt WD #1 will hold past $50—maybe $100 but not much more, IMHO.

Doorman · Post by **Doorman** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:24 pm

sanman wrote:In contrast, with Viacom owning the TMNT, I think the boys will remain much more culturally significant—not to mention that TMNT #1 has a much smaller print run than WD #1. I think in 20 years one would do well finding a copy of TMNT #1 under $1,000

I agree, I think TMNT will continue to remain in the cultural mindset for years to come. Nickelodeon seems to think so, too - especially since they shelled* out $60M for the characters.

*you're welcome

maraxusofkeld · Post by **maraxusofkeld** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:57 pm

400yrs wrote:I've been torn lately about selling off a dupe of my TWD #1 and I'm thinking that I should not do it. Here is why:

An observation that I've been pondering for some time now about The Walking Dead #1 - At all the cons I've been to, I've seen many, many Amazing Spider-Man 1s, Amazing Fantasy 15s, X-Men 1s, etc. Usually several copies at each show. HOWEVER, I've honestly NEVER seen a copy of The Walking Dead #1 at a con.

So I ask myself, "Why?"

The reasons could be:
1. Scarcity - Is it possible that there are really less TWD 1s out there than existing copies of SA keys?
2. Liquidity - Are silver age keys that much more liquid than TWD #1 that sellers wouldn't bother buying TWD #1s?
3. Collection retention - Are TWDs staying in personal collections while silver age keys are often held by and traded with dealers?

Answers I come up with:
1. Yes, TWD #1s at 7K-ish copies probably are more limited than existing silver age keys.
2. No. I see Silver Age keys relisted many times on ebay without being sold while copies of TWD #1 always move.
3. Yes. Dealers tend to hang on to copies of those big dollar books and not sell them until they move. TWDs seem more likely to stay in personal collections since they aren't showing up at cons.

So, if my thoughts are wrong about the supply of TWDs being lower than Silver Age keys, I was thinking that I might see a ton more copies of TWD #1 listed on ebay than some silver age keys. To my surprise, I was wrong:

TWD #1 - 21 copies
Amazing Spider-Man #1 - 37 copies
Amazing Fantasy #15 - 25 copies

So I'm still thinking that TWD #1 are in less supply and are staying in permanent (at least for now) collections moreso than silver age keys (proportionately speaking at least).

Trying to think of comparable books:

Comparable books to TWD #1 would be Albedo #2 and TNMT #1. Does anyone have the print run numbers on these?

I've seen both of those at cons. TNMT #1s moreso than Albedo 2s, but still, I've seen them unlike TWD #1s.

There are only 3 TMNT 1s on ebay and 1 Albedo 2.

I'd like to know the print runs on these. I'm pretty sure the Albedo 2 was around 600, but the market for that book has to be smaller than TWD #1. TMNT, I have no idea on the print run, but I'd imagine the market would be smaller for that book as well.

All of this kind of leads me to think I should sell off my dupes of #2-10 and buy another copy of #1 instead of selling off a #1.

I dont disagree with any of this, but most dealers at cons, at least the ones I've been to, do not seem to have any interest beyond bronze age books.

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:54 pm

sanman wrote:I know the art and story are highly regarded, but I just don’t see Walking Dead having any real staying power 20+ years from now. The problem for me is that I don’t believe that WD is truly unique or that the characters have the ability to transcend the comic itself.

In contrast, with Viacom owning the TMNT, I think the boys will remain much more culturally significant—not to mention that TMNT #1 has a much smaller print run than WD #1. I think in 20 years one would do well finding a copy of TMNT #1 under $1,000 while I doubt WD #1 will hold past $50—maybe $100 but not much more, IMHO.

Good points to consider.

Regarding the unique-ness, the same could be said for Turtles. In relation to comic books, I'd argue that the TWD concept is more unique than TMNT.

I do think you bring up a good point in regards to staying power and the characters not being able to transcend the comic. If the book isn't around in 20 years, you may be right. TMNT can go on forever in some format while TWD pretty much has to be written by one guy. Rick and Carl aren't going to become cultural phenomena outside of comics on their own either. Good points there.

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:55 pm

maraxusofkeld wrote: I dont disagree with any of this, but most dealers at cons, at least the ones I've been to, do not seem to have any interest beyond bronze age books.

True.

tmcneil82 · Post by **tmcneil82** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:17 pm

I think another thing to consider is that the SA keys have peeked in price, more or less. Not saying that there won't be slight variations due to movies, major events in comics, etc, its just that they seem to have that stabilized price range they tend to fall back into. While Walking Dead has been steadily on the up an up. I think this aspect is making a lot of people hang on to it. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of those dealers had many copies of this book, just waiting for it to stop rising.

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:07 am

tmcneil82 wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of those dealers had many copies of this book, just waiting for it to stop rising.

Good point. But moreso than con dealers, I think it may be the regular collectors that may be holding on to multiples (like me).

sanman · Post by **sanman** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:10 am

400yrs wrote:
sanman wrote:I know the art and story are highly regarded, but I just don’t see Walking Dead having any real staying power 20+ years from now. The problem for me is that I don’t believe that WD is truly unique or that the characters have the ability to transcend the comic itself.

In contrast, with Viacom owning the TMNT, I think the boys will remain much more culturally significant—not to mention that TMNT #1 has a much smaller print run than WD #1. I think in 20 years one would do well finding a copy of TMNT #1 under $1,000 while I doubt WD #1 will hold past $50—maybe $100 but not much more, IMHO.
Good points to consider.

Regarding the unique-ness, the same could be said for Turtles. In relation to comic books, I'd argue that the TWD concept is more unique than TMNT.

I do think you bring up a good point in regards to staying power and the characters not being able to transcend the comic. If the book isn't around in 20 years, you may be right. TMNT can go on forever in some format while TWD pretty much has to be written by one guy. Rick and Carl aren't going to become cultural phenomena outside of comics on their own either. Good points there.

Indeed, TMNT was originally a parody of the mutant, ninja, teen superhero crazes with a bit of Frank Miller thrown in—certainly anamorphic animals aren’t anything new. But the average person doesn’t think about any of that nor is there something similar for them to compare the TMNT to.

You’re entitled to your opinion—much of which I see you POV—but by “unique” I meant a property that stands out for the general consumer.

On the surface, at least, Walking Dead is just another take on the zombie mythology. When popular culture switches to another horror genre, how is WD or any of the characters going to stand out?

I’m not saying that there won’t be a niche fan base, but a more universal fan interest will be required for longevity and greater mass appeal.

ian_house · Post by **ian_house** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:56 am

I'm with Sanman. I don't see how TWD is that original, and thats not a slight against the title, its an incredibly good portrayal of the Romero style zombie movies into the world of comics. Also not saying thats the only influence or feel of the book.

jridd28 · Post by **jridd28** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:41 pm

sanman wrote:I know the art and story are highly regarded, but I just don’t see Walking Dead having any real staying power 20+ years from now. The problem for me is that I don’t believe that WD is truly unique or that the characters have the ability to transcend the comic itself.

In contrast, with Viacom owning the TMNT, I think the boys will remain much more culturally significant—not to mention that TMNT #1 has a much smaller print run than WD #1. I think in 20 years one would do well finding a copy of TMNT #1 under $1,000 while I doubt WD #1 will hold past $50—maybe $100 but not much more, IMHO.

Didnt the TWD characters transcend the comic into a pretty decent tv show? TMNT had what....... ..Vanilla Ice? J/k!!!

I think TWD is more adult oriented while TMNT conitinues to get recycled every couple of years as newer generations of children grow up to enjoy it. It is true that TMNT is popular with kids as it was when as was a kid but its ceiling of popularity has been reached. Its pretty much the same concept it was 25yrs ago. Also, TWD is very similar to other Zombie movies but the actual story has never been told sooo violently and uncensored

I think what will separate the two will be this, IMHO, TMNT popularity really isnt getting much bigger mainstream but TWD mainstream success has just begun. I believe the TMNT Ceiling has been reached and I dont think TWD is as well known as TMNT, but its Ceiling, at this point, is far from being reached! To each his own as I am no expert.

sanman · Post by **sanman** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:11 pm

All excellent points. Certainly most of the live action TMNT films were garbage except for the first one. In contrast, TWD television program has been well received. I’d also agree that as the program continues to do well with viewers, the comics will only be more in demand.

But I’d argue that the bottom will eventually drop out on TWD once folks get tired of the program, the comics, and/or the present renewed interest in zombies. Back issues and reruns will not sustain enough popularity for the early run books to demand premium prices 20 years from now, IMHO.

However, I also agree that right now the Turtles aren’t getting any bigger or any closer to recapturing their ‘90s glory. But remember that things get renewed in 20 year cycles. The kids who grew up on the original cartoon and Playmates figures are now entering the professional workforce. Under the right conditions demand for TMNT #1 could explode again as these kids begin reliving their childhoods and buying TMNT swag for their kids.

Additionally, like so many of our iconic characters such as Batman, Spiderman, 007, etc., as long as the general TMNT concept gets recycled and/or repackaged I think there will be interest in the original Mirage books.

In contrast, TWD is the recycled and/or repackaged zombie for this decade. The next time zombies become popular it will be something other than TWD—just like TWD has built on and supassed Romero’s zombies today.

I’m not saying that if you buy a NM TMNT #1 now it will exponentially increase in value 20 years from now. But of the two comics I see TMNT #1 at least maintaining higher collector demand in the long term.

caxiotis · Post by **caxiotis** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:11 pm

Looking on ebay and Image's "Butcher Baker The Righteous Maker" that came out last week is going for between $15 - $20.

superman-prime · Post by **superman-prime** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:50 pm

casey jones

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:10 pm

caxiotis wrote:Looking on ebay and Image's "Butcher Baker The Righteous Maker" that came out last week is going for between $15 - $20.

Wow, that was fast.

Elveen · Post by **Elveen** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:31 pm

StarBrand wrote:
caxiotis wrote:Looking on ebay and Image's "Butcher Baker The Righteous Maker" that came out last week is going for between $15 - $20.
Wow, that was fast.

I asked 1 place and they were out the first day. They said they had 3 of them.

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:06 pm

I didn't get it because it didn't appeal to me, but based on the premise of the book, it's probably a "flip it quick" book like Skullkickers.

Elveen · Post by **Elveen** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:23 pm

400yrs wrote:I didn't get it because it didn't appeal to me, but based on the premise of the book, it's probably a "flip it quick" book like Skullkickers.

And 27.

I will not go out of my way to hunt one down.

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:27 pm

Elveen wrote:
400yrs wrote:I didn't get it because it didn't appeal to me, but based on the premise of the book, it's probably a "flip it quick" book like Skullkickers.
And 27.

I will not go out of my way to hunt one down.

Same. I only do that if I really like a book.

ian_house · Post by **ian_house** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:59 am

Probably not going to be worth much but the new issue of Brightest Day is pretty important. Reintergration of a pretty major character into the DCU, probably been gone for nearly 20 years.

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:18 am

ian_house wrote:Probably not going to be worth much but the new issue of Brightest Day is pretty important. Reintergration of a pretty major character into the DCU, probably been gone for nearly 20 years.

I like seeing stuff like that in this thread.